Do you need to believe Jesus is God to be saved?

[tdidymas]

Whether one must believe that Jesus is God to be saved (at the time of conversion) is debatable. However, as time goes and a new believer gains knowledge of scripture, I think it would be likely that one would start believing in His deity, and I would definitely not recommend anyone to maintain the position that Jesus is not divine. Consider the following:
Rev. 3:10 has Jesus saying He stands at the door of the church, and "if any man hear My voice and open the door, I will come in to him and sup with him and he with Me." This means that Jesus is omnipresent, and lives in the hearts of men (many references) which proves His deity.

John the Baptist said "He existed before me," which shows that the only pre-existing human is divine. Reference Phil 2:6 saying "He existed in the form of God" prior to His incarnation. If this isn't quite enough, we have Jesus saying "I am He" referencing Isaiah 41:4, 43:10, 13, and 48:12, where God Himself is saying those words, meaning He is God and their Savior. So if Jesus is our Savior, then He is God. There are many great teachings on the web on the deity of Christ, if one just searches for them. In Acts and Romans, the "Spirit of Christ" is equated with the "Spirit of God," and it goes on and on.

At the time of conversion, people are usually ignorant of the teaching of scripture. Although there may be many heresies believed at the time, and many hinderances to sanctification, it doesn't mean they aren't saved. It simply means they are immature believers. If a person begins to repent of their known sins, and start trusting that God will deliver them from their sins by His power, then they have begun to obey Jesus' command to "repent and believe the gospel." Isn't that enough for someone to start their walk with God?

 

[Abby-Joy]

Exactly ! After we become a born again Christian that is when the understanding and knowledge comes to us from the Holy Spirit . What we need to know to become a Christian is very basic but to fight the spiritual battles we will face as a Christian we will need more understanding and knowledge . Empowerment from the Holy Spirit .

My spirit understood who He was from the time He began revealing Himself to me, but the intellectual understanding grew as I read the Word.

I believe the scripture is plain that we must believe He is who He is.

John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

That's why He asked His disciples, "Who do you say that I am?" It's vitally important to know Him and believe on Him. You can't believe on someone you don't know.

 

[Abby-Joy]

If a person begins to repent of their known sins, and start trusting that God will deliver them from their sins by His power, then they have begun to obey Jesus' command to "repent and believe the gospel." Isn't that enough for someone to start their walk with God?

Repentance is important, and so are good/right works. But the work of God is that we believe on Him who was sent.

John 6:28-29
[28]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Josef, Walter and Debbie and Fastfredy0,

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John calls Jesus God. Jesus was before the beginning. Jesus spoke the beginning at the beginning, and created everything that is created.

I endorse much of your comprehensive thread, but on the subject of whether or not we have to believe that Jesus is God, you have used John 1:1 to "prove" that Jesus is God. The following statement also seems to be based upon your conclusion on John 1:1:

We can learn who Jesus is when we start reading John. John gets right to the point.

John 1:1 (KJV): In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
This verse does not say:
John 1:1 (according to josef): In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God.
No, the subject of John 1:1 is "The Word" and this language is similar to the Wise Woman "Wisdom" who was with the One God, Yahweh, God the Father in the Creation Proverbs 8. We only encounter Jesus when we come to verse 14:
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

We learn how this begettal was accomplished in the two records of his conception and birth in the following:
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg Gk: begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 1:31–35 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
These are verses that are ignored by Trinitarians, as they clearly teach that Jesus is a human, conceived and born with God the father as his father, and Mary his mother. They override ALL of this by their wrong understanding of John 1:1 and also by their view that somehow God the Son was shrunk into the womb of Mary for 9 months and Jesus became a "God-man" with two contradictory and impossible natures.

This type of thinking is transferred to another popular so-called "Trinitarian verse":

Good morning Trevor, Philippians 2:6 Who Being In The Form Of God, Thought It Not Robbery To Be Equal With God

The whole passage needs to be considered and it is not a picture of God the Son discussing with God the Father the need for him to be shrunk and to enter the womb of Mary. It speaks of the mind of Jesus in his teenage years and during his ministry, that of all mankind he was the greatest prince ever born, and similar to Genesis 1:26-27 he was in the form of God, in the image of God and after the Likeness of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and the Angels. Did he grasp at equality with God, as did Adam and Eve? Did he act like Absalom or any other great Prince or Ruler? No he humbled himself as a Servant, and came to fulfill his role of salvation in obedience to His Father even through the death on the Cross.

Well your answer is incomplete. You have to define:
... what is the definition of "Christ"
... what is the definition of "Son of God"

Much could be written on "Christ", but I understand that Jesus is the "Anointed" by God to be the Davidic King, the Melchizedek High Priest and his anointing also reveals the fullness of the Spirit of God that was revealed in his character, such as is suggested in the following:
Isaiah 11:1–5 (KJV): 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
In other words, Jesus is NOT GOD, but a child that was to be born, a vessel specially prepared by God to accomplish salvation.

I understand that the title "the Son of God" represents that He is the ONLY begotten Son of God, and was destined to be both the King and Priest over ALL of God's Creation Psalm 8, Psalm 110. He is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God, and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

What does it mean to be the "Son of God"
"To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God"

No, before his exaltation and change to immoratlity after his resurrection, he was human nature, not immortal nature, or Divine nature:
Hebrews 2:14 (KJV): Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus was made a little lower than the Angels:
Hebrews 2:9 (KJV): But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings "electedbyhim" and Abby-Joy,

Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33, emphasis added). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence

John 10:30 is another popular so-called "Trinitarian" verse, usually taken in complete isolation from its's context, and where Trinitarians give much credence to the false accusation of the Jews, and side with them and refuse to understand the comprehensive answer that Jesus gave, not only when he speaks of his mission given to him by God, but the role and naming of the Judges as Elohim and his final summary:
John 10:29–38 (KJV): 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Jesus also uses the same language for the Apostles and faithful, and this is not speaking about the faithful being "of one essence and nature":
John 17:11 (KJV): And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:20–23 (KJV): 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him.

Another popular so-called "Trinitarian" verse. In the OT both Angels and Judges were called "God" that is "Elohim" and Jesus addresses this occurrence in John 10:30-36. The title "The Son of God" in the context of John 20:28-31 is a greater title than "God" in John 10:28. I have not dealt with ALL of your verses, due to lack of time and space.

I accepted Him at age 13, and suddenly, I knew who He was/is, that He is God.

Possibly you need to consider the whole counsel of God and grow in an understanding of the great revelation concerning the One God, the father and our Lord jesus Christ the Son of God.

I have a thread "The Yahweh Name" and this presents some aspects of what I learnt at the age of 19, and have continued to understand in a more complete way since then. I am now 80 y.o. and more convinced of this theme than ever. There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is human, now exalted to sit at God's right hand in god the father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Abby-Joy]

And here in this thread, you have deniers of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 10:32-33
[32]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
[33]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

 

[electedbyHim]

Greetings "electedbyhim" and Abby-Joy,

John 10:30 is another popular so-called "Trinitarian" verse, usually taken in complete isolation from its's context, and where Trinitarians give much credence to the false accusation of the Jews, and side with them and refuse to understand the comprehensive answer that Jesus gave, not only when he speaks of his mission given to him by God, but the role and naming of the Judges as Elohim and his final summary:
John 10:29–38 (KJV): 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Jesus also uses the same language for the Apostles and faithful, and this is not speaking about the faithful being "of one essence and nature":
John 17:11 (KJV): And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:20–23 (KJV): 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Another popular so-called "Trinitarian" verse. In the OT both Angels and Judges were called "God" that is "Elohim" and Jesus addresses this occurrence in John 10:30-36. The title "The Son of God" in the context of John 20:28-31 is a greater title than "God" in John 10:28. I have not dealt with ALL of your verses, due to lack of time and space.

Possibly you need to consider that whole counsel of God.

I have a thread "The Yahweh Name" and this presents some aspects of what I learnt at the age of 19, and have continued to understand in a more complete way since then. I am now 80 y.o. and more convinced of this theme than ever. There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is human, now exalted to sit at God's right hand in god the father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

Kind regards
Trevor

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and eisigisis.

 

[Abby-Joy]

Possibly you need to consider that whole counsel of God.

He/His Word is the only Authority I need. I will never deny Him. I've read your long posts and they are 100% false doctrine and have not taken the whole of scripture together, rightly dividing the Word of truth. You completely ignore certain scriptures and pull only select verses out and place on them your own interpretation rather than letting it say what it plainly says. I don't play that game. It's unfruitful to further discuss this with someone who openly denies Him.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Abby-Joy and "electedbyhim",

And here in this thread, you have deniers of Jesus Christ

Perhaps you may like to quietly, over a period of time, analyse the meaning behind the two words "Jesus" and "Christ". Perhaps start with Matthew 1:20-21.

He/His Word is the only Authority I need. I will never deny Him. I've read your long posts and they are 100% false doctrine and have not taken the whole of scripture together, rightly dividing the Word of truth. You completely ignore certain scriptures and pull only select verses out and place on them your own interpretation rather than letting it say what it plainly says. I don't play that game. It's unfruitful to further discuss this with someone who openly denies Him.

I appreciate your perspective, but I would like to discuss some of the verses that I have considered.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and eisigisis.

Yes.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[tdidymas]

Repentance is important, and so are good/right works. But the work of God is that we believe on Him who was sent.

John 6:28-29
[28]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Yes, faith in Christ is the gift of God. So are you objecting to what I said, or simply adding to it?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Greetings Josef, Walter and Debbie and Fastfredy0,

I endorse much of your comprehensive thread, but on the subject of whether or not we have to believe that Jesus is God, you have used John 1:1 to "prove" that Jesus is God. The following statement also seems to be based upon your conclusion on John 1:1:

John 1:1 (KJV): In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
This verse does not say:
John 1:1 (according to josef): In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God.
No, the subject of John 1:1 is "The Word" and this language is similar to the Wise Woman "Wisdom" who was with the One God, Yahweh, God the Father in the Creation Proverbs 8. We only encounter Jesus when we come to verse 14:
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

We learn how this begettal was accomplished in the two records of his conception and birth in the following:
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg Gk: begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 1:31–35 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
These are verses that are ignored by Trinitarians, as they clearly teach that Jesus is a human, conceived and born with God the father as his father, and Mary his mother. They override ALL of this by their wrong understanding of John 1:1 and also by their view that somehow God the Son was shrunk into the womb of Mary for 9 months and Jesus became a "God-man" with two contradictory and impossible natures.

This type of thinking is transferred to another popular so-called "Trinitarian verse":

The whole passage needs to be considered and it is not a picture of God the Son discussing with God the Father the need for him to be shrunk and to enter the womb of Mary. It speaks of the mind of Jesus in his teenage years and during his ministry, that of all mankind he was the greatest prince ever born, and similar to Genesis 1:26-27 he was in the form of God, in the image of God and after the Likeness of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and the Angels. Did he grasp at equality with God, as did Adam and Eve? Did he act like Absalom or any other great Prince or Ruler? No he humbled himself as a Servant, and came to fulfill his role of salvation in obedience to His Father even through the death on the Cross.

Much could be written on "Christ", but I understand that Jesus is the "Anointed" by God to be the Davidic King, the Melchizedek High Priest and his anointing also reveals the fullness of the Spirit of God that was revealed in his character, such as is suggested in the following:
Isaiah 11:1–5 (KJV): 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
In other words, Jesus is NOT GOD, but a child that was to be born, a vessel specially prepared by God to accomplish salvation.

I understand that the title "the Son of God" represents that He is the ONLY begotten Son of God, and was destined to be both the King and Priest over ALL of God's Creation Psalm 8, Psalm 110. He is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God, and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.

No, before his exaltation and change to immoratlity after his resurrection, he was human nature, not immortal nature, or Divine nature:
Hebrews 2:14 (KJV): Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus was made a little lower than the Angels:
Hebrews 2:9 (KJV): But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Kind regards
Trevor

Greetings Trevor, Great post, I was just wondering what about, what are your views when Jesus says, That God is a Spirit.

Love, Walter

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Walter (and Debbie),

I was just wondering what about, what are your views when Jesus says, That God is a Spirit.

The quote is the following, and a similar one a bit later:
John 4:24 (KJV): God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 6:63 (KJV): It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
To be honest I have been conscious of these verses, but have not really come to a clear understanding of the full significance of these, and these in their particular contexts. Maybe you could give an opinion.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Runningman]

Do you need to believe Jesus is God to be saved?​

No. There is nothing in the gospel that saves that says "Believe Jesus is God to be saved."

It's nowhere in the gospels or letters.

Who you need to believe Jesus is to be saved is that he is the Messiah (Christ) and Son of God:

John 4​

25The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When He comes, He will explain everything to us.”​

26Jesus answered, “I who speak to you am He.”​

​

John 8​

24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”​

​

Matt 16​

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He questioned His disciples: “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”​

14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”​

15“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”​

16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”​

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.​

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Greetings again Walter (and Debbie),

The quote is the following, and a similar one a bit later:
John 4:24 (KJV): God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 6:63 (KJV): It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
To be honest I have been conscious of these verses, but have not really come to a clear understanding of the full significance of these, and these in their particular contexts. Maybe you could give an opinion.

Kind regards
Trevor

Good view,

Greetings again Walter (and Debbie),

The quote is the following, and a similar one a bit later:
John 4:24 (KJV): God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 6:63 (KJV): It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
To be honest I have been conscious of these verses, but have not really come to a clear understanding of the full significance of these, and these in their particular contexts. Maybe you could give an opinion.

Kind regards
Trevor

Really, the reason I ask is that seems to me, that Jesus is not only speaking about worship, but just maybe what I can also see Is, by His statement, He was also talking about who His Father is, and that God spirit was in Him, but my point is that I'm making Him to be the Son Of God.

Luke 1

Gabriel Announces Christ's Birth

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Read full chapter

Love, Walter

 

[Fastfredy0]

What we need to know to become a Christian is very basic

Which brings us back to the question: What very basic thing(s) must be known to be saved where "saved" means born again?

 

[Fastfredy0]

No, before his exaltation and change to immoratlity after his resurrection, he was human nature, not immortal nature, or Divine nature:
Hebrews 2:14 (KJV): Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus was made a little lower than the Angels:
Hebrews 2:9 (KJV): But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

... so the bottom line is: You are betting your eternal destination upon the idea that it is NOT necessary to believe Jesus is God.

... maybe you should pose the counter question .... Does one have to believe Jesus is NOT God in order to be saved.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Fastfredy0,

... so the bottom line is: You are betting your eternal destination upon the idea that it is NOT necessary to believe Jesus is God.

I am not betting. I used to be a compulsive gambler in my late teens and early 20's with severe consequences. Rather I seek to understand one simple, clear Scripture at a time, and I find the Trinity is some strange doctrine which most adherents give lip service to, but do not understand. I find the teaching that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God is the simple clear teaching of the OT and NT Bible.

... maybe you should pose the counter question .... Does one have to believe Jesus is NOT God in order to be saved.

I would rather leave all such questions to the Mercy of God, who understands human nature, and how susceptible we all are to wrong ideas. Possibly, even on these forums, there is some sorting of those who are really interested in what the Word of God clearly teaches, and what are the traditions of men. We think we are here to teach, but we should be here to learn and adjust some of our views which may not always be accurate, balanced or wise.

Many that opposed Christ became deaf and blind and hardened when they were shown to be in error and they then sought to undermine Jesus. The ultimate result of all this were the trials of Jesus before Pilate and Herod, and before Annas and Caiaphas, and as a result of these farcical trials, Jesus in effect in prospect replaced both the civil and religious authorities with God's recognition of his appointment as the Christ and the High Priest.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[hawkman]

Which brings us back to the question: What very basic thing(s) must be known to be saved where "saved" means born again?

You must know Jesus the son of God has died for your sins .

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[Fastfredy0]

Re: Which brings us back to the question: What very basic thing(s) must be known to be saved where "saved" means born again?

You must know Jesus the son of God has died for your sins .

... and that's all one must know to be saved?

 

[hawkman]

You must know Jesus the son of God has died for your sins .

... and that's all one must know to be saved?

Yes .