God No One Has Seen At Any Time

[Randy]

It does NOT say anywhere in the entire Bible that the Father's Deity dwells in Jesus Christ. Show any Scripture that says that!

Colossians 2.9 says that it is Jesus Christs own Deity that He is Almighty God

It is your theology about Jesus Christ that does not allow you to accept this Great Bible TRUTH

Col 1:19 - pleased to dwell in Him is NOT Him but in Him

Jesus testified who lived in Him. The Father

I believe Him.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

 

[Runningman]

Hebrews 1:8-9 is quoted from Psalm 45:6-7

"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions"

I don't know of a single Version of the Bible, that would translate the Hebrew here, "’ĕ·lō·hîm", as "a god"!

That's because there are variants of elohim, but in Psalm 45:6 is H430, 'ĕlôhı̂ym can be used to refer to ordinary gods as well, magistrates, or angels. Some examples of elohim not being Lord God Almighty are Exodus 7:1, Deuteronomy 32:12, Psalm 45:6, etc.

Why do translators make some nouns proper? They add upper-case lettering because they are translators and are trying to guess what the correct translation is. There wasn't upper-case lettering in the original Hebrew, unfortunately, or this wouldn't have been a point of confusion.

Psalm 45, once again, is about a human king with a queen. That isn't the supreme God. That's a god with emphasis on that being a god with a little g.

The Jewish Targum for this reads;

"The Throne of Your Glory, O YHWH lasts forever and ever; the Scepter of Your Kingdom is an upright Scepter"

Clearly this refers to Almighty God, and God the Father addressed these words to God the Son in Hebrews!

I think you already know based off of your previous discussion of elohim in Psalm 45:6 that elohim is not the same word as YHWH. Don't trust that false translation. We already know YHWH doesn't exist in Psalm 45:6.

In Psalm 45:11, it goes on to say,

"So the King will greatly desire your beauty; Because He is your Lord (Hebrew, "ʼâdôwn"), Worship Him"

And yet in Psalm 45:11 it's still talking about a human. Human kings are bowed to in the Bible, they sometimes call it worship, but not worship as God.

Some examples of humans being bowed to in worship are Psalm 45:11, Genesis 18:2, and 1 Kings 1:23. The same word for worship in Psalm 45:11 in regards to the human king being worshipped is used in the other examples I gave where humans were worshipping other men.

So your premise doesn't follow soundly to the conclusion you're proposing.

This is the SAME root Hebrew word for LORD as used in Psalm 110:1, "Yahweh said to ʼâdôwn"

YHWH doesn't exist in Psalm 45:6. Better go take another look.

Without any doubt, Jesus Christ is YHWH!

YHWH is demonstrably not Jesus. YHWH is the Father. There are no other God's but Him. That's what we believe. He is our God, the true God, the only God. He told His Son Jesus to sit at His right hand.

Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD,[YHWH] and there is no other;
there is no God but Me.
I will equip you for battle,
though you have not known Me,

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD,[YHWH] You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.

Psalm 110
1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

Hebrews 1:10-12 is also addressed to Jesus Christ by the Father, also as YHWH, THE CREATOR of the entire Universe. Again quoted from Psalm 102:24-27!

Hebrews 1:10 is about YHWH and how He is the Creator. That's the same God who anointed the Son in Hebrews 1:9.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Col 1:19 - pleased to dwell in Him is NOT Him but in Him

Jesus testified who lived in Him. The Father

I believe Him.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

The OP is very clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH

 

[SolaScriptura]

That's because there are variants of elohim, but in Psalm 45:6 is H430, 'ĕlôhı̂ym can be used to refer to ordinary gods as well, magistrates, or angels. Some examples of elohim not being Lord God Almighty are Exodus 7:1, Deuteronomy 32:12, Psalm 45:6, etc.

Why do translators make some nouns proper? They add upper-case lettering because they are translators and are trying to guess what the correct translation is. There wasn't upper-case lettering in the original Hebrew, unfortunately, or this wouldn't have been a point of confusion.

Psalm 45, once again, is about a human king with a queen. That isn't the supreme God. That's a god with emphasis on that being a god with a little g.


I think you already know based off of your previous discussion of elohim in Psalm 45:6 that elohim is not the same word as YHWH. Don't trust that false translation. We already know YHWH doesn't exist in Psalm 45:6.

And yet in Psalm 45:11 it's still talking about a human. Human kings are bowed to in the Bible, they sometimes call it worship, but not worship as God.

Some examples of humans being bowed to in worship are Psalm 45:11, Genesis 18:2, and 1 Kings 1:23. The same word for worship in Psalm 45:11 in regards to the human king being worshipped is used in the other examples I gave where humans were worshipping other men.

So your premise doesn't follow soundly to the conclusion you're proposing.


YHWH doesn't exist in Psalm 45:6. Better go take another look.

YHWH is demonstrably not Jesus. YHWH is the Father. There are no other God's but Him. That's what we believe. He is our God, the true God, the only God. He told His Son Jesus to sit at His right hand.

Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD,[YHWH] and there is no other;
there is no God but Me.
I will equip you for battle,
though you have not known Me,

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD,[YHWH] You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.

Psalm 110
1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”


Hebrews 1:10 is about YHWH and how He is the Creator. That's the same God who anointed the Son in Hebrews 1:9.

The OP is very clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH

 

[Runningman]

The OP is very clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH

There is no other God but YHWH and then Jesus isn't YHWH. I have disproven the deity of Jesus using the Word of God. This is sola scriptura.

Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD,[YHWH] and there is no other;
there is no God but Me.
I will equip you for battle,
though you have not known Me,

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD,[YHWH] You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.

Psalm 110
1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

 

[SolaScriptura]

There is no other God but YHWH and then Jesus isn't YHWH. I have disproven the deity of Jesus using the Word of God. This is sola scriptura.

Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD,[YHWH] and there is no other;
there is no God but Me.
I will equip you for battle,
though you have not known Me,

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD,[YHWH] You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.

Psalm 110
1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

two verses in Isaiah will disprove you!

9:6, Jesus Christ is MIGHTY GOD

10:21, the Father is MIGHTY GOD

Two distinct Persons Who are 100% Equally MIGHTY GOD

Now try and twist this!

 

[Runningman]

two verses in Isaiah will disprove you!

9:6, Jesus Christ is MIGHTY GOD

10:21, the Father is MIGHTY GOD

Two distinct Persons Who are 100% Equally MIGHTY GOD

Now try and twist this!

YHWH was called Father. Jesus refused to be called father. That means Jesus isn't YHWH. Since YHWH is the only God according to Isaiah 45:5, that means Jesus isn't God.

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD,[YHWH] You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.

Matthew 23
9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ.

 

[SolaScriptura]

YHWH was called Father. Jesus refused to be called father. That means Jesus isn't YHWH. Since YHWH is the only God according to Isaiah 45:5, that means Jesus isn't God.

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD,[YHWH] You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.

Matthew 23
9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ.

Jesus Christ is NOT the Father. They are DISTINCT Persons.

Both are YHWH

 

[Runningman]

Jesus Christ is NOT the Father. They are DISTINCT Persons.

Both are YHWH

They're both YHWH but only YHWH is the Father? No. YHWH is the Father's personal name. Jesus is never called YHWH.

 

[Randy]

The OP is very clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH

YHWH is my heavenly Father.

 

[SolaScriptura]

They're both YHWH but only YHWH is the Father? No. YHWH is the Father's personal name. Jesus is never called YHWH.

The Bible disagrees with you!

We have the Prophecy in Isaiah 40:3, of the First Coming of Jesus Christ:

"The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of YHWH in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God"

In Matthew 3:3, we read that this Prophecy is fulfilled when Jesus Christ Came into this world

"For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord (YHWH); Make His paths straight.’ ”

How can this passages from Isaiah, which Speaks of the Coming of YHWH, be fulfilled in the First Coming of Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH?

In Numbers 21:6, we read;

"YHWH sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died"

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, Pauls says;

"nor let us tempt the Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents"

Again, the Actions of YHWH in the Old Testament, are directly said to be that of Jesus Christ. Paul could not have used this passage from Numbers, and apply it to Jesus Christ, if He is not Himself YHWH.

In Joel 2:32, we read;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved"

In Peter's sermon in Acts chapter 2, we read of the Prophecy in Joel from verse 14. In verse 21 Peter quotes;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord (YHWH) shall be saved"

In Romans chapter 10, Paul is speaking of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and salvation in Him. In verse 13 Paul says;

"For “everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved.”

It is impossible for both Peter and Paul to have quoted the passage from Joel, of YHWH, and apply it directly to Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH

In Isaiah 45:21-23 we read;

"Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, YHWH? And there is no other God besides Me, A Just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath"

In Philippians 2:9-11, Paul says;

"Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father"

Clearly Paul is quoting the passage from Isaiah as fulfilled in Jesus Christ. All of what is spoken by Isaiah, is clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH, The Just God, and Savior. And it is to Jesus Christ that every knee will bow, which will be to the Glory of God the Father!

How are these passages, that speak of Jesus Christ as YHWH, be so, if He is not Himself YHWH, which makes Jesus Christ Almighty God, and 100% COEQUAL with God the Father.

 

[SolaScriptura]

YHWH is my heavenly Father.

see #231

 

[Randy]

see #231

YHWH is the God and Father of Jesus.
All the fullness of YHWH was pleased to dwell in the Firstborn. He, the one Jesus calls Father, is the very one that defined the being of His Firstborn. Jesus is the radiance of YHWH's glory, (another), and the imprint of YHWH's very being. That is the testimony of the Son. AS Mighty God.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

If Jesus is YHWH, as in His Deity, rather than the Fathers, why is He not our heavenly Father?

 

[SolaScriptura]

YHWH is the God and Father of Jesus.
All the fullness of YHWH was pleased to dwell in the Firstborn. He, the one Jesus calls Father, is the very one that defined the being of His Firstborn. Jesus is the radiance of YHWH's glory, (another), and the imprint of YHWH's very being. That is the testimony of the Son. AS Mighty God.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

If Jesus is YHWH, as in His Deity, rather than the Fathers, why is He not our heavenly Father?

The Bible is very clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH

The Father is YHWH

The Holy Spirit is YHWH

There distant Persons Who are 100% COEQUAL in the Eternal Godhead or Divine Nature

This is what the Bible actually teaches. And this is how we have the Trinity

 

[Randy]

The Bible is very clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH

The Father is YHWH

The Holy Spirit is YHWH

There distant Persons Who are 100% COEQUAL in the Eternal Godhead or Divine Nature

This is what the Bible actually teaches. And this is how we have the Trinity

The fullness doesn't dwell in the Father as He is that Deity in Himself. Jesus has His "Father's nature" and that is God the Son. Gifted from the will of another. Col 1:19. The Father's own Spirit, the Spirit of YHWH, would also have the Fathers nature. God

It changes nothing as Jesus is all that the Father is and has sat down with the Father on His Fathers throne. ALL things have been placed in His hands by His Father. In Him all things hold together and are sustained by His powerful word.

The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and they are indeed ONE. "Forever"

 

[SolaScriptura]

The fullness doesn't dwell in the Father as He is that Deity in Himself. Jesus has His "Father's nature" and that is God the Son. Gifted from the will of another. Col 1:19. The Father's own Spirit, the Spirit of YHWH, would also have the Fathers nature. God

It changes nothing as Jesus is all that the Father is and has sat down with the Father on His Fathers throne. ALL things have been placed in His hands by His Father. In Him all things hold together and are sustained by His powerful word.

The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and they are indeed ONE. "Forever"

So the Father is god and Jesus Christ is God?

So Jesus is Superior to the Father!

 

[Runningman]

The Bible disagrees with you!

We'll see.

We have the Prophecy in Isaiah 40:3, of the First Coming of Jesus Christ:

"The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of YHWH in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God"

That isn't about Jesus. In John 1:30 the one John said was coming is a man, not YHWH. YHWH said He isn't a man. We all know YHWH isn't a human. YHWH was with Jesus.

YHWH is not a man - Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9

In Matthew 3:3, we read that this Prophecy is fulfilled when Jesus Christ Came into this world

"For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord (YHWH); Make His paths straight.’ ”

That isn't about Jesus. John 1:9 says "The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world." This verse speaks of YHWH who was coming into the world using present tense language, yet Jesus had already been in the world for 30 years by the time he began his ministry. This is in accordance with Jesus isn't YHWH. He's a man God was with.

How can this passages from Isaiah, which Speaks of the Coming of YHWH, be fulfilled in the First Coming of Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH?

In Numbers 21:6, we read;

"YHWH sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died"

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, Pauls says;

"nor let us tempt the Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents"

That doesn't say Jesus is YHWH who sent snakes to them. In the context of 1 Corinthians 10, it's using examples of things that happened in the past teach people to be good in the present.

1 Corinthians 10
6These things took place as examples to keep us from craving evil things as they did. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written: “The people sat down to eat and to drink, and got up to indulge in revelry.” 8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test Christ, as some of them did, and were killed by snakes. 10And do not complain, as some of them did, and were killed by the destroying angel.

Again, the Actions of YHWH in the Old Testament, are directly said to be that of Jesus Christ. Paul could not have used this passage from Numbers, and apply it to Jesus Christ, if He is not Himself YHWH.

None at all.

In Joel 2:32, we read;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved"

In Peter's sermon in Acts chapter 2, we read of the Prophecy in Joel from verse 14. In verse 21 Peter quotes;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord (YHWH) shall be saved"

In Romans chapter 10, Paul is speaking of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and salvation in Him. In verse 13 Paul says;

"For “everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved.”

Nothing in the Bible says call on the name of Jesus to be saved. YHWH is the one who saves through Jesus hence He's the one we are calling on.

John 3
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

It is impossible for both Peter and Paul to have quoted the passage from Joel, of YHWH, and apply it directly to Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH

They didn't say Jesus is YHWH. YHWH saving through Jesus is foundational to Christian salvation.

In Isaiah 45:21-23 we read;

"Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, YHWH? And there is no other God besides Me, A Just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath"

Correct, YHWH is the only God who saves through Jesus.

In Philippians 2:9-11, Paul says;

"Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father"

Clearly Paul is quoting the passage from Isaiah as fulfilled in Jesus Christ. All of what is spoken by Isaiah, is clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH, The Just God, and Savior. And it is to Jesus Christ that every knee will bow, which will be to the Glory of God the Father!

When Jesus is bowed to he isn't getting the glory for it, only God the Father is.

How are these passages, that speak of Jesus Christ as YHWH, be so, if He is not Himself YHWH, which makes Jesus Christ Almighty God, and 100% COEQUAL with God the Father.

Because the Bible disagrees with you still. That's why it isn't all meshing. See below where YHWH isn't Jesus.

Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD,[YHWH] and there is no other;
there is no God but Me.
I will equip you for battle,
though you have not known Me,

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD,[YHWH] You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.

Psalm 110
1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

 

[Randy]

So the Father is god and Jesus Christ is God?

So Jesus is Superior to the Father!

Jesus is all that the Father is for in Him the fullness of God was pleased to dwell.

Jesus inherited all things from the Father.
Jesus received the fullness from the will of another.
Jesus received authority from the Father.
According to Jesus He lives by the Father just as we live by Him.

 

[SolaScriptura]

We'll see.


That isn't about Jesus. In John 1:30 the one John said was coming is a man, not YHWH. YHWH said He isn't a man. We all know YHWH isn't a human. YHWH was with Jesus.

YHWH is not a man - Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9


That isn't about Jesus. John 1:9 says "The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world." This verse speaks of YHWH who was coming into the world using present tense language, yet Jesus had already been in the world for 30 years by the time he began his ministry. This is in accordance with Jesus isn't YHWH. He's a man God was with.


That doesn't say Jesus is YHWH who sent snakes to them. In the context of 1 Corinthians 10, it's using examples of things that happened in the past teach people to be good in the present.

1 Corinthians 10
6These things took place as examples to keep us from craving evil things as they did. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written: “The people sat down to eat and to drink, and got up to indulge in revelry.” 8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test Christ, as some of them did, and were killed by snakes. 10And do not complain, as some of them did, and were killed by the destroying angel.



None at all.


Nothing in the Bible says call on the name of Jesus to be saved. YHWH is the one who saves through Jesus hence He's the one we are calling on.

John 3
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.



They didn't say Jesus is YHWH. YHWH saving through Jesus is foundational to Christian salvation.

Correct, YHWH is the only God who saves through Jesus.


When Jesus is bowed to he isn't getting the glory for it, only God the Father is.

Because the Bible disagrees with you still. That's why it isn't all meshing. See below where YHWH isn't Jesus.

Isaiah 45
5I am the LORD,[YHWH] and there is no other;
there is no God but Me.
I will equip you for battle,
though you have not known Me,

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD,[YHWH] You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.

Psalm 110
1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

Psalm 110:1 - Yahweh said to Yahweh

Psalm 110:1 – “nü´ùm Yehôvâh lA´dönî” A very important verse, and Psalm. In the greater majority of English Versions, we have as in the King James Bible, “The LORD said unto my Lord”. In some Versions, like the 2011 New International, Good News, English Standard Version, New American Bible...

christianforums.net

Evidence that is impossible to disprove!

 

[JLB]

There is no other God but YHWH and then Jesus isn't YHWH.

The Son, The Father, The Spirit are one; One God, YHWH the LORD God.