Divine Healing; Why some don’t get healed

[JLB]

Miracles DO happen.
But they are MIRACLES, not every day occurrances.

Amen, this is true.

Miracles do happen.

I believe if a person is healed instantly then that is a miracle.

Healing may take time. Our body is capable of healing itself over time.

Also the scripture says He… went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.


how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Acts 10:38


Many who need to be healed, also may need to be delivered from the oppression of a demon or spirit of infirmity.


Some may not realize this because their denomination may not believe these things, and therefore they may have received a teaching and a mindset that is not biblical.



JLB

 

[electedbyHim]

Then I guess those who embrace this view will also be embracing their illness instead of asking for His stripes to rid them of this adversity.

Some.

No, one can understand pride when they see it and not be proud. To follow your thinking, one had better not notice any vice at all. Because to you, if one sees a vice, well then one has it. Silencing of the truth on a different level.

Wow, it does talk about humility. Is that connected to reality? Can you answer why scripture says, "by his stripes we are healed" which is clearly physical healing, the only kind recorded in the Bible? Why is sickness not considered merely adversity and accepted?

I know what it was and it was not illness. That does not humble a person. Paul mentions it elsewhere in his letters.

wow, not because he loved people but merely loved himself and wanted to show how great he was, I assume. He said he had compassion on them. It did not say he wanted to show them how great he was.

Ok, we can dismiss that one.

Yes, I agree on that one.

Not if the man saying nothing to anyone about what he just did. There is no false humility that is not boasting of its humility. Any move that is lowly taken whereby only God knows one has done so makes a man humble. It is called humbling yourself and that is the way a man becomes humble. He just humble himself. The "relying solely on God" claim can be very proud.

That is what so many of them say. They weep when they say it. The church watches the show and believes them. Sounds good to them.

OK, when I have time. I work 38 hours a week and have over an hour commute. I mostly just manage the Bible as a book. But I am glad to hear recommendations. Thank you.

Dorothy Mae​

Wow, it does talk about humility. Is that connected to reality? Can you answer why scripture says, "by his stripes we are healed" which is clearly physical healing, the only kind recorded in the Bible? Why is sickness not considered merely adversity and accepted?

It is spiritual healing, not physical healing.

1 Peter 2:24 confirms this.
Who Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that having died to sin, we might live to righteousness; by His WOUNDS YOU WERE HEALED.

 

[electedbyHim]

For even if I wish to boast, I will not be a fool, for I would be telling the truth, but I refrain from this so that no one may regard me beyond what he sees in me or what he hears from me, even because of the extraordinary character of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not become arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to trouble me—so that I would not become arrogant. I asked the Lord three times about this, that it would depart from me. But he said to me, “My grace is enough for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” So then, I will boast most gladly about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may reside in me. Therefore I am content with weaknesses, with insults, with troubles, with persecutions and difficulties for the sake of Christ, for whenever I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:6-10

“Thorn in the flesh” is a Hebraic idiomatic expression for a source of irritation; something bothersome.

In America we would call it a “pain in the a#&%”.

The messenger of Satan was a Pharisaical Rabbi who was a “false apostle” that would come behind Paul to try and convince the churches he raised up, that they have to become circumcised and keep the law of Moses in order to be saved.

This was done because of the abundance of his revelations that he would not become arrogant and would stay true to the message of Christ.

Christ crucified, and the demonstration of the Spirit and power.



JLB

a thorn in the flesh … a messenger of Satan. This was sent to him by God, to keep him humble. As with Job, Satan was the immediate cause, but God was the ultimate cause. Paul's use of the word messenger (Greek, angelos, or angel) from Satan suggests the "thorn in the flesh" (lit. "a stake for the flesh") was a demonized person, not a physical illness. Of the 175 uses of this Greek word in the NT, most are in reference to angels. This angel was from Satan, a demon afflicting Paul. Possibly, the best explanation for this demon was that he was indwelling the ring leader of the Corinthian conspiracy, the leader of the false apostles. Through them, he was tearing up Paul's beloved church and thus driving a painful stake through Paul. Further support for this view comes from the context of chapters 10-13, which is one of fighting adversaries (the false prophets). The verb translated "buffet" always refers to ill treatment from other people (Mat_26:67; Mar_14:65; 1Co_4:11; 1Pe_2:20). Finally, the OT describes Israel's personal opponents as thorns (Num_33:55; Jos_23:13; Jdg_2:3; Eze_28:24).

lest I be exalted above measure. The assault was painful, but purposeful. God was allowing Satan to bring this severe trouble in the church for the purpose of humbling Paul who, having had so many revelations, including a trip to heaven and back, would have been proud. The demonized false apostle attacking his work in Corinth was the stake being driven through his otherwise proud flesh.

 

[Christ_empowered]

God does heal people. I think a good question for believers might be to what extent is pursuing healing and miracles appropriate? I ask myself that sometimes. With all the other aspects of Christianity that seem somewhat under appreciated at times…building up believers in faith and knowledge advocating for the least of these engaging an increasingly hostile world…

Pushing an emphasis on miracles seems a bit like escapism.

 

[eddif]

It's not so extremely complex.
Or every believer would be immediately healed of every sickness....
which does not happen.

Isaiah was speaking about being healed from sin, the guilt of sin, the consequences of sin.
Nowhere in those verses does it speak to physical healing.

I think this idea is very damaging to Christianity.
About physical healing, I mean.

Miracles DO happen.
But they are MIRACLES, not every day occurrances.

1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
To a redneck:
Sins are taken care of on the cross.

Healing was taken care of by his stripes.

All was part of the passion of Jesus.

Complex or simple?

eddif

 

[electedbyHim]

God does heal people. I think a good question for believers might be to what extent is pursuing healing and miracles appropriate? I ask myself that sometimes. With all the other aspects of Christianity that seem somewhat under appreciated at times…building up believers in faith and knowledge advocating for the least of these engaging an increasingly hostile world…

Pushing an emphasis on miracles seems a bit like escapism.

I agree with this.

I would like to add that some Christians are obsessed with being healed, that is, if they are truly Christians. I am a firm believer of obedience and sanctification in the Christian life. To many out there running after the health and wealth gospel, this is no where taught in Scripture. But it sure sells to the masses.

 

[electedbyHim]

1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
To a redneck:
Sins are taken care of on the cross.

Healing was taken care of by his stripes.

All was part of the passion of Jesus.

Complex or simple?

eddif

If physical healing was taken care of by His stripes, why are their so many Christians with diseases and physical deformities?

Isaiah 53:5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our peace fell upon Him, And by His wounds we are healed.

That is spiritual healing from sin and 1 Peter 2:24 confirms this.

I do not understand why so many people take that verse out of context, it is not about physical healing whatsoever.

 

[JLB]

That man I spoke of was in peace even as his flesh was dying.

Amen that is awesome.

However this same statement could be made about a person who was not faithful and had been extremely disobedient and therefore was given over to Satan so his flesh could be destroyed, in order that his soul would be saved.

I don’t believe this was the case with the man you spoke of, however the point I am making is we shouldn’t be so quick to assume God is allowing a great man or woman of God to suffer and die from a sickness because that is His will for them.


I believe that it’s the Lord’s will for most everyone to be healed

 

[Dorothy Mae]

then you explain why my pastor friend died of cancer in his mid 60,s ...it was not God will if it aint the Good Lord will they will not be healed

I am not privy to that information and I endeavor not to invent answers out of my imagination.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen, this is true.

Miracles do happen.

I believe if a person is healed instantly then that is a miracle.

Healing may take time. Our body is capable of healing itself over time.

Also the scripture says He… went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.


how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Acts 10:38


Many who need to be healed, also may need to be delivered from the oppression of a demon or spirit of infirmity.


Some may not realize this because their denomination may not believe these things, and therefore they may have received a teaching and a mindset that is not biblical.



JLB

I don't know any denomination that doesn't believe in demonic oppression.
Catholics have exorcists. They believe not only in demonic oppression, but possession.

If you mean that all healing comes from God, then I'd agree.

But it does sound like you're making the sick person responsible for the fact that they are sick.
Bible believing Christians die every day.
If we were always healed, we'd never die.
Something has to cause death.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have no doubt this man was a mighty man of God and went to be with the Lord.

Amen, many great men and women who do many wonderful things for the Lord, may not necessarily understand why they weren’t healed.

We are discussing some biblical reasons why some don’t get healed.

Thanks for sharing.




JLB

The biblical reason why some don't get healed is because God will not heal everyone.
Jesus did not heal everyone he came across, but only some.

God lives in a different dimension, for Him to heal everyone, He'd have to break the very natural laws He created and come into our dimension and heal Christians every moment of the day.

Jeremiah 33:25
25But this is what the LORD says: I would no more reject my people than I would change my laws that govern night and day, earth and sky.

We are living under God's laws.

 

[jasonc]

I don't any denomination that doesn't believe in demonic oppression.
Catholics have exorcists. They believe not only in demonic oppression, but possession.

If you mean that all healing comes from God, then I'd agree.

But it does sound like you're making the sick person responsible for the fact that they are sick.
Bible believing Christians die every day.
If we were always healed, we'd never die.
Something has to cause death.

The Catholics here are the most superstitious.

I have photos some old house ,places and mention that place has spirits they get out the holy water .

Seriously unless you go to them ,you have no worries.

There are times they attack but I don't go demon hunting .I have routes that have hauntings .

The north east of the airport ,the old dairy ,driftwood ,the ocean grill ,the Maher building ,Pocahontas apts and others .

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
To a redneck:
Sins are taken care of on the cross.

Healing was taken care of by his stripes.

All was part of the passion of Jesus.

Complex or simple?

eddif

The stripes speaks of spiritual healing.
It does not mean physical healing.

Isaiah 53:5
4Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
it was our sorrows that weighed him down.
And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,
a punishment for his own sins!
5But he was pierced for our rebellion,
crushed for our sins.
He was beaten so we could be whole.
He was whipped so we could be healed.

Were persons not healing and getting better physically before Jesus died?

The entire passage is speaking about moral healing.

1 Peter 2:24-25 also addresses the above.
24He personally carried our sins
in his body on the cross
so that we can be dead to sin
and live for what is right.
By his wounds
you are healed.
25Once you were like sheep
who wandered away.
But now you have turned to your Shepherd,
the Guardian of your souls.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's not so extremely complex.
Or every believer would be immediately healed of every sickness....
which does not happen.

Isaiah was speaking about being healed from sin, the guilt of sin, the consequences of sin.
Nowhere in those verses does it speak to physical healing.

I think this idea is very damaging to Christianity.
About physical healing, I mean.

Miracles DO happen.
But they are MIRACLES, not every day occurrances.

You have the problem that Jesus actually said, “these signs shall follow them that believe…they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.” He seemed to think that by his stripes our bodies can be healed, not some etheral spiritual internal change that no man can measure. In fact, I’m not sure “spiritual healing” is even in the scripture. Healing the broken-hearted is for sure.

The problem is that real healings don’t happen much in the west because of the relative thinking we’ve been taught. “It’s true for you” guts a man of the faith that would enable him to see the power of God demonstrate obvious answers. I lived in the undeveloped world for some time and there we saw the lame walk. That and understanding the flawed world view of my own culture changed me forever.

It really would be better to seek why miracles are so rare here rather than find an excuse for this state of affairs.

Once I had a few days of bad headaches and asked God to heal it. I don’t get headaches generally. He didn’t. I asked Him what’s wrong and He said I was being “stiff-necked” about a matter. I knew exactly what He meant. I repented and the headaches were gone. That’s what I mean.

 

[Free]

You ever read Galatians, or the context of the text I quoted?


For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Which has nothing to do with Paul's thorn in the flesh. Paul never even hints at what his thorn in the flesh was. Any suggestion that it was a person is mere conjecture.

My main point is Paul was the exception, not the rule.

IOW, if you try to use Paul as an example of why some don’t healed, and specifically the incident I quoted, it’s not applicable, because the situation with Paul was unique, in that Paul was allowed to be put in that unique situation… “because of the abundance of his revelations“.


How many people wrote most of the New Testament, and were caught up to the third heaven and saw things they couldn’t speak about, and were sent to virgin Gentile territory to raise up Churches where no person had ever been with the Gospel?

And Timothy? What was unique about him? If there are two, one an apostle and another his spiritual son at that, then there are more.

 

[eddif]

The stripes speaks of spiritual healing.
It does not mean physical healing.

Isaiah 53:5
4Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
it was our sorrows that weighed him down.
And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,
a punishment for his own sins!
5But he was pierced for our rebellion,
crushed for our sins.
He was beaten so we could be whole.
He was whipped so we could be healed.

Were persons not healing and getting better physically before Jesus died?

The entire passage is speaking about moral healing.

1 Peter 2:24-25 also addresses the above.
24He personally carried our sins
in his body on the cross
so that we can be dead to sin
and live for what is right.
By his wounds
you are healed.
25Once you were like sheep
who wandered away.
But now you have turned to your Shepherd,
the Guardian of your souls.

Ok I think we may get somewhere.

Your Isaiah post. We can do this over time.

How many parts do you think man had / has? You do not have to compete over two VS three.

I believe it can be 3 now (in this time).

Body ( made in his image )
Soul Mind, will, emotions - (often led astray)
Spirit (I will put my law in….)

Isaiah 53 IMHO is diverse

There are different areas of our existence. Jesus healed disease / delivered from demons / raised from dead, genetic problems from birth / restored cut off ear, etc.

Some areas are mind
Some areas are will
Some are emotional

Rebellion
Sins

Souls for people began at creation.
Spirits for sons and daughters began at Pentecost.

Now all these matching parallels are difficult, because of our dark sunshades.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Free]

He would not have been allowed by the Holy Spirit to name his opponent in writing for the whole world to know, but it’s mentioned in general elsewhere.

It isn't because Paul never even implies that it is a person. He never explains it. All explanations, such as have been given, are unsupported opinion, nothing more.

 

[JLB]

If physical healing was taken care of by His stripes, why are their so many Christians with diseases and physical deformities?

Isaiah 53:5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our peace fell upon Him, And by His wounds we are healed.

That is spiritual healing from sin and 1 Peter 2:24 confirms this.

I do not understand why so many people take that verse out of context, it is not about physical healing whatsoever.

It‘s about healing, any kind of healing that prevents us from living the abundant life Jesus paid the price for us to live.

Physical healing is certainly intended.

Peter was quoting Isaiah.

The curse and cause of sin was sickness and disease.

Physical healing from sickness or disease is the evidence sin has been forgiven and removed.


Example:

Then they came to Him, bringing a paralytic who was carried by four men. And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying.
When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”
And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
Mark 2:3-11

• But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.

The proof that the man’s sins were forgiven was his physical healing.

Read Deuteronomy 28:15-68 for a more detailed explanation of the curse of the law being sickness.


Jesus paid the price for our healing. It’s always God’s will to heal us, because Jesus paid the price by His stripes for us to be healed.

Jesus went everywhere proving this by healing all who were oppressed of the devil; physical healing.





JLB

 

[JLB]

I don't know any denomination that doesn't believe in demonic oppression.
Catholics have exorcists. They believe not only in demonic oppression, but possession.

You would be surprised to know that many don’t believe in casting out devils or healing or miracles.

Cessationism.

Thanks to false teachers like John McArthur.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The biblical reason why some don't get healed is because God will not heal everyone.
Jesus did not heal everyone he came across, but only some.

how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Acts 10:38


And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen. John 21:25


The only people where Jesus did just a few healings was in His hometown where they didn’t receive as the Messiah but saw him as they had always known Him, as the carpenters son.


When He had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, “Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works? Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?” So they were offended at Him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house.” Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Matthew 13:54-58


So we see one of the main reasons many are not healed is their unbelief.





JLB