Bible Study FAITH, And the Knowledge of God's Righteousness

[Jim Parker]

I'm not saying God created evil.
I just wonder where it comes from.

Wondering

I believe it comes from the desire of man to be a god. That was the original temptation with which the devil beguiled Eve. (Gen 3:5)
Wanting to be gods, man seeks to sustain himself with everything that is necessary for life. The gives rise to coveteousness and to greed and to envy and to theft and to murder and to all other evils.

God does want us to be God, nut not by our own devices, rather, by grace through the process of being united to Him as the bride (one flesh with) of Christ. (Eph 5:31-32)
We are to become God by grace, not by nature, but by being "in Christ."
We are to be so "full" of the Trinity, that wherever we are, God's presence is manifest.

The devil suggested to Eve that she and Adam could do that without God's help; that they could be gods by changing their nature through their own efforts. That was the lie. (It was picked up by Joseph Smith when he invented Mormonism.) There is only one Who is God by nature.

The "nature" or "essence of God" is divinity. The nature of man is creature.
Jesus combined the divine nature with man's created nature in order that we might be like Him; that we might also be a race of God-bearing human beings.
When we are fully saved, at the coming of Christ, what we shall be will be fully revealed. (Ro 8:16-21)

Until then, it is up to us to choose good and shun evil.


jim

 

[Jim Parker]

but isn't the serpent evil because he chose disobedience himself?

Yes.
Satan also has free will. (or had - maybe he's lost it by choosing pure evil)

iakov the fool

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe it comes from the desire of man to be a god. That was the original temptation with which the devil beguiled Eve. (Gen 3:5)
Wanting to be gods, man seeks to sustain himself with everything that is necessary for life. The gives rise to coveteousness and to greed and to envy and to theft and to murder and to all other evils.

God does want us to be God, nut not by our own devices, rather, by grace through the process of being united to Him as the bride (one flesh with) of Christ. (Eph 5:31-32)
We are to become God by grace, not by nature, but by being "in Christ."
We are to be so "full" of the Trinity, that wherever we are, God's presence is manifest.

The devil suggested to Eve that she and Adam could do that without God's help; that they could be gods by changing their nature through their own efforts. That was the lie. (It was picked up by Joseph Smith when he invented Mormonism.) There is only one Who is God by nature.

The "nature" or "essence of God" is divinity. The nature of man is creature.
Jesus combined the divine nature with man's created nature in order that we might be like Him; that we might also be a race of God-bearing human beings.
When we are fully saved, at the coming of Christ, what we shall be will be fully revealed. (Ro 8:16-21)

Until then, it is up to us to choose good and shun evil.


jim

Jim
All you say is perfect in explaining salvation economy.
But it does not explain evil.

Actually, those on these forums who are able to accept that God created evil because of His sovereignty have it easy.

I could not serve such a God and so am left with the unresolved problem in Christianity.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes.
Satan also has free will. (or had - maybe he's lost it by choosing pure evil)

iakov the fool

Right...
No free will for him.

...

 

[Jim Parker]

But it does not explain evil.

Evil is simply the potential to obey or disobey God.
To be like God we had to have free will.
To have free will there had to be choices.
The choices are to love God or to love ourselves.

jim

 

[GodsGrace]

so evil is a condition set about by disobedience and that condition came into existence the second God created any being with freedom of choice?

No Dan
Freedom of choice does not create evil.
Evil is a power unto itself.
If we have a choice it means evil exists.

So let me ask you this:
Do you believe God created evil, as some here do?

 

[GodsGrace]

Evil is simply the potential to obey or disobey God.
To be like God we had to have free will.
To have free will there had to be choices.
The choices are to love God or to love ourselves.

jim

Evil is not simply the potential to obey or disobey God.
Too easy.
Is evil not also in nature?
Romans 8:21-22

Evil is in all.

..

 

[daninthelionsden]

No Dan
Freedom of choice does not create evil.
Evil is a power unto itself.
If we have a choice it means evil exists.

So let me ask you this:
Do you believe God created evil, as some here do?

I believe evil is wherever God is not. Did God create the anti-God? I dunno

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe evil is wherever God is not. Did God create the anti-God? I dunno

So you believe, as many do, that evil is the absence of good,
Dark is the absence of light, etc.

"I dunno" happens to be the right answer.

No theologian can tell you the origin of evil because any answer is problematic.

As I said, those who are able to accept that God created evil have stopped pondering this question. But they have a big problem too because Jesus taught us that God is love and love is good.
And love is unable to create evil.

Wondering

 

[daninthelionsden]

So you believe, as many do, that evil is the absence of good,
Dark is the absence of light, etc.

"I dunno" happens to be the right answer.

No theologian can tell you the origin of evil because any answer is problematic.

As I said, those who are able to accept that God created evil have stopped pondering this question. But they have a big problem too because Jesus taught us that God is love and love is good.
And love is unable to create evil.

Wondering

IF God created evil then I would say He did so to make us appreciate Him and drive us back to Himself?

 

[GodsGrace]

IF God created evil then I would say He did so to make us appreciate Him and drive us back to Himself?

Could you love a God that created you, and also what harms you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sorry, folks, but this is one of those threads that makes me wanna do this:
View attachment 10770
View attachment 10771

 

[GodsGrace]

Why, you have the answer?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why, you have the answer?

I don't need to post. Parker covered it already.
Evil is not a 'thing' that is created. It's simply a person, or angel, choosing to act contrary to the character of God. God has allowed that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God has allowed the manure of evil to be spread on the earth for the benefit of the crop he is growing there.
It smells bad now, and seems quite the opposite thing one would do to grow tasty fruit and fragrant flowers, but that's because we fail to consider the ultimate outcome.

 

[ezrider]

God has allowed the manure of evil to be spread on the earth for the benefit of the crop he is growing there.
It smells bad now, and seems quite the opposite thing one would do to grow tasty fruit and fragrant flowers, but that's because we fail to consider the ultimate outcome.

I like that. It fits right in with one of my favorite sayings. Why does the grass always appear greener on the other side of the fence? Because there is more bull crap on the other side of the fence.

I grew upon a dairy farm. Know the benefits of manure. Spread it in the fields for fertilizer. All organic.

But that does get to a point, which does bring us back on of the lessons in this thread. We were given the Law so that we might know good and evil, and the knowledge of sin and death. But that is as far as the law extends. We were given FAITH IN CHRIST absent from the law so that we might learn to grow in GRACE and MERCY. If there was no "evil" in the world and there was only good, then how would we ever learn mercy and grace so the we may become perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Perfect in Grace and Mercy.

 

[ezrider]

believe it comes from the desire of man to be a god. That was the original temptation with which the devil beguiled Eve. (Gen 3:5)
Wanting to be gods, man seeks to sustain himself with everything that is necessary for life. The gives rise to coveteousness and to greed and to envy and to theft and to murder and to all other evils.

I agree, that is part of the point of the OP. The temptation and trap with the knowledge of the law and the knowledge of good and evil is the desire to judge and accuse one another, presuming themselves to sit in the seat of Moses.

God does want us to be God, nut not by our own devices, rather, by grace through the process of being united to Him as the bride (one flesh with) of Christ. (Eph 5:31-32)
We are to become God by grace, not by nature, but by being "in Christ."
We are to be so "full" of the Trinity, that wherever we are, God's presence is manifest.

NO.

God does not want us to become GOD. Adam was created a SON of GOD, and fell. Jesus was created a SON of GOD, and was raised. We, by the Spirit are to be a new creation formed in the image of Christ as a SON of GOD. Jesus, walking in the flesh as a man, was the perfect image of the SON of GOD.

 

[ezrider]

Could you love a God that created you, and also what harms you?

What is the predominant method within the Churches to preach the salvation of Christ. Do they not continue to preach the sin, the wrath of God and eternal damnation as their reason for needing Christ? Are they preaching sin? Or are they preaching salvation? Are they preaching a God who will harm you, or one who loves you.

If the Lord created me the way I am, subject to vanity by His reason, then why should I expect Him to become angry or harm me if He created me in this manner. But I suppose as with any parent, if the child won't listen or follow instructions after repeated attempts and a little scolding, then perhaps they might just get angry. Heck, even Paul said to take such as one and turn him over to Satan that his spirit might be saved in the day of judgement.

But what day of judgement? For God has already judged the world according to sin. All have been found guilty. But if they have not followed the commandment unto faith in Christ, then they await the judgement of the second death.

Jesus did not come to save us from Death, that judgement has been passed on to all who walk under the sun. Jesus came that we should not see the Second Death.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

If someone preaches a message of wrath and God's judgement of sin, then they are the servants sin and death, obedient to the works of the law. But if someone preaches a message of salvation, then is their fruit of obedience unto righteousness.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[ezrider]

Which verse says He created evil? Isaiah?
So if you owned a dog, you'd cause him harm so he could love you more?

I suppose it would matter on what the dog was for. Is it a service dog? Actually, it made me think of the movie Max, about an military bomb sniffing dog, and the dogs love and attachment to his trainer, and then his trainers brother.

 

[ezrider]

Roro1972

Let's tie this in to the OP.
What is the righteousness of God?

Wondering

Thank you for the attempt to try and bring this back around to the intent of the OP, which was to discuss how the Righteousness of God can only be revealed through the Spirit by FAITH, and that seeking after the knowledge of the law and the knowledge of good and evil blinds us to the righteousness of God.

You have have been very clear that you cannot begin to fathom how God could create evil or darkness, and how could you worship such a God. And in this I can understand your sentiment wholeheartedly. I been there before. Now you made a comment to the extent that those who have stopped asking that question have got it easy, but that is not true at all. It's just the desire for that type of knowledge has given way to accepting what is given me through faith. I seek after the knowledge of Christ, not the knowledge of evil. which is again, the message of the OP. Do you seek after the knowledge of Christ and the righteousness of God walking by faith? Or do you walk according to your own knowledge of the law of sin and death?

You would question God and his use of evil based upon your own worldly wisdom, without first seeking the knowledge of Christ and his righteousness. Maybe we should First seek out by faith the Lord's Righteousness, and then the understanding we seek about these other things will come. The knowledge of the law and man's wisdom is not going to reveal the knowledge of God's righteousness, whether it be for good or evil.