Bible Study Do we love the truth!

[NewLifeInChrist]

All are fully revelant and refer to the “union” of christ with his church

Maybe you can start making your case by explaining this one:

isa 53:5​

But He was wounded for our transgressions,​

He was bruised for our iniquities;​

The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,​

And by His stripes we are healed.​

[The New King James Version (Is 53:5). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

​

I can honestly say I am befuddled by this. You can't be saying the Catholic Church was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, carried our chistisement, and beaten to heal us, right?​

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Then you must be catholic?

I'm Baptist. My heritage does not include the reformation. And that means my heritage does not include Catholicism. So, you are greatly mistaken.

 

[JLB]

Then you must be catholic?

No I'm a Christian.

Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. 1 Peter 4:16


I don't find Protestant's or Catholic's in scripture.

 

[donadams]

Great! We have found one point of agreement.

This is not a full sentence, but a mismash of ideas. Can you clarify what you are saying?

Neither is this a full sentence. Please clarify this also.

The new covenant has a full priesthood
Christ is high priest heb 8:1

Low priests of the same ministerial order of melchisedec see below
And the priesthood of the faithful
1 pet 2:9

Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

The Passover is a perpetual sacrifice and Christ was offering the Passover, and changing it into the new covenant Passover. 1 cor 5:7

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

The sacrifice of Christ begins in the upper room at the last supper, continues in the offering in the garden, when Christ takes all the sins of men upon Himself “thy will be done not mine” the the betrayal and suffering, trials, condemnation by Pilate, crowning with thorns and scouring, crucifixion and death on the cross.

“It is finished” it is not redemption as some think but the very words the high priest is required to say at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice!

Christ is high priest and on the cross was wearing the seamless garment of the high priest.

The sacrifice begins in the upper room at the last supper and ends with his death on the cross.
1 cor 10:16:17 & 1 cor 11:23-30
Lk 24:30-35 & heb 13:10

And a propitiatory sacrifice!

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10
Here in is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.




Christ is eternal priest. Heb 7:17
And the nature of a priest to to offer sacrifice so he has an eternal sacrifice!

Moreover the new covenant ministerial or low priests are commanded by Christ offer His sacrifice!

1 cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Thks

 

[donadams]

Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” “low priests” under the authority of Christ the “high priest”!

With priestly ministry:
Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Matt 22:14 Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jn 3:22 “they went to Jerusalem and preached “faith alone”!
Or “accept Christ ascyour personal lord and savior” or “give your heart to Christ” or whatever the campus crusade for christ tells them to say!

Jn 3:22 river (water) “they immediately went and baptized”!
Amazing!

Baptism for the remission of past sins has been in effect since John the Baptist did his work.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No it does not say “born of water and born again of the spirit”!

It says born again of BOTH water AND the spirit!

I disagree.
The first is "born".
The second is "reborn".

 

[donadams]

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.​

15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,​

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.​

[The New King James Version (Heb 10:11–18). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

I do not know if you are speaking for the Catholic Church or whether your views are consistent with the views of the Catholic Church, but I do know for a fact that after a person's guilt for sins has been removed, there is no longer a need for any "offerings" for sin (Heb 10:18).

It is 100% trustworthy that He will never remember against us our sins and lawless deeds. But in this passage we see more information about the nature of our salvation than just the simple notion that all our sins are forever forgiven. We see the Holy Spirit coming to live in our hearts, bringing love and adoration for all His laws with Him, and "perfecting forever" those in whom He now resides. Both elements of the promised New Covenant are fulfilled in those who He has saved: 1) forgiveness of sins, and 2) the creation of truly righteous and holy new hearts.

All sins and punishment for sin is wiped out by baptism but sin after baptism must require repentance and confession and the punishment must be expiated

 

[donadams]

Maybe you can start making your case by explaining this one:

isa 53:5​

But He was wounded for our transgressions,​

He was bruised for our iniquities;​

The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,​

And by His stripes we are healed.​

[The New King James Version (Is 53:5). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

​

I can honestly say I am befuddled by this. You can't be saying the Catholic Church was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, carried our chistisement, and beaten to heal us, right?​

No i am saying “We are healed” only cos we have union or communion with christ!

 

[donadams]

I'm Baptist. My heritage does not include the reformation. And that means my heritage does not include Catholicism. So, you are greatly mistaken.

Where is a baptist church in scripture?

Or a baptist religion?

 

[donadams]

No I'm a Christian.

Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. 1 Peter 4:16


I don't find Protestant's or Catholic's in scripture.

The universal church was founded by christ on peter and the apostles
Matt 16:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20

Universal (Catholic)
World, universal, all men

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Only Jesus Christ has authority to found the church on Peter and the apostles! Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18
Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

All others are heretical sects the tradition of men!

 

[donadams]

No I'm a Christian.

Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. 1 Peter 4:16


I don't find Protestant's or Catholic's in scripture.

How does one become a Christian?

 

[JLB]

The universal church was founded by christ on peter and the apostles
Matt 16:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20

Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:16-18

No! The Church of Jesus Christ is not founded upon man!

The Church of Jesus Christ was founded upon the revelation from God the Father, that Jesus Christ is the Christ;
the Son of the living God.

The book of Revelation does indeed point out to us that God honored the apostles as well as the twelve tribes of Israel, by putting their names on the gates of the city and on the twelve foundations, but that doesn't mean the church is built upon a man.

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:9-14




JLB

 

[JLB]

How does one become a Christian?

By believing the Gospel, and becoming born again; born of God


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Where is a baptist church in scripture?

Or a baptist religion?

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

The universal church was founded by christ on peter and the apostles

Universal (Catholic)
World, universal, all men

Only Jesus Christ has authority to found the church on Peter and the apostles!

All others are heretical sects the tradition of men!

How does one become a Christian?

A person becomes a Christian when Jesus saves them from the damnation that their sins earned them. And we know that God has chosen to save those who put their trust in Christ (1 Cor 1:21).

If we must talk about heresy (the Biblical term, not the colloquial term), then you are right that there is no possible way to reconcile the idea that God creates a Christian after that person puts his faith in Christ with the idea that God creates a Christian when the Catholic Church baptizes him and he may be considered a Christian so long as he remains in the Catholic Church and regularly participates in its sacraments. The former school of thought is in adversarial opposition to the latter, and vice versa. If the true Church (the one adhereing to the former school of thought) adopts the "heresy" of the "heretics" (who adhere to the latter school of thought), then it becomes "heretical" too and both perish. But, as the Lord told Peter, the gates of hell shall not prevail.

 

[donadams]

I disagree.
The first is "born".
The second is "reborn".

It says born again referring to the second or new birth by water and the spirit

 

[donadams]

Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:16-18

No! The Church of Jesus Christ is not founded upon man!

The Church of Jesus Christ was founded upon the revelation from God the Father, that Jesus Christ is the Christ;
the Son of the living God.

The book of Revelation does indeed point out to us that God honored the apostles as well as the twelve tribes of Israel, by putting their names on the gates of the city and on the twelve foundations, but that doesn't mean the church is built upon a man.

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:9-14




JLB

On a person yes
Moses and the successors of moses had in their very persons the authority of the kingdom

It was taken from them mat 21:43 and given to peter matt 16:18-19 and the apostles with their successors

And jesus demanded they be obeyed matt 23 and so peter and the apostles and their successors are also to be obeyed

How do you found a church upon a confession of faith?

How do you give jurisdictional authority over the universal church to a confession of faith?

Keys of jurisdictional authority given to peter in person and declared blessed!

Amen?

 

[donadams]

By believing the Gospel, and becoming born again; born of God


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Baptism? Right

 

[donadams]

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)


A person becomes a Christian when Jesus saves them from the damnation that their sins earned them. And we know that God has chosen to save those who put their trust in Christ (1 Cor 1:21).

If we must talk about heresy (the Biblical term, not the colloquial term), then you are right that there is no possible way to reconcile the idea that God creates a Christian after that person puts his faith in Christ with the idea that God creates a Christian when the Catholic Church baptizes him and he may be considered a Christian so long as he remains in the Catholic Church and regularly participates in its sacraments. The former school of thought is in adversarial opposition to the latter, and vice versa. If the true Church (the one adhereing to the former school of thought) adopts the "heresy" of the "heretics" (who adhere to the latter school of thought), then it becomes "heretical" too and both perish. But, as the Lord told Peter, the gates of hell shall not prevail.

Thats the guarantee of the papal church founded by Christ on peter and his successors

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Thats the guarantee of the papal church founded by Christ on peter and his successors

Nope, it's the guarantee that Christianity (that has Jesus Christ as its foundation and it's central figure) will prevail against all commers. And the vanquished include those who would point us to Peter and not Christ.