Did God Chose you or did you chose God

[smaller]

No surprises here.. and this explains a lot about you smaller..

The Apostle to the Gentiles makes it perfectly clear the order of things with respect to our bodies, in 1 Cor 15..

The first is from the earth... EARTHY... and then the Spiritual... the LORD from heaven..

But again, this makes it obvious to me why so many think so highly of themselves.. even to believing that they are like God and that they pre-existed in heaven before they were born naturally through their parents..

IT's almost unbelievable.. but I just witnessed it with my own eyes.

Gods children come from and are 'of God.'

s

 

[Kaliani]

And isn't it wondrous to say the least that He has mercy upon us all.. and that He isnt far from any one of us...

All glory and praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Last Adam.. in whom there is justification of life.

For the Father loveth the Son and hath given all things into His hand.

This is just a beautiful post. I am printing this.

Thank you Eventide. (By the way, I really love your name. It sounds so poetic.)

 

[Eventide]

This is just a beautiful post. I am printing this.

Thank you Eventide. (By the way, I really love your name. It sounds so poetic.)

THANK YOU Kaliani ! I truly appreciate it.

My name comes from the story of Rebekah (a picture of the church of God) in Genesis.. when she met Isaac, her husband whom she traveled so far to be with.. and they met at the eventide..

Thanks again and God bless !

 

[Davies]

smaller,
I still wouldn't form a doctrine to say were were with God before we were born, based on the Scriptures provided. Jesus stated we needed to be born again. If we are born of God here, then I don't see that fitting with how we were with God in the beginning other than in God's eternal perspective. When God rhetorically asked Job, 'Where wast thou...,' I think the answer understood was God did not see Job at the laying of the foundation of the earth. This isn't even a tertiary issue, so, I don't mind if we differ on this.

Are you ok with that iLOVE? I hope so.

I could have responded with this line: a, a, a, a...I know what you're thinking punk. 'Did he fire six shots or only five.' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a .45 magnum, the most powerful hand gun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you could ask yourself a question, 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do you Punk. (Dirty Harry Theology) lol

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Amen to this and to the eternal glory of our Lord Jesus Christ..

It's absolutely amazing what people will believe these days... even unto thinking that they're like GOD and that they existed in heaven before they were born through their parents..

Eventide,

Who knows how many false understanding we have? We will certainly be humbled when see Jesus as we look back and see, as God does, where we came from; but we will praise God all the more as we see how far He brought us!
1 Corinthians 13:12

New King James Version (NKJV)

12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

- Davies

 

[Eventide]

Eventide,

Who knows how many false understanding we have? We will certainly be humbled when see Jesus as we look back and see, as God does, where we came from; but we will praise God all the more as we see how far He brought us!
1 Corinthians 13:12

New King James Version (NKJV)

12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

- Davies

It's practically inevitable when the focus becomes us rather than The Lord Jesus Christ... For example, the topic of this thread..

The bottom line here is people want to hear God CHOSE ME.. And yet the truth of scripture is clearly that all in the first Adam are under the same condemnation and that death has passed upon all men.. And that all men may be justified freely in the last Adam, our Lord Jesus Christ.

It's as if the truth of scripture doesn't matter one single bit anymore.. Nope.. I'm chosen by God along with His infinitely glorious Son, regardless of the enormous biblical evidence against that.

No doubt we see dimly now, although that's certainly not a license to come up with whatever we wish to hear..

 

[smaller]

smaller,
I still wouldn't form a doctrine to say were were with God before we were born, based on the Scriptures provided. Jesus stated we needed to be born again.

There is no question to me that the 'life' we have is from God. That's about the extent of it.

If someone doesn't know or believe it it wouldn't matter to me. They don't understand what is in them and Who Life is from.

If we are born of God here, then I don't see that fitting with how we were with God in the beginning other than in God's eternal perspective.

Eternal life is a One Way Street. We do not 'con'jure same up on our own, create ourselves 'eternal' or make ourselves worthy of eternity. The LIFE we have comes from Him. Jesus said He is our Father. What you have of Him as His Child comes from Him and was always with Him and In Him.

When God rhetorically asked Job, 'Where wast thou...,' I think the answer understood was God did not see Job at the laying of the foundation of the earth. This isn't even a tertiary issue, so, I don't mind if we differ on this.

Some of the more interesting observations in the text are put forth that way for contemplations. "What if" is another preamble to such matters.

s

 

[Davies]

No doubt we see dimly now, although that's certainly not a license to come up with whatever we wish to hear..

Good morning Eventide,

This is an excellent point. Theology does matter. Certainly there is room for disagreement, but there are essentials of the faith we can't disagree on if we are to call ourselves Christians. This is where Satan would confuse the matter, and when we debate such things, we usually end up in the flesh and sin. Now, if we had a disagreement on what we think is essential, the only thing we can do is read our Bibles, pray, and show a good witness. I'm thinking that only by the contentment that comes from the cross, can we keep from being frustrated, and be significantly more patient with one another. After all, we were no different then the pagans, murderers, adulterers, fornicators, liars, idolaters. We might consider ourselves worse sinners than the rest of the world because we often fail to listen to Jesus and sin with the knowledge of the Gospel... ashes. We have nothing to offer God when we come to Him, and He promises His own inheritance to us, for what, putting our faith and trust in Him... beauty!

- Davies

 

[Eventide]

Good morning Eventide,

This is an excellent point. Theology does matter. Certainly there is room for disagreement, but there are essentials of the faith we can't disagree on if we are to call ourselves Christians.

Good morning (afternoon where I am) to you as well.

We can call ourselves Christians 'til the cows come home although that does not mandate that we actually are Christians and in Christ.. because a person is either born again by the miraculous power of God or they are not.

This is where Satan would confuse the matter, and when we debate such things, we usually end up in the flesh and sin. Now, if we had a disagreement on what we think is essential, the only thing we can do is read our Bibles, pray, and show a good witness.

Amen to that.. and we're to contend for the faith delivered unto us... not passively watch every wind of doctrine which happens to be in the air today as if it doesn't matter one iota.. ? ? There's a serious war going on right now against the rules of the darkness of this world..

I'm thinking that only by the contentment that comes from the cross, can we keep from being frustrated, and be significantly more patient with one another.

How about when point blank scriptural evidence is provided and it's ignored..?

After all, we were no different then the pagans, murderers, adulterers, fornicators, liars, idolaters. We might consider ourselves worse sinners than the rest of the world because we often fail to listen to Jesus and sin with the knowledge of the Gospel... ashes.

Born again Christians should know how infinitely short we all fall in comparison to the Lord Jesus Christ, because we have the truth in us.. unbelievers do not.. so I agree.

We have nothing to offer God when we come to Him, and He promises His own inheritance to us, for what, putting our faith and trust in Him... beauty!

- Davies

And I have not suggested otherwise.. although some here are suggesting that they EXISTED IN HEAVEN prior to being born through our natural parents.. is this something to take passively as if it doesn't matter ?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

do you have a choice the the matter

this is a controversial subject

Man chooses God. If it were solely up to God, then God is culpable for the lost for His failure in choosing them.

Prov 1:29 "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:"

If God chooses for man then it is God's fault they hated knowledge and God's fault they did not have fear of the Lord. Yet the passage goes on to say "They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices." So it is man who either does or does not choose God and so man is responsible for his own choice in either choosing God or not.

Jos 25:24 "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

1 Kings 18:21 "And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him. And the people answered him not a word."

 

[Davies]

Ernest T. Bass,

I know this is off subject, but you should post in the thread Rate the Avatar. You have one that I think is funny. It would be interesting to see what others say about it.

Back to our regularly scheduled program,

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Eventide,

We can say people are wrong in their theology, but considering the media we are using here, we should try to take special precautions when communicating people are wrong, because it's difficult to write tone in our words. How many times have you been misunderstood, here, on the forum? How many times have we been frustrated over people who ignore sound doctrine? If we can do it in the spirit of pointing to Jesus, then touch those wounds that people have. Just don't be surprised if the dog bites your hand (that's a genre of speech, not literal). lol

oh, yea...

Ephesians 1:3-4

New King James Version (NKJV)
Redemption in Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

- Davies

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Ernest T. Bass,

I know this is off subject, but you should post in the thread Rate the Avatar. You have one that I think is funny. It would be interesting to see what others say about it.

Back to our regularly scheduled program,

- Davies

That avatar is a pic of me in deep thought.

 

[Eventide]

Eventide,

We can say people are wrong in their theology, but considering the media we are using here, we should try to take special precautions when communicating people are wrong, because it's difficult to write tone in our words. How many times have you been misunderstood, here, on the forum? How many times have we been frustrated over people who ignore sound doctrine? If we can do it in the spirit of pointing to Jesus, then touch those wounds that people have. Just don't be surprised if the dog bites your hand (that's a genre of speech, not literal). lol

- Davies

Perhaps next time I'll try singing a lullaby of peace.. peace.. lol..

Trust me, you don't want to hear me sing..

 

[Eventide]

That avatar is a pic of me in deep thought.

Now that's hilarious !

 

[Davies]

That avatar is a pic of me in deep thought.

Ernest T. Bass,

How about: 'Spock, it can't be.'
Spock: 'Jim, it is quite logical'

lol

- Davies

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Eventide,

It's as if the truth of scripture doesn't matter one single bit anymore.. Nope.. I'm chosen by God along with His infinitely glorious Son, regardless of the enormous biblical evidence against that.

I agree with you on many things Eventide, especially on the infinite scope of God's love, mercy, and compassion. But exactly what Biblical evidence are you referring to? It is not "boasting" to conclude from Scripture that God is sovereign in all things.......ALL things. As far as Biblical evidence, the Scriptures are clear, as I posted before:

Originally posted by Osgiliath,

• 
  "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU" (John 15:16).
  
  
  [*]"No one is able to come to Me UNLESS the Father Who sent Me DRAWS HIM to come to Me." (John 6:44)
  
  
  [*] "According as HE HAS CHOSEN US in Christ before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
  
  
• "There is none that understands, there is NONE THAT SEEKS after God." (Romans 3:10,11)
  
  
  [*]"For by grace are you saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the Gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8-9).
  
  
  [*]"For God has shut up all in unbelief so that He may show mercy to all." (Romans 11:32)
  
  
  [*]"NO MAN can say Jesus is Lord, BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT." (1 Corinthians 12:3)
  
  
  [*]"It is NOT of him that WILLS or of him that runs, but of GOD that shows mercy." (Romans 9:16)

That is not my "personal" reasoning, or my personal evidence, as you can see. In fact, the Scripture is very counter-intuitive to the natural man, which is why I used to believe in "my own" sovereignty in matters of "my choosing" salvation, which is not Scriptural.


Both the Old and New Testament deals with this concept very clearly:

2 Chronicles 20:6 "And said: 'O Lord God of our fathers, are You not God in heaven, and do You not rule over all the kingdoms of the nations, and in Your hand is there not power and might, so that no one is able to withstand You?'"

Does man have a will that can "withstand God?" Does the New Testament agree with the Old? What does the New Testament teach concerning man's will as it concerns man's destiny? Here is what the New Testament teaches conclusively and consistently:

Romans 9:16 "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."
Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.'
Romans 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens."


God cannot make it any clearer, "It is not of him that wills or runs but it is of God that shows mercy or hardens." Here is another very clear verse of scripture:

Jer 18:4 "And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make."
Jer 18:5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
Jer 18:6 'O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?' says the Lord. 'Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel!'
Jer 18:7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it."


"As clay is in the potter's hand?"



Does clay freely choose whether it will become a bowl, or a plate or a cup?


Everything we do is the result of what God is doing in and through us. It is NOT vice versa:

1 John 4:19 We love him, BECAUSE He first loved us.


Why do we love Him? BECAUSE He first LOVED US!


No one is denying that man makes many choices every day. Mankind does have a will, but it is not free from outside influences. Every choice any man has or ever will make IS A CAUSED CHOICE. And everything that causes those choices originates from Him "of whom are all things."

2 Corinthians 5:18 "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation."

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do ALL these things."


It is not because someone is somehow "special" when they are chosen. They simply are chosen at an earlier time (firstfruits). Everyone will be chosen eventually, in their own order:

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 "For as in Adam ALL DIE, even so in Christ ALL SHALL BE MADE ALIVE. But EACH ONE IN HIS OWN ORDER: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming."


The "chosen" out of the "called" are simply the "FIRSTFRUITS" of the harvest. The rest of the great harvest will be gathered at a later time. They are not damned or lost as many believe. They are simply not "chosen" to be the FIRSTFRUITS of the harvest.



Most Christians do not understand that distinction. They believe this "brief, frail, life on Earth" in the flesh is all the time one has for salvation, but that is not Scriptural, as Paul tells us:

1 Corinthians 15:19 "IF IN THIS LIFE ONLY we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable."


Indeed. Amen Paul. That is where all of Christendom is deceived. They believe that this life in the flesh is all the time a person has for 'hope in Christ' - for salvation. But the truth is that this life in the flesh on Earth is all the time a person has to be chosen as one of the FIRSTFRUITS. Those who are called, but NOT chosen are not chosen as FIRSTFRUITS They will not be part of the first resurrection, and they will not reign with Christ in the age to come:

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."


Who do you think it is that the firstfruits who take part in the first resurrection are reigning over? No one?

Revelation 2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations."



Those who are called, but not chosen to be firstfruits will have to wait, but they are certainly not lost forever. After all, they are the REST OF THE GREAT HARVEST, to which the FIRSTFRUITS were only a sample of that harvest that was gathered earlier:

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming."

 

[Eventide]

Os.. what are your thoughts on post 43 which I wrote..?

Why not simply respond to that rather than ask what the evidence is..?

So start there if you'd like.

 

[Eventide]

And Os.. I wouldn't claim that I choose God because the scriptures do not teach that either.. they teach that we first TRUSTED in Christ, after hearing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, and that after we believed, we were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise..

Furthermore... we're told precisely WHY God hath from the beginning chosen us to salvation.. and that's through sanctification of the SPIRIT and BELIEF of the truth.

Does BELIEVING God make you think that He chose YOU when He flat out states that if you shall seek to save YOUR LIFE that you shall lose it.. and that if ANY MAN shall come after Him, let him DENY HIMSELF and take up his cross, and follow HIM..

How in the world does that make you think that God is choosing YOU and not the Lord Jesus Christ ?

 

[Eventide]

Then, perhaps you can explain Romans 5 and specifically Romans 5:18 ..because evidently many here don't accept that simple biblical truth.