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wondering said:
Except that God is responsible for man's sin since He predestinated EVERYTHING before the beginning of the world.

Even sinning.

Except, oddly enough, this JUST God of yours still holds us responsible.
Click to expand...
God is not responsible for man's sinning - the actions of Adam, Eve, and Satan causes/d that - it was they who brought sin to life, God did not - God warned them away from that.
God predestinated a Saviour and those whom the Saviour would save.
Where in the Bible do you find that God predestinated sin? Verses please.
The below beyond any dispute, informs of that clearly and distinctly, unless, that is,
you are unable to believe what the Bible informs of.

[Jas 1:13-15 KJV]
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[Rom 3:23 KJV] 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[Rom 5:12 KJV] 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[Rom 5:18,19 KJV]
18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
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rogerg said:
God is not responsible for man's sinning - the actions of Adam, Eve, and Satan causes/d that - it was they who brought sin to life, God did not - God warned them away from that.
God predestinated a Saviour and those whom the Saviour would save.
Where in the Bible do you find that God predestinated sin? Verses please.
The below beyond any dispute, informs of that clearly and distinctly, unless, that is,
you are unable to believe what the Bible informs of.

[Jas 1:13-15 KJV]
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[Rom 3:23 KJV] 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[Rom 5:12 KJV] 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[Rom 5:18,19 KJV]
18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Click to expand...
You sound like a normal Christian.
Did you jump the fence?

Of course God is responsible for our sins if He predestinated them.

Ask McArthur and Piper, they'll tell you.

However, you will NOT find this in the bible.
No such verses.
 
wondering said:
You sound like a normal Christian.
Did you jump the fence?

Of course God is responsible for our sins if He predestinated them.

Ask McArthur and Piper, they'll tell you.

However, you will NOT find this in the bible.
No such verses.
Click to expand...
I don't know what you're talking about
 
wondering said:
Except that God is responsible for man's sin since He predestinated EVERYTHING before the beginning of the world.

Even sinning.

Except, oddly enough, this JUST God of yours still holds us responsible.

:whirl
Click to expand...
Totally ignorant of the differences of terms.where is the term predestination used in reference to sin?
Still avoiding 2 pet.3:9?

We all know why.
 
Iconoclast said:
Totally ignorant of the differences of terms.where is the term predestination used in reference to sin?
Still avoiding 2 pet.3:9?

We all know why.
Click to expand...
Did you check out the posts I stated?
I answered already.
 
rogerg said:
Seems like you did:

"God is responsible for man's sin." post#733
Click to expand...
God did not sin, Adam and Eve did. Because God created Adam and Eve, he has assumed all responsibility for their sins. This is what a holy, just, God does. If you create something and it doesn't work like it should, then who is responsible for that? We are all born after Adam. Is that our fault? No, it's Adam's fault and who created Adam? God did, therefore God is responsible for his creation. Jesus Christ is the remedy for man's fallen condition. Jesus has reconciled us and the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. No Calvinism needed.
 
Iconoclast said:
That is because she has no idea what she is talking about.
Hey wondering, could you quote them or any reformed person saying any such thing?
Click to expand...
Is John Piper good enough of a reformed person for you?
 
wondering said:
Is John Piper good enough of a reformed person for you?
Click to expand...
No...he is erratic.
He is gifted and can come out with some great ideas.
He also says things that are quite inconsistent.
Look at John Owen, John Murray, Matthew Henry, Richard Sibbes,Gerhardous Vos, B.B.Warfield,A.W.Pink, W.R. Downing,Albert N. MARTIN, Herman Bavinck
,Steve Lawson, James White, Sinclair Ferguson, Geoff Thomas. John Flavel, Thomas Watson..try them
Www.sermonaudio.com
 
Iconoclast said:
No...he is erratic.
He is gifted and can come out with some great ideas.
He also says things that are quite inconsistent.
Look at John Owen, John Murray, Matthew Henry, Richard Sibbes,Gerhardous Vos, B.B.Warfield,A.W.Pink, W.R. Downing,Albert N. MARTIN, Herman Bavinck
,Steve Lawson, James White, Sinclair Ferguson, Geoff Thomas. John Flavel, Thomas Watson..try them
Www.sermonaudio.com
Click to expand...
I know 2 of the above.
It's the same.
Piper is HONEST and doesn't sugar coat.
How about Sproul, McArthur?

At least be honest I.
 
wondering said:
I know 2 of the above.
It's the same.
Piper is HONEST and doesn't sugar coat.
How about Sproul, McArthur?

At least be honest I.
Click to expand...
They are good.
One of the best things Piper has done is in terms of sanctification...Dont waste your life....it was practical,more than doctrinal.
 
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