God's Conditional Grace

[Eventide]

The NT law is based on love, but love means keeping God's commandments.

And how well are YOU doing at keeping God's commandments... ?

Some good days some bad days...? Ever struggle with sin in th flesh ?

Our old nature can't please God, but Christ in us can.. And only He can..

So once again IMO, to God alone be the glory!

 

[John 8:32]

The NT law is based on love, but love means keeping God's commandments.

First four tell us how to love God, and the last six tell us how to love our neighbor.

 

[Mitspa]

Naaman kept what God said "to the letter" when he went and dipped 7 times in the Jordan River. Does that make Naaman a legalist?


Jn 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments".

Jn 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

The NT law is based on love, but love means keeping God's commandments.

Joh 15:9

As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10


If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

see very simple!:biglol

 

[John 8:32]

And how well are YOU doing at keeping God's commandments... ?

Some good days some bad days...? Ever struggle with sin in th flesh ?

Of course, and that is exactly what Christ's job is and has been for the last 1981 years...

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Our old nature can't please God, but Christ in us can.. And only He can..

So once again IMO, to God alone be the glory!

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

A carnal human cannot be subject to the law of God, but what about one who has the Spirit of God? Those of us with the Spirit can be subject to the law and if we do stumble, then we have a great High Priest that ever lives to make intercession for us.

 

[stovebolts]

First four tell us how to love God, and the last six tell us how to love our neighbor.

The 5th one is a direct reflection on how we obey the first four and how we will obey the last 5... Just saying.

 

[John 8:32]

Joh 15:9



As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10






If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11



These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, andthatyour joy might be full.
Joh 15:12



This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

see very simple!:biglol

Pretty simple, except what commandmentS are the Commandments of Christ? The ones He gave at Mt. Sinai...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[John 8:32]

As far as loving one another, Paul sums it up...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The commandment "love your neighbor" is the summation of the last six commandments. It does not do away with them, it is the summation of them.

 

[stovebolts]

Think about it? How was you delivered? By a solid relationship with Christ? Rooted and grounded in His love for you, and your faith in Him? am i correct?
Then you also must see this is how we help sinners! not going around looking for twigs in the eyes of others!

i hope you do not leave this forum! and if i have offended you? please forgive me for His sake?

Mitspa,

Sorry for stepping in late and no, I havn't read every post in this thread. But what I'm gathering is you are on a solid crusade for grace Grace and GRACE! I commend you for this. However, Grace works itself through in many ways.

Many place in scripture it states that Fear of the Lord is the beginning of X. Yet in other places it says that there is no fear in the Lord. Sounds like a contridiction. But it's not.

We are all on a journey and for us to grasp grace, well... sometimes we have to struggle. In short, fear has it's place in the scheme of things.

Fear can be a great motivator to stop a behavior. The Bible says X, and we ought to obey the Bible, even if it's first rooted in fear if that's what it takes. Like a child, children don't begin to understand until they mature. I tell my kid, "Stop that or I'll spank your butt" and he stops. Why? Fear of getting spanked. As he matures, I teach him the why and what he begins to see, is that love is what drives my admonishment of him. If I train my child right, that fear is transformed into love, and there is no fear.

Fear has it's rightful place in scripture, and as one matures they begin to see Grace. You see, Grace doesn't lower the bar of what God expects out of you. He still sees our potential and pushes us to our potential as any good Father would do for his son. But he also understands when we fall short, so when we're trying our best and we fall short, God doesn't lower the bar and say, "It's ok, I know that's all you can do". No, I think he says something like, "It's ok, you gave it your best shot. Sit down, take a rest and we'll try it again... together. To me, that's how I see God's grace.

 

[stovebolts]

As far as loving one another, Paul sums it up...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The commandment "love your neighbor" is the summation of the last six commandments. It does not do away with them, it is the summation of them.

Your parents are not your neighbor. They are your parents and we are called to love our Parents as we would love our Father in heaven.

 

[John 8:32]

Your parents are not your neighbor. They are your parents and we are called to love our Parents as we would love our Father in heaven.

That commandment is reiterated in the New Testament also...

Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
Eph 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

 

[stovebolts]

That commandment is reiterated in the New Testament also...

Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
Eph 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

I don't want to side track the thread, but we see that the first four commandments are commandments to God and the last 5 are to our neighbor. The fifth commandment is to our parents and is a transitional commandment.

How we honor our father and mother is a reflection on how we honor God. Also, it is the parents responsibility to raise their children according to God's commandments as laid out in Deut 6:7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

and we could go on from there... but it is a parents responsibility to teach their children how to obey God and treat their neighbor. Again, the 5th commandment is a pivotal commandment between God and humanity aka neighbor.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa,

Sorry for stepping in late and no, I havn't read every post in this thread. But what I'm gathering is you are on a solid crusade for grace Grace and GRACE! I commend you for this. However, Grace works itself through in many ways.

Many place in scripture it states that Fear of the Lord is the beginning of X. Yet in other places it says that there is no fear in the Lord. Sounds like a contridiction. But it's not.

We are all on a journey and for us to grasp grace, well... sometimes we have to struggle. In short, fear has it's place in the scheme of things.

Fear can be a great motivator to stop a behavior. The Bible says X, and we ought to obey the Bible, even if it's first rooted in fear if that's what it takes. Like a child, children don't begin to understand until they mature. I tell my kid, "Stop that or I'll spank your butt" and he stops. Why? Fear of getting spanked. As he matures, I teach him the why and what he begins to see, is that love is what drives my admonishment of him. If I train my child right, that fear is transformed into love, and there is no fear.

Fear has it's rightful place in scripture, and as one matures they begin to see Grace. You see, Grace doesn't lower the bar of what God expects out of you. He still sees our potential and pushes us to our potential as any good Father would do for his son. But he also understands when we fall short, so when we're trying our best and we fall short, God doesn't lower the bar and say, "It's ok, I know that's all you can do". No, I think he says something like, "It's ok, you gave it your best shot. Sit down, take a rest and we'll try it again... together. To me, that's how I see God's grace.

I commend your knowledge! and nice car!
consider this "fear"?

Heb 4:1


Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Heb 4:3

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

and of course i would ask you to comment on this scripture?
1Jn 4:16

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jn 4:17

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1Jn 4:19


We love him, because he first loved us.

Do you believe one may come to a place where fear is no longer the motives of service to God?
I tell you one will serve God by love more than one who fears!

 

[stovebolts]

Do you believe one may come to a place where fear is no longer the motives of service to God?
I tell you one will serve God by love more than one who fears!

I believe that God is more in the business of transforming lives than he is in "saving" lives as most understand the term "saved".

Jesus tells us to ask, seek and knock... We are supposed to ask questions, even the tough ones. It's when we become complacent that we stop asking, seeking and knocking. I don't believe God wants us stuck in fear, but want to grow us in understanding to a place of love.

We all have our issues and I believe God is working in our lives to bring us into the fullness of Love. I believe we all have a bit of the fear of the Lord in us, and we should. Scripture states that if we claim we are without sin, then we are liars, and the truth is not in us. None of us are perfect, we all fall short. Fear is the entry point until understanding overcomes that fear and transforms into love. Our behavior remains the same, but what motivates that behavior has changed. Works based on fear take effort, while works based in love are seamless, and we don't even think about them. In this way, we can enter God's rest.

So yeah, I'm still on my soap box, sorry for the ramble lol! So, to answer your question, I would say that it takes more effort to serve God in fear than it does to serve God in Love. Does this translate into serving the Lord more through love? I don't really know, but I think when we serve the Lord in love, our light shines brighter because it's a genuine labor, and people see that, and are attracted to it where as fear turns people away, and we tend to be a bit more legalistic with our explanations. I think this is why we should never forget our pasts and what God has brought us through.

 

[Mitspa]

I believe that God is more in the business of transforming lives than he is in "saving" lives as most understand the term "saved".

Jesus tells us to ask, seek and knock... We are supposed to ask questions, even the tough ones. It's when we become complacent that we stop asking, seeking and knocking. I don't believe God wants us stuck in fear, but want to grow us in understanding to a place of love.

We all have our issues and I believe God is working in our lives to bring us into the fullness of Love. I believe we all have a bit of the fear of the Lord in us, and we should. Scripture states that if we claim we are without sin, then we are liars, and the truth is not in us. None of us are perfect, we all fall short. Fear is the entry point until understanding overcomes that fear and transforms into love. Our behavior remains the same, but what motivates that behavior has changed. Works based on fear take effort, while works based in love are seamless, and we don't even think about them. In this way, we can enter God's rest.

So yeah, I'm still on my soap box, sorry for the ramble lol! So, to answer your question, I would say that it takes more effort to serve God in fear than it does to serve God in Love. Does this translate into serving the Lord more through love? I don't really know, but I think when we serve the Lord in love, our light shines brighter because it's a genuine labor, and people see that, and are attracted to it where as fear turns people away, and we tend to be a bit more legalistic with our explanations. I think this is why we should never forget our pasts and what God has brought us through.

I think we agree on may things! God Bless! and keep it between ditches!

 

[stovebolts]

I think we agree on may things! God Bless! and keep it between ditches!

Well, I did do a 180 last year... had to change my shorts after that one lol.

Listen, Jason is a very good friend of mine and I love him as a brother which is the only reason I stepped into this. Jason is a good man. I believe you were preaching grace and jason was preaching fear. Both are biblical and I just wanted to bring a balance because it seemed to me that you both could come to a fuller understanding, instead of being pit against each other if you know what I mean. God accepts us where we're at, I think we ought to accept others where they are at too. I don't think it's always about being right if that makes sense... and that's kinda like grace isn't it?

Well, I've got to run. Nice chatting with you.

Grace and Peace,
Jeff

 

[Mitspa]

Well, I did do a 180 last year... had to change my shorts after that one lol.

Listen, Jason is a very good friend of mine and I love him as a brother which is the only reason I stepped into this. Jason is a good man. I believe you were preaching grace and jason was preaching fear. Both are biblical and I just wanted to bring a balance because it seemed to me that you both could come to a fuller understanding, instead of being pit against each other if you know what I mean. God accepts us where we're at, I think we ought to accept others where they are at too. I don't think it's always about being right if that makes sense... and that's kinda like grace isn't it?

Well, I've got to run. Nice chatting with you.

Grace and Peace,
Jeff

I must admit my heart broke when he spoke of leaving the forum?
He shared a bit of his testimony, which also made me wonder if i had been too hard on him?

please encourage him! and let him know for me, i would never hurt one of the "Lords little ones" on purpose! i also am one of "His little ones" and not ashamed to admit my great need for Him. God Bless and Keep you both!

 

[savedbygrace57]

You post what Peter wrote, but no not what it says...

She also in her post referenced Mark 16:15, did you read that?

Predestined salvation is not in "Duh" I mean "the" Bible...

False teaching. Nowhere is said Jesus made Salvation available to all men ! And Christ gives Repentance/ obedience to those He saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

And how well are YOU doing at keeping God's commandments... ?

Some good days some bad days...? Ever struggle with sin in th flesh ?

Our old nature can't please God, but Christ in us can.. And only He can..

So once again IMO, to God alone be the glory!

Sin from time to time but keep on walking in the light.

 

[Eventide]

Sin from time to time but keep on walking in the light.

IMO its the same for every one us.. We all struggle with sin in our members.. Because the FLESH (our flesh) wars against the SPIRIT of Christ in us...

That's why if we're in Christ, we are not under the LAW, for there is no law against love, joy, peace, etc..

 

[jasoncran]

Think about it? How was you delivered? By a solid relationship with Christ? Rooted and grounded in His love for you, and your faith in Him? am i correct?
Then you also must see this is how we help sinners! not going around looking for twigs in the eyes of others!

i hope you do not leave this forum! and if i have offended you? please forgive me for His sake?

you did very little to cause me to say that, it was becoming a flesh fest here and another place. you just made we want to leave earlier. there is a valid reason why i must do that but that i can wait till its time. i have no choice.

i was delivered from bisexuality by simply reading the word.as told by a prophetess. her son was a muslim who knew i was in love with a man and told her of it. she had been telling about the lord for a year and met in me in person and allowed me to stay with her for a few months before i came to the lord. she was heartbroken over my foray into that sin.she prayed and fasted i think and called me and told me to read romans one and then call her and i did. man that was a holy ghost freight train.



@jeff, thanks. while i did take a fear approach to the grace given to us. its only for the purpose of debating. in my walk theres a lot of love but at present its well im unworthy of him who died for me and i cant change that besetting sin.jeff if you are reading this we can either call or pm on what is going outside of what i have told you.