Does the Holy Spirit move after Acts?

[ezra]

I'm not sure that the "real" reason Christ came was to save souls. I agree that was a part of the reason He came. However, Jesus said He had come to preach the gospel of the kingdom. I think Christians get tunnel vision with the issue of salvation. The message of God is much bigger than just man’s salvation. The new birth is a means to an end. Jesus said, unless a man is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The new birth is the means of gaining access to the kingdom.
11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a( Saviour,) which is Christ the Lord. Bruce may i ask what type church you attend or to be more fair how do you see the plan of salvation?

 

[ezra]

I know a man who had Hodgkin disease, the Doctors say he should be dead, he didn't even go to Church.

what does that have to do with healing?

 

[Blev]

...I have had my heart broke in 25 places....can't fix that. I would rather go through life without a leg than a broken heart.

I was once close to God but my circumstances have changed me...long story! Another 10 threads or so...

Hi BornAgain

Jesus said
''The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised'' (Luke 4:19)

Isaiah prophesied of Jesus about this and goes on to say:

''To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint to them that mourn in Zion, to give to them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified ( Isaiah 61:2-3)

Things happen that we cant change, but Jesus can turn things around. Nothing is too hard for Him. No matter how close any of us are to the Lord, He longs for us to have an even deeper, closer relationship with Him and to know Him more fully. I pray He does this in your life and all that is mentioned above, healing your broken heart and bruises, taking about sorrow and heaviness, and filling you with joy and peace,.

Rest in His love, and God bless

 

[Butch5]

In the context of 1 Cor 13 the knowledge is supernatural knowledge, it goes along with prophecy. It's not a persons knowledge that Paul is addressing. He says we know in part. What did he know in part?

I'm not sure that the "real" reason Christ came was to save souls. I agree that was a part of the reason He came. However, Jesus said He had come to preach the gospel of the kingdom. I think Christians get tunnel vision with the issue of salvation. The message of God is much bigger than just man’s salvation. The new birth is a means to an end. Jesus said, unless a man is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The new birth is the means of gaining access to the kingdom.
11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a( Saviour,) which is Christ the Lord. Bruce may i ask what type church you attend or to be more fair how do you see the plan of salvation?

Why did you post that passage. I said that saving souls was part of the reason, however, Jesus said why He came.

43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent. (Luk 4:43 KJV)

 

[Blev]

In the context of 1 Cor 13 the knowledge is supernatural knowledge, it goes along with prophecy. It's not a persons knowledge that Paul is addressing. He says we know in part. What did he know in part?

What do you think he only knows in part? Spiritual knowledge? Does anyone know everything? No.

Some think they do tho

 

[Blev]

CyberJosh I was thinking last night you make some good points. :D
Bless you for sharing with us!

 

[Deborah13]

That's funny, you would think we would see all of this on the news...

I believe the mind is a powerful thing, I believe his mind overcame his pain, I too believe God answers prayer...

But if you can do what you claim, do what I said, stand in front of a hospital and put them out of business... the Church you attend would not be able to contain all those that come...

You cannot do it....

I know of at least one that hit the news, with a video and several hundred people witnessed it. Dehlia Knox, had been in a car wreak, she loss the use of her legs from I believe a back injury. She was in a wheel chair for 25 yrs. I would see her on a Christian TV show and sometimes she would sing. She got out of the chair that night and took her first steps with help in 25 yrs. Now she is completely restored, she still on the show sometimes and she walks wearing heels to the mic.

Or what about a young man named Peter right here in Colorado Springs. He was in a car accident. His brother was called to the hospital when they found out who to call. They did what they could but he died. His brother called their parents who lived 45 mins away. On the way the father started to grieve but kept praising God saying he knew God had not done this terrible thing. Then he remembered that this son had been prophesied over and that prophecy had not been fulfilled yet. He knew that God would restore His son's life. When they got to the hospital their son had been moved to a holding space until his body could be taken to the morgue. When they saw him he was on a metal cart, a sheet over him, and an ID toe tag was on his toe. He had been pronounced died 5 hours before. I don't know how or what exactly happened but that young man sat straight up on that cart and he is alive today with no damage done to him.
You can scoff all you want to but Jesus heals. He is the same, He has never changed, it was man who changed.
In the church at CORINTH many people where using the gifts, Paul had to straighten them out has to orderly conduct but he never told them to stop. In fact, he encouraged them!
God Bless You

 

[Butch5]

What do you think he only knows in part? Spiritual knowledge? Does anyone know everything? No.

Some think they do tho

What he knew in part is what he is discussing. He said, we know in part, he didn't have a full knowledge. He also said, we prophesy in part. Things were being revealed to the apostles as they went through their ministries. They didn't have the full revelation that God would eventually give them. He give the analogy of growing from a boy to a man, it is a process of maturity. The word "Telios" which is translated perfect in some translations means complete or mature. He was talking about the revelation that they were receiving from God and how that would be a maturing process. One doesn't go from boyhood to manhood instantly it is a process that takes time. This is what Paul was saying about prophecy and knowledge.

 

[Deborah13]

Butch, again we have to look at the time it was said and who it was said to...

The "He" in the "He that believeth on me" is the Antecedent, to find the "He" we go back to the earlier noun or pronoun which happens to be Philip (An Apostle), it was the Apostles that would do greater works, and what was the greater works?
Starting from the day of Pentecost how many souls were saved? did that happen while Christ was on earth?

Acts 2:41 (KJV)
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 4:4 (KJV)
4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Now your just blowin' smoke. If you want to say He was talking to Philip or about Philip this would not even make sense, even with your parts of speech, speech.

John 14:9-12

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 12 Truly, truly, I say to you (Phillip), he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

If He were speaking about Phillip it would read as such:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, YOU who believes in Me...."
Cross references:

1. John 14:9 : John 1:14; 12:45; Col 1:15; Heb 1:3
2. John 14:10 : John 10:38; 14:11, 20
3. John 14:10 : John 5:19; 14:24
4. John 14:11 : John 10:38; 14:10, 20
5. John 14:11 : John 5:36
6. John 14:12 : John 4:37f; 5:20
7. John 14:12 : John 7:33; 14:28

 

[Blev]

my my Mom was healed of Cancer there was no sign of cancer about half way through her chemo. come visit me i will introduce to you the parents who had a baby daughter stop breathing completely. at church a lady grabbed her from her MOM prayed over her. breathing restored the D.R could find nothing :yes today she is a mother of 2 a youth pastor wife active in the ministry that is fact not fiction

That's a great testimony of God's miraculous healing power

 

[Blev]

I know of at least one that hit the news, with a video and several hundred people witnessed it. Dehlia Knox, had been in a car wreak, she loss the use of her legs from I believe a back injury. She was in a wheel chair for 25 yrs. I would see her on a Christian TV show and sometimes she would sing. She got out of the chair that night and took her first steps with help in 25 yrs. Now she is completely restored, she still on the show sometimes and she walks wearing heels to the mic.

Or what about a young man named Peter right here in Colorado Springs. He was in a car accident. His brother was called to the hospital when they found out who to call. They did what they could but he died. His brother called their parents who lived 45 mins away. On the way the father started to grieve but kept praising God saying he knew God had not done this terrible thing. Then he remembered that this son had been prophesied over and that prophecy had not been fulfilled yet. He knew that God would restore His son's life. When they got to the hospital their son had been moved to a holding space until his body could be taken to the morgue. When they saw him he was on a metal cart, a sheet over him, and an ID toe tag was on his toe. He had been pronounced died 5 hours before. I don't know how or what exactly happened but that young man sat straight up on that cart and he is alive today with no damage done to him.

All glory be to God!

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

I'm not sure that the "real" reason Christ came was to save souls. I agree that was a part of the reason He came. However, Jesus said He had come to preach the gospel of the kingdom. I think Christians get tunnel vision with the issue of salvation. The message of God is much bigger than just man’s salvation. The new birth is a means to an end. Jesus said, unless a man is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The new birth is the means of gaining access to the kingdom.

Remember the prayer, "Let your kingdom come here on earth as it is in heaven, let your will be done?" His kingdom is here if we allow His will to rule in our lives. If not then it won't be. Though I believe what you are trying to say is that salvation is the entrance to this Kingdom. Now if that's the case, then we agree on atleast that. Jesus came to bridge the gap for us and God, so that we might know Him and have a personal relationship with Him. Glory to God, we've been invited into the trinity because the Holy Spirit lives inside of us!

I addressed most of those, funny I see nothing, not one scripture from you, nothing but opinion...

Can "you" show me one scripture that shows that "perfect" is not the law of Christ.

You've actually addressed none of those. The only one you go back to is this "perfect". Like Paul, I don't preach the Gospel with wisdom of words, but I preach it with faith and see God do His thing. The videos I posted aren't enough for you? I must have paid those kids to lie too. Oh, I probably pinched them all too so that the whole room would all cry at once!

It doesn't matter what verse you read as your not reading your Bible with God in mind. God uses the Holy Spirit to teach us the Scriptures, not to separate us. He says not to dispute small matters either. Frankly, this isn't a small matter but a big one. Many of His people are falling into the trap of the enemy.

"1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men." 2nd Tim 3:1-9

Are the last days over with yet? No, because we're still here on earth.

Josh I was thinking last night what a great thread this is. :D
Bless you for sharing with us!

Justin? Josh's thread is basically the same thing I was jumping in and out of that one too.

 

[cyberjosh]

But I don't understand your response. My point was that it is error to equate what Psalms 19:7 is saying with what Paul is saying. There simply is no basis for equating what is said between two or more verses just because a similar or same word is used.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, Free. Thank you for repeating it!

If one was to be consistent with this "plug and play" use of taking any word with its particular meaning within its own immediate context and then trying to apply that meaning to any and every other instance of that word in the whole Bible with their own independent, different, and separate contexts you would get some very strange doctrines indeed. You would have to pick up a concordance and identify every use of that word in all of Scripture and then just pick one (simply as you please) to apply it. Since it does not occur within the immediate context of 1 Corinthians 13 one cannot just willy-nilly apply Psalm 19:7 to it because it contains the same word.

Please note that this oh-so-obviously does not mean that Free and I are saying that the Law of the Lord is not perfect (that is not the objection!!!), just that that particular verse in Psalm 19:7 has nothing to do with the 'perfect' mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13. How do we know? Because 1 Corinthians 13 does not indicate that the Law of the Lord is being spoken about. Very simple. Little children in Sunday school class would understand that concept.

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Where is your scripture to back that up?

I gave you scripture that shows "the law of the Lord is perfect", are you saying the "law of Christ" is not perfect?

Putting words in others' mouth is not a good practice, unless of course one simply misunderstands what the other is saying (as it seems I had a misunderstanding of what you said earlier). But hopefully clarification will be our friend. See my post right above this that clearly states this is not what either Free or I are saying.

Prove to me Paul is not talking about the "law of Christ" when he used the same word in the New Testament that was used in the Old.

Since Paul does not say that he is talking about the Law of the Lord then the burden of proof is on you to show that the Law of the Lord is indeed what he meant by using the simple word 'perfect'. This is not complicated.

Whats more serious exegetical error, saying its not? or showing its not?

It is a fair question to also ask: What would avoid any exegetical error: Saying that it is? Or showing that it is?

I used scripture, all anyone has given me is opinion.

Yes, you used "a Scripture/verse", but not Scripture from the actual context or that is related to it directly in any way.

Let me show you the error of just using any Scripture with a word in it and applying its meaning to another Scripture with the same word in it. Observe the two Scriptures:

"Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I resisted him to the face, because he stood condemned." (Galatians 2:11)

If I were to take your logic of just using a word from one verse and applying it to another verse in order to try to discern its doctrinal meaning I could therefore say that since Paul resisted Peter because of his error that Peter must therefore be the Devil. And then I could pull in all kinds of other irrelevant coincidences of language to support my argument like "he stood condemned" and say that since Satan is also condemned to the Lake of Fire that this is additional evidence that Peter is Satan. And then, what's more, I could quote, "Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan!" (Matthew 16:23). And voila, I have irrefutably proven that Peter is Satan himself!

The two words in the different verses have nothing to do with one another, and the burden would certainly be on me to prove that they do.

That same burden of proof is on you to show that Paul's use of the word "perfect" is a reference to the Law of the Lord.

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

Let me show you the error of just using any Scripture with a word in it and applying its meaning to another Scripture with the same word in it.

"Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I resisted him to the face, because he stood condemned." (Galatians 2:11)

If I were to take your logic of just using a word from one verse and applying it to another verse in order to try to discern its doctrinal meaning I could therefore say that since Paul resisted Peter because of his error that Peter must therefore be the Devil. And then I could pull all kinds of other irrelevant coincidences of language like "he stood condemned" and say that since Satan is also condemned to the Lake of Fire this is additional evidence that Peter is Satan. And then, what's more, I could quote, "Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan!" (Matthew 16:23). And voila, I have irrefutably proven that Peter is Satan himself!

The two words in the different verses have nothing to do with one another, and the burden would certainly be on me to prove that they do.

:amen Well said.

Another verse "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." Matt 18:20

We would assume this is saying that if we pray together, that Jesus is there. Praise God! Well wait a second... The verse has been misused many times by Christians. Its referring to reconciling with your brother, that God is there.

If we are not gathered together, does that mean God isn't there. Absolutely not! We've just been misquoting this verse for years! Let's not continue once we know the truth!

 

[Blev]

Justin? Josh's thread is basically the same thing I was jumping in and out of that one too.

I was reading some good points CyberJosh made for your case, and probably should have quoted them but didn't. I was on his thread late last night it was so long. Still haven't caught up. LOL . Then came over here. With both of you on both threads, talking about similar subjects, yet another aspect.I got alittle confused where I was

You're doing a good job too . Great testimonies BTW that I read. Interesting subjects indeed!

 

[Blev]

I can show you my fruit. You can ask the 100+ people who've been healed. Ask them if God still does miracles and they'll tell you.



http://justingilpin.com/prayer-for-healing

When you have been healed by the power of God no one can tell you that you were not healed, you KNOW you were I have been too and so have people I know for a fact.

If people go to a church that doesn't believe, then of course they wont see miracles. Jesus said believe. He doesn't work in an atmosphere of unbelief.

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

I was reading some good points CyberJosh made for your case, and probably should have quoted them but didn't. I was on his thread late last night it was so long. Still haven't caught up. LOL . Then came over here. With both of you on both threads, talking about similar subjects, yet another aspect.I got alittle confused where I was

You're doing a good job too . Great testimonies BTW that I read. Interesting subjects indeed!

Haha, I completely understand. I did that the other day. Though I woke up real early and knew better to get on the computer at 3am. Should have just went to the restroom and back to bed haha.

I'm very blessed to have so many testimonies to share. So far I've only shared other people's testimonies I've seen, not my own

When you have been healed by the power of God no one can tell you that you were not healed, you KNOW you were I have been too and so have people I know for a fact.

If people go to a church that doesn't believe, then of course they wont see miracles. Jesus said believe. He doesn't work in an atmosphere of unbelief.

Your right, I think those who are commenting are beginning to realize you can't tell somebody they haven't been healed by some mind trick. We know it was God

 

[Mitspa]

Putting words in others' mouth is not a good practice, unless of course one simply misunderstands what the other is saying (as it seems I had a misunderstanding of what you said earlier). But hopefully clarification will be our friend. See my post right above this that clearly states this is not what either Free or I are saying.



Since Paul does not say that he is talking about the Law of the Lord then the burden of proof is on you to show that the Law of the Lord is indeed what he meant by using the simple word 'perfect'. This is not complicated.



It is a fair question to also ask: What would avoid any exegetical error: Saying that it is? Or showing that it is?



Yes, you used "a Scripture/verse", but not Scripture from the actual context or that is related to it directly in any way.

Let me show you the error of just using any Scripture with a word in it and applying its meaning to another Scripture with the same word in it. Observe the two Scriptures:

"Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I resisted him to the face, because he stood condemned." (Galatians 2:11)

If I were to take your logic of just using a word from one verse and applying it to another verse in order to try to discern its doctrinal meaning I could therefore say that since Paul resisted Peter because of his error that Peter must therefore be the Devil. And then I could pull in all kinds of other irrelevant coincidences of language to support my argument like "he stood condemned" and say that since Satan is also condemned to the Lake of Fire that this is additional evidence that Peter is Satan. And then, what's more, I could quote, "Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan!" (Matthew 16:23). And voila, I have irrefutably proven that Peter is Satan himself!

The two words in the different verses have nothing to do with one another, and the burden would certainly be on me to prove that they do.

That same burden of proof is on you to show that Paul's use of the word "perfect" is a reference to the Law of the Lord.

Cyberjosh, been watching you defend the faith first delivered to the saints. You show great wisdom and patience, Glad to see you and some others on the forum who love Christ and trust ALL His Words.

God Bless-Mitspa

 

[ezra]

I'm not sure that the "real" reason Christ came was to save souls. I agree that was a part of the reason He came. However, Jesus said He had come to preach the gospel of the kingdom. I think Christians get tunnel vision with the issue of salvation. The message of God is much bigger than just man’s salvation. The new birth is a means to an end. Jesus said, unless a man is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The new birth is the means of gaining access to the kingdom.

exactly how do you view the plan of salvation?