Did God Chose you or did you chose God

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As an individual? Yes, God saved His son Adam. But spiritually speaking, it is the carnal, sinful "adamic nature" that will be destroyed within everyone.

Well, thank you for stepping up to the pump on that one! Glad somebody has some sight.

As to what many claim to be 'an Adamic' nature, I'm not fond of blaming Adam whatsoever. There really are other legitimate avenues to observe without trampling Adam in the process, or ourselves for that matter. Or other people for that matter.

IF we take it that it is God Alone who gives us heavenly things, then it might appear that the dispensary is both open and closed. Some will see and some will not.

Why is that do you think?

Even on this matter of Gods choosing, why is it that some see God's choice and some see their choice? Or even more, how is it that some see this matter of choice as a basis of condemnation to each others?

These are the more interesting matters to me. The various 'sights' of these things extend across the spectrum. Liberal to conservative to some thinking only they themselves are saved.

It's actually quite a bizarre showing is it not? And who is to say that the entire spectrum is not in fact FROM GOD Himself?

You and I would probably agree that God could strike any man down in his tracks like He did with Saul on the road to Damascus and the number of 'saved' would increase quite dramatically.

So, why not?

Looking at this "spiritually," there are only two "people" on this Earth - "the first Adam" and "the last Adam." A given person is in one or the other.

And I might see that there is a potential Paul in everyone, currently covered up as Paul was, blinded by the god of this world.

It is not part of the call and parcel to seek all? To share abundantly with all, knowing this to be at a minimum, at least a possibility?

Or do we all sit on our 'received' package and wait for God to strike them with His Blinding Light?

Interesting questions to me.

Again, as a person, of course. But spiritually speaking, Moses not entering the promised land was a parable; a "shadow" of a greater spiritual truth.

I certainly can't say that Moses was not saved, even falling in unbelief.

Nor would I say that for any of those who likewise fell in the desert.

We know for example that NONE of the fathers of faith 'received' in Hebrews, and that more awaits for all of us.

Hebrews 11:39
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Moses typifies "The Law." And the point is that "The Law of Moses" will NOT get you into "the promised land" (salvation). It is rather, only through Christ.

You and I will see differently on the Law, they all being Words of God in Christ.

Jesus told us both that man will live by how many Words of God?

Why then do some see 'death' Words there?

To me all such questions come down to our own subjective funnels and tunnels. So I observe why I see the way I see, how others may see, and it's part of the enjoyment of sharing in general.

s

 

[Eventide]

The LAST ADAM...

Hi Robert Hern,

The pride of man says, 'I chose God,' but to humble man, God informs us that, "I chose you..."

IMO it's the other way around.. it's the pride of men to think that GOD CHOSE ME in light of all the evidence contrary to that very thing..

The scripture you reference is within the context of His Apostles.. and of course He chose them... even Judas, who betrayed Him.

This is why the gospel of God's Son is so vital even for the believer... because it for ever settles this simple question... God chose us IN CHRIST, period.

Election in the first Adam.........0%

Election in the LAST ADAM.....100%

A simple biblical fact... unless you'd like to reprove the simplicity of Romans 5 and specifically Romans 5:18.

 

[Eventide]

Further proof...

I am crucified with Christ and nevertheless I live.. yet NOT I, but CHRIST liveth in me..

Set you affections on the things above, and not on the things on earth.. for YE ARE DEAD and your life is hid IN CHRIST with God.

IF ANY MAN shall come after Me, let him DENY HIMSELF and take up His cross and follow ME.. for if ye shall seek to save YOUR LIFE ye shall lose it and if ye shall save it for ME and the GOSPEL, ye shall SAVE IT..

Should we go on..?

Seriously.. who here is going to suggest that these living and powerful words do not apply to themselves..?

It truly is the pride of men to be led to think that God chose them (even unconditionally for some) in light of these simple biblical truths.

 

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It truly is the pride of men to be led to think that God chose them (even unconditionally for some) in light of these simple biblical truths.

God unquestionably chooses some to see and some to not see in this present life.

Election itself is and has always been a 'at the present time' matter.

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

s

 

[Eventide]

And often those who claim to 'see' are the ones who are blind to the truth, regardless of IT being right before their eyes.

 

[Davies]

Re: The LAST ADAM...

Good morning Eventide,

I can understand your point of view. After all, God chose ME. lol. That is an inflated sense of self. But when we see, by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, our sins, we should clearly understand what we deserve. There is a beautiful passage in Isaiah that would be good to think on. For God to condescend in the manner in which He did should communicate to us who we are and His majesty. It is God who is the giver, and we are humbly to receive by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 61:3

New King James Version (NKJV)

3 To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

- Davies

 

[Eventide]

Re: The LAST ADAM...

Good morning Eventide,

I can understand your point of view. After all, God chose ME.

To be biblically correct Davies, God chose you IN CHRIST.. just like everyone else.. and Eph 1:13 gives us precise detail as to how that happened..

 

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And often those who claim to 'see' are the ones who are blind to the truth, regardless of IT being right before their eyes.

I don't disagree. Didn't the Pharisee's 'claim' to see, yet we can see they were in fact almost entirely blind, at least some of them.

But some were not. Nicodemus, Gamaliel, both saw a little more than the others.

Acts 5:
33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

This was probably the 'teacher' of Saul/Paul as well.

38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Very astute observation.

s

 

[iLOVE]

Let's fact check your post:

Psalm 5:5
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity.

God said he knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb. You see we once walked with God in heaven. God chose you to come into this world. He loved you then and he loves you now.

 

[Hammer]

Jesus addressed the issue of choosing with the Parable of the Marriage Feast which concludes: Many are called, few are chosen.

Everyone is offered the gift of salvation (many are called). But many reject it outright. Of those who accept the gift, God still denies it to them if they're not pleasing to God (few are chosen).

This doesn't really resolve the question. The Jews rejected the invitation to salvation, as shown by them killing God's servants (per the Parable) and His Son. But, did they do this freely? What of God hardening their hearts? Why did the man (in the Parable) show up casually dressed (and so was denied salvation, in spite of accepting the invitation)? Did he have a choice in how he dressed?

 

[smaller]

Jesus addressed the issue of choosing with the Parable of the Marriage Feast which concludes: Many are called, few are chosen.

Everyone is offered the gift of salvation (many are called). But many reject it outright. Of those who accept the gift, God still denies it to them if they're not pleasing to God (few are chosen).

This doesn't really resolve the question. The Jews rejected the invitation to salvation, as shown by them killing God's servants (per the Parable) and His Son. But, did they do this freely? What of God hardening their hearts? Why did the man (in the Parable) show up casually dressed (and so was denied salvation, in spite of accepting the invitation)? Did he have a choice in how he dressed?

Jesus told us ALL, down to the last one of us, HOW people are hardened.

Yet 'few' factor this fact into their understandings, particularly as it may apply to 'our own' limited sights.

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

These are never only questions of us, but also of the unseen powers.

And every one of us also, down to the last person, will deny the above happens to them, and will instead heap up all and only the good things to ourselves and all the bad things on the other people, you know, like THE JEWS.

The Jews were BLINDED. How so? Read and understand Jesus' Word and He shows us ALL 'how' they were blinded and BY WHOM.

That fact will stick in the craw of any who try to observe same.

How many are stolen from???

ALLLLLLL.

How many 'see Perfectly?'

NONE.

Why? See the above.

Simply once seen, but God allows this blinding to continue. That is part of what is and has been going on in the world from day one.

It's not ALL about man. There are JUDGMENTS being played out 'in the earth.' And they will ALL suit His Purposes PERFECTLY.

s

 

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There is an inverse program that is currently running in those who claim to see and in those who don't.

Those who claim to see in fact do not see at all.

And those who claim and understand their blindness do in fact see quite well.

Reverse Spiritual Principle 101. This matter remains hidden from natural eye sight.


In order to claim sight, one must actually claim BLINDNESS in Gods World.

How many blindmen here? I raised my own hand in DARKNESS because I was and still am utterly blind as many of you will attest to...

s

 

[Davies]

Hi iLOVE,

You stated we walked with God in heaven? Would you tell us from what source informed you of this? I wouldn't understand walking with God in heaven from Jeremiah 1:5. Is that passage your verse or is there another source?

- Davies

 

[iLOVE]

Hi iLOVE,

You stated we walked with God in heaven? Would you tell us from what source informed you of this? I wouldn't understand walking with God in heaven from Jeremiah 1:5. Is that passage your verse or is there another source?

- Davies

Our Spirits were once with God in heaven.

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” John 8:56-58

Where was Abraham at the time?

 

[John 8:32]

We are chosen by God, Christ plainly says we did not choose Him...

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

 

[Davies]

iLOVE,

Not in heaven. From the verses you've shared, it would be speculation for me to say Abraham was in heaven before he was borne. In response to those who said Jesus was only so old, Jesus claimed to be God, "I am." Jesus was not talking about where Abraham was, He was stating He, Jesus, existed before Abraham was borne and always existed. It's a great verse to use for the deity of Jesus, the One who was never created.

- Davies

 

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iLOVE,

Not in heaven. From the verses you've shared, it would be speculation for me to say Abraham was in heaven before he was borne. In response to those who said Jesus was only so old, Jesus claimed to be God, "I am." Jesus was not talking about where Abraham was, He was stating He, Jesus, existed before Abraham was borne and always existed. It's a great verse to use for the deity of Jesus, the One who was never created.

- Davies

All the sons of God were with Him since before the world was made and The Corner Stone was SET:

Job 38:
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

God asked Job in the form of a question. He then provides the answer.

John saw no differently:

1 John 2:
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.

The sons of God were 'in God' from the beginning, in His Loins, spiritually speaking, no different than Levi being 'in the loins' of Abraham in the fleshly sense of understanding.

Our 'life' was hid in Christ before we arrived.

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

I'd say that the hiding was exceptionally effective.

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

He has made us 'priests' and 'kings.' Kings of honor, in honor, seek out the eternal things of God, that He has hidden in the earth.

There are also 'kings and princes of the earth' who hold these things, that they not be found.

Hab. 1:
12 Art thou not from everlasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O Lord, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.

God does not raise 'spoiled brats.' We are all honed and chastised here in real life with real suffering and misery.

It is an honor, our honor, to spend our temporal lives to assist, to lend, to spend, to help, to clothe, to visit, to water, to feed every last person here in their suffering and misery as well. And in this we have ALL failed miserably while we 'wallow' in our 'salvation' and 'riches.'

We're 'saved' while the people all around us suffer interminably.

s

 

[Eventide]

iLOVE,

Not in heaven. From the verses you've shared, it would be speculation for me to say Abraham was in heaven before he was borne. In response to those who said Jesus was only so old, Jesus claimed to be God, "I am." Jesus was not talking about where Abraham was, He was stating He, Jesus, existed before Abraham was borne and always existed. It's a great verse to use for the deity of Jesus, the One who was never created.

- Davies

Amen to this and to the eternal glory of our Lord Jesus Christ..

It's absolutely amazing what people will believe these days... even unto thinking that they're like GOD and that they existed in heaven before they were born through their parents..

 

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Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Deut. 14:
1 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
2 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 6:9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Eventide]

No surprises here.. and this explains a lot about you smaller..

The Apostle to the Gentiles makes it perfectly clear the order of things with respect to our bodies, in 1 Cor 15..

The first is from the earth... EARTHY... and then the Spiritual... the LORD from heaven..

But again, this makes it obvious to me why so many think so highly of themselves.. even to believing that they are like God and that they pre-existed in heaven before they were born naturally through their parents..

IT's almost unbelievable.. but I just witnessed it with my own eyes.