Bible Study Do we love the truth!

[NewLifeInChrist]

That is the sacrament of baptismal regeneration

Ez 36:25-27
Baptism
New heart
Spirit
And faith hope and Christ being filled with Grace

No, water does not have the power to do that.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, unlike fallen angels, all my past, present, and future sins are forgiven.

What verses do you use to teach that future sins will be forgiven ?

Some people believe in sinless perfection, but I don't.
Yes, and that was the one-time sacrifice Jesus offered for our sins.

Why didn't that benefit Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 ?
Or Hymenaeus and Alexander in 1 Tim 1 ?
Or Philetus in 1 Tim 2 ?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Please define the truth for me.

If you want to use my definition from the OP then please do so.

I did that already in the post you replied to.

 

[JLB]

Legalistic thinking is not limited to the law of Moses.

I don't see it the same way you do. From the OP, you think, "obey the truth" points to "knowing the truth" and "knowing the truth is abiding (remaining, continuing) in His word; His teaching, His doctrine", and "Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God (2 John 1:9)".

But "obey the truth" in Galatians 3:1 does not refer to "Continuing in the Jesus's words, His teachings, and His doctrines" and the charge that they did "not obey the truth" does not refer to them "transgressing" and "not abiding" in "Christ's doctrine".

"Not obeying the truth" in Galatians 3:1 refers to the Galatian Christians abandoning the idea that their rightness with God was solely due to the sacrifice of Christ and instead adopting idea that their rightness with God was through their obedience to His demands. The context proves this is what it means.

Going further, if anyone thinks that their own rightness with God is through obedience to His demands and is not solely due to Christ's sacrifice for their sins, then they are following in the Galatian Christians' footsteps. And Paul's (inspired) exhortation applies to them, "Who has bewitched you?"

Where in this post do you define the truth?

You have only denied what the truth is.


Here is the definition of the truth from the OP.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is the truth.



Do you agree or disagree?

 

[donadams]

Two ways...

"26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Ga 3:26–27)​

​

"But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." (Ro 13:14)​

The first way is not referring to sprinkling babies with water in a ceremony before they can even crawl, much less believe anything. It is referring to the real baptism by which we receive Christ through faith and by Him entering our hearts we are resurrected from the dead.

The second way referrs to us adopting the mindest that Christ lives in us, that He is leading, guiding, directing, teaching, warning, correcting, and comforting us from the intimacy of our own hearts, and that to live successful lives we must walk in the light He shines on our paths.

Now infants are banned from Christ who said “let the little children come unto me” who says they can believe?

Matthew 18:6
But who so shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Don’t read acts 2:23-39
“this promise” ez 36:25/27 is to you and your CHILDREN!


Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

 

[donadams]

Two ways...

"26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Ga 3:26–27)​

​

"But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." (Ro 13:14)​

The first way is not referring to sprinkling babies with water in a ceremony before they can even crawl, much less believe anything. It is referring to the real baptism by which we receive Christ through faith and by Him entering our hearts we are resurrected from the dead.

The second way referrs to us adopting the mindest that Christ lives in us, that He is leading, guiding, directing, teaching, warning, correcting, and comforting us from the intimacy of our own hearts, and that to live successful lives we must walk in the light He shines on our paths.

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

 

[NoahK]

That’s a lot of scripture referring to baptism that does not do anything!

How do we put on Christ?

By following what Christ taught us and then acting on what He taught us. Every day we are blessed to be on this earth.

 

[NoahK]

Now infants are banned from Christ who said “let the little children come unto me” who says they can believe?

Matthew 18:6
But who so shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Don’t read acts 2:23-39
“this promise” ez 36:25/27 is to you and your CHILDREN!


Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Christ is God. We are not. I do not believe Christ is referring to minors. I believe He is referring to us. We are God's "children" are we not?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Where in this post do you define the truth?

You have only denied what the truth is.

What I said should be clear.

When I said,

But "obey the truth" in Galatians 3:1 does not refer to "Continuing in the Jesus's words, His teachings, and His doctrines" and the charge that they did "not obey the truth" does not refer to them "transgressing" and "not abiding" in "Christ's doctrine".​

I was saying your view of "obey the truth" which you put in the OP coes not conform with the definition Paul was using in His OP to the Galatians.

When I said,

"Not obeying the truth" in Galatians 3:1 refers to the Galatian Christians abandoning the idea that their rightness with God was solely due to the sacrifice of Christ and instead adopting idea that their rightness with God was through their obedience to His demands. The context proves this is what it means.​

It should be obvious that the opposite of "not obeying the truth" is "obeying the truth", meaning that to "obey the truth" is to "cling to the idea that your rightness with God is solely due to the sacrifice of Christ and reject with all your heart any idea rightness with God is through obedience to His demands.

Here is the definition of the truth from the OP.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is the truth.

Do you agree or disagree?

I'm not here to play word games. I am an ambassador for Christ. And I am fighting adainst the precept that right standing with God is through obeying His commands because it renders Christ's sacrifice for our sins meaningless.

I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain. (Ga 2:21)​

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Now infants are banned from Christ who said “let the little children come unto me” who says they can believe?

I didn't say they were banned, I said sprinkling them with water doesn't do anything. And I also highlighted in my comment that babies being baptized before they "believe" isn't even scriptural, at least in Baptist circles, because water baptism, which is symbolic of the resurrection from the dead that they received from Christ prior to their baptism requires faith in Christ to have been excercised beforehand.

Matthew 18:6
But who so shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

You think this baby believes in Jesus? Infant Baptism

Don’t read acts 2:23-39
“this promise” ez 36:25/27 is to you and your CHILDREN!

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Yep, there are many things that were done in the past which are not done today, e.g., turning a staff into a snake, manna falling from the sky, etc. And I would just ask why are there any mountains left? Didn't Jesus say that if you told this mountain to move, it would jump into the sea?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

It does appear that he understood that the first birth was phyiscal and the second birth was spiritual. It's too bad he conflated the two and gave water baptism a role in what is singularly the act of God... giving birth to people from out of His Spirit.

 

[JLB]

What I said should be clear.

When I said,

But "obey the truth" in Galatians 3:1 does not refer to "Continuing in the Jesus's words, His teachings, and His doctrines" and the charge that they did "not obey the truth" does not refer to them "transgressing" and "not abiding" in "Christ's doctrine".​

I was saying your view of "obey the truth" which you put in the OP coes not conform with the definition Paul was using in His OP to the Galatians.

When I said,

"Not obeying the truth" in Galatians 3:1 refers to the Galatian Christians abandoning the idea that their rightness with God was solely due to the sacrifice of Christ and instead adopting idea that their rightness with God was through their obedience to His demands. The context proves this is what it means.​

It should be obvious that the opposite of "not obeying the truth" is "obeying the truth", meaning that to "obey the truth" is to "cling to the idea that your rightness with God is solely due to the sacrifice of Christ and reject with all your heart any idea rightness with God is through obedience to His demands.

I'm not here to play word games. I am an ambassador for Christ. And I am fighting adainst the precept that right standing with God is through obeying His commands because it renders Christ's sacrifice for our sins meaningless.

I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain. (Ga 2:21)​

My Question:

Here is the definition of the truth from the OP.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is the truth.



Do you agree or disagree?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

My Question:

Here is the definition of the truth from the OP.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is the truth.

Do you agree or disagree?

Ok, I'll play along if you insist.

Yes, Jesus is the truth. I know Jesus personally and intimately. So I know the truth. In fact, I have the mind of Christ. He personally retrieves nuggets of gold out of His vast and endless treasures of wisdom and knowledge and He shares those things with me. And by those things, I come to know the deep things of God which can never come into a person's knowlede-set without being taught directly by Jesus Himself. And not only that, as I look into my heart using that magic mirror, I not only see His glory, but I realize that I am actually participating in it with Him. I revel in the fact that the same God who said, "Let there be light" (and make no mistake that God is Jesus) has shined His light, which is the knowledge of His glory, into my heart so that I may see it in the person of Jesus Christ.

Yes, everything that Jesus said is true. He can't tell a lie nor can He be deceptive. And we can go beyond that. Everything He inspired to be written is true, and is not a lie and can not be deceptive. But the fact that everything He says is true does not imply that I know everything He said just because I know Him. I only know the things about Him that He chooses to reveal to me. There is no way, short of being with Him in glory, that a person can comprehend everything about God. And even then, I think we will still be learning new things about God 10 million years from now.

I may be wrong, and often I am, but it appears to me that you are creating a word salad and are asking people to eat it. But I don't want to eat it. Why? Because the Spirit of God who lives in me and who guides me into all truth is warning me to not eat it. I may not be able to accurately know exactly what is wrong with it (due to the vagaries of the English language and inherrant difficulties with conveying spiritual things), but the Spirit's warnings are clearly there.

To help put a fine point on our differences, please explain in a concise manner what your main point is, if it is not that "obedience, not forgiveness, is the path to rightness with God".

 

[donadams]

List the scriptures that use the word sacraments.

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!



Sacraments instituted by Christ applies His grace for the salvation of our souls!

Jesus Christ instituted the sacraments for the salvation of all men!

Sacramental life of the Christian church: I come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10 Jn 1:16-17

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 8:36
1 Corinthians 12:13 2 pet 1:11
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

Thks

 

[donadams]

No, unlike fallen angels, all my past, present, and future sins are forgiven.

Some people believe in sinless perfection, but I don't.

Yes, and that was the one-time sacrifice Jesus offered for our sins.

Baptism washed away all past sins
How are present and future sins forgiven!

How many are the to obtain mercy and forgiveness?

 

[donadams]

No, unlike fallen angels, all my past, present, and future sins are forgiven.

Some people believe in sinless perfection, but I don't.

Yes, and that was the one-time sacrifice Jesus offered for our sins.

Not one time but eternal sacrifice of Christ

 

[donadams]

No, water does not have the power to do that.

God says it does ez 36:25-27
Jesus says it does Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 3:5
Apostles say it does acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:20-21
Scripture says it does acts 22:16

You say no!

Who am I gonna believe? That’s a tough one!

 

[JLB]

Yes, Jesus is the truth.

Amen!

I know Jesus personally and intimately.

Beautiful.

To help put a fine point on our differences, please explain in a concise manner what your main point is, if it is not that "obedience, not forgiveness, is the path to rightness with God".

My main point is:

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is the truth.

The fulness (Three-Fold) of the truth is expressed through His Gospel, His Doctrine, and His Commandments.

Example:

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:3-4



JLB

 

[JLB]

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!

If you want to make a point, please use scripture.

All you have is scripture references, but no actual scripture.

Example of a scripture -

Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— Hebrews 8:8

The word "sacraments" is not found in this scripture you referred to by your reference.



JLB

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

My main point is:

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is the truth.

The fulness (Three-Fold) of the truth is expressed through His Gospel, His Doctrine, and His Commandments.

Example:

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:3-4

JLB

That doesn't clarify that your position is different than, "obedience, not forgiveness, is the path to rightness with God", it supports it.