Did Jesus take on the sins of the whole world?

[Annagrace]

God's seed needs to remain. It is our responsibility to see to it that it does.

Surely you don’t actually believe it is man’s “responsibility” to “see to it” that the seed of GOD remains?!? Who is mere mortal man to think he could ever successfully bear such a thing?!?! It is the WORK of GOD accomplished only through/by the POWER of GOD according to the WILL of GOD. The “power” and “will” of man is futile and of no account; God laughs in the face of it.

 

[Deidr]

I'm telling you. The overall theme of the book is new vs. old covenant, but that particular verse in context is not talking about going back to works "of the law." It's not in the verse and it's not implied either.


Go back to sin, not back to the law. Read the closing verses again. "For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned." (Hebrews 6:7-8)

The law is passing away. IS THERE A BLESSING FOR YOU IF YOU WERE TO GO BACK TO IT? There's not even repentance

It's taking about if they receive the "rain" i.e. the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but all it ends up producing is sin, then they are fit only to be cursed and burned, like barren fruit trees tossed in the fire. Comparing works of the law here to "bearing thorns and briars" seems unnatural to me. The same symbolism is used in the parable of the Sower, and there the "desires of other things," i.e. the lusts and passions of the flesh, are compared to brains and thorns that rise up to choke out the word. I don't think it's talking about law.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [a]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I'm telling you. The overall theme of the book is new vs. old covenant, but that particular verse in context is not talking about going back to works "of the law." It's not in the verse and it's not implied either.

We disagree
All of the above have to do with old Covenant laying of hands, baptisms, etc

Go back to sin, not back to the law. Read the closing verses again. "For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned." (Hebrews 6:7-8)

For me I see it as what will bear fruit onto life
not the law, but faith in Christ.
For if one goes back to the law and they sin there is no other sacrifice that remains. You heard that the law was passing away...So in reference to going back to sin, that is to go back to the law- for one sin leaves you without repentance.

It's taking about if they receive the "rain" i.e. the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but all it ends up producing is sin,

How about the blessings of Abraham that are promised through faith in Jesus.

then they are fit only to be cursed and burned, like barren fruit trees tossed in the fire. Comparing works of the law here to "bearing thorns and briars" seems unnatural to me. The same symbolism is used in the parable of the Sower, and there the "desires of other things," i.e. the lusts and passions of the flesh, are compared to briars and thorns that rise up to choke out the word. I don't think it's talking about law.

Hebrews 8:13

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Deidr]

No. I could show you the rest of the Parables in Mark 4, and they are all talking about the same thing. The thrust was the word producing 30, 60 and 100 fold of itself out of the believer's heart, mind and life, by the believer giving himself to growing in his knowledge of the things of God. A guy who only knows John 3:16 isn't gonna be teaching much of anybody anything. I think they still hold those signs up at football games, LoL.

Gospel produces this....Seek first the kingdom and all things will be added.
After John Jesus Himself preached the Gospel of the kingdom.
Who soever puts their trust in Jesus should not perish but have Life...
Realizing that God is the God of the living and not the dead when they are born from above they now are born with a new nature and they can not go on to sin.

 

[Deidr]

DEIDR=>
When Jesus shed His blood on the cross
it was for the Jews correct?

For everyone even to this day. Jesus even went and preached to the Spirits in prison.

Sorry Randy I will have to go back to be sure lol what I asked you...But if I recall correctly.
It was where was I incorrect.

To restate my question here: how did the atonement hash out for each individual group- the Jews and Gentiles.

And what I was thinking about was a particular scripture of how Jesus dies to free Israel under the law. So they could be joined to another "Spirit"

Therefore in the passage St John 3:16 I wanted to know who was the world?

So while He died to free Israel underneath the Old Covenant how does His death play out for the Gentiles? I RECEIVED MY ANSWER EARLIER. Basically they could see what Jesus did that made the kingdom available to them so they might believe and therefore join everyone that also believes in unity under the same Spirit.







NOTES
And for my own notes it is as we walk in righteousness sins are forgiven. Hence there is no sin in Him. Walking in righteousness frees you of sin. [TAKE A LOOK AT THAT THOUGHT LATER]
IN HIM=WALKING RIGHTEOUSLY- MORE THE WALK OR DEDICATED TO BEING TRANSFORMED BY THE RENEWAL OF THE MIND.

Walk=mindset

 

[Deidr]

DEIDR=>
When Jesus shed His blood on the cross
it was for the Jews correct?

For everyone even to this day. Jesus even went and preached to the Spirits in prison.

And my question is if it was for everyone how specifically does it apply to the Gentiles? What's the connection..

 

[Iconoclast]

DEIDR=>
When Jesus shed His blood on the cross
it was for the Jews correct?

For everyone even to this day. Jesus even went and preached to the Spirits in prison.

Jesus did not go and preach to spirits in prison after the cross.
Jesus died a covenant death for the children the Father gave to Him.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is not correct. The context of this entire letter in NO WAY implies or “makes clear” that those who’re born again continue on in their sin; in fact, it says quite the opposite.

“NO ONE WHO ABIDES IN HIM SINS; NO ONE WHO SINS HAS SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM” 1john 3:6

Those born again in Christ DO NOT CONTINUE ON IN SIN, NOT EVEN OCCASIONALLY. The apostle John leaves no room for questioning or varying interpretations in this regard. He is very clear.

Christians do not practice sin habitually.
The reigning power of sin has been broken.
Christians do sin however, in thought ,word, and deed.

 

[Deidr]

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Those born again in Christ DO NOT CONTINUE ON IN SIN, NOT EVEN OCCASIONALLY.

Sinless perfection is false doctrine. Those who teach it convince others that they are going to Hell if they make so much as the slightest mistake, which is a Hellish and damnable doctrine.

Be on guard you do not end up there yourself for sending others who listen to you there, thinking they have lost all hope for eternity because they accidentally stubbed their toe and said a curse word in a moment of weakness.

Your judgment be on your own head.

 

[Annagrace]

Sinless perfection is false doctrine. Those who teach it convince others that they are going to Hell if they make so much as the slightest mistake, which is a Hellish and damnable doctrine.

Be on guard you do not end up there yourself for sending others who listen to you there, thinking they have lost all hope for eternity because they accidentally stubbed their toe and said a curse word in a moment of weakness.

Your judgment be on your own head.

Don’t twist my words; especially when I’m simply quoting the words of God recorded for us in scripture.
I humbly ask you,
Where did I convince anyone they would be eternally damned for making a mistake?
Where did I insinuate anyone has lost all hope for eternity because they said a curse word?

I am guilty of no such thing and my conscience bears witness. I have no need to convince you of my sound intentions; for God sees and knows all and judges the hearts and thoughts of all men.

 

[Annagrace]

Christians do sin however, in thought ,word, and deed.

Can you please provide scripture to evidence your belief on this?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I have no need to convince you of my sound intentions

Then don't post me.

 

[donadams]

Jn 1:29 The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him, and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who taketh away the sin of the world.

Jn 14:6

6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

 

[Deidr]

Sinless perfection is false doctrine. Those who teach it convince others that they are going to Hell if they make so much as the slightest mistake, which is a Hellish and damnable doctrine.

Be on guard you do not end up there yourself for sending others who listen to you there, thinking they have lost all hope for eternity because they accidentally stubbed their toe and said a curse word in a moment of weakness.

Your judgment be on your own head.

Doesn't Jesus tell the woman go and sin No more

 

[Iconoclast]

Can you please provide scripture to evidence your belief on this?

1John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God:

Greek: Pas o gegennemenos (RPPMSN) ek tou theou hamartian ou poiei (3SPAI) hoti sperma autou en auto menei (3SPAI) kai ou dunatai (3SPPI) hamartanein (PAN) oti ek tou theou gegennetai (3SRPI).
ESV - No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
ICB - When God makes someone His child, that person does not go on sinning. The new life God gave that person stays in Him. So he is not able to go on sinning, because he has become a child of God.
KJV - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. {is born: or, has been born}
NIV - No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
Wuest - Everyone who has been born out of God, with the present result that he is a born-one (of God), does not habitually do sin, because His seed remains in him. And he is not able to habitually sin, because out of God he has been born with the present result that he is a born-one (of God).

Spurgeon on practices sin - That is to say, he does not live in it, it is not the tenor of his life. He is not outwardly so that others could convict him of it, or inwardly so that his own conscience could chide him with it, a man who loves sin… Immortal principles forbid the child of God to sin (Ed: I would add "as a lifestyle"); the new-born life within us keeps us holy. We have our imperfections and infirmities over which we mourn; but no child of God can live in sin, and love it. He hates it; he is like a sheep that may fall into the mire, but he will not wallow in it, as the swine do. As soon as possible, he is up again out of the mud and the filth. He goes sorrowing, with broken bones, when he perceives that he has grieved his God. His life as a whole is a holy life."

Practices (poieo) sin - present tense = as the general direction of their life. Jon Courson "Because Jesus came to take away sin and to destroy the works of the devil, he who is truly born again doesn't practice sin."

Wuest on practices - Poieo (is) in the present tense which always speaks of continuous action unless the context limits it to punctiliar action, namely, the mere mention of the fact of the action, without the mentioning of details. The translation reads, “Every one who has been born out of God, with the present result that he is a born-one (of God), does not habitually do sin.”

MacDonald feels that John "is contrasting the regenerate man with the unregenerate, and is speaking of constant or habitual behavior. The believer does not have the sin habit. He does not defiantly continue in sin."

Henry Mahan - He that is regenerated by the Spirit of God, in whom Christ is formed, who is a new creature in Christ, does not make sin his practice and course of his life. He is not without the motions of sin within, nor free from thoughts, words and deeds of sin in his life, but he does not give himself up to sin, excuse it, nor continue in it as a servant of sin. God’s nature and the grace of the Spirit abide in him and he cannot practice a life of sin; he is born of God! A life of sin is distasteful to him who pants after holiness and desire to be like Christ. (1 John 3 Commentary)

Oswald Chambers - “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin” (1 John 3:9). Do I seek to stop sinning or have I stopped sinning? To be born of God means that I have the supernatural power of God to stop sinning. In the Bible it is never — Should a Christian sin? The Bible puts it emphatically — A Christian must not sin. The effective working of the new birth life in us is that we do not commit sin, not merely that we have the power not to sin, but that we have stopped sinning. First John 3:9 does not mean that we cannot sin; it means that if we obey the life of God in us, we need not sin. (Signs of the New Birth)

preceptaustin

 

[Annagrace]

1John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God:


Spurgeon on practices sin - That is to say, he does not live in it, it is not the tenor of his life. He is not outwardly so that others could convict him of it, or inwardly so that his own conscience could chide him with it, a man who loves sin… Immortal principles forbid the child of God to sin (Ed: I would add "as a lifestyle"); the new-born life within us keeps us holy. We have our imperfections and infirmities over which we mourn; but no child of God can live in sin, and love it. He hates it; he is like a sheep that may fall into the mire, but he will not wallow in it, as the swine do. As soon as possible, he is up again out of the mud and the filth. He goes sorrowing, with broken bones, when he perceives that he has grieved his God. His life as a whole is a holy life."

Practices (poieo) sin - present tense = as the general direction of their life. Jon Courson "Because Jesus came to take away sin and to destroy the works of the devil, he who is truly born again doesn't practice sin."

Wuest on practices - Poieo (is) in the present tense which always speaks of continuous action unless the context limits it to punctiliar action, namely, the mere mention of the fact of the action, without the mentioning of details. The translation reads, “Every one who has been born out of God, with the present result that he is a born-one (of God), does not habitually do sin.”

MacDonald feels that John "is contrasting the regenerate man with the unregenerate, and is speaking of constant or habitual behavior. The believer does not have the sin habit. He does not defiantly continue in sin."

Henry Mahan - He that is regenerated by the Spirit of God, in whom Christ is formed, who is a new creature in Christ, does not make sin his practice and course of his life. He is not without the motions of sin within, nor free from thoughts, words and deeds of sin in his life, but he does not give himself up to sin, excuse it, nor continue in it as a servant of sin. God’s nature and the grace of the Spirit abide in him and he cannot practice a life of sin; he is born of God! A life of sin is distasteful to him who pants after holiness and desire to be like Christ. (1 John 3 Commentary)

Oswald Chambers - “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin” (1 John 3:9). Do I seek to stop sinning or have I stopped sinning? To be born of God means that I have the supernatural power of God to stop sinning. In the Bible it is never — Should a Christian sin? The Bible puts it emphatically — A Christian must not sin. The effective working of the new birth life in us is that we do not commit sin, not merely that we have the power not to sin, but that we have stopped sinning. First John 3:9 does not mean that we cannot sin; it means that if we obey the life of God in us, we need not sin. (Signs of the New Birth)

preceptaustin

I apologize for the misunderstanding that seems to have occurred. Wasn’t asking to know what the world’s most renowned theologians had to say on the matter, ONLY what the word of God had to say on it. His word and His word alone is what I strongly encourage everyone who professes to be a Christian to live and abide by. To the wind with “knowledge” of carnal, wicked man.

Also, I’m a bit confused as to why you replied back to me with the verse in 1 John 3:9; as this only serves as evidence for the point I was making (that none who are in Christ continue in sin) and doesn’t at all serve as evidence for what you had said (that those in Christ do in fact still sin “occasionally”).

Please clarify.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I'm a Baptist; So if I could have some Baptist answers I'd appreciate it.

So my question is did Jesus die for the sins of the Gentiles are they considered part of the "world"

I know that God told Peter what God had made clean let no man call unclean.

But what scriptures can I refer to that prove He died for the Gentiles as part of the whole world.

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentilesseek: and his rest shall be glorious. Isa.11:10

And in his name shall the Gentiles trust. Mt.12:21

If the Gentiles were never under the law then how are they freed from the law they were never under?

The "law" is simply knowing what God says is right or wrong. Humans knew right from wrong before the law by aquiring the knowledge of good and evil. No doubt Adam and Eve taught their children and so on. Consciousness of good and evil is known by the whole human race. Paul simply said gentiles are judged by their own conscience,

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Rom.2:14

But if by freeing the Jews under their contract or Covenant through His death so that He can be Lord of all through the Spirit what did that look like in scripture.

With that said what did His death mean for the Gentiles and How?

His death looks the same to all believers, whether Jew or gentile. This is why the Apostles rejoiced when they suffered for the name of our Lord Jesus. They suffered and many died for telling this world about how God will freely forgive those who live him and their neighbors.

this is the law and the prophets. Mt.7:12

It seems so that He could marry another.

God is only married to one. It's the wife who divorced herself that needs to return to her husband.

So what does it mean That God loved the World?

It means he chose out of a living heart not to kill sinners who nailed him to a cross.
Personally, I sometimes get angry when people sin against me.

 

[Iconoclast]

I apologize for the misunderstanding that seems to have occurred. Wasn’t asking to know what the world’s most renowned theologians had to say on the matter, ONLY what the word of God had to say on it.

So you think that these men who know what the greek text says in scripture are not concerned with truth? I gave you a list in which half of the men are teachers of the greek. they explained what it says.

His word and His word alone is what I strongly encourage everyone who professes to be a Christian to live and abide by. To the wind with “knowledge” of carnal, wicked man.

Godly teachers are not carnal wicked men. This shows a special level of ignorance to suggest this.

Also, I’m a bit confused as to why you replied back to me with the verse in 1 John 3:9; as this only serves as evidence for the point I was making (that none who are in Christ continue in sin)

You clearly do not understand the answer given. You like others prefer to turn from light to darkness.

and doesn’t at all serve as evidence for what you had said (that those in Christ do in fact still sin “occasionally”).

Please clarify.

You sin in thought, word and deed everyday. You are not better than the Apostle Paul.
Rom.7
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Deidr]

I apologize for the misunderstanding that seems to have occurred. Wasn’t asking to know what the world’s most renowned theologians had to say on the matter, ONLY what the word of God had to say on it. His word and His word alone is what I strongly encourage everyone who professes to be a Christian to live and abide by. To the wind with “knowledge” of carnal, wicked man.

Also, I’m a bit confused as to why you replied back to me with the verse in 1 John 3:9; as this only serves as evidence for the point I was making (that none who are in Christ continue in sin) and doesn’t at all serve as evidence for what you had said (that those in Christ do in fact still sin “occasionally”).

Please clarify.

So you think that these men who know what the greek text says in scripture are not concerned with truth? I gave you a list in which half of the men are teachers of the greek. they explained what it says.

Godly teachers are not carnal wicked men. This shows a special level of ignorance to suggest this.

You clearly do not understand the answer given. You like others prefer to turn from light to darkness.

You sin in thought, word and deed everyday. You are not better than the Apostle Paul.
Rom.7
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

But Go to chapter 8...because He shows the answer there.

 

[Iconoclast]

But Go to chapter 8...because He shows the answer there.

No...Paul clearly wrote as a Christian in the whole book of Romans. He was a christian in romans7