DOES GOD LOVE EVERYONE?

[jeremiah1five]

For me Jesus gave an exact description of the spiritual mechanism by which a person is drawn to salvation in His telling of the Prodigal Son.

Luk 15:17
And when he came to himself....
TOOLS

Luk 15:18
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee.

The way Jesus sees it , "to come unto yourself" , that is the ticket to being drawn to salvation.

The man was ALREADY a son to his father.

Try again.

 

[Tenchi]

John 3:19–20 (KJV 1900): 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

It says men love darkness and hate Christ.
They neither come to Christ.
So how can they choose Christ when they hate Him?

Romans 3:10–11 (KJV 1900): 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

It says none seek God.
So if they hate Christ neither come to Him nor seek Him how then can they be saved?

God must draw people to Christ (John 6:44), and "give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (2 Timothy 2:25), and convict them of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:8) but, having done these things, the individual person is left to choose how to respond to all that God has done in making it possible for them to respond to the Gospel.

Even before salvation was accomplished, the Bible notes people who were righteous:

Matthew 1:19
19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man...

Luke 2:25
25 And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

Luke 23:50-51
50 And a man named Joseph, who was a member of the Council, a good and righteous man
51 (he had not consented to their plan and action), a man from Arimathea, a city of the Jews, who was waiting for the kingdom of God;

Acts 10:22
22 They said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you."

Luke 2:36-37
36 And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years and had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage,
37 and then as a widow to the age of eighty-four. She never left the temple, serving night and day with fastings and prayers.

These passages must temper how you understand passages like Romans 3:10-11, or Ephesians 2:1. In general, people don't seek after God; but there are still instances where this isn't so, where there are exceptions to the rule. Be careful, then, not to say more than the Bible does, overstating things as Calvinism's TULIP does.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God must draw people to Christ (John 6:44), and "give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (2 Timothy 2:25), and convict them of sin, righteousness and judgment (John 16:8) but, having done these things, the individual person is left to choose how to respond to all that God has done in making it possible for them to respond to the Gospel.

Even before salvation was accomplished, the Bible notes people who were righteous:

Matthew 1:19
19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man...

Luke 2:25
25 And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

Luke 23:50-51
50 And a man named Joseph, who was a member of the Council, a good and righteous man
51 (he had not consented to their plan and action), a man from Arimathea, a city of the Jews, who was waiting for the kingdom of God;

Acts 10:22
22 They said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you."

Luke 2:36-37
36 And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years and had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage,
37 and then as a widow to the age of eighty-four. She never left the temple, serving night and day with fastings and prayers.

These passages must temper how you understand passages like Romans 3:10-11, or Ephesians 2:1. In general, people don't seek after God; but there are still instances where this isn't so, where there are exceptions to the rule. Be careful, then, not to say more than the Bible does, overstating things as Calvinism's TULIP does.

How to respond to the drawing?

They hate Christ.
They love darkness.
They don’t come to Christ.
That’s how they respond to the drawing.
Now how do they become saved?

 

[Fastfredy0]

Definition: Love is a volition to favor.
Love is HOLY ... Habakkuk 1:13b You cannot look on wickedness with favor, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Love rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth
Love is a Bond of Unity Colossians 3:14

If it be true that God loves every member of the human family then why did our Lord tell His disciples, “He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father… 23 If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him” (John 14:21,23)? Why say “he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father” if the Father loves everybody? The same limitation is found in Proverbs 8:17 “I love them that love Me.” Again; we read, Psalm 5:5 “Thou hatest all workers of iniquity”—not merely the works of iniquity. Here, then, is a flat repudiation of present teaching that, God hates sin but loves the sinner; Scripture says, Psalm 7:11 “God is angry with the wicked every day.” (KJV) John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (KJV) —not “shall abide,” but even now— ”abideth on him” (Psalm 5:5; Psalm 7:11; John 3:36b). Can God “love” the one on whom His “wrath” abides? Again; is it not evident that the words “The love of God which is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:39) mark a limitation, both in the sphere and objects of His love? Again; is it not plain from the words “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (Romans 9:13) that God does not love everybody? Again; it is written, “For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth” (Hebrews 12:6). Does not this verse teach that God’s love is restricted to the members of His own family? If He loves all men without exception, then the distinction and limitation here mentioned is quite meaningless. A.W.Pink

Premise 1: One must know of Christ to be saved/adopted by God (John 3:18; John 17:3 )
Premise 2: Billions are dead who never heard of Christ (you can google it)
Conclusion: God does NOT love EVERYONE (simply, indisputable logic)

 

[jeremiah1five]

Definition: Love is a volition to favor.
Love is HOLY ... Habakkuk 1:13b You cannot look on wickedness with favor, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Love rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth
Love is a Bond of Unity Colossians 3:14

If it be true that God loves every member of the human family then why did our Lord tell His disciples, “He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father… 23 If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him” (John 14:21,23)? Why say “he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father” if the Father loves everybody? The same limitation is found in Proverbs 8:17 “I love them that love Me.” Again; we read, Psalm 5:5 “Thou hatest all workers of iniquity”—not merely the works of iniquity. Here, then, is a flat repudiation of present teaching that, God hates sin but loves the sinner; Scripture says, Psalm 7:11 “God is angry with the wicked every day.” (KJV) John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (KJV) —not “shall abide,” but even now— ”abideth on him” (Psalm 5:5; Psalm 7:11; John 3:36b). Can God “love” the one on whom His “wrath” abides? Again; is it not evident that the words “The love of God which is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:39) mark a limitation, both in the sphere and objects of His love? Again; is it not plain from the words “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (Romans 9:13) that God does not love everybody? Again; it is written, “For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth” (Hebrews 12:6). Does not this verse teach that God’s love is restricted to the members of His own family? If He loves all men without exception, then the distinction and limitation here mentioned is quite meaningless. A.W.Pink
Premise 1: One must know of Christ to be saved/adopted by God (John 3:18; John 17:3 )
Premise 2: Billions are dead who never heard of Christ (you can google it)
Conclusion: God does NOT love EVERYONE (simply, indisputable logic)

Before all those Scriptures apply to anyone Scripture says men love darkness and hate Christ, neither come to Him.
Romans 3 says men don’t seek God.
So how do they become saved?

 

[Fastfredy0]

Before all those Scriptures apply to anyone Scripture says men love darkness and hate Christ, neither come to Him.
Romans 3 says men don’t seek God.
So how do they become saved?

God intervenes in the people He selected before the foundation of the earth.

John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the right [the authority, the privilege] to become children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 who were born, not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].

 

[Consecrated Life]

For me Jesus gave an exact description of the spiritual mechanism by which a person is drawn to salvation in His telling of the Prodigal Son.

Luk 15:17
And when he came to himself....

Luk 15:18
I will arise and go to my father

The man was ALREADY a son to his father.

Try again

No need for me to try again., the Holy Spirit has not led me astray as to Christ's spiritual intent with regard to the son.
For me, Jesus's description of the son as being " Lost" and "Dead" is clearly reference to the spiritual estate of the son, not whether the son has the same DNA as the father,
Yes ?
No ?
Your obvious interpretation of Jesus's use of " lost" & "dead" being of the flesh, rather than containing a deeper spiritual intent tells me that you are the one that should " try again" from a spiritual mindset rather than a carnal mindset.
Or continue in your missing the spiritual mark of the parable entirely if you choose to .

Luk 15:24
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry."

Only someone with a spiritual discernment miles wide and inches deep would have no understanding of the spiritual intent manifest in the Lord's use of the terms " Lost" & "dead" when speaking of a son who still breathing.
The entire parable flying miles over your head.

 

[Alfred Persson]

It says the hate Christ neither come to Christ.
It says men love darkness.
Romans says men (none) seek God.
So, how do they become saved?
It means everyone that does evil and that is everyone.

Sir, I cited the precise logical fallacies that render your conclusions "unsound". I also gave explicit scripture directly contradicting your "inferences."

Confirmation bias prevents "seeing" contrary evidence.

"Test, examine yourself", does confirmation bias prevent accepting the scriptures from proving your inference wrong?

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified. (2 Cor. 13:5 NKJ)

 

[jeremiah1five]

No need for me to try again., the Holy Spirit has not led me astray as to Christ's spiritual intent with regard to the son.
For me, Jesus's description of the son as being " Lost" and "Dead" is clearly reference to the spiritual estate of the son, not whether the son has the same DNA as the father,
Yes ?
No ?
Your obvious interpretation of Jesus's use of " lost" & "dead" being of the flesh, rather than containing a deeper spiritual intent tells me that you are the one that should " try again" from a spiritual mindset rather than a carnal mindset.
Or continue in your missing the spiritual mark of the parable entirely if you choose to .

Luk 15:24
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry."

Only someone with a spiritual discernment miles wide and inches deep would have no understanding of the spiritual intent manifest in the Lord's use of the terms " Lost" & "dead" when speaking of a son who still breathing.
The entire parable flying miles over your head.

He was ALREADY a son whether in the natural or spiritual.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sir, I cited the precise logical fallacies that render your conclusions "unsound". I also gave explicit scripture directly contradicting your "inferences."

Confirmation bias prevents "seeing" contrary evidence.

"Test, examine yourself", does confirmation bias prevent accepting the scriptures from proving your inference wrong?

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified. (2 Cor. 13:5 NKJ)

God is speaking to believers.
But before one becomes a believer my question is that if they hate Christ and love darkness (sin), neither (on their own) come to Christ, and Romans 3 says NO ONE seeks God, HOW do they become saved?

 

[Consecrated Life]

He was ALREADY a son whether in the natural or spiritual.

So Jesus's description of him being "dead" to the father is meant to convey what in your understanding?

 

[jeremiah1five]

So Jesus's description of him being "dead" to the father is meant to convey what in your understanding?

A son's philosophy comes from the father (and mother).
He was dead in the sense that he left that philosophy to chart his own course.
He may have retained his father's philosophy as it was the famine that caused his troubles and his final resolution to return to pops.

 

[Alfred Persson]

God is speaking to believers.
But before one becomes a believer my question is that if they hate Christ and love darkness (sin), neither (on their own) come to Christ, and Romans 3 says NO ONE seeks God, HOW do they become saved?

Yes, God is speaking to everyone. He explains some don't come to the light because their deeds are evil.... which means some do:

20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." (Jn. 3:14-21 NKJ)

Why can't you agree God didn't say everyone hates the light?

Why?

He who does truth WILL seek God and be saved, because they do so with their whole heart:

But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. (Deut. 4:29 KJV)

11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
14 I will be found by you, says the LORD, (Jer. 29:11-14 NKJ)

Why can't you see this truth? What stops you?

Paul proved by various texts "sin is universal" and if man is left completely to his own sinful nature---"none would seek Him."

But God doesn't leave us alone.

God sent His Son to save the world because prevenient grace makes it possible the world can be saved. God universally enables all individuals, so they seek God and respond to God's offer of salvation.

God does this so "whosoever will" are not condemned.

Everyone has an equal chance for salvation. That some do not choose it, is on their own head. Not God. He has gone the extra mile to save everyone "who wills", whether in this life, or the next.

Your "inferences" are NOT scripture, nor are they "equal to scripture".

 

[Consecrated Life]

So Jesus's description of him being "dead" to the father is meant to convey what in your understanding?

Luk 15:24
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

A son's philosophy comes from the father (and mother).
He was dead in the sense that he left that philosophy to chart his own course.
He may have retained his father's philosophy as it was the famine that caused his troubles and his final resolution to return to pops.

So in your understanding Jesus speaking of someone being " dead, lost, and found" is not a message of salvation , but of "philosophy" ?

 

[Tenchi]

How to respond to the drawing?

In faith, which God has given to every man in some measure (Romans 12:3) and humility.

They hate Christ.
They love darkness.
They don’t come to Christ.
That’s how they respond to the drawing.
Now how do they become saved?

Who is they? As I showed you from Scripture, there are several examples of folks prior to the Atonement who were both good and righteous, looking for the promised Messiah. Not all men are out-and-out Christ-haters, loving darkness. And when God has worked to draw a sinner to Christ, convicting him and illuminating his mind and heart to the truth of the Gospel, he has all that is necessary to positively respond to it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes, God is speaking to everyone. He explains some don't come to the light because their deeds are evil.... which means some do:

20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." (Jn. 3:14-21 NKJ)

Why can't you agree God didn't say everyone hates the light?

Why?

He who does truth WILL seek God and be saved, because they do so with their whole heart:

But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. (Deut. 4:29 KJV)

11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
12 Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
14 I will be found by you, says the LORD, (Jer. 29:11-14 NKJ)

Why can't you see this truth? What stops you?

Paul proved by various texts "sin is universal" and if man is left completely to his own sinful nature---"none would seek Him."

But God doesn't leave us alone.

God sent His Son to save the world because prevenient grace makes it possible the world can be saved. God universally enables all individuals, so they seek God and respond to God's offer of salvation.

God does this so "whosoever will" are not condemned.

Everyone has an equal chance for salvation. That some do not choose it, is on their own head. Not God. He has gone the extra mile to save everyone "who wills", whether in this life, or the next.

Your "inferences" are NOT scripture, nor are they "equal to scripture".

Every unsaved person does evil. That is God's justification for judgment on the human race.
How can everyone have an equal chance for salvation when everyone does evil (before salvation) hates Christ, loves darkness, and neither come to Christ?
Romans 3 says NO ONE seeks God.
So, I ask again, HOW do people become saved?

 

[jeremiah1five]

In faith, which God has given to every man in some measure (Romans 12:3) and humility.



Who is they? As I showed you from Scripture, there are several examples of folks prior to the Atonement who were both good and righteous, looking for the promised Messiah. Not all men are out-and-out Christ-haters, loving darkness. And when God has worked to draw a sinner to Christ, convicting him and illuminating his mind and heart to the truth of the Gospel, he has all that is necessary to positively respond to it.

The Roman epistle as well as ALL Scripture God is speaking to a people ALREADY saved.
The Law was written to and for Israel.
The Psalms was written to and for Israel.
The prophets were written to and for Israel.
The gospels were written to and for Israel.
The epistles were written to Israel and to the Church at Ephesus, at Philippi, and Corinth, etc. Peter writes to the elect of God.
James writes to the twelve tribes scattered.
Everyone loves darkness, hates Christ, neither come to Christ, and Romans 3 says NO ONE seeks God.
So, I ask again, HOW do people become saved?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Luk 15:24
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.


So in your understanding Jesus speaking of someone being " dead, lost, and found" is not a message of salvation , but of "philosophy" ?

No, the message of salvation comes from God.
The story of the Prodigal Son is about a father and how he raised his kids.
But it does carry religious overtones. Still, the boy started out as a son and ended as a son, so no it's not necessarily about salvation since the boy was already a son to his father (or already 'saved.')

 

[Consecrated Life]

Luk 15:24
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

No, the message of salvation comes from God.
The story of the Prodigal Son is about a father and how he raised his kids.
But it does carry religious overtones. Still, the boy started out as a son and ended as a son, so no it's not necessarily about salvation since the boy was already a son to his father (or already 'saved.')

A more ice cold interpretation of the Love of God contained in a parable I can't recall .
The Holy Spirit tells me that my Lord never spoke of someone being "lost" apart from His ability to save.

Luk 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Luk 15:24
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.



A more ice cold interpretation of the Love of God contained in a parable I can't recall .
The Holy Spirit tells me that my Lord never spoke of someone being "lost" apart from His ability to save.

Luk 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

The word lost is always used of God’s elect people.
We were contemplated in His Mind in Himself in Eternity. We were with Him and this is His foreknowledge of us. By virtue of creating man and blowing us into the nostrils of Adam He blew us His elect into Adam’s loins and DNA. In this we were no longer in Him and became “lost.”
But He follows the book of life and at the appointed time He finds us again never to be forsaken.