Hell cant be cast into a lake of fire and have a residence.
Do you guys never want to be seen doing something useful.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Does The Bible Teach There Is A Second Chance In The Afterlife To Be Saved By Jesus?
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
- Start date
Do you guys never want to be seen doing something useful.
Hell continues to be intact as a residence even after it has been cast into the lake of fire. It doesn't say in Revelation 20 that hell is destroyed when it is cast therein.
Yes your forum talk is not vanity, and God will do the same vanity as man, to not destroy the devil and all vain men.
That is correct. The devil will not ultimately be destroyed...he will be cast into the lake of fire where he will be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Revelation 20:10). That is the nature of what it means to be cast into the lake of fire.
This is torment:
2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Hades is emptied of its prisoners and then it is cast into the lake of fire, EMPTY:
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:13-14 NKJ)
So it can't be a place of everlasting torment, no one is in it after Revelation 20:13.
Happy Easter, everyone!
Christ is risen!
Unlike pagan ideas later assimilated into Christendom, eternal punishment in Scripture involves both body and soul in a place called "Gehenna" (aka, "Lake of Fire") (Mt. 5:29-30; 10:28; 18:9; Mk. 9:43-48; Rev. 19:20). The event where a "Legion" of demons were imprisoned in unclean swine flesh and compelled to drown in a lake prefigured Judgment Day when "souls" are imprisoned in abominable resurrection bodies and thrust into the Lake of Fire (Lk. 8:30-33).
YLT Matt. 5:29 'But, if thy right eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
YLT Matt. 5:30 'And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
YLT Matt. 10:28 'And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.
YLT Matt. 18:9 'And if thine eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee; it is good for thee one-eyed to enter into the life, rather than having two eyes to be cast to the gehenna of the fire.
YLT Mk. 9:43 'And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
YLT Mk. 9:45 'And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
YLT Mk. 9:47 And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the gehenna of the fire --
Pagans thought Hades was a place where souls are tormented. That's unscriptural. Catholics became confused about Hades, making what applied ONLY to unbelievers to believers. Purgatory. And then they invented ideas about purgatory.
Purgatory is a corruption of what the Bible says about Hades, and its only for those who die unsaved. Not believers.
YLT Matt. 5:29 'But, if thy right eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
YLT Matt. 5:30 'And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
YLT Matt. 10:28 'And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.
YLT Matt. 18:9 'And if thine eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee; it is good for thee one-eyed to enter into the life, rather than having two eyes to be cast to the gehenna of the fire.
YLT Mk. 9:43 'And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
YLT Mk. 9:45 'And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
YLT Mk. 9:47 And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the gehenna of the fire --
Pagans thought Hades was a place where souls are tormented. That's unscriptural. Catholics became confused about Hades, making what applied ONLY to unbelievers to believers. Purgatory. And then they invented ideas about purgatory.
Purgatory is a corruption of what the Bible says about Hades, and its only for those who die unsaved. Not believers.
Revelation 20:10 declares to us what is the nature of what it means to be cast into the lake of fire.
And again, everlasting destruction is destruction that continues into eternity, where the wholeness of the individual becomes less and less as time passes while never reaching zero.
As in the equation y = 1 / x.
Where do its prisoners go, if their names have not been written in the Book of Life? The lake of fire! The same place where Hell will be cast.
What does it matter if the prisoners are no longer in Hades? They are tormented in fire for ever and ever (Revelation 20:10).
It is quite scriptural (Luke 16:19-31).
That is NOT what you claimed. You said hell is the place of eternal torment. Clearly that was wrong. Just admit the error, and get on board for the "big win". Soon, the Orthodox view will be God gives people a "second chance" if they didn't really screw it up the first time around.
Torments with a redemptive purpose is not pagan. Catholic/Protestant adoption of pagan ideas about Hades and its tormented souls, is unscriptural.
I say that hell is a place of eternal torment in order to simplify the matter.
Fact is, if someone is in hell today, they will be tormented in the lake of fire for ever and ever.
Torment in hell is identified as everlasting punishment in Matthew 25:46.
Eternal Punishment does not mean eternal torment. Its the "second death" from which there is no resurrection ---for all eternity their way back no longer exists. They died "the second death". Their place before the face of God has been eternally destroyed (2 Thess. 1:9).
It does not logically follow all eternally punished with banishment must continue to exist.
The goats are cast into the Lake of Fire, which was created for Satan and his angels, and it is eternal. It does not follow every goat will be eternally tormented. Each cast there in were judged, and according to their deeds are punished.
There is no reason to suppose God changes His standards during different judgments of the lost. Punishment is according to deeds:
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (Rev. 20:12-13 KJV)
The wicked "shall have their part in the lake", how big a part is according to deeds. One size does not fit all:
"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part (3313 μέρος meros ) in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Rev. 21:8 NKJ)
3313 μέρος meros
Meaning: 1) a part 1a) a part due or assigned to one 1b) lot, destiny.
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You can gamble on eternity if you'd like to.
I am going to consider that Revelation 20:10 declares to us the nature of what it means to be cast into the lake of fire.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 is defined by the equation y = 1 / x;
Wherein y is the wholeness of the individual and x is the time elapsed.
As x increases, y decreases and is never able to reach zero.
When x = 1,000,000, y = 1 / 1,000,000.
Everyone should repent and believe NOW, before they die. Nothing in my "second chance" says otherwise.
Catholics set the standard, and Protestant Reformers generally accepted it. They had "bigger fish to fry."
Catholic eisegesis has become "orthodox" to many in mainline Protestant churches, but NO ONE lives consistent with the belief.
If you really believed all your family and friends who don't know Jesus will be eternally tormented, you would spend your entire day trying to get them to repent.
Every day. You wouldn't spend time posting here.
So you don't live consistent with the belief all unbelievers will be eternally tormented. You prove by your actions you really don't believe that, OR you are a horrible evil person. There is no other alternative.
But you aren't alone, neither did I live consistent with the classic view of hell when I claimed to believe it.
AND I never saw a Christian who does.
We aren't evil, deep down inside we really don't believe our just and loving God would eternally torment good people who made mistakes in this fallen realm.
So people are beginning to question the "classic view", WHY so many scriptures contradict it.
Advocates of the classic view are always contradicting the plain sense of the Scripture, to keep their traditions.
Peter spoke very plainly and I believe him. Even mockers will have the gospel preached to them again when they are dead, so they can be judged according to men in the flesh, but choose to live according to God in the spirit:
4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)
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We are evil (Matthew 7:11, Luke 11:13, Jeremiah 17:9); and no one is good but God.
So, God is righteous and just to eternally torment people who are actually evil and whose hearts are deceitful so that they don't even realize that they are evil (Jeremiah 17:9).
All fallen in Adam have an evil human nature, and you'll get no argument from me that God can punish all for it. But He sent His Only Begotten Son to save us. Which indicates "what God can do, and what He does" can be very different.
Jesus' point was made in the contrast between morally flawed humans who still had paternal love for their children, and Perfect God who loved us, how much more would He give His children good gifts.
I think you missed Christ's point.
And you deflected. If you really thought all your unbelieving family and friends will be eternally tormented, you would not be wasting time debating me, you would weep and moan in their presence, begging them to become believers.
But deep down inside, you don't believe God will do that. I've never met a Christian who does. They claim (as I once did) to believe that, but their actions prove otherwise.
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Round and round.
There was no second chance for humanity to return to Eden. A concept was established.
There there was one chance for Old Testament people to be saved for eternity. That chance was when Jesus preached to those in Abraham’s Bosom (those who had made it into Abraham’s Bosom). The concept of a chance to fulfill the first chance occured only once. Not a second chance, but a fulfillment to complete their first opportunity.
Jesus fulfilled the law. Those under the law had a chance to fulfill their life under the law (by responding to his preaching in Abraham’s Bosom). That door closed.
From the preaching in Abraham’s Bosom forward the Gospel message is the only chance.
Creation knowledge sends people to seek God. Seek and ye shall find. Ask and it will be opens to you. Ask or seek and the missionary will come. A man from Macedonia appeared in a vision.
Second chance No.
Completed chance? Yes.
Did I complete it all correctly/completely? I highly doubt it. Is the concept there? I hope so.
Christian conversation or legalistic war?
Mississippi redneck
eddif
There was no second chance for humanity to return to Eden. A concept was established.
There there was one chance for Old Testament people to be saved for eternity. That chance was when Jesus preached to those in Abraham’s Bosom (those who had made it into Abraham’s Bosom). The concept of a chance to fulfill the first chance occured only once. Not a second chance, but a fulfillment to complete their first opportunity.
Jesus fulfilled the law. Those under the law had a chance to fulfill their life under the law (by responding to his preaching in Abraham’s Bosom). That door closed.
From the preaching in Abraham’s Bosom forward the Gospel message is the only chance.
Creation knowledge sends people to seek God. Seek and ye shall find. Ask and it will be opens to you. Ask or seek and the missionary will come. A man from Macedonia appeared in a vision.
Second chance No.
Completed chance? Yes.
Did I complete it all correctly/completely? I highly doubt it. Is the concept there? I hope so.
Christian conversation or legalistic war?
Mississippi redneck
eddif