God's Conditional Grace

[Mitspa]

i think we can as peter makes it clear in other verses. shall i go there?.

i could fill this screen up with scriptures that prove eternal salvation by GRACE! What is your point? I am in faith! you are in doubt and seek to "unsave" someone?
I Know in Whom i believe! I know Why i believe!

You want to find reasons to doubt? sorry thats not faith!



Heb 3:6



But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7



Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8



Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9



When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10



Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11



So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Heb 3:12



Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.



Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[jasoncran]

i will answer that simply with this case.

why did adam who had more then you or i reject god? why? why did eve sin? they never knew sin yet the choose it and knowingly did it. tis not like they didnt know that it wasnt a sin to eat the fruit.

do you believe in free will? kindly reconcile matthew seven where it says about the workers of inquity. jesus never said the workers of iniquity didnt cast out demons nor heal in his name etc. he just said that he didnt know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

how can a sinner cast out a devil?

ok so you believe christ allows us to have a freewill?if so then when we sin and go out and do it and ye say that he is faithful and he lifts us from that bad thing like i do with that baby when she runs to pick something up that may harm her. her will was i want that electric plug in my hand while its plugged in. my will is that is bad and no YOU may NOT. who has free will?

god overides our wills if you believe that.

 

[jasoncran]

unsave? no. not in the slightest. only god knows that.im stating that i can as i did in my past knowingly and i mean knowingly sin, when i dated a gay man. i was a christian. i began to hate that fact i couldnt be with him and be saved. I knew it was a sin and i knew god said it was. so i began to find ways to decieve my self. that my friend is where it starts. but god stopped that. he sent a prophetess to warn me of that sin and that it was indeed a sin.he ovverrided my will but using his holy spirit to convict me of my sin as i prayed and read romans 1:26.

 

[Mitspa]

i will answer that simply with this case.

why did adam who had more then you or i reject god? why? why did eve sin? they never knew sin yet the choose it and knowingly did it. tis not like they didnt know that it wasnt a sin to eat the fruit.

do you believe in free will? kindly reconcile matthew seven where it says about the workers of inquity. jesus never said the workers of iniquity didnt cast out demons nor heal in his name etc. he just said that he didnt know them.



how can a sinner cast out a devil?

ok so you believe christ allows us to have a freewill?if so then when we sin and go out and do it and ye say that he is faithful and he lifts us from that bad thing like i do with that baby when she runs to pick something up that may harm her. her will was i want that electric plug in my hand while its plugged in. my will is that is bad and no YOU may NOT. who has free will?

god overides our wills if you believe that.

"Adam had more than you or i"? I disagree!
Eph 1:3



Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4



According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 2:6



And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7



That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8






For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9



Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Col 2:9



For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 2:10





And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


1Jn 4:17



Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

i could go on but time is short!

The Lamb was slain before Adam! maybe you could clear up your question? because your lack of bible knowledge hinders the point you are trying to make!

 

[jasoncran]

uh yes. adam ere the fall walked with god in the cool of the day as one talks to a friend.

And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden

who told them that it was death if they ate of the tree. or was god some meanie that just made adam and eve and didnt talk to them? i dont think so. common sense. adam lost all that we had. its a restoration not better we are restored to what was. the earth will be what it was. the idea of the near kinsmen reddemer implies that. there was no death then no seperation from god. he could talk to god and see god. just because its not sad doesnt mean its so. remember he had no sin BEFORE the fall.sin that will cause to die if we saw the face of the YHWH and jesus this side of heaven.

 

[Mitspa]

uh yes. adam ere the fall walked with god in the cool of the day as one talks to a friend.

And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden

who told them that it was death if they ate of the tree. or was god some meanie that just made adam and eve and didnt talk to them? i dont think so. common sense. adam lost all that we had. its a restoration not better we are restored to what was. the earth will be what it was. the idea of the near kinsmen reddemer implies that. there was no death then no seperation from god. he could talk to god and see god. just because its not sad doesnt mean its so. remember he had no sin BEFORE the fall.sin that will cause to die if we saw the face of the YHWH and jesus this side of heaven.

So you believe Adam had a closer relationship with God than those of us who have His Spirit?
Christ in you the hope of Glory! Seated with Christ in the heavens! So Adam is greater than Christ?
1Co 2:7

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1Co 2:12

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

you believe Adam had more than this?

 

[jasoncran]

really?jesus died before adam sinned?

adam lost it all. im sorry if he didnt sin and he had that option he would have it all

revalation 22

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads

that is coming. the tree of life where was it? in the garden, where will it be somewhere on the earth when the city of god comes which well that is another topic

really,im insulted.

so you can hate your neighbor and never ever reconcile and god will just let that by despite the warnings on forgiveness. which is btw a condition

we are to forgive our neighbors tresspasses then ours are forgiven. do you really think that a man who hates his brother and never repents will be in heaven?sure god will over look our sins but man that doesnt mean we should just ignore that verse thats a danger and i have watched an osaser dance around the idea of that warning. he said its a good idea to forgive to save troubles but it will never ever cost you your soul. hmm thats not which jesus said in any of his parables.

Matt 18:23-35 Therefore the Kingdom of Heaven is like a certain king, who wanted to reconcile accounts with his servants. When he had begun to reconcile, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. But because he couldn’t pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, with his wife, his children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down and kneeled before him, saying, ‘Lord, have patience with me, and I will repay you all!’ The lord of that servant, being moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt. "But that servant went out, and found one of his fellow servants, who owed him one hundred denarii, and he grabbed him, and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ "So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will repay you!’ He would not, but went and cast him into prison, until he should pay back that which was due. So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were exceedingly sorry, and came and told to their lord all that was done. Then his lord called him in, and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt, because you begged me. Shouldn’t you also have had mercy on your fellow servant, even as I had mercy on you?’ His lord was angry, and delivered him to the tormentors, until he should pay all that was due to him. So my heavenly Father will also do to you, if you don’t each forgive your brother from your hearts for his misdeeds." [SIZE=-1](web)[/SIZE]

note the last line! he says you will suffer the same. just wow2 and we wonder why the church these days are so weak.

im in the ressurected life now. it happened when i came to christ and it will be when he comes in full fruition. i dont need to wait for a city to rule to know that i rule know. sheesh im not a futurist. im amil and a partial preterist.
so lets just teach this silly prayer and your saved.

jesus come into my heart and im saved. and no discipleship and no call or teach to be holy and viola your saved. i know you arent saying that and many oasers wouldnt say that is wise but i have seen men say that is about what they did and they go into sin and it never seemed they changed and then come back and really live that life.hmm and then argue that they were save then in that sin when no change ever occured. really?

 

[Mitspa]

really?jesus died before adam sinned?

adam lost it all. im sorry if he didnt sin and he had that option he would have it all

revalation 22



that is coming. the tree of life where was it? in the garden, where will it be somewhere on the earth when the city of god comes which well that is another topic

really,im insulted.

so you can hate your neighbor and never ever reconcile and god will just let that by despite the warnings on forgiveness. which is btw a condition

we are to forgive our neighbors tresspasses then ours are forgiven. do you really think that a man who hates his brother and never repents will be in heaven?sure god will over look our sins but man that doesnt mean we should just ignore that verse thats a danger and i have watched an osaser dance around the idea of that warning. he said its a good idea to forgive to save troubles but it will never ever cost you your soul. hmm thats not which jesus said in any of his parables.



note the last line! he says you will suffer the same. just wow2 and we wonder why the church these days are so weak.

im in the ressurected life now. it happened when i came to christ and it will be when he comes in full fruition. i dont need to wait for a city to rule to know that i rule know. sheesh im not a futurist. im amil and a partial preterist.
so lets just teach this silly prayer and your saved.

jesus come into my heart and im saved. and no discipleship and no call or teach to be holy and viola your saved. i know you arent saying that and many oasers wouldnt say that is wise but i have seen men say that is about what they did and they go into sin and it never seemed they changed and then come back and really live that life.hmm and then argue that they were save then in that sin when no change ever occured. really?

What do you think "BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD" means?

 

[jasoncran]

So you believe Adam had a closer relationship with God than those of us who have His Spirit?
Christ in you the hope of Glory! Seated with Christ in the heavens! So Adam is greater than Christ?
1Co 2:7

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1Co 2:12

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

you believe Adam had more than this?

No, neither of us are but christ like him had the nature that knew no sin. christ was god. try comparing god to god and man to man. adam ere the fall had a closer relationship to the YHWH then we did or do now. did he know it all? NO, but he did talk to god and hear him notice it said they heard him. not some iternal voice but an audible one. how many men today hear that and know it on that level? even in the bible that audible voice rare.


sheesh. what are we going to have when its all said in done? the holy spirit in us all? or a relationship with christ in the olam ha ba(hebrew for the world to come or after life)

the only reason we even have the holy spirit is to work the things for god. that is it. remember and read what i say before the fall. we are after the fall and things are different. we need the hs for things and lean on him for power. adam didnt have that nor need that as there was NO S I N yet., he fully know that eve was decieved and choose to sin. why is that so hard for you to see. whom was decieved eve or adam? hm, paul says eve. adam fully knew and wanted eve over GOD.

even know sin seperates us from god we cant see him fully because of sin. adam didnt have that problem. if you doubt that then why did john fall to the ground when the glory of jesus came to him in that vision? after all there was no sin factor right? ever feel the nature of god on you and feel humble and realise how small you are and sinful?

 

[jasoncran]

What do you think "BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD" means?

we gee christ died then before the law was given.. that means god planned that christ would die to reedeem before the creation of adam. so he made adam to sin? if you are calvinist then yes is your answer but well if adam was sinning and god cant judge him for something he was to do? so that means he allowed adam to sin and allowed it and sought to allow that for his own reasons.

but well did was adam a sinner before he ate the fruit? if so show me? lead me to that verse that adam was a sinner before the fall. he well wasnt told to eat that tree and was dying before he sinned. good luck.

IN SHORT IT MEANS THAT GOD FOEEKNEW THAT ADAM WOULD FALL AND SET UP THE MEANS OF REDEMPTION. NOW THEN are you a calvinist?

 

[Mitspa]

No, neither of us are but christ like him had the nature that knew no sin. christ was god. try comparing god to god and man to man. adam ere the fall had a closer relationship to the YHWH then we did or do now. did he know it all? NO, but he did talk to god and hear him notice it said they heard him. not some iternal voice but an audible one. how many men today hear that and know it on that level? even in the bible that audible voice rare.


sheesh. what are we going to have when its all said in done? the holy spirit in us all? or a relationship with christ in the olam ha ba(hebrew for the world to come or after life)

the only reason we even have the holy spirit is to work the things for god. that is it. remember and read what i say before the fall. we are after the fall and things are different. we need the hs for things and lean on him for power. adam didnt have that nor need that as there was NO S I N yet., he fully know that eve was decieved and choose to sin. why is that so hard for you to see. whom was decieved eve or adam? hm, paul says eve. adam fully knew and wanted eve over GOD.

even know sin seperates us from god we cant see him fully because of sin. adam didnt have that problem. if you doubt that then why did john fall to the ground when the glory of jesus came to him in that vision? after all there was no sin factor right? ever feel the nature of god on you and feel humble and realise how small you are and sinful?

"niether of us are" what! The Word of God says "i am"! sorry thats faith!

2Co 4:18



While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

This is faith!

Rom 4:17

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18

Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19

And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21

And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

 

[jasoncran]

sheesh , nice diversion.

answer the parable about the unforgiving serveant in matthew 18,. that implies you can leave christ and loose your soul forever if you dont repent.

 

[jasoncran]

and that my friend is why you get whacky teachings in the american churches.

"one can be a child of god and not be into holiness" yes sir and maam i have heard that on the radio. they argued that from an eternal security position that when you repent you are child of god forever and you can opt out of wanting to grow in god.odd that isnt what the epistles say. if i love my wife i will want to spend time with here and please here not marry here and just sit there and never work on the relationship.

 

[Mitspa]

we gee christ died then before the law was given.. that means god planned that christ would die to reedeem before the creation of adam. so he made adam to sin? if you are calvinist then yes is your answer but well if adam was sinning and god cant judge him for something he was to do? so that means he allowed adam to sin and allowed it and sought to allow that for his own reasons.

but well did was adam a sinner before he ate the fruit? if so show me? lead me to that verse that adam was a sinner before the fall. he well wasnt told to eat that tree and was dying before he sinned. good luck.

IN SHORT IT MEANS THAT GOD FOEEKNEW THAT ADAM WOULD FALL AND SET UP THE MEANS OF REDEMPTION. NOW THEN are you a calvinist?

Go and find out what this means? THE GREAT "I AM"

Rev 1:8



I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 22:13






I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

My friend you are in over your head! You must become a fool to be made wise!

My background is from what is known as" The Word of Faith" E.W. Kenyon, K Haggin Sr. Smith Wigglesworth, Andrew Womack, Joseph Prince, Rodney Howard Browne, and the classic Fathers of faith, Moody, Spurgon, Finny,T A Sparks, among many others! none of them Calvin!

 

[jasoncran]

Go and find out what this means? THE GREAT "I AM"

Rev 1:8

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 22:13


I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

My friend you are in over your head! You must become a fool to be made wise!

ok that meanst going to the poing of not reading plan scripture i dont like that fits my pet doctrines? that means ignoring that plain warnings of jesus that great I AM who say i should know. the one that well died for me at the cross the one that told me to start in the tanach as im a jew. the one that told me go back to the tanach and showed me things on ot-nt that i never saw before. the one that said well you better forgive your neighbor and describes with a warning what would be if you didnt repent.

he even starts with a servean who a debt he couldnt pay and the serveant that begged for mercy and goes to make that payment that he really didnt owe. it was forgiven. then goes to that fellow serveant who said the same and locks him up and the fellow serveants tell the king who sends him the tormentors and tells him though shall never be loosed? and then says if you dont forgive those that trespass agaisnt you so shall it be

it never gets any clearer. be a fool for jesus. yay i wouldnt know what that is.

im done with you as you finally INSULTED me too much2

 

[savedbygrace57]

born

I did read what Peter said and I also commented on it.

So did I, and you avoided any comment on it. What is amis with my comment ? Then show us how to make it right !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Heb 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."


Again, Acts 5:31 says Jesus GIVES repentance, so it a gift, an offer, something granted, an opportunity that has to be received. Jesus did not save all of Israel but gave them the gift, the opportunity, the availability for them all to repent and be saved.

False teaching. Nowhere is said Jesus made Salvation available to all men ! And Christ gives Repentance/ obedience to those He saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Mitspa]

ok that meanst going to the poing of not reading plan scripture i dont like that fits my pet doctrines? that means ignoring that plain warnings of jesus that great I AM who say i should know. the one that well died for me at the cross the one that told me to start in the tanach as im a jew. the one that told me go back to the tanach and showed me things on ot-nt that i never saw before. the one that said well you better forgive your neighbor and describes with a warning what would be if you didnt repent.

he even starts with a servean who a debt he couldnt pay and the serveant that begged for mercy and goes to make that payment that he really didnt owe. it was forgiven. then goes to that fellow serveant who said the same and locks him up and the fellow serveants tell the king who sends him the tormentors and tells him though shall never be loosed? and then says if you dont forgive those that trespass agaisnt you so shall it be

it never gets any clearer. be a fool for jesus. yay i wouldnt know what that is.

im done with you as you finally INSULTED me too much2

Look i dont know your heart? You may be absolutly sincere? But my friend, You cant teach the Gospel by attempting to bring every possible doubt of scripture? We are called to the "Ministry of Righteousness" 2Cor3 The "ministry of reconciliation"

2Co 5:18

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Meaning our words are to minister to others the "righteousness of faith" and to bring the hearer closer to God,
Not putting doubts and seperation into the minds of others!
Now if you sincerly follow Christ? He will teach you this also!
If you would humble yourself? others could help you learn.
Sorry if i insulted you but your doctrines are not complete and lack much in true ministry.

 

[jasoncran]

really i shouldnt have been warned by a prophetess that being gay and a christian was wrong? yet i knew before that it was fully?

really we shouldnt warn each other that sin cant if unchecked be allowed in heaven? we should just pick our favorites doctrines and well believe no matter what and never challenge them to see if they hold.

pentacostals. know all about it been raised in that for most of my walk.my church is one. hmm and my pastor doesnt teach wof like you would.

perhaps its time i delete my account. i was going to ask next month anyway.

 

[rrowell]

Duh, I know what Peter wrote, I just posted some of things he wrote, did you not just read it ?

You post what Peter wrote, but no not what it says...

She also in her post referenced Mark 16:15, did you read that?

Predestined salvation is not in "Duh" I mean "the" Bible...