Erroneous additons to the Word of God !

[Sinthesis]

To reiterate that the erroneous additon to the Word of God , that Jesus went down to preach and witness to those spirits in prison is erroneous. This would mean that Jesus was not dead.

Who said that the soul of Jesus died?

Our souls live forever. The body of Jesus died and was resurrected.


So I gather from your post that you believe anything in the bible that contradicts your personal dogma is an erroneous addition? Is this correct?

Hi

You can believe whatever you please. These are your beliefs. I line my beliefs up with the scriptures...

Unless the scriptures contradict your preconceived notions, in which case you scream 'BLOODY ERROR' and squirm around trying to maintain a grip on the falsehoods you hold so dear.

It's like someone filling out a SUDOKU puzzle and repeatedly proclaiming that the 'given' numbers must be misprints, because they conflict with erroneously filled in answers that the player fools himself into believing are true.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi

You can believe whatever you please. These are your beliefs. I line my beliefs up with the scriptures... [/quote]
Unless the scriptures contradict your preconceived notions, in which case you scream 'BLOODY ERROR' and squirm around trying to maintain a grip on the falsehoods you hold so dear.

It's like someone filling out a SUDOKU puzzle and repeatedly proclaiming that the 'given' numbers must be misprints, because they conflict with erroneously filled in answers that the player fools himself into believing are true. [/quote]


Hi there

I know of three Christian denominations which have their own bible translations by which they live their faith by. These paticular bible translations have a certain amount of changes and additions to them that are not even in any way similar to our KJV or NKJ versions.

Most of our translations have come about , from the late 1500's on. Don't you think it is naive of us to think that the translators changed or added their own beliefs into the translations we now read, from their own beliefs from those days and times ? And let us not forget, that the greek text from which they were taken from are nothing but copies of copies of copies of copies. And that throughout the many years, that they as well didn't add certain things of their own beliefs into the copies of the greek texts ?

Just how niave are we, or have we become ?

 

[chestertonrules]

The sole (not soul :yes ) purpose of this thread is to expose the erroneous additons within our translations.

Verse 19 is an addition to the holy scriptures, thus it is not holy/pure

Prove it.

 

[Mysteryman]

The sole (not soul :yes ) purpose of this thread is to expose the erroneous additons within our translations.

Verse 19 is an addition to the holy scriptures, thus it is not holy/pure

Prove it.

Hi C

There is no way in which I can prove it. You will have to study the scriptures for yourself. I can't even prove that there is a God, and I know for sure that there is a God. And it is not because the bible tells us this. It is because of the Spirit in my heart crying Abba Father.

Way too many people but their faith in what they read in their translations. God has put his epistle within our hearts, and not on stone nor is it written with ink on paper.

What I have shown you, and others, you will have to make up your own minds. I do know that the scriptures can not contradict themselves. Anything that has been added by man does indeed contradict the consistency that is throughout scripture.

Bless - IN Christ - MM

 

[Mysteryman]

The sole (not soul :yes ) purpose of this thread is to expose the erroneous additons within our translations.

Verse 19 is an addition to the holy scriptures, thus it is not holy/pure

Prove it.

Hi C

May I also add, that you can not even call Jesus Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.

Bless

 

[francisdesales]

Quote francis: "you are confused on the makeup of man, it is not "body, soul, and spirit".


Hi francis

To be honest, after this comment you just made, I am at a loss for words . If this is where you beliefs have taken you . I would only try and encourage you to study the scriptures . Your statement above is just not true !

Oh, thanks for the encouragement. Maybe you should take your own advice...?

Paul's useage of "spirit" in regards to man is the work of the Holy Spirit within us. It is not a part of our original nature, but is supernatural grace added to our nature... The supernatural life within us is known as "spirit", as in "flesh vs spirit" that Paul often uses. This spirit is part of our soul, since the spirit is now PART OF our intellect, knowledge, will and memories. They are made holy by this grace within us.

Since the soul is simple and consists of no parts, the spirit is analogous with the soul - they serve the same purpose, but now, the soul, moved by the Holy Spirit and grace, now has another principle, God Himself...

Thus, you are confused by the references in 1 Thess and Eph. Man is flesh and spirit/soul. Jesus mentions man's TWO PARTS when He says we are to fear the one who can kill flesh and soul in hell (which, of course, is another proof that you are incorrect, because upon the first death, our soul remains - otherwise, why "fear" what God COULD do if EVERYONE is already subject to this death of the soul???

Again, Scriptures prove you wrong, but knowing your "M.O.", we won't hear from you on this, either. Still awaiting for responses to other points I made days ago, such as 1 Peter 3 and your definition from Scriptures on how the spirit and soul of man differ... As you attempt to define that difference, you'll find the two are quite nearly the same thing - the spirit is part of our soul as we are born from above.

Regards

 

[nadab]

redo post

 

[nadab]

Also, Jesus said clearly that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are living, not dead, not to mention the fact that Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus. God is the God of the living, not the dead.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are still awaiting a resurrection from the dead, these having died more than seventeen hundred years before Jesus came to the earth as the Messiah in 29 C.E. In speaking with Nicodemus, Jesus told him that "no man has ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man."(John 3:13) The apostle Paul wrote that "the way into the holy place (is) by the blood of Jesus, which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh."(Heb 10:19, 20)

Hence, no righteous person had ascended to heaven before Jesus, for he is called the "firstborn from the dead" to heavenly life.(Col 1:18; Rev 1:5) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, though dead, are seen by God as "all living to him"(Luke 20:38), for these are in God's memory for their future resurrection during the "thousand year" reign of Christ Jesus.(Rev 20:5).

He is, indeed, the God of the living, not the dead.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not ascend into heaven before Jesus. They waited in Sheol (as per Luke 16) until Jesus was resurrected. They were saved by grace through faith just as we are.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

They are saved exactly like we are by grace through faith.
They are part of the great cloud of witnesses with the Lord right now.
[quote="Matthew 8:11":3p7abjq4] And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

The Holy Spirit was not yet made "manifest". That does not say He was not yet given.

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Grace was fully operational in the OT and the method of salvation was the same as it is for us.

If the Holy Spirit does not indwell a person, that means they are still spiritually dead and no spiritually dead person can have any faith toward God because they are spiritually dead.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

No unbeliever can ever be righteous without salvation. Could a man be spiritually dead and sacrifice his only son of promise on God’s commands?

And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

And of Joseph...

And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?

See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: {3} And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

This work was finished from the foundation of the world....a place has been prepared for the saints from the foundation of the world.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

[/quote:3p7abjq4]

If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have been resurrected right after Jesus, these would have preceded those chosen for the heavenly calling. However, this is not so, for those selected as "kings and priests" take part in the "earlier resurrection" (Literally, “out-resurrection.†Greek, e·xa·na´sta·sin) that the apostle Paul spoke of at Philippians 3:11 and called the "first resurrection" at Revelation 20:5.

Hence, there are those resurrected first, whom the apostle Paul said that those "in the Christ (those chosen by God for the "heavenly calling", Heb 3:1) all will be made alive. But each one in his rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those belong to the Christ during his presence."(1 Cor 15:22, 23, "presence", Greek pa·rou·si´as) Those selected by God to serve as "kings and priests" in God's kingdom are resurrected first ("during Jesus presence") before those that are the ' meek ones that will inherit the earth.'(Matt 5:5, Ps 37:11, 29)

The Bible distinguishes between those who are "called and chosen" that partake in the "first resurrection", becoming a "kingdom, priests" (Rev 1:6) and those that are not selected as part of the "little flock" that are members of the "kingdom."(Luke 12:32)

For example, David is mentioned in the Bible 1172 times, more than either Moses (875 times) or Abraham (263 times).Yet the apostle Peter told the Jews on the day of Pentecost, that "the family head David, that he both deceased and was buried and his tomb is among us today....Actually David did not ascend to the heavens."(Acts 2:29, 34) Thus, David is still in the grave, awaiting a resurrection from the dead, just as a "great cloud of witnesses"(Heb 12:1) that died before Jesus opened the way to heavenly life.(Heb 10:19)

Also, John the Baptist, though recognized by Jesus as "far more than a prophet" (Matt 11:10), did not ascend to heaven, for Jesus said: "Truly I say to you people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is."(Matt 11:11)

He too is awaiting a resurrection from the dead that Jesus spoke of at John 5:28, 29, saying: "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs ("memorial tombs" Greek mne·mei´on, not "graves" Greek taphos) will hear his voice and come out."

Hence, at God's appointed time during the "thousand year" reign of Jesus Christ (Rev 20:6, "the hour (that) is coming"), will the "memorial tombs" (and graves) be emptied, those in God's memory (or those "living to him", Luke 20:38), including Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, for Revelation 20:13 says that "death and Hades ("hell" King James Bible) gave up those dead in them."

 

[glorydaz]

If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have been resurrected right after Jesus, these would have preceded those chosen for the heavenly calling. However, this is not so, for those selected as "kings and priests" take part in the "earlier resurrection" (Literally, “out-resurrection.†Greek, e·xa·na´sta·sin) that the apostle Paul spoke of at Philippians 3:11 and called the "first resurrection" at Revelation 20:5.

Resurrection is the raising of the body. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have not had their bodies resurrected yet, but they are with the Lord nonetheless. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. It becomes a question of where the spirit goes at death. The OT saints had to wait until Christ was raised from the dead and then they were raised in spirit to await the resurrection of their bodies at our Lord's second coming.

 

[glorydaz]

Quote glorydaz: "Is this one of those "additions by men" that you claim shouldn't be in the Bible?
Ephesians 4:8-10 wrote:
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Hi glorydaz

Notice the parenthesis ? The translators wanted you to understand that they added this phrase, and that it was not within the text that the translation was taken from.

Who told you that?

I'll go with this explanation.....in other words, Paul used them in the same way we use them today.

What Paul is explaining in this "parenthetical" section (verses 8-10) using an OT quotations is how Christ was enabled in the divine plan of God to give the gift described in Ephesians 4:7. Paul wants the saints to know that although the gift is free, there was a great cost that had to be paid to make this bestowal of grace available. And so Paul proceeds to tie the giving of gifts to the triumphant ascension of Christ. He explains that it is Christ's exaltation to the right hand of His Father that makes possible for Him to give gifts to men. And so Paul turn to Psalm 68:18 to illustrate beautifully what Christ did for us.

There's no parenthesis is this verse...

1 Peter 3:18-20 wrote:
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz:

One thing that I believe is essential in our conversation with one another is this word "soul"

Our bodies do not need saving, but our souls do need saving.

As I said before , when our body dies our soul dies as well and goes to the grave.

Salvation is based upon saving a soul from death - James 5:20 - "Let him know that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hid a multitude of sins"

I Peter 1:9 - "Receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls"

Consider these verses

Bless

Yes, it is the soul that sins. Death for the soul that sins comes at the judgment when hades is thrown into the lake of fire (the soul of the sinner waits in hades until the judgment).

The body goes to the grave until the resurrection...

The soul of the believer waits with the Lord in Paradise until the he stands before the judgment seat of Christ where rewards are given.

 

[Mysteryman]

When your name is called, to call you out of the grave, your memory (soul) is being raised from the dead. Such was the case with Lazarus. Lazarus come forth. < This example given to us, shows us by example, that the soul (memory) is dead,and is being raised from the dead. A body without a soul is just dust. Lazarus soul did not go to heaven ! His soul was dead and in the grave with his body !

When Christ comes back, he is not coming for the OT saints. He is coming back for the church, which is his body. The head and the body will unite to become one.

To say that after the resurrection of Jesus Christ that all those that lived prior are now allowed to go to heaven is absurd. They are still dead. A resurrection needs to take place first . And there are two resurrections within the Word of God.

Paradise is future, and those who think that it is something else, have only become deceived. The Word of God is written from Paradise unto Paradise. The Paradise of God is within the New Earth, which is also called the third earth. And it is also called the New Jerusalem. The tree of life was within the first paradise and there is also the tree of life within the second paradise. But this is all future ! There were rivers in the first paradise, and there will be waters of life in the second paradise.

The soul is what needs saving. The soul will be left in the grave until one of the two resurrections.

We are warned within scripture of those who claim that the resurrection has already come to pass.

There is an order with God and this order is given in I Corinth. 15:23 1st Christ, then they that are Christ's (the church) at his coming. Then verse 24 at the "end", which we can pick up the understanding in Rev. 20:12 & 13. When they hear their name, they will get up from the dead. This means that their soul rises from the dead. Those of this second resurrection will be raised incorruptible body and soul. As their soul is in the grave with them.

Also, when Christ died, his soul died. Just before his death, he said "I commend my spirit into your hands Father" < Not his soul, but his spirit. His soul died. His soul needed to be raised from the dead. If his soul did not die, then we were not redeemed from death unto life !

When a soul dies, it has no memory, and can not preach to spirits in prison. It is that simple people !

God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed the breath of life into man, and man became a living soul. When man dies, his soul dies, and needs to be resurrected from the dead. At this time only Jesus Christ has been raised from the dead, for he is the first fruits. The church is next, in that order ! As the scriptures tell us the order.

Bless - IN Christ - MM

 

[francisdesales]

When your name is called, to call you out of the grave, ...

More preaching nonsense...

This is an apologetic thread. Discussions are meant to be two-way. We don't want to hear your sermons, especially if you cannot address the numerous errors found with your thinking. Ignoring them don't make them go away. It only proves you are in denial.

Can you actually address Sacred Scriptures already pointed out?

 

[Mysteryman]

When your name is called, to call you out of the grave, ...

More preaching nonsense...

This is an apologetic thread. Discussions are meant to be two-way. We don't want to hear your sermons, especially if you cannot address the numerous errors found with your thinking. Ignoring them don't make them go away. It only proves you are in denial.

Can you actually address Sacred Scriptures already pointed out?

Hi

I will not repeat myself , as it is a lost cause ! I have addressed all those verses. I used scripture to show where the soul goes and why. I will not waste my time repeating that which has already been documented with scripture ! If you look back on the things I have already share with you, but also with others, you will see that I indeed did document with scripture all of my beliefs.

The only nonesense that I have noticed are all those who do not document their comments, such is yourself and glorydaz. As well as a few others, I might add.

You claim that your soul goes to heaven and just your body goes to the grave. When are "you" going to document such a comment ?

 

[glorydaz]

Hi

I will not repeat myself , as it is a lost cause ! I have addressed all those verses. I used scripture to show where the soul goes and why. I will not waste my time repeating that which has already been documented with scripture ! If you look back on the things I have already share with you, but also with others, you will see that I indeed did document with scripture all of my beliefs.

The only nonesense that I have noticed are all those who do not document their comments, such is yourself and glorydaz. As well as a few others, I might add.

You claim that your soul goes to heaven and just your body goes to the grave. When are "you" going to document such a comment ?

Yes, you certainly do repeat yourself. And the documentation we provide...you claim is just additions of men. It works out so well when the scripture that refutes what you claim can just be tossed aside.

You've managed to "explain away" Luke 16, the saints being raised at Christ's resurrection, Christ's descent into Hades, the thief on the cross going to Paradise, Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration, souls "departing" from the body, souls crying out in Rev. and probably a few more that have slipped my mind. As long as you're comfortable tossing out scripture, there is no point in having discussions with you, is there? ;)

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi

I will not repeat myself , as it is a lost cause ! I have addressed all those verses. I used scripture to show where the soul goes and why. I will not waste my time repeating that which has already been documented with scripture ! If you look back on the things I have already share with you, but also with others, you will see that I indeed did document with scripture all of my beliefs.

The only nonesense that I have noticed are all those who do not document their comments, such is yourself and glorydaz. As well as a few others, I might add.

You claim that your soul goes to heaven and just your body goes to the grave. When are "you" going to document such a comment ?

Yes, you certainly do repeat yourself. And the documentation we provide...you claim is just additions of men. It works out so well when the scripture that refutes what you claim can just be tossed aside.

You've managed to "explain away" Luke 16, the saints being raised at Christ's resurrection, Christ's descent into Hades, the thief on the cross going to Paradise, Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration, souls "departing" from the body, souls crying out in Rev. and probably a few more that have slipped my mind. As long as you're comfortable tossing out scripture, there is no point in having discussions with you, is there? ;)

Hi glorydaz

A discussion or a debate, either one is just fine with me. But if your trying to say that you need to convert me to your way of thinking. Well that is another issue altogether !

Some things within scripture have been added by man, while others are just totally misunderstood. I am dealing with both within this thread.

The things that are misunderstood, would be like your belief that your soul goes to heaven when you die. I know you have brought certain scriptures that you feel that back up your stance . But I also refuted them already. That is, I used scripture to explain them away.

If you feel that there is nothing more to add or explain, then this is your choice. But it is also your choice if you feel you need to explain something further. I am still waiting for you to explain when you die, that your soul goes to heaven. I know the Word talks about the spirit of man going back to God, and we have discussed this already. But you still have not shown any scripture that shows your soul all by itself , going to heaven without a body and just your soul being in heaven. Also you have constantly used the word "paradise" in the wrong way. Again, you assume we are to just take your word for it, that paradise is the grave. Again you have not shown any scirptural references that can substanciate this false belief. < Maybe , just maybe you would like to tackle this one first ?

 

[francisdesales]

Hi

I will not repeat myself , as it is a lost cause !

I agree, your cause is lost, and you would bore us by repeating it again...

I have addressed all those verses.

No you didn't. You ignored much of what I wrote about, or just flat out denied it with the mantra "the soul dies with the body in the grave".

The only nonesense that I have noticed are all those who do not document their comments...

Look at your replies to me and my immediately preceeding post. Note that you hardly address anything I said...

You claim that your soul goes to heaven and just your body goes to the grave. When are "you" going to document such a comment ?

How about Scriptures and Tradition of the past 2000 years and more, if you count Judaism immediately preceding the Incarnation.

Tell you what. Why don't you go to a cemetry and dig up a body. See if you can find a soul there, as well, since you claim they both die. Take a picture of the dead soul laying there for me, will you???



then, we'll have "documented your comments".

 

[francisdesales]

You've managed to "explain away" Luke 16, the saints being raised at Christ's resurrection, Christ's descent into Hades, the thief on the cross going to Paradise, Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration, souls "departing" from the body, souls crying out in Rev. and probably a few more that have slipped my mind. As long as you're comfortable tossing out scripture, there is no point in having discussions with you, is there? ;)

Actually, in several of those, he doesn't even comment on. How many times has 1 Peter 3 been repeated here, by at least three different people,(and me, several times) - and how many comments has he posted on it? I haven't seen any yet, maybe I just missed it...?

The "explaining away" of Luke 16 wasn't even that. How does a dead soul respond, as the rich man??? No comment there, just a wish and a prayer that no one would figure out his silly sidestep of an obvious thing - something dead cannot respond or hope or plead.

Jesus says we need not be fearful of the soul dying upon ordinary death - only the "ONE" in heaven can do that...

We are dealing with someone who refuses to admit the "greatest of all lies" is just more truth. Who wants to admit such a gaffe?

Regards

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz

A discussion or a debate, either one is just fine with me. But if your trying to say that you need to convert me to your way of thinking. Well that is another issue altogether !

Some things within scripture have been added by man, while others are just totally misunderstood. I am dealing with both within this thread.

The things that are misunderstood, would be like your belief that your soul goes to heaven when you die. I know you have brought certain scriptures that you feel that back up your stance . But I also refuted them already. That is, I used scripture to explain them away.

If you feel that there is nothing more to add or explain, then this is your choice. But it is also your choice if you feel you need to explain something further. I am still waiting for you to explain when you die, that your soul goes to heaven. I know the Word talks about the spirit of man going back to God, and we have discussed this already. But you still have not shown any scripture that shows your soul all by itself , going to heaven without a body and just your soul being in heaven. Also you have constantly used the word "paradise" in the wrong way. Again, you assume we are to just take your word for it, that paradise is the grave. Again you have not shown any scirptural references that can substanciate this false belief. < Maybe , just maybe you would like to tackle this one first ?

I don't expect, or care, whether I convince you of anything. I'm telling you what I, and many other Christians, see from the Word of God. It's kind of hard to discuss something with you when you continue to make statements that claim I'm saying things I have never said...nor do I believe. This for instance...

But you still have not shown any scripture that shows your soul all by itself , going to heaven without a body and just your soul being in heaven.

The soul doesn't go anywhere by itself. It leaves the body at death...departs.
The spirit and soul go to be with the Lord to wait for the resurrection of the body.
So before we talk about what that place of waiting is called, the life or death of the soul must be determined. You admit it's the soul that needs to be saved because it's the soul that sins. Correct?

The perfect example is Luke 16, but you claim it's a parable even though it is like no other parable Jesus gave...he never gave names to people in parables, and he would be lying and misleading to claim people could converse across the divide between where the righteous and unrighteous wait.

You seem to avoid addressing Moses...who was died and buried and yet appeared and spoke. He stands there in some form, talking to Jesus, long before the resurrection on the Last Day. Either Moses’ body was raised early, which is not supported by scripture, or his soul appeared in visible form on the Mount of Transfiguration.

You seem to ignore this, as well....We see John, "caught up", somewhere....I believe that's the same place the souls of believers wait until the resurrection. He sees a vision of the souls of martyred Christians under the altar. The resurrection hasn't happened yet, so these souls are waiting.

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

You also don't like to talk about Paul saying to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
ABSENT...how can one be absent with the body and yet be PRESENT with the Lord.
How can it be FAR BETTER if we're lying dead in a grave knowing nothing? The body knows nothing, but the soul (who we are as a person) is in a far better place.

So, instead of telling me I'm "misunderstanding"...address the issue and stop pontificating. ;)

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote francis: "How about Scriptures and Tradition of the past 2000 years and more, if you count Judaism immediately preceding the Incarnation.

Tell you what. Why don't you go to a cemetry and dig up a body. See if you can find a soul there, as well, since you claim they both die. Take a picture of the dead soul laying there for me, will you???"


Hi francis

Sorry if you are board, but that seems to be your problem, not mine.

Lets address your comment about "tradition" of the past 2000 years. I am sure you must be speaking of the traditions of men over the past 2000 years, because tradtions have nothing to do with scriptural truth !

Take a picture of a soul ? Is this just a way that you believe to be stand up comic ? Because it was indeed funny . :D

Do you even know what a soul is ? Trust me, I am curious . :help