Bible Study Do we love the truth!

[NewLifeInChrist]

What is the seal of the spirit?

I don't know what that has to do with our deicsussion, but since you mentioned it, I looked up all the verses with "seal" and "Spirit". Here they are...

2 Cor 1:22 -- who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.​

Eph 1:13 -- In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,​

Eph 4:30 --And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.​

Ephesians 1:13 indicates that upon hearing and believing the gospel and putting one's trust in Christ, a person is sealed with the Holy Spirit. The other Ephesians verse and the 2 Corinthians verse both say the Holy Spirit is a seal that guarantees our eternal inheritance that we will receive on the day of redemption. I have a feeling this is not consistent with Catholic doctrine, so what does this have to do with you not answering my question?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Once for all = eternal
Once bloody on the cross but forever unbloody

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The nature and duty of a priest is to offer sacrifice!

Eternal priest
Eternal sacrifice

You are confusing His roles.

Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered (Aorist Tense -- simple action in past time) the Most Holy Place once for all ("a single occurrence to the exclusion of any other similar occurrence—‘once and for all, once and never again’" -- Louw-Nida Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament), having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered (Aorist Tense -- simple action in past time) Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Heb 9:12–14)​

Words mean something. He offered Himself to God as a sacrifice for our sins "once and for all". You really need to work on your hermeneutics.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Who says that we get to decide these things

Where does scripture say we have authority to decide doctrine on our own?

Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. (Ro 14:4)​

So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. (Ro 14:12)​

My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. (Jas 3:1)​

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. (1 Jn 2:26–27)​

Is it not obvious that every one of us will answer to God for our actions, for what we teach, and from whom we are learning? I take my responsibility to God seriously. And I take seriously my role as a teacher (which role He gave me). And because I know that teachers will be held to a more strict standard, I try my best to limit what I say to the things I know He has personally taught me. As for you and the others I am trying to help, I say don't listen to anything I say unless the Holy Spirit who lives in your heart gives it an "AMEN!".

Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Wrong... see 1 John 2:26-27 which I quoted above.

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Nope, it was founded to make disciples. He gives People His Spirit so they can learn from Him.

The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)

Funny. He leads us into all truth. We must listen to Him and trust Him.

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

Talking about Jesus, not the Catholic Church.

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

That is hilarious. Everyone has that authoriuty. Are you out of your mind?

Those who submit to the apostolic church know the truth! Those who reject The apostolic church are in error!

You are seriously confused about who we must answer to.

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Well, it is certainly true that everyone who listens to the Spirit of God as He leads them will more often than not be on the same page.

Members of the communion of saints must submit to the teaching of the apostles: “the light (truth) of the world” and the pillar of truth! Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:15

None of them are around any more. But we do have the Scriptures which the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved. And we have Him living in our hearts so that if we listen to Him, we will have a proper understanding of them.

 

[JLB]

Where is the word “trinity”?

Oath = Sacrament or a sacred promise from God

I don't use the word Trinity, because it is not found in the scriptures.

Please give an example of Jesus or His apostles referring to "sacraments".


Baptism in water is where an adult who believes in Jesus Christ is fully immersed in water because they have repented;
turned to God in submission to Jesus Christ as LORD.


An infant does not have the capacity to make that decision.



JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

Explain Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom without baptism?

That wasn't a complete sentence.
How about rephrasing it for me ?

 

[donadams]

You are confusing His roles.

Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered (Aorist Tense -- simple action in past time) the Most Holy Place once for all ("a single occurrence to the exclusion of any other similar occurrence—‘once and for all, once and never again’" -- Louw-Nida Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament), having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered (Aorist Tense -- simple action in past time) Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Heb 9:12–14)​

Words mean something. He offered Himself to God as a sacrifice for our sins "once and for all". You really need to work on your hermeneutics.

Explain the temple and altar in heaven in revelation?

Only purpose for a temple in worship based on a priest offering sacrifice at an altar!

And the church offer his sacrifice eternally as well!

Mal 1:11
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Pure offering
Clean oblation
Unbloody sacrifice

 

[donadams]

Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. (Ro 14:4)​

So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. (Ro 14:12)​

My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. (Jas 3:1)​

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. (1 Jn 2:26–27)​

Is it not obvious that every one of us will answer to God for our actions, for what we teach, and from whom we are learning? I take my responsibility to God seriously. And I take seriously my role as a teacher (which role He gave me). And because I know that teachers will be held to a more strict standard, I try my best to limit what I say to the things I know He has personally taught me. As for you and the others I am trying to help, I say don't listen to anything I say unless the Holy Spirit who lives in your heart gives it an "AMEN!".

Wrong... see 1 John 2:26-27 which I quoted above.

Nope, it was founded to make disciples. He gives People His Spirit so they can learn from Him.

Funny. He leads us into all truth. We must listen to Him and trust Him.

Talking about Jesus, not the Catholic Church.

That is hilarious. Everyone has that authoriuty. Are you out of your mind?

You are seriously confused about who we must answer to.

Well, it is certainly true that everyone who listens to the Spirit of God as He leads them will more often than not be on the same page.

None of them are around any more. But we do have the Scriptures which the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved. And we have Him living in our hearts so that if we listen to Him, we will have a proper understanding of them.

Christ and his church are one! Lk 10:16 isa 53:5 acts 9;4 eph 5:24 epg 5:32 Jn 15:4-5

 

[donadams]

I don't use the word Trinity, because it is not found in the scriptures.

Please give an example of Jesus or His apostles referring to "sacraments".


Baptism in water is where an adult who believes in Jesus Christ is fully immersed in water because they have repented;
turned to God in submission to Jesus Christ as LORD.


An infant does not have the capacity to make that decision.



JLB

Where is “Protestant reformation”

I mean rebellion?

 

[donadams]

That wasn't a complete sentence.
How about rephrasing it for me ?

Please explain Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom without baptism?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Explain the temple and altar in heaven in revelation?

Only purpose for a temple in worship based on a priest offering sacrifice at an altar!

And the church offer his sacrifice eternally as well!

Mal 1:11
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Pure offering
Clean oblation
Unbloody sacrifice

Jesus offered the one and only sacrifice thatcould ever have cleansed us of our sins, and there will never be another offering jor our sins.

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another—26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.​

[The New King James Version (Heb 9:24–28). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

If there is anything we can agree on (and there seems to be nothing), it should be this.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Christ and his church are one! Lk 10:16 isa 53:5 acts 9;4 eph 5:24 epg 5:32 Jn 15:4-5

I will take up the challenge. But if history is any indication, I will find that none of these verses support your argument that we must go to the Catholic Church and be in agreement with its pronouncements or we will be at odds with God.

Here goes...

Lk 10:16

He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.
[The New King James Version (Lk 10:16). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

This, of course, was spoken to the 70 (or 72) who Jesus sent out 2x2 into the cities He would soon visit. He gave them specific instructions about what to carry, where to stay, what to do, and when to leave. Luke 10:16 is the final thing Luke recorded Him as saying to them before they left.

We may take this non-literally and apply it to us today. But it is a two-edged sword. To use it against a person who claims to be serving the Lord, one may find himeslf cut instead of the other.

isa 53:5
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
[The New King James Version (Is 53:5). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]

I can honestly say I am befuddled by this. You can't be saying the Catholic Church was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, carried our chistisement, and beaten to heal us, right?

acts 9;4

Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
[The New King James Version (Ac 9:4). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

This verse does not have any relevance whatsoever to Christ being one with the Catholic Church.

eph 5:24

For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.​

[The New King James Version (Eph 5:23). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

Ok, finally, a verse that has a tiny bit of relevance to the topic. But, even here, all we see is that Christ is the head of His body (which body we are). And it is saying that each person in the body answers directly to Christ. It is not creating a hierarchy whereby the Catholic Church answers to Christ, and its members answer to it.

epg 5:32

This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
[The New King James Version (Eph 5:32). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

This verse also has a tiny bit of relevance in that it says the body of Christ (the church) is one with Him. But again, it is not talking about an institution which has a human leader with underlings and subjects. Nor does it establish a hierarchy that we must subject ourselves to in order to be right with God. We each are one with Him, and answer to Him, so it makes sense that collectively we are one with Him and answer to Him.

Jn 15:4-5

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.​

[The New King James Version (Jn 15:4–5). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Jesus is pointing to Himself, and He is telling us that He is the source of our growth and fruitfulness. But I can see that your reference to these verses indicates you see the Catholic Church as having taken the place of Christ on earth, and that subjecting yourself to it is the means by which you think we are connected with God and is the means by which growth and fruitfulness occurs. It is sad if this is true, but at least it proves some of the verses you referenced are pertinant to the conversation.

 

[JLB]

Where is “Protestant reformation”

I mean rebellion?

I'm not a protestant so I wouldn't know.



JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

Please explain Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom without baptism?

I don't know what you are looking for.
John 3:5..."Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Born of the water, is of our moms.
Born of the Spirit is the result of rebirth from God's seed.

First life, of the flesh.
Second life, of the Spirit.

It is written..."That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:4)
And..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)

 

[donadams]

Jesus offered the one and only sacrifice thatcould ever have cleansed us of our sins, and there will never be another offering jor our sins.

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another—26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.​

[The New King James Version (Heb 9:24–28). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

If there is anything we can agree on (and there seems to be nothing), it should be this.

I never claimed there was more than one sacrifice!

The one sacrifice of christ is once for all

Once blood has on the cross and eternally offered to the father
By christ in the unity of the spirit by his holy church

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

I never claimed there was more than one sacrifice!

The one sacrifice of christ is once for all

Great! We have found one point of agreement.

Once blood has on the cross and eternally offered to the father

This is not a full sentence, but a mismash of ideas. Can you clarify what you are saying?

By christ in the unity of the spirit by his holy church

Neither is this a full sentence. Please clarify this also.

 

[donadams]

I will take up the challenge. But if history is any indication, I will find that none of these verses support your argument that we must go to the Catholic Church and be in agreement with its pronouncements or we will be at odds with God.

Here goes...

Lk 10:16

He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.​

[The New King James Version (Lk 10:16). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

This, of course, was spoken to the 70 (or 72) who Jesus sent out 2x2 into the cities He would soon visit. He gave them specific instructions about what to carry, where to stay, what to do, and when to leave. Luke 10:16 is the final thing Luke recorded Him as saying to them before they left.

We may take this non-literally and apply it to us today. But it is a two-edged sword. To use it against a person who claims to be serving the Lord, one may find himeslf cut instead of the other.

isa 53:5
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
[The New King James Version (Is 53:5). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]

I can honestly say I am befuddled by this. You can't be saying the Catholic Church was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, carried our chistisement, and beaten to heal us, right?

acts 9;4

Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”​

[The New King James Version (Ac 9:4). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

This verse does not have any relevance whatsoever to Christ being one with the Catholic Church.

eph 5:24

For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.​

[The New King James Version (Eph 5:23). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

Ok, finally, a verse that has a tiny bit of relevance to the topic. But, even here, all we see is that Christ is the head of His body (which body we are). And it is saying that each person in the body answers directly to Christ. It is not creating a hierarchy whereby the Catholic Church answers to Christ, and its members answer to it.

epg 5:32

This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.​

[The New King James Version (Eph 5:32). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

This verse also has a tiny bit of relevance in that it says the body of Christ (the church) is one with Him. But again, it is not talking about an institution which has a human leader with underlings and subjects. Nor does it establish a hierarchy that we must subject ourselves to in order to be right with God. We each are one with Him, and answer to Him, so it makes sense that collectively we are one with Him and answer to Him.

Jn 15:4-5

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.​

[The New King James Version (Jn 15:4–5). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Jesus is pointing to Himself, and He is telling us that He is the source of our growth and fruitfulness. But I can see that your reference to these verses indicates you see the Catholic Church as having taken the place of Christ on earth, and that subjecting yourself to it is the means by which you think we are connected with God and is the means by which growth and fruitfulness occurs. It is sad if this is true, but at least it proves some of the verses you referenced are pertinant to the conversation.

All are fully revelant and refer to the “union” of christ with his church

 

[donadams]

I'm not a protestant so I wouldn't know.



JLB

Then you must be catholic?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Once blood has on the cross and eternally offered to the father

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.​

15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,​

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.​

[The New King James Version (Heb 10:11–18). (1982). Thomas Nelson.]​

I do not know if you are speaking for the Catholic Church or whether your views are consistent with the views of the Catholic Church, but I do know for a fact that after a person's guilt for sins has been removed, there is no longer a need for any "offerings" for sin (Heb 10:18).

It is 100% trustworthy that He will never remember against us our sins and lawless deeds. But in this passage we see more information about the nature of our salvation than just the simple notion that all our sins are forever forgiven. We see the Holy Spirit coming to live in our hearts, bringing love and adoration for all His laws with Him, and "perfecting forever" those in whom He now resides. Both elements of the promised New Covenant are fulfilled in those who He has saved: 1) forgiveness of sins, and 2) the creation of truly righteous and holy new hearts.

 

[donadams]

I don't know what you are looking for.
John 3:5..."Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Born of the water, is of our moms.
Born of the Spirit is the result of rebirth from God's seed.

First life, of the flesh.
Second life, of the Spirit.

It is written..."That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:4)
And..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)

Jn 3:22 “they went to Jerusalem and preached “faith alone”!
Or “accept Christ ascyour personal lord and savior” or “give your heart to Christ” or whatever the campus crusade for christ tells them to say!

Jn 3:22 river (water) “they immediately went and baptized”!
Amazing!

 

[donadams]

I don't know what you are looking for.
John 3:5..."Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Born of the water, is of our moms.
Born of the Spirit is the result of rebirth from God's seed.

First life, of the flesh.
Second life, of the Spirit.

It is written..."That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:4)
And..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)

No it does not say “born of water and born again of the spirit”!

It says born again of BOTH water AND the spirit!