Did Jesus take on the sins of the whole world?

[Randy]

So you are implying that (salvation) here means
Jesus Dying on the cross for the penalty of sin for His chosen, and by this, (that salvation) of Him dying for the Jews that, this will tranfer to the gentiles?

In your words using scripture as reference:
What is his "salvation" that may reach the ends of the earth?

Salvation through the forgiveness of sins. Jesus=>Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross

Has not the gospel message been made plain to all nations?

 

[Hidden In Him]

So I thought I was getting an A+ lol

Near perfect is an A, Lol.

So are you saying that....what I thought you were saying has nothing to do with it. I figure that is not all of the reason.

Confusing sentence again. Try saying it another way.

 

[Deidr]

So what is Saint John 3:16 referring to
New Life or continued life

 

[Hidden In Him]

So what is Saint John 3:16 referring to
New Life or continued life

Both actually.

 

[Randy]

Please explain your interpretation of this last part...tks

It means what it states. What is there to explain?
Not based on your genealogy. Nor the will of man. Nor a husbands will. But born of God=>Christ in us. Born again. Born of the Spirit. Thats who God calls His children.

No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Deidr]

Salvation through the forgiveness of sins. Jesus=>Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all

things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross

Explain
please bare with me I have short term memory..
When Jesus shed His blood on the cross
it was for the Jews correct?

Let me know where I falter in my understanding.

what did He make peace with?

The only thing I can see that meaning is He made peace in the sence that the Jews could not have a relationship with God because by sin they missed His presence. So Jesus made peace taking on the penalty of their sins..which is the death on the cross. So that all man could have access to the father by trusting in His son to change their hearts that the natural biproduct of having a changed heart is the outward show which others could eat from to live.

With that said His blood still works, which...as I go futher in thought believe that He must have resurrected in total bodilly form to present His human blood....just wondering.

That would mean His blood is still alive.

Has not the gospel message been made plain to all nations?

Why you asked

 

[Deidr]

Both actually.

If that is true we can be Justified more than once

 

[Hidden In Him]

If that is true we can be Justified more than once

Depends... Those who completely disavow Him after having once "tasted of the Heavenly gift" i.e. the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, have crucified Him anew before the eyes of the world. I personally don't think there is room for repentance anymore for such types, but most Christians have not even qualified under the terminology used there yet, so I'd say don't worry about it much at this time in history.

 

[Deidr]

Both

Depends... Those who completely disavow Him after having once "tasted of the Heavenly gift" i.e. the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, have crucified Him anew before the eyes of the world. I personally don't think there is room for repentance anymore for such types, but most Christians have not even qualified under the terminology used there yet, so I'd say don't worry about it much at this time in history.

Maybe I've read this passage without thinking of this AS a person who remains.
GOD SEED REMAINS AND ONE CANNOT GO ON TO SIN
SO WHAT IT SEEMS TO ME IS THAT THE WORD IS POWERFUL AND IT WILL NEVER COME BACK VOID ACCOMPLISHING ITS PURPOSE.

I COULD BE THAT TYPE AND NOT KNOW IT..BUT I'd better read it before I'm sure

 

[Hidden In Him]

GOD SEED REMAINS AND ONE CANNOT GO ON TO SIN
SO WHAT IT SEEMS TO ME IS THAT THE WORD IS POWERFUL AND IT WILL NEVER COME BACK VOID ACCOMPLISHING ITS PURPOSE.

God's seed needs to remain. It is our responsibility to see to it that it does.

3 “Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And it happened, as he sowed, that some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds of the air came and devoured it. 5 Some fell on stony ground, where it did not have much earth; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up it was scorched, and because it had no root it withered away. 7 And some seed fell among thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred”...

(His interpretation) 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. 18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.” (Mark 4)

 

[Deidr]

.....

God seed needs to remain. It is our responsibility to see to it that it does.

3 “Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And it happened, as he sowed, that some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds of the air came and devoured it. 5 Some fell on stony ground, where it did not have much earth; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up it was scorched, and because it had no root it withered away. 7 And some seed fell among thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred”...

(His interpretation) 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. 18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.” (Mark 4)

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

In this passage this is what it says.....

 

[Hidden In Him]

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Yes, but you have to read that in context. He was talking about continuing to lead a life of sin, i.e. engage in a lifestyle of sinning and justify it.

This does not cancel out Jesus' teaching in Mark 4. We must receive the word and let it grow within us until it produces 30, 60 or 100 fold. If we allow the cares of this world to choke out what was sown in us, the word will not continue to abide and grow, but will instead wither away just like the parable suggests.

 

[Tenchi]

I'm a Baptist; So if I could have some Baptist answers I'd appreciate it.

So my question is did Jesus die for the sins of the Gentiles are they considered part of the "world"

1 John 2:1-2
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

John 1:29
29 The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Titus 3:3-5
3 For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another.
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared,
5 He saved us...
John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-6
3 ...God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

I don't see any good contextual reason to restrict the meaning of any of these verses to the Jews. Why use terms expressing universality, like "world," or "mankind," or "all," that could easily be construed as such when a much more limited meaning is actually intended? John seems to settle the question pretty plainly in the first verse cited above.

If the Gentiles were never under the law then how are they freed from the law they were never under?

The Gentiles have always been under the "law of God written on their hearts" (Romans 2:14-15), under the constraint of their God-given conscience, that reveals God's Moral Law to them. It is their violation of this Law, not laws of ceremony and separation unique to Israel, that makes them guilty before the Giver of that Law.

But if by freeing the Jews under their contract or Covenant through His death so that He can be Lord of all through the Spirit what did that look like in scripture.

Not a contract; only ever a covenant.

Establishing a New Covenant with all who would be "circumcised in heart" (Romans 2:28-29) looks like the Gospel accounts of Christ's atoning death and resurrection for the sins of all mankind. It looks like what the writer of Hebrews detailed in chapters 7 to 10 of his epistle, and what Paul wrote in Colossians 2:10-15 and Ephesians 1:1-14.

With that said what did His death mean for the Gentiles and How?

It seems so that He could marry another.

So what does it mean That God loved the World?
"World"

See above.

 

[Tenchi]

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

In this passage this is what it says.....

But John also wrote:

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Paul, too, wrote:

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

but of the same people, also:

1 Corinthians 3:16
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 3:23
23 and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God.

The writer of Hebrews wrote:

Hebrews 5:11-13
11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

and of the same people:

Hebrews 6:9-10
9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints.

Clearly, the Bible offers a more complex description of Christian living than that if one is saved, one will never sin again. Only if one isolates John's verse from the greater context of all of Scripture is such an idea possible. But, held up to the light of the whole counsel of God's word, such proof-texting collapses.

 

[Randy]

Explain
please bare with me I have short term memory..
When Jesus shed His blood on the cross
it was for the Jews correct?

Let me know where I falter in my understanding.

what did He make peace with?

The only thing I can see that meaning is He made peace in the sence that the Jews could not have a relationship with God because by sin they missed His presence. So Jesus made peace taking on the penalty of their sins..which is the death on the cross. So that all man could have access to the father by trusting in His son to change their hearts that the natural biproduct of having a changed heart is the outward show which others could eat from to live.

With that said His blood still works, which...as I go futher in thought believe that He must have resurrected in total bodilly form to present His human blood....just wondering.

That would mean His blood is still alive.



Why you asked

not correct

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

If you belong to Christ then "you" are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

 

[Deidr]

Yes, but you have to read that in context. He was talking about continuing to lead a life of sin, i.e. engage in a lifestyle of sinning and justify it.

This does not cancel out Jesus' teaching in Mark 4. We must receive the word and let it grow within us until it produces 30, 60 or 100 fold. If we allow the cares of this world to choke out what was sown in us, the word will not continue to abide and grow, but will instead wither away just like the parable suggests.

Hidden I'm open to your understanding. I'VE YET READ THE CONTEXT THOUGH.

IM NOT sure what the word is referring to...in the parabe. If it's the message of the Gospel for those to come to repent who could be on their way but have yet to be born from above...or those who have been born from above...

Yet the passage I gave is speaking of being born from above,because it mentions being fathered by God.

Yes, but you have to read that in context. He was talking about continuing to lead a life of sin, i.e. engage in a lifestyle of sinning and justify it.

Now on the other hand the Hebrews passage
In my understanding is speaking of going back under the law for righteousness...when there obviously was a need for something better because of the weakness of man's flesh.
And we know there is no repentance left under the law because Christ Died once and will not die again.

This does not cancel out Jesus' teaching in Mark 4. We must receive the word and let it grow within us until it produces 30, 60 or 100 fold. If we allow the cares of this world to choke out what was sown in us, the word will not continue to abide and grow, but will instead wither away just like the parable suggests.

Well....Just because a person hears the Gospel does not make them born from above.

Remember the wind blows where it wishes you hear the sound but don't know where it's coming or going so is everyone born of the Spirit.

 

[Deidr]

not correct

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

If you belong to Christ then "you" are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

So where was I incorrect Randy

 

[Hidden In Him]

IM NOT sure what the word is referring to...in the parabe. If it's the message of the Gospel for those to come to repent who could be on their way but have yet to be born from above...or those who have been born from above...

It represents the word of God within us, what Peter called the "incorruptible seed" through which we become "born again" and grow:

Love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because “All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away, 25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.” (1 Peter 1:22-25).

Well....Just because a person hears the Gospel does not make them born from above.

That's correct, only in Mark 4 it describes those who "receive the word with gladness" and grow by it, but at a certain point cannot withstand the heat of the day, or allow the thorns and briars to choke out the growth, so both of these classes of people allow the word to stop growing within them because of various factors that play upon them from the outside.

This clearly implies that they truly had received the word, and enough to grow to a certain level of existence as someone in whom the word truly dwells (or there would be no growth at all). But their spiritual growth stops short of where they needed to get to in order to fully please the Farmer by bearing forth fruit, some 30, some 60, some 100 fold.

 

[Annagrace]

I'm a Baptist; So if I could have some Baptist answers I'd appreciate it.

So my question is did Jesus die for the sins of the Gentiles are they considered part of the "world"

I know that God told Peter what God had made clean let no man call unclean.

But what scriptures can I refer to that prove He died for the Gentiles as part of the whole world.

If the Gentiles were never under the law then how are they freed from the law they were never under?

But if by freeing the Jews under their contract or Covenant through His death so that He can be Lord of all through the Spirit what did that look like in scripture.

With that said what did His death mean for the Gentiles and How?

It seems so that He could marry another.

So what does it mean That God loved the World?
"World"

God predestined to adopt (before the foundation of the world) people from all ends of the earth. An ethnic-religious title of Jew or Gentile is of NO account whatsoever when it comes to those whom Christ has called to Himself.

“And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Matthew 24:31

“That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, the righteousness which is by faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9‬

“For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants”
Romans 9:6-8

In the new covenant, Israel should be thought of solely in spiritual terms (neither the physical place of Israel or Jewish heritage holds any weight or relevance under the new covenant). The new Israel is composed of God’s elect; whom can be called from any and all groups/peoples/ethnicities. God shows no partiality and is no respecter of certain people.

 

[Deidr]

It represents the word of God within us, what Peter called the "incorruptible seed" through which we become "born again" and grow:

Love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because “All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away, 25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.” (1 Peter 1:22-25).


That's correct, only in Mark 4 it describes those who "receive the word with gladness" and grow by it, but at a certain point cannot withstand the heat of the day, or allow the thorns and briars to choke out the growth, so both of these classes of people allow the word to stop growing within them because of various factors that play upon them from the outside.

This clearly implies that they truly had received the word, and enough to grow to a certain level of existence as someone in whom the word truly dwells (or there would be no growth at all). But their spiritual growth stops short of where they needed to get to in order to fully please the Farmer by bearing forth fruit, some 30, some 60, some 100 fold.

Hi, my point was
That out of those 3 passages that were presented

The Hebrews one for example the falling away was going back under the law where there was no repentance.

The parable of the sower none of the first mentions one being born from above. Only the last mentions bearing fruit. And if one bare fruit they would be the one born from above.

And the passage I mentioned was one born of God does not sin because God's seed remains in Him.
It never says in that passage you have to keep this seed remaining,for the key is God fathers them

So the parable of the sower most likely is speaking of the message of the Gospel because from Eph 1:13 we know it is after one believes and trust the Gospel of their salvation they are sealed with the Spirit of promise.

And more than likely in my opinion based on the passage of the seed remaineth[continues to remain]The Spirit is the down payment.
And it is in view of redemption day.

The Spirit is the seed that remains The new nature...

As for the passage I presented....what is God's seed that remains that they cannot go on sinning?