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The Biblical Importance of the Doctrine of Preterition Geerhardus Vos The Presbyterian, 70, 36 (September 5, 1900): pp. 9-10. One of the gravest symptoms of the revision movement in the Presbyterian Church today consists in the absence of serious appeal to scriptural authority for the changes of confessional statement that are advocated. From the attitude assumed by man, one would be led to think that no longer the infallible Word of God, but public sentiment, the so-called Christian consciousness, has become the recognized rule of faith among us. Consequently there is reason to fear that the spirit in which revision is sought forebodes greater evil to the church than any material modifications of creed to which revision may lead. Even if the Calvinistic system of doctrine embodied in our standards were seriously mutilated in result of the present movement, so long as the great body of believers feel themselves in conscience bound to yield unquestioning faith to the Bible, there is always hope for a rehabilitation of the principles temporarily abandoned. But when once the sense of allegiance to the Word of God as the only authoritative rule of faith has become weakened, or, while still recognized in theory has ceased to be a living force in the minds of believers, then the hope of a return to the truth once forsaken is reduced to a minimum. Among the elements of Calvinistic belief now under attack on account of the popular disfavor into which they have fallen, the doctrine of preterition occupies a conspicuous place. So far as we are aware it is seldom asserted openly that this doctrine must go because it has no basis in the Scripture. The worst that thoughtful and theologically informed minds venture to say against it is that it represents but a logical inference from other truths and that in such delicate matters the church may well content itself with summarizing the direct utterances of the Word of God, leaving it to the science of theology to draw the further inferences from these primary data. Even such a statement, however, utterly fails to do justice to the biblical facts. It is true that the Bible also teaches the principle of preterition, by way of implication, as a corollary of certain other fundamental doctrines. No more is necessary than to combine the two single truths, that all saving grace, inclusive of faith, is the supernatural gift of God, and that not all men are made recipients of this gift, to perceive immediately that the ultimate reason why some are saved and other passed by can lie in God alone. In so far every confession which adheres to these two primary facts—and no Calvinistic confession could for a moment hesitate to do so—is also bound to imply the doctrine of preterition. But the Scriptures give us much more than indirect warrant for upholding the principle here at issue. In the first place, it should be observed that the absoluteness with which the Bible subsumes all events under the sovereign decree of God extends to sinful developments as well as to the morally good activities of men, and that consequently the human unbelief of the gospel which prevents the salvation of many is as truly subject to a divine decree as the faith by which others are saved. No matter whether we call this decree and act of preterition, or give it some other name, the general Bible doctrine on the allcomprehensiveness of the divine decree forces us to recognize it as a reality. In the second place, the Scriptures speak in particular terms of that part of the divine decree which has specific reference to the non-salvation of some, terms as strong and unequivocal as any that are used to describe the corresponding act which appoints men unto salvation. It is easy to be misled on this point by the scarcity of biblical statements representing the decree of preterition as an eternal act in the mind of God, especially within the limits of the Old Testament. But a moment's reflection will show that this applies equally much to the Old Testament doctrine of election. Both election and preterition are by preference viewed in the Old Testament as they emerge in the actual control of the issues of history. It is God acting in result of His eternal will, rather than willing in advance of His temporal act what this stage of revelation describes to us. Keeping this in mind, we perceive that preterition is as frequently and as emphatically spoken of as its counterpart, not only in national and collective relations, but also with reference to individuals, sometimes with so little attempt at guarding against possible misapprehensions that the appearance results as if the decree somehow were the efficient cause of unbelief instead of merely permitting and controlling it for its own holy ends as it really does. In the New Testament, while the historical mode of viewing the decree as passing over into realization is not abandoned, the eternal background of the same, as it exists above all time, and ideal world in God, is more clearly revealed. In the third place, the Bible still more pointedly calls attention to the necessary place which preterition occupies in the general decree of God pertaining to salvation, when it defines the act of predestination with eternal life, as is one of its fundamental aspects an elective act by which certain persons are singled out from among a greater number of individuals. The specific sense of both the Hebrew and Greek terms rendered by "election" results from the prominence they both give to the element of discrimination implied in the divine choice. While, therefore, predestination as the appointment to the goal of eternal salvation can be logically conceived without the the correlate of preterition, it is difficult with the idea of election. This idea is of such a nature that it cannot even be completed in thought without positing at the same time the idea of preterition. For this reason it is an utterly futile endeavor to attempt to construe a formula which shall adequately reproduce the scriptural doctrine of election, and yet leave unexpressed the correlated doctrine of preterition. This becomes specially significant in view of the fact that the term "election" strongly preponderates over all others in the scriptural references to the decree of salvation. In a divine revelation, where nothing is insignificant, there must be assumed to exist a special motive for the preference thus given to one among the many terms that stood at the Holy Spirit's disposal. In other words, if the Bible thinks it necessary to teach us not merely that Christians are predestined by free grace into eternal salvation, but also thinks it necessary persistently to reminds us how this appointment of some into life took place from among a number of others who were sovereignly passed by, then this can only mean that in the view of God the principle of preterition is essential to the expression of the most important aspect of the decree of salvation. Nor does the Bible leave us in doubt as to why such great practical importance for our instruction is attached by God to the discriminating element in predestination. The motive is none other than to impress most profoundly upon the mind of believers the conviction of the absolutely gracious character of their redemption. No stronger way of bringing this out is conceivable than by showing in actual experience that under entirely equal conditions, as viewed from the human standpoint, one man is saved, another is left unsaved in his sin. To use the classical statement of the Apostle Paul on this very same problem (Rom. 9:11f.): "For the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the elective purpose of God might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger." This is far from saying that the motive here disclosed is the only one that determines God in the mysterious act of election. There may be many other motives, all equally wise and holy, entering into His choice and which it has not pleased Him to reveal to our finite understanding. But this one motive He has made known to us, and thereby also indirectly taught us, that whatever other reasons for His sovereign decree may exist, they can have nothing to do with anything meritorious possessed by one man above another. Thus the sole purport of the doctrine of preterition as presented to our faith in the Scriptures is the exaltation of the grace of God. Can a church which professes preeminently to uphold the gospel of free grace refuse to echo this part of God's revelation in her confession? And can it be safe for any church to erase from her creed a mode of expressing the divine grace, which God Himself has used to instruct us, on the plea that she deems its use unpopular and inexpedient? Shall man be wiser than God?
Yes,
I replied to the above.
No problem.
If you can believe God is like this,,,,
I can't do anything about it.
I just don't understand how you can accept it...
 
Personally I read the Bible and believe that it, and it alone, contains the truth. John Calvin is respected by many people who are sincere Christians.

Some people are very quick to condemn other Christians, as though they have an understanding of the truth and others do not. I suppose that is what keeps a forum like this going, but there is a difference between doctrinal disagreements and outright slander and rage.

The Biblical people that excelled at this were the Pharisees and Sadducees. Is that what we have become?
 
There's a lot more to it than that Free.
Justification is by grace alone.
Which grace would that be if those that God does not choose end up in hell?
It's great for the chosen, but what about the rest? Where is the justice?

By Christ alone.
Agreed.

By faith alone.
So how does one get that faith?
How could I become saved?
I can't - unless God chooses me to.
And I think you know, that the reformed believe you have to be regenerated first and THEN you become saved and believe.

So you have to be saved to be saved.

You can agree with the above?
The fact that even one person will be saved is an act of God's grace. If it is the case that God chooses who will be saved, based on reasons only he knows, we still know two things: 1) it is all grace that even one person would be chosen, and 2) God is perfectly just. So, by grace he chooses based on reasons that are just. God would never unjustly send people to hell, so we must immediately banish that thought, and so we are held accountable for our actions and rejection of Christ. This results in tension between the idea of free will and God's sovereignty. It could very well be that there is no free will, at least not until one is justified, but even then, it is never absolutely free.

The problem for Arminianism here, as I see it, is that people's hearts are utterly evil and wicked, preferring sin and darkness, and left to their own, people would never choose salvation. In that sense, there is no free will; people are in slavery to sin. So, it is always an act of God's grace upon the heart in justification. It is God, by his Spirit, working upon the hearts of people that any are saved, regardless of whether one is Reformed or Arminian.
 
The fact that even one person will be saved is an act of God's grace. If it is the case that God chooses who will be saved, based on reasons only he knows, we still know two things: 1) it is all grace that even one person would be chosen, and 2) God is perfectly just. So, by grace he chooses based on reasons that are just. God would never unjustly send people to hell, so we must immediately banish that thought, and so we are held accountable for our actions and rejection of Christ. This results in tension between the idea of free will and God's sovereignty. It could very well be that there is no free will, at least not until one is justified, but even then, it is never absolutely free.

The problem for Arminianism here, as I see it, is that people's hearts are utterly evil and wicked, preferring sin and darkness, and left to their own, people would never choose salvation. In that sense, there is no free will; people are in slavery to sin. So, it is always an act of God's grace upon the heart in justification. It is God, by his Spirit, working upon the hearts of people that any are saved, regardless of whether one is Reformed or Arminian.
Too late...so tomorrow.
But I'll tell you this.

Calvinists and the rest of Christians can't both be right.
Your middle of the road doesn't exist.
Either one side is wrong and the other is right,
Or one side is right and the other is wrong.

Will go over your post tomorrow.
 
Too late...so tomorrow.
But I'll tell you this.

Calvinists and the rest of Christians can't both be right.
Your middle of the road doesn't exist.
Either one side is wrong and the other is right,
Or one side is right and the other is wrong.

Will go over your post tomorrow.
Or both could be wrong, or either one could be wrong on one specific point and right in another, which is why humility in believing that one's beliefs could be wrong is needed. What we should not say is that one Christian and the other isn't.
 
Or both could be wrong, or either one could be wrong on one specific point and right in another, which is why humility in believing that one's beliefs could be wrong is needed. What we should not say is that one Christian and the other isn't.
I never said one is christian and not the other.
Our trust in Jesus makes us Christian.

What I'm saying is that, after years of thought, I have started to believe that the reformed teach a different gospel. Maybe this should be a thread?
Need more work? LOL

I'm secure in what I post.
I know 3 denominations and they all agree.
I've left one on purpose and I know what that entails.

We should follow scripture carefully, no matter where it leads us.
 
I never said one is christian and not the other.
Our trust in Jesus makes us Christian.

What I'm saying is that, after years of thought, I have started to believe that the reformed teach a different gospel. Maybe this should be a thread?
If they teach a different gospel, then they are accursed, as Paul says, and cannot be Christian.

We should follow scripture carefully, no matter where it leads us.
Agreed.
 
If they teach a different gospel, then they are accursed, as Paul says, and cannot be Christian.


Agreed.
The teachers are not the laity.
And they might be sincere.
RC Sproul said he had difficulty accepting these doctrine at first because they conflicted.
Tomorrow.
Good night.
 
If they teach a different gospel, then they are accursed, as Paul says, and cannot be Christian.


Agreed.
That is hyperbole. There are many different views about the truth in Christ. Are you seriously saying that if some post views that are different than what is posted , e.g, reformed doctrine, that they are going to eternal hell?
 
Can you speak to me in your own words?

God passes over...
sure.

This is in John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion.

So if God PASSES OVER someone and He thus chooses that person for hell for eternity,

HOW IS THAT JUSTICE?

And let's remember that it's not based ON ANYTHING except the gracious will of God to send most persons to hell.

IOW, He created humans to send most to hell.
You are already missing the point.
God in perfect wisdom and justice does not have to save one person.
We are all guilty. The fact that He saves a multitude is only love and mercy.
He in perfect wisdom elects a multitude. Not one more person, not one less person is going to be saved.
When God elects people it is on purpose.

when you pick out 5 plums to buy at the store.....that is a positive act.
You picked the 5 you did.
You passed over dozens that you did not choose.
You did not harm them. you passed them by.
You did not cast them into the dumpster.

Now when people are cast into hell, it is because they died in sin, and are justly punished for sin that has no covering.
All sin will be punished justly.
The sins of the elect were justly punished in the Divine substitute.
 
You are already missing the point.
God in perfect wisdom and justice does not have to save one person.
We are all guilty. The fact that He saves a multitude is only love and mercy.
He in perfect wisdom elects a multitude. Not one more person, not one less person is going to be saved.
When God elects people it is on purpose.

when you pick out 5 plums to buy at the store.....that is a positive act.
You picked the 5 you did.
You passed over dozens that you did not choose.
You did not harm them. you passed them by.
You did not cast them into the dumpster.

Now when people are cast into hell, it is because they died in sin, and are justly punished for sin that has no covering.
All sin will be punished justly.
The sins of the elect were justly punished in the Divine substitute.
This is correct and it is a hard truth for people to understand.
 
Did God save you? or Did you save yourself?

If God saved you... did He do it by accident? or did He do it on purpose?

If He saved you on purpose...that is election.
 
That is hyperbole. There are many different views about the truth in Christ. Are you seriously saying that if some post views that are different than what is posted , e.g, reformed doctrine, that they are going to eternal hell?
Nope. Please go back are read the discussion to get the meaning of what I said.
 
You are already missing the point.
God in perfect wisdom and justice does not have to save one person.

I know what you mean.
But think of this...
Why do you suppose God created mankind?
He knew we would sin in the Garden.
He knew most would be going to hell.
Do you think God enjoys sending persons to hell?

Can we agree that He doesn't at least?

If Jesus is our atonement, doesn't this mean that God made a plan for mankind to be saved?
Don't you believe that God did this because He loves His creation?
Or do you really believe He DID just create us to go to hell?

We are all guilty. The fact that He saves a multitude is only love and mercy.
He in perfect wisdom elects a multitude. Not one more person, not one less person is going to be saved.
When God elects people it is on purpose.

Now we get to justice.
You say God elected a multitude.
He did this on purpose.
OK. But what was/is His choice based on?

What is your understanding of what justice is?
If God is a just God, He will give to each person the opportunity to be saved or not.

If HE chooses who will be saved, how is that justice?

when you pick out 5 plums to buy at the store.....that is a positive act.
You picked the 5 you did.
You passed over dozens that you did not choose.
You did not harm them. you passed them by.
You did not cast them into the dumpster.

The analogy fails.
If I HAVE THE ABILITY (as God does) and I have the LOVE FOR FRUIT (which God does)
then I would pick ALL the fruit so as not to have to throw any away.

You believe God is sovereign, right?
So that means that He is able to pick all the fruit if He wants to.

But not all the fruit can be chosen.
NOT BECAUSE OF GOD but because they don't all DESERVE to be chosen.
Only the ones that obey God's rule for salvation will be chosen/elected.
The rule for salvation is that we are to respond to God's grace.
We are to believe in Jesus and be a disciple of His.
Voluntarily....
God wants freely given love from us.
He does not want robots loving Him because He made them.

Now when people are cast into hell, it is because they died in sin, and are justly punished for sin that has no covering.
All sin will be punished justly.
The sins of the elect were justly punished in the Divine substitute.
But herein lies the problem with calvinism.
The people that are going to hell died in their sin because God did not choose them...
not because they are being JUSTLY punished.
They weren't given the OPPORTUNITY to be saved.
THIS is NOT justice.

Justice means to give to each what he DESERVES.
How do the lost deserve hell if God didn't give them an opportunity to be saved?
How do they deserve hell if it's GOD that programmed them to be sinners with no opportunity?
 
I know what you mean.
But think of this...
Why do you suppose God created mankind?
He knew we would sin in the Garden.
He knew most would be going to hell.
Do you think God enjoys sending persons to hell?

Can we agree that He doesn't at least?

If Jesus is our atonement, doesn't this mean that God made a plan for mankind to be saved?
Don't you believe that God did this because He loves His creation?
Or do you really believe He DID just create us to go to hell?



Now we get to justice.
You say God elected a multitude.
He did this on purpose.
OK. But what was/is His choice based on?

What is your understanding of what justice is?
If God is a just God, He will give to each person the opportunity to be saved or not.

If HE chooses who will be saved, how is that justice?



The analogy fails.
If I HAVE THE ABILITY (as God does) and I have the LOVE FOR FRUIT (which God does)
then I would pick ALL the fruit so as not to have to throw any away.

You believe God is sovereign, right?
So that means that He is able to pick all the fruit if He wants to.

But not all the fruit can be chosen.
NOT BECAUSE OF GOD but because they don't all DESERVE to be chosen.
Only the ones that obey God's rule for salvation will be chosen/elected.
The rule for salvation is that we are to respond to God's grace.
We are to believe in Jesus and be a disciple of His.
Voluntarily....
God wants freely given love from us.
He does not want robots loving Him because He made them.


But herein lies the problem with calvinism.
The people that are going to hell died in their sin because God did not choose them...
not because they are being JUSTLY punished.
They weren't given the OPPORTUNITY to be saved.
THIS is NOT justice.

Justice means to give to each what he DESERVES.
How do the lost deserve hell if God didn't give them an opportunity to be saved?
How do they deserve hell if it's GOD that programmed them to be sinners with no opportunity?
 
[I know what you mean.
But think of this
]

Let's think about scripture, rather than philosophical speculation.

[Why do you suppose God created mankind?
]

For His own Glory

[He knew we would sin in the Garden.]

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

[He knew most would be going to hell.
]

Where does it say "most are going to hell? I read where a multitude will be saved, more than the sand of the sea,More than the stars in the heaven. Where do you see"MOST"

[Do you think God enjoys sending persons to hell?]

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Why would you or anyone ask such a question when scripture gives a direct answer?


God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, but they are surely going to die!
You must understand all the verses equally, not pick and choose to create a false scenerio.
[Can we agree that He doesn't at least?]

No...The original creation was very good Gen.1:31
[If Jesus is our atonement, doesn't this mean that God made a plan for mankind to be saved?]

Jesus died a Covenant death for All the Father gave to Him, They and they alone will be saved. Jn6;37-44
NO MORE , NO LESS....The others are passed by.
 
pt2
[Now we get to justice.
You say God elected a multitude.]

The bible declares God elected a multitude of dead, guilty sinners....I just believe the bible when it declares this.

[He did this on purpose.]
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.


[OK. But what was/is His choice based on?]
The good pleasure of His PERFECT Will.
When He chose one nation He said this;
Deut7;

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

That was the only reason given. Jer.31 gives a bit more;
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

[What is your understanding of what justice is?]
Justice, is when A Holy God punishes All sin.It is punished in the sinner himself, or the Divine substitute, the Lamb slain.
Everyone believing has their sins paid for and covered by the blood of the Lamb.
The others ...not believing are condemned justly and will spend eternity in the second death.

If God is a just God, He will give to each person the opportunity to be saved or not.
There is no IF...God can only be JUST, HOLY. PERFECT, RIGHTEOUS.
HERE YOU INSERT YOUR CARNAL IDEAS , AND PHILOSOPHY INSTEAD OF READING SCRIPTURE CORRECTLY.
Who says he owes sinners anything?
Who says each person will be given an "equal" opportunity?
That is no where found in the bible. You insert it as if you cannot trust a Perfect God to do right?

gen18
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Do you think God needs you and other non cals to help Him get it right?
If God does not do what you think, did he then get it wrong.
I am answering you line by line...I expect your answer to be the same.

[If HE chooses who will be saved, how is that justice?]

As he has chosen in perfect wisdom and knowledge, that and that alone will be perfect justice as he is the JUST AND THE JUSTIFIER
What could be more just? What you think?? I think not.
[The analogy fails.
If I HAVE THE ABILITY (as God does) and I have the LOVE FOR FRUIT (which God does)
then I would pick ALL the fruit so as not to have to throw any away.

You believe God is sovereign, right?
So that means that He is able to pick all the fruit if He wants to.

But not all the fruit can be chosen.
]

The fruit anaolgy is not intended to be an exhaustive systematic theology.It is simple.
You go to buy fruit, you pick five that you want, leave the rest...that is it.
Nothing about love for the fruit, nothing about what you would do instead.
Theologically, God owns the "rights" to all men. All the earth belongs to Him to do what he wants.
ezk18;
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
jn17

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

[But not all the fruit can be chosen.
NOT BECAUSE OF GOD but because they don't all DESERVE to be chosen]
Major league error here. NO ONE AT ALL deserves to be chosen!!!God has chosen those who do not deserve it, this is at the heart of the gospel.
[Only the ones that obey God's rule for salvation will be chosen/elected.
The rule for salvation is that we are to respond to God's grace.]
As posted, no one would be saved according to this bogus rule;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

[We are to believe in Jesus and be a disciple of His.
Voluntarily....
God wants freely given love from us.
He does not want robots loving Him because He made them.]
NO God makes unwilling sinners willing...psa110: 3
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

[But herein lies the problem with calvinism.
The people that are going to hell died in their sin because God did not choose them...]
No the problem here with you and others is you want to blame God for mans sin.
They go to hell justly for their sins
Here you blame God over and over, rather than the rebel sinner;

[They weren't given the OPPORTUNITY to be saved.
THIS is NOT justice.

Justice means to give to each what he DESERVES.
How do the lost deserve hell if God didn't give them an opportunity to be saved?
How do they deserve hell if it's GOD that programmed them to be sinners with no opportunity?]
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

That is why missions takes place.
 
You are already missing the point.
God in perfect wisdom and justice does not have to save one person.
We are all guilty. The fact that He saves a multitude is only love and mercy.
He in perfect wisdom elects a multitude. Not one more person, not one less person is going to be saved.
When God elects people it is on purpose.

when you pick out 5 plums to buy at the store.....that is a positive act.
You picked the 5 you did.
You passed over dozens that you did not choose.
You did not harm them. you passed them by.
You did not cast them into the dumpster.

Now when people are cast into hell, it is because they died in sin, and are justly punished for sin that has no covering.
All sin will be punished justly.
The sins of the elect were justly punished in the Divine substitute.
I rejoice in the fact that God gave me (us) the means of electing to be a "good plum".
 
I rejoice in the fact that God gave me (us) the means of electing to be a "good plum".
Hello Hopeful,
While we go back and forth on the teaching, we should never forget to give thanks for the "so great salvation" that everyone believing has IN Christ.
We should always be in a learning posture seeking truth in scripture, not outside of it.

2 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
 
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