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Does The Bible Teach There Is A Second Chance In The Afterlife To Be Saved By Jesus?

Exactly! The time of his coming. Do you believe we are in the last days Jesus spoke of in Mat 24 Alfred?
That was an odd question. If you looked at any of my blogs, the obvious answer is yes. I'm a little too busy for this twitter like banter. See you on the next main post.
 
I have improved the logical argument substantially, check it out!

 
I have improved the logical argument substantially, check it out!

My answer is still no.
 
That was an odd question. If you looked at any of my blogs, the obvious answer is yes. I'm a little too busy for this twitter like banter. See you on the next main post.
Great! You and I are among the many that do. Likely you understand what those last days are, and how we are very near to the end of that stretch of time.
 
My answer is still no.
"And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, `The old is better.'" (Lk. 5:39-6:1 NKJ)

But a man of God will be corrected by scripture, when they are clearly wrong:

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 NKJ)

I proved by the scriptures, there is a second chance to be saved. No one will go into damnation if they didn't consciously reject the Gospel of Christ. Acceptance or Rejection of Christ are the Only grounds upon which a person is judged:

16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
(Jn. 3:16-21 NKJ)
 
"And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, `The old is better.'" (Lk. 5:39-6:1 NKJ)

But a man of God will be corrected by scripture, when they are clearly wrong:

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 NKJ)

I proved by the scriptures, there is a second chance to be saved. No one will go into damnation if they didn't consciously reject the Gospel of Christ. Acceptance or Rejection of Christ are the Only grounds upon which a person is judged:

16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
(Jn. 3:16-21 NKJ)
So why are you needing to make Hell less of a punishment?
You have not proved anything to me yet.
All the verses you have shown here point to a single swing at the target.
Could you tell me why you want a "do-over" for the Hell bound?
Why do you think that Hell should be softened and not shown to be a fitting future for those who commit high treason against the Highest?
 
So why are you needing to make Hell less of a punishment?
You have not proved anything to me yet.
All the verses you have shown here point to a single swing at the target.
Could you tell me why you want a "do-over" for the Hell bound?
Why do you think that Hell should be softened and not shown to be a fitting future for those who commit high treason against the Highest?
As those statements aren't backed up with scripture, like mine are, they aren't worth responding to. But I will lest someone think them valid.

The torment of God's inspection where pain burns away sin and delusion is torment, Christ's choice of words prove that.

As you ignored the scriptures I quoted, I can't prove anything to you ever.

Characterizing scriptures as a "single swing" isn't what a Bible believing Christian would say.

The Catholic perversion of "hell" which was passed on to Protestants and became "orthodoxy" is hideous and the reason why many become enemies of Christianity and hate the God of the Bible. I weep that my God is hated "without cause", slandered because people imagine He would torment for all eternity people who couldn't go to Christ because of self delusion and addiction to sin, or ignorance.

Only an inhumane God would not take the time to make sure people understood the facts upon which they were choosing their eternal destiny, and not give the deceived and ignorant a chance to reconsider bad choices.


Not one denier of God giving second chances would refuse to give second chances to people in their life, and would consider anyone who never gave a second chance "heartless." Yet they blaspheme God as the God of no second chance.


I didn't soften hell, I proved the torments within are chastisement, that many need so they won't be cast into the Lake of Fire, die the second death from which there is no return. Hell is actually a function of God's love. Its the final wake up call before the Lake of Fire. Only the children of the Devil, who cannot live without sin, reject God's offer of eternal life with Him in Love and holiness.
 
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As those statements aren't backed up with scripture, like mine are, they aren't worth responding to. But I will lest someone think them valid.
What scripture do I need to back up my claim that you haven't proved anything to me?
And the point that your verses seem to show only a single chance(but every morning when you wake up you have that chance again... but only as long as this life continues).
That was the only statement I made.
The others were questions.
The torment of God's inspection where pain burns away sin and delusion is torment, Christ's choice of words prove that.
Scripture needed.
As you ignored the scriptures I quoted, I can't prove anything to you ever.
I agree with you that you might not be up to the task.
Characterizing scriptures as a "single swing" isn't what a Bible believing Christian would say.
It is what I would say and I am a Bible believing Christian... so you are wrong on that one as well.
The Catholic perversion of "hell" which was passed on to Protestants and became "orthodoxy" is hideous and the reason why many become enemies of Christianity and hate the God of the Bible. I weep that my God is hated "without cause", slandered because people imagine He would torment for all eternity people who couldn't go to Christ because of self delusion and addiction to sin, or ignorance.
I never said any of those things... I may agree with a few of your points... but that isn't even the thrust of the discussion.
Only an inhumane God would not take the time to make sure people understood the facts upon which they were choosing their eternal destiny, and not give the deceived and ignorant a chance to reconsider bad choices.
So you want God to be more human?
Why should the Almighty conform to your limitations?
Everyone has all of their lives to reconsider bad choices... that is what this life is about... choices.
Not one denier of God giving second chances would refuse to give second chances to people in their life, and would consider anyone who never gave a second chance "heartless." Yet they blaspheme God as the God of no second chance.
The key point of your above post is "in their life". God gives all sorts of chances... during your life. Afterwards... consequences.
I didn't soften hell, I proved the torments within are chastisement, that many need so they won't be cast into the Lake of Fire, die the second death from which there is no return. Hell is actually a function of God's love. Its the final wake up call before the Lake of Fire. Only the children of the Devil, who cannot live without sin, reject God's offer of eternal life with Him in Love and holiness.
Scripture needed.
And you do soften Hell if you make it a temporary second chance. That would be a very good definition of softening Hell.
Hell is God's love? So God tortures for your good... for thousands of years... and you want to call that loving?
OK... but not me.
 
What scripture do I need to back up my claim that you haven't proved anything to me?
And the point that your verses seem to show only a single chance(but every morning when you wake up you have that chance again... but only as long as this life continues).
That was the only statement I made.
The others were questions.

Scripture needed.

I agree with you that you might not be up to the task.

It is what I would say and I am a Bible believing Christian... so you are wrong on that one as well.

I never said any of those things... I may agree with a few of your points... but that isn't even the thrust of the discussion.

So you want God to be more human?
Why should the Almighty conform to your limitations?
Everyone has all of their lives to reconsider bad choices... that is what this life is about... choices.

The key point of your above post is "in their life". God gives all sorts of chances... during your life. Afterwards... consequences.

Scripture needed.
And you do soften Hell if you make it a temporary second chance. That would be a very good definition of softening Hell.
Hell is God's love? So God tortures for your good... for thousands of years... and you want to call that loving?
OK... but not me.
My blog post is filled with scripture, none of which you quoted in context to prove what I got wrong. You keep giving your opinions. They don't sway me. Only quoting the scripture in context to prove your point, is persuasive.

Enjoy the plethora of scripture here:
 
My blog post is filled with scripture, none of which you quoted in context to prove what I got wrong. You keep giving your opinions. They don't sway me. Only quoting the scripture in context to prove your point, is persuasive.
I am not trying to prove you wrong.
I am saying you are not convincing me of your argument.

Enjoy the plethora of scripture here:
I don't follow external links.
If you can not present your argument on this site to me... why should I run all over creation?
All the scriptures you have shown to me say nothing of a second chance.
Put forward your one best verse.
Try me.
 
I am not trying to prove you wrong.
I am saying you are not convincing me of your argument.


I don't follow external links.
If you can not present your argument on this site to me... why should I run all over creation?
All the scriptures you have shown to me say nothing of a second chance.
Put forward your one best verse.
Try me.
The OP has a plethora of scripture commented on. Feel free to copy paste that text, supply any missing context and show where it contradicts my point.

Its simple. Try it for a change. Its called Bible exposition, exegesis.

I am convinced you weren't swayed by my argument because you don't understand it, or the scripture I cited in support.

Prove me wrong.
 
The OP has a plethora of scripture commented on. Feel free to copy paste that text, supply any missing context and show where it contradicts my point.

Its simple. Try it for a change. Its called Bible exposition, exegesis.

I am convinced you weren't swayed by my argument because you don't understand it, or the scripture I cited in support.

Prove me wrong.
Honestly I have not read any of this post except for what I have replied to.
So you don't have a single best argument?
So sad.
 
Honestly I have not read any of this post except for what I have replied to.
So you don't have a single best argument?
So sad.
I cannot see the profit people get when they say "you quoted it out of context" but can't prove that allegation.

I cannot see any gain when someone says "you didn't persuade me!" yet can't cite the precise scripture and point I made, that was unpersuasive.

I believe you honestly haven't read any of my post. You glanced at it, didn't understand it. Of course you weren't persuaded.

Some folks always claim others are wrong, but when asked to prove it they get mad. Secretly they are afraid of Scripture, of showing their ignorance of scripture. So they continue not quoting scripture, even after repeatedly being asked to do so.

Its sad, actually.

I'll try one more time. Copy paste the scripture and the argument I made upon it, and prove why you found it "unpersuasive".
 
Honestly I have not read any of this post except for what I have replied to.
So you don't have a single best argument?
So sad.
Here is my argument, explain precisely why you find it unpersuasive:

The scriptures cited against the "second chance" have been taken out of context:

For example, the Rich Man is in Hades, which in the context of the New Testament is a temporary residence. Hades will be emptied out on Judgment Day (Rev. 20:13), it then "dies the second death" which symbolically means it will never return (Rev. 20:14). As the Rich Man is raised up out of Hades with everyone else (John 5:28-29; Rev. 20:13), the "great gulf" is not an impassible barrier "to the resurrection of life, and …the resurrection of condemnation." (Jn. 5:29 NKJ)

Also the context of Hebrews 9:27, only unbelievers are judged after they die because Christians "shall not come into judgment (2920 κρίσις krisis), but has passed from death into life" (Jn. 5:24 NKJ). Therefore this judgment is "the second chance" because, after being judged, some "eagerly wait for Him…for salvation" (Heb. 9:28 NKJ). That fits the meaning of the Greek krisis, it denotes a "trial, contest, selection" where an "opinion or decision" is given one way or the other.-Strong's Concordance.

The exclusion of Christians (because they already believe in Christ) proves belief or non-belief in Christ is central to this "judgment". The "Judgment" in Hebrews 9:27 is the "second chance trial" for those who died without Christ, including the generations who lived and died " since "the foundation of the world". They were all lost without Christ " but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself…to bear the sins of many" (Heb. 9:26, 28 NKJ).

Read it for yourself, it screams "second chance", its why Christ came, to save the lost:

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment (2920 κρίσις krisis),
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:24-28 NKJ)
How can we be certain this trial isn't a judgment whether one died a Christian? All who died undergo the same judgment, therefore the same issue is being determined in everyone's case, including the generations who died before Christ came. Of course, they died non-Christian and if that condemned then the "trial" would be a sick parody of justice. What could be determined in everyone's case, is how they respond to Christ's sacrifice for their sins.

The context implies what is judged: It is written: "He…appeared….once at the end of the ages…to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" so He would not "have…to suffer often since the foundation of the world" (Heb. 9:24-26). Therefore, the Judgment is whether Christ's sacrifice applies to the one being judged, whether he is one of the "many" saved by it. As belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for salvation or condemnation (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; John 3:16-18; 5:24; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:11-12;1 Peter 2:6-8), it follows belief or non-belief in the gospel of Christ decides the outcome of this Trial. Therefore, regardless of when someone died, the Gospel is preached to them so they be judged according to men in the flesh, but choose to live according to God in the spirit (1 Pt. 4:6).

That is "the trial", those who believe Jesus is "the Christ the Son of God" are saved, live according to God in the spirit and eagerly wait for Christ's second coming, for salvation, the resurrection to life. Having heard and obeyed Christ's voice while in the grave they done good (John 5:28-29).

ALL unsaved humanity goes through the same trial, from Adam and Eve forward. Therefore, all who repent and believe in Jesus during their trial have Jesus as the propitiation for their sins just as the scripture promises: "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world [1]" (1 Jn. 2:2 ).

28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice (ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς)
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:28-29 NKJ)
Jesus promised "the dead in the grave "will hear His voice" and "those who have done good" will rise to the "resurrection of life". The wording parallels what Christ said about the living who hear and obey His voice:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice (ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς) of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (John 5:24 KJV)
Jesus used the same phrase ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς (hear his voice) in both John 5:24, 28. As it refers to obedient hearing leading to eternal life in John 5:24, it means obedient hea
 
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I cannot see the profit people get when they say "you quoted it out of context" but can't prove that allegation.
I don't think I ever mentioned context.
I cannot see any gain when someone says "you didn't persuade me!" yet can't cite the precise scripture and point I made, that was unpersuasive.
All of it is not persuasive... do you want me to copy/paste this entire thread?
I believe you honestly haven't read any of my post. You glanced at it, didn't understand it. Of course you weren't persuaded.
That is correct... Except... I didn't glance at it at all.
Some folks always claim others are wrong, but when asked to prove it they get mad. Secretly they are afraid of Scripture, of showing their ignorance of scripture. So they continue not quoting scripture, even after repeatedly being asked to do so.
I am not mad. I have asked you for your strongest scriptural defence of your position... that doesn't sound like I am scared of Scripture to me.
Its sad, actually.

I'll try one more time. Copy paste the scripture and the argument I made upon it, and prove why you found it "unpersuasive".
I'll try one more time.
Give your single verse defence of your position that is strongest. Show one verse that definitively backs your position.
Your very best/strongest/"iron man" argument.
 
Here is my argument, explain precisely why you find it unpersuasive:

The scriptures cited against the "second chance" have been taken out of context:

Hebrews 9:27 for example, only unbelievers are judged after they die because Christians "shall not come into judgment (2920 κρίσις krisis), but has passed from death into life" (Jn. 5:24 NKJ). This proves belief or non-belief in Christ is central to this "judgment". Therefore, the "Judgment" in Hebrews 9:27 is the "second chance trial" for those who died without Christ, including the generations who lived and died " since "the foundation of the world". They were all lost without Christ " but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself…to bear the sins of many" (Heb. 9:26, 28 NKJ).

After the appointed death and "judgment" of Hebrews 9:27 some "eagerly wait for Him…for salvation" (Heb. 9:27). Therefore, for them this "judgment" (2920 κρίσις krisis) was the "second chance" for life, because it is implied those who didn't take the second chance now are in terror of His coming, "for condemnation" (Is. 13:6-11; Ac. 10:42; 2 Cor. 5:11; John 5:28-29) This fits the meaning of the Greek krisis, it denotes a "trial, contest, selection" where an "opinion or decision" is given one way or the other.-Strong's Concordance.


How can we be certain this trial isn't a judgment whether one died a Christian? All who died undergo the same judgment, therefore the same issue is being determined in everyone's case, including the generations who died before Christ came. Of course, they died non-Christian and if that condemned then the "trial" would be a sick parody of justice. What could be determined in everyone's case, is how they respond to Christ's sacrifice for their sins.

The context implies what is judged: It is written: "He…appeared….once at the end of the ages…to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" so He would not "have…to suffer often since the foundation of the world" (Heb. 9:24-26). Therefore, the Judgment is whether Christ's sacrifice applies to the one being judged, whether he is one of the "many" saved by it. As belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for salvation or condemnation (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; John 3:16-18; 5:24; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:11-12;1 Peter 2:6-8), it follows belief or non-belief in the gospel of Christ decides the outcome of this Trial. Therefore, regardless of when someone died, the Gospel is preached to them so they be judged according to men in the flesh, but choose to live according to God in the spirit (1 Pt. 4:6).

That is "the trial", those who believe Jesus is "the Christ the Son of God" are saved, live according to God in the spirit and eagerly wait for Christ's second coming, for salvation, the resurrection to life. Having heard and obeyed Christ's voice while in the grave they done good (John 5:28-29).

ALL unsaved humanity goes through the same trial, from Adam and Eve forward. Therefore, all who repent and believe in Jesus during their trial have Jesus as the propitiation for their sins just as the scripture promises: "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world [1]" (1 Jn. 2:2 ).


Jesus promised "the dead in the grave "will hear His voice" and "those who have done good" will rise to the "resurrection of life". The wording parallels what Christ said about the living who hear and obey His voice:


Jesus used the same phrase ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς (hear his voice) in both John 5:24, 28. As it refers to obedient hearing leading to eternal life in John 5:24, it means obedient hearing will result in life in John 5:28-29. All who obey Christ's voice whether alive or dead shall live, be given eternal life.[2]
That is not one verse.
You are just rambling.
I am telling you how to convince me and you are just copy/pasting.
Many words do not win an argument.
Keep it simple or I will not read it.
I am giving you the key to convincing me but you are not using it.
One verse... prove your point... maybe two verses if you need it.
 
That is not one verse.
You are just rambling.
I am telling you how to convince me and you are just copy/pasting.
Many words do not win an argument.
Keep it simple or I will not read it.
I am giving you the key to convincing me but you are not using it.
One verse... prove your point... maybe two verses if you need it.
I tried. Gave you every opportunity to prove your point, prove me unpersuasive. Have a nice day.

The scriptures cited against the "second chance" have been taken out of context:

For example, the Rich Man is in Hades, which in the context of the New Testament is a temporary residence. Hades will be emptied out on Judgment Day (Rev. 20:13), it then "dies the second death" which symbolically means it will never return (Rev. 20:14). As the Rich Man is raised up out of Hades with everyone else (John 5:28-29; Rev. 20:13), the "great gulf" is not an impassible barrier "to the resurrection of life, and …the resurrection of condemnation." (Jn. 5:29 NKJ)

Also the context of Hebrews 9:27, only unbelievers are judged after they die because Christians "shall not come into judgment (2920 κρίσις krisis), but has passed from death into life" (Jn. 5:24 NKJ). Therefore this judgment is "the second chance" because, after being judged, some "eagerly wait for Him…for salvation" (Heb. 9:28 NKJ). That fits the meaning of the Greek krisis, it denotes a "trial, contest, selection" where an "opinion or decision" is given one way or the other.-Strong's Concordance.

The exclusion of Christians (because they already believe in Christ) proves belief or non-belief in Christ is central to this "judgment". The "Judgment" in Hebrews 9:27 is the "second chance trial" for those who died without Christ, including the generations who lived and died " since "the foundation of the world". They were all lost without Christ " but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself…to bear the sins of many" (Heb. 9:26, 28 NKJ).

Read it for yourself, it screams "second chance", its why Christ came, to save the lost:

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment (2920 κρίσις krisis),
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:24-28 NKJ)
How can we be certain this trial isn't a judgment whether one died a Christian? All who died undergo the same judgment, therefore the same issue is being determined in everyone's case, including the generations who died before Christ came. Of course, they died non-Christian and if that condemned then the "trial" would be a sick parody of justice. What could be determined in everyone's case, is how they respond to Christ's sacrifice for their sins.

The context implies what is judged: It is written: "He…appeared….once at the end of the ages…to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" so He would not "have…to suffer often since the foundation of the world" (Heb. 9:24-26). Therefore, the Judgment is whether Christ's sacrifice applies to the one being judged, whether he is one of the "many" saved by it. As belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for salvation or condemnation (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; John 3:16-18; 5:24; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:11-12;1 Peter 2:6-8), it follows belief or non-belief in the gospel of Christ decides the outcome of this Trial. Therefore, regardless of when someone died, the Gospel is preached to them so they be judged according to men in the flesh, but choose to live according to God in the spirit (1 Pt. 4:6).

That is "the trial", those who believe Jesus is "the Christ the Son of God" are saved, live according to God in the spirit and eagerly wait for Christ's second coming, for salvation, the resurrection to life. Having heard and obeyed Christ's voice while in the grave they done good (John 5:28-29).

ALL unsaved humanity goes through the same trial, from Adam and Eve forward. Therefore, all who repent and believe in Jesus during their trial have Jesus as the propitiation for their sins just as the scripture promises: "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world [1]" (1 Jn. 2:2 ).

28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice (ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς)
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:28-29 NKJ)
Jesus promised "the dead in the grave "will hear His voice" and "those who have done good" will rise to the "resurrection of life". The wording parallels what Christ said about the living who hear and obey His voice:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice (ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς) of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (John 5:24 KJV)
Jesus used the same phrase ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς (hear his voice) in both John 5:24, 28. As it refers to obedient hearing leading to eternal life in John 5:24, it means obedient hearing.
 
I tried. Gave you every opportunity to prove your point, prove me unpersuasive. Have a nice day.
So you have no idea how to simplify your argument.
Sound sketchy to me from the get go.
But I will give it a go.
The scriptures cited against the "second chance" have been taken out of context:

For example, the Rich Man is in Hades, which in the context of the New Testament is a temporary residence. Hades will be emptied out on Judgment Day (Rev. 20:13), it then "dies the second death" which symbolically means it will never return (Rev. 20:14). As the Rich Man is raised up out of Hades with everyone else (John 5:28-29; Rev. 20:13), the "great gulf" is not an impassible barrier "to the resurrection of life, and …the resurrection of condemnation." (Jn. 5:29 NKJ)
Agreed. The great gulf is between Paradise and Sheol.
Also the context of Hebrews 9:27, only unbelievers are judged after they die because Christians "shall not come into judgment (2920 κρίσις krisis), but has passed from death into life" (Jn. 5:24 NKJ).
Disagree... your interpretation of these passages fly in the face of Rev 20:12-13.
Therefore this judgment is "the second chance" because, after being judged, some "eagerly wait for Him…for salvation" (Heb. 9:28 NKJ). That fits the meaning of the Greek krisis, it denotes a "trial, contest, selection" where an "opinion or decision" is given one way or the other.-Strong's Concordance.
Those who eagerly await are still alive... not the dead.
Hebrews 9 is about the qualifications of Jesus... not the status of those awaiting Him.
The exclusion of Christians (because they already believe in Christ) proves belief or non-belief in Christ is central to this "judgment".
Where are Christian excluded... I see nothing yet that gets the believer out of Judgement day. Rev 20:12.
The "Judgment" in Hebrews 9:27 is the "second chance trial" for those who died without Christ, including the generations who lived and died " since "the foundation of the world".
So Christians never die? Neat idea but it does not stand up.
They were all lost without Christ " but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself…to bear the sins of many" (Heb. 9:26, 28 NKJ).
You are cutting and pasting Scripture together here. The sin that is put away would be the requirement of the sin offering for the High Priest... and as Jesus is His own Sacrifice He has put away the sin sacrifice requirement.
Read it for yourself, it screams "second chance", its why Christ came, to save the lost:
It does not scream anything like that to me... spell it out... slow down and step by step show your work.
How can we be certain this trial isn't a judgment whether one died a Christian?
What trial?
All who died undergo the same judgment, therefore the same issue is being determined in everyone's case, including the generations who died before Christ came.
So this contradicts your previous claim that Christians are not subject to judgement. Now "all"... which one is it?
Of course, they died non-Christian and if that condemned then the "trial" would be a sick parody of justice.
Where is the "if"? Looks like you are adding things here.
What could be determined in everyone's case, is how they respond to Christ's sacrifice for their sins.
During their lives... yes. I couldn't agree more.
The context implies what is judged: It is written: "He…appeared….once at the end of the ages…to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" so He would not "have…to suffer often since the foundation of the world" (Heb. 9:24-26).
You are cutting out the parts where this is about this establishing Jesus' qualifications.
Therefore, the Judgment is whether Christ's sacrifice applies to the one being judged, whether he is one of the "many" saved by it.
Incorrect... This passage is about the High Priests sacrifice to be clean... and how Jesus, by being the perfect Sacrifice, establishes His qualifications to be the Highest Priest.
As belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for salvation or condemnation (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; John 3:16-18; 5:24; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:11-12;1 Peter 2:6-8), it follows belief or non-belief in the gospel of Christ decides the outcome of this Trial. Therefore, regardless of when someone died, the Gospel is preached to them so they be judged according to men in the flesh, but choose to live according to God in the spirit (1 Pt. 4:6).
You are stretching the limits of how to string things together to say what you want. Again you are complicating things so that you can slip your point in to a place it does not belong.
That is "the trial", those who believe Jesus is "the Christ the Son of God" are saved, live according to God in the spirit and eagerly wait for Christ's second coming, for salvation, the resurrection to life. Having heard and obeyed Christ's voice while in the grave they done good (John 5:28-29).
There is nothing in John 5:28-29 that says the dead are preached to in the grave.
They hear God's voice and come out to be judged by what they did in life... not since entering the grave.
ALL unsaved humanity goes through the same trial, from Adam and Eve forward. Therefore, all who repent and believe in Jesus during their trial have Jesus as the propitiation for their sins just as the scripture promises: "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world [1]" (1 Jn. 2:2 ).
Right... but the trial is about what was done about Jesus during life... not after death.
You are making that bit out of whole cloth.
Jesus promised "the dead in the grave "will hear His voice" and "those who have done good" will rise to the "resurrection of life". The wording parallels what Christ said about the living who hear and obey His voice:
Yep... Believers in the grave will come forth to life eternal and the unbelieving to a lake of fire for eternity.
Rev 20:15
Jesus used the same phrase ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς (hear his voice) in both John 5:24, 28. As it refers to obedient hearing leading to eternal life in John 5:24, it means obedient hearing.
During life... yep. After death... there is no chance to change your mind... or else Jesus would have mentioned the rich man's second chance in Luke 16.
 
"Does the Bible teach there is a second chance in the afterlife to be saved by Jesus?

Some believe we have only one life on earth to make our decision for or against God. Hebrews 9:27 says "it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment." They believe Jesus' parable reveals no second chance for the uncharitable Rich Man in Hell. When he asks Lazarus to warn his family about hell he is told they have sufficient warning in the Bible to take the opportunity to repent and be saved during this life.

However, the very next verse (Hebrews 9:28) says after death and the "judgment" those judged "eagerly wait" for Christ's Second coming, for salvation. Therefore, the "judgment" (2920 κρίσις krisis) is "the second chance", in Greek krisis is a "trial, contest, selection…opinion or decision given"-Strong's Concordance. Clearly, all who repent and believe in Jesus "won" this "contest", because now they "eagerly wait for Him…for salvation":

Hebrews 9:24-28 (NASB)
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.


Jesus Christ has made one, perfect atonement for all sin, that need never be repeated, unlike the animal sacrifices for sin in the OT (vs. 25). In consequence of this fact, the sin for which people will be judged has no future remediation in another sacrifice; that is, there is no period of time in which people may now sin for which any other sacrifice can be made. If sinners will not place themselves, by faith, under the atoning work of Christ, trusting in him as their Savior and Lord (Romans 10:9-10), there "remains no more sacrifice for their sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation" (Hebrews 10:26-27). And so, when the unrepentant sinner dies, they face only judgment, no other atonement available to them, no other means of reconciliation to God yet to come, but the one they have rejected.

When Christ returns, it will be to "complete" the salvation of those who are his; having already fully freed them from the penalty and power of sin (John 3:16, 1 John 1:9; Romans 6:6; Galatians 5:24), at his Second Coming, Christ will free them forever from the presence of sin (Revelation 21-22), welcoming his own into eternal, unhindered fellowship with their holy Maker. This is the "salvation without reference to sin" for which all of his own "eagerly wait"; not a new, second atonement, another sacrifice for sin, another means of salvation, but the completion of salvation in which the born-again already stand in their spiritual position in their Savior.

What about Jesus' parable? To begin with, its not a parable, it’s a prophecy Christ would send the risen Lazarus to the mocking Pharisees (Luke 16:14) and they would treat Lazarus (John 12:9-11) just as they treated Moses and the prophets, rejecting their testimony about Christ (Luke 16:29-31). As a "prophecy" it is truth, not "false prophecy."

I'm afraid I can't make much sense of what you've written here. The parable of the Rich Man offers no ground whatever for what you've asserted about Christ sending the beggar, Lazarus, to "the mocking Pharisees". In fact, there is no hint at all of the parable actually being intended as a prophecy. What Abraham said to the Rich Man referred, not to something that would happen in the future, but was a denial of the underlying idea in what the Rich Man proposed, which was that a resurrected Lazarus would carry weight with the Rich Man's brethren that the testimony of the Law and the Prophets did not. I find it very interesting that Abraham, in this parable, seemed to think the jeopardy of torment in hell was evident in the writings of the OT, as was the means of escaping such torment. In any case, Abraham was not being prophetic but simply correcting the thinking of the desperate Rich Man.

The context implies a second chance exists for the Rich Man.

1.)Rather than a self-absorbed man who curses both Abraham and God for his plight, the Rich Man shows selfless concern for his family (Luke 16:. 2.) Abraham affectionately calls the Rich Man "son" (Luke 16:25).

Actually, in not pleading for release from the torment in which he was, the Rich Man acknowledged that he deserved to be in such torment, and, in speaking of his brethren needing rescue from the same fate, acknowledged that they, too, deserved to be where he was. Rather than ennobling himself, the Rich Man's plea for his brothers was a confession both of his own wickedness and that of his kin.

Abraham calls the Rich Man "son," not to be affectionate, but to indicate that the man was a Jew (aka "a son of Abraham"). Nothing more can be asserted from Abraham's use of this term. It is sheer imagination to think Abraham was being affectionate in describing the Rich Man as "son."

3.) Abraham and others wanted to comfort the Rich Man, but an impassible chasm prevented them (Luke 16:26).

??? When did Abraham indicate he wanted to comfort the Rich Man? Abraham could see the Rich Man just as the Rich Man could see him, but Abraham didn't call out to the Rich Man first to see if he needed help which, it seems to me, he would have done if he was wanting to help the Rich Man. Instead, he said nothing to the Rich Man until the Rich Man called out to him, and then, in response he just pointed out that no relief could be given the Rich Man because of the chasm separating him from Abraham. In fact, Abraham didn't first point to the mechanical problem of the chasm between them, but in response to the plea of the Rich Man immediately pointed out to him that both he and Lazarus were getting what they deserved.

Luke 16:24-26 (NASB)
24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'


It is impossible the redeemed would rebelliously want to subvert God's punishment of the wicked (Rev. 15:3-4). Therefore, the scene does not depict God's punishment.

Wow. This is wonky stuff. See above.

When the Rich Man cried "I am tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao) in this flame (5395 φλόξ phlox)", his words convey meaning many don't see. The Rich Man is in "sorrow" (cp. Acts 20:38 3600 ὀδυνάω odunao) for his sins, for the first time he is 100% aware how badly he missed the mark of God's perfection.

??? Again, you're making an assumption. Being in flames of torment, it's not surprising that the Rich Man deeply regretted his evil living. Who wouldn't? No one enjoys punishment. There is, then, nothing intrinsically noble or redeeming in wishing one had done better when suffering the consequences of bad choices. The murderer, as he awaits penal execution, wishes he'd murdered more carefully; the heroin addict dying of aids wishes he'd not used dirty needles; the parachutist plummeting to his death wishes he'd checked his chute with greater care, and so on. Where's the redeeming virtue in such "sorrow"? In any case, everybody, saved or not, when they move from this world into the next, will have a big "eye-opening" moment as they encounter God "face-to-face" (1 Corinthians 13:12). Such understanding is not, in itself, virtuous, any more than coming to understand anything better is virtuous, which both the righteous and the wicked are capable of.
 
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All Israel will be saved even if they must pass suffer the torments of hell first (Romans 11:26-33; 1 Corinthians 3:11-15).

The "Israel" in view here is of a national sort, not individual. As a nation, Israel will be saved. But as Paul pointed out,

Romans 9:6-8 (NASB)
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.


What is the "promise"? The Messiah, Jesus Christ, who would "save his people from their sins."

Ephesians 2:11-16 (NASB)
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands—
12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one
and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross
, by it having put to death the enmity.


All who would be "Israel," that is the Chosen of God, His children, may be so through faith in Jesus Christ. But there is salvation in no other person and by no other means (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). Those who die unrepentant in their sin, neglecting "so great a salvation" will find themselves in the condition of the Rich Man, who was a Jew, separated from all relief by an unbridgeable chasm.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 speaks, not of the unrepentant sinner suffering the torments of hell in some atoning or purifying process before entering heaven, but of the testing of a born-again believer's works, particularly their teaching, which, if it be found to be wood, hay and/or stubble will be burned up, receiving no reward from God.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NASB)
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


Once liberated and fully able to make a free will choice the gospel of Christ is preached, for belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for judgment (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; John 3:16-18; 5:24; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:11-12;1 Peter 2:6-8).

Wow. You've strayed far afield in your "interpretation" of God's truth. See above. In any case, it isn't what a person believed or did not believe that makes them worthy of, and destined for, hell, but their sin. A person is not rescued by Christ from ignorance and unbelief but from the just penalty of their sin for which he atoned. Jesus was the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," not the Lamb of God who takes away the ignorance and unbelief of the world.

John 1:29
Romans 5:12
Romans 6:23
Isaiah 59:2
Hebrews 9:22
Isaiah 53:5-6
 
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