Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,048.00
Goal
$1,038.00
I was speaking to electedbyhim

He can't seem to find the Covenant of Peace and the Covenant of Grace.
Perhaps you can?

Please remember that the source cannot be reformed, since they do not adhere to what regular, mainline Christians adhere to.

Thanks.
The source was your post, both in post# 982, and #994....you quoted Isa.54:10...that is the source.
it mentions a covenant of peace...you posted the verse

God is a covenant making and covenant keeping God.
Sometimes they are named, other times they taught without a "name"

But like [d]Adam they have violated the covenant;
There they have dealt treacherously with Me.

What covenant is that? What name is this covenant?
 
Why must you be insulting? BTW, you are most definitely not the source of truth. And you have no need to make threats against those who see what you do not.
You have it backwards....look at posts 982/994.
I have made no threats against anyone, so try not to violate the 9th commandment.
 
I never read any Calvinist write this, or teach it.
Post some link to any such teaching, or it is yet another false attack post.
A member stated that calvinism teaches a God that is unloving, unmerciful and unjust.

You replied with the above, stating that this is not taught in calvinism.
OF COURSE it's not taught !!

But this is how the God you worship appears in His attributes.


So,
Please explain how a God that chooses some for heaven and some for eternal damnation
BASED ON NOTHING AT ALL THAT WE CAN KNOW,,,,
but based solely on His will....

Is a
loving
merciful
and just God.

A REAL answer would be appreciated,
Thanks.
 
The source was your post, both in post# 982, and #994....you quoted Isa.54:10...that is the source.
it mentions a covenant of peace...you posted the verse

God is a covenant making and covenant keeping God.
Sometimes they are named, other times they taught without a "name"

But like [d]Adam they have violated the covenant;
There they have dealt treacherously with Me.

What covenant is that? What name is this covenant?
You're turning the question on me?

I still am waiting for you to link me up with a Covenant with the title
COVENANT OF PEACE
COVENANT OF GRACE

Isaiah has the words covenant of peace which means that God makes peace with man....
BUT IT IS NOT an official covenant that is taught.

If you think it is...
PLEASE post the link.

Thanks.
 
You're turning the question on me?

I still am waiting for you to link me up with a Covenant with the title
COVENANT OF PEACE
COVENANT OF GRACE

Isaiah has the words covenant of peace which means that God makes peace with man....
BUT IT IS NOT an official covenant that is taught.

If you think it is...
PLEASE post the link.

Thanks.
see post 1061
 
By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;

8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9






7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4
The source?

And if some are PREDESTINED to eternal life...

Does this not mean that the rest are PREDESTINED to eternal damnation?

Please give me the source so I don't have to look for it.
Thanks.

BTW, in THEOLOGY, which is where we are, it's necessary to always list your source.
Thanks.
 
 
Except that Calvinism teaches that justification is by grace alone, in Christ alone, by faith alone. If you think that is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ, then what else is there to say.
There's a lot more to it than that Free.
Justification is by grace alone.
Which grace would that be if those that God does not choose end up in hell?
It's great for the chosen, but what about the rest? Where is the justice?

By Christ alone.
Agreed.

By faith alone.
So how does one get that faith?
How could I become saved?
I can't - unless God chooses me to.
And I think you know, that the reformed believe you have to be regenerated first and THEN you become saved and believe.

So you have to be saved to be saved.

You can agree with the above?
 
The source?

And if some are PREDESTINED to eternal life...

Does this not mean that the rest are PREDESTINED to eternal damnation?

Please give me the source so I don't have to look for it.
Thanks.

BTW, in THEOLOGY, which is where we are, it's necessary to always list your source.
Thanks.
I thought you would know the 1689 confession of faith as you have said you have studied reformed theology for 7 plus years. You did not answer my question about Hosea 6:7 ?
what covenant is that ? what is that called?
 
Can you speak to me in your own words?

God passes over...
sure.

This is in John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion.

So if God PASSES OVER someone and He thus chooses that person for hell for eternity,

HOW IS THAT JUSTICE?

And let's remember that it's not based ON ANYTHING except the gracious will of God to send most persons to hell.

IOW, He created humans to send most to hell.
 
I thought you would know the 1689 confession of faith as you have said you have studied reformed theology for 7 plus years. You did not answer my question about Hosea 6:7 ?
what covenant is that ? what is that called?
Well, actually it's about 10 years I think.
Same difference.

So you can't just tell me which confession?
There's more than one.
The WCF is 1648. 1689, maybe the London?

It's up to YOU to tell me the source I.

Trouble is, you're just playing games here.
Can't you just be honest and have a real discussion?
 
I thought you would know the 1689 confession of faith as you have said you have studied reformed theology for 7 plus years. You did not answer my question about Hosea 6:7 ?
what covenant is that ? what is that called?
Hosea 6:7????
Where did that come from?

Can you just reply to my posts please?
 

The Biblical Importance of the Doctrine of Preterition Geerhardus Vos The Presbyterian, 70, 36 (September 5, 1900): pp. 9-10. One of the gravest symptoms of the revision movement in the Presbyterian Church today consists in the absence of serious appeal to scriptural authority for the changes of confessional statement that are advocated. From the attitude assumed by man, one would be led to think that no longer the infallible Word of God, but public sentiment, the so-called Christian consciousness, has become the recognized rule of faith among us. Consequently there is reason to fear that the spirit in which revision is sought forebodes greater evil to the church than any material modifications of creed to which revision may lead. Even if the Calvinistic system of doctrine embodied in our standards were seriously mutilated in result of the present movement, so long as the great body of believers feel themselves in conscience bound to yield unquestioning faith to the Bible, there is always hope for a rehabilitation of the principles temporarily abandoned. But when once the sense of allegiance to the Word of God as the only authoritative rule of faith has become weakened, or, while still recognized in theory has ceased to be a living force in the minds of believers, then the hope of a return to the truth once forsaken is reduced to a minimum. Among the elements of Calvinistic belief now under attack on account of the popular disfavor into which they have fallen, the doctrine of preterition occupies a conspicuous place. So far as we are aware it is seldom asserted openly that this doctrine must go because it has no basis in the Scripture. The worst that thoughtful and theologically informed minds venture to say against it is that it represents but a logical inference from other truths and that in such delicate matters the church may well content itself with summarizing the direct utterances of the Word of God, leaving it to the science of theology to draw the further inferences from these primary data. Even such a statement, however, utterly fails to do justice to the biblical facts. It is true that the Bible also teaches the principle of preterition, by way of implication, as a corollary of certain other fundamental doctrines. No more is necessary than to combine the two single truths, that all saving grace, inclusive of faith, is the supernatural gift of God, and that not all men are made recipients of this gift, to perceive immediately that the ultimate reason why some are saved and other passed by can lie in God alone. In so far every confession which adheres to these two primary facts—and no Calvinistic confession could for a moment hesitate to do so—is also bound to imply the doctrine of preterition. But the Scriptures give us much more than indirect warrant for upholding the principle here at issue. In the first place, it should be observed that the absoluteness with which the Bible subsumes all events under the sovereign decree of God extends to sinful developments as well as to the morally good activities of men, and that consequently the human unbelief of the gospel which prevents the salvation of many is as truly subject to a divine decree as the faith by which others are saved. No matter whether we call this decree and act of preterition, or give it some other name, the general Bible doctrine on the allcomprehensiveness of the divine decree forces us to recognize it as a reality. In the second place, the Scriptures speak in particular terms of that part of the divine decree which has specific reference to the non-salvation of some, terms as strong and unequivocal as any that are used to describe the corresponding act which appoints men unto salvation. It is easy to be misled on this point by the scarcity of biblical statements representing the decree of preterition as an eternal act in the mind of God, especially within the limits of the Old Testament. But a moment's reflection will show that this applies equally much to the Old Testament doctrine of election. Both election and preterition are by preference viewed in the Old Testament as they emerge in the actual control of the issues of history. It is God acting in result of His eternal will, rather than willing in advance of His temporal act what this stage of revelation describes to us. Keeping this in mind, we perceive that preterition is as frequently and as emphatically spoken of as its counterpart, not only in national and collective relations, but also with reference to individuals, sometimes with so little attempt at guarding against possible misapprehensions that the appearance results as if the decree somehow were the efficient cause of unbelief instead of merely permitting and controlling it for its own holy ends as it really does. In the New Testament, while the historical mode of viewing the decree as passing over into realization is not abandoned, the eternal background of the same, as it exists above all time, and ideal world in God, is more clearly revealed. In the third place, the Bible still more pointedly calls attention to the necessary place which preterition occupies in the general decree of God pertaining to salvation, when it defines the act of predestination with eternal life, as is one of its fundamental aspects an elective act by which certain persons are singled out from among a greater number of individuals. The specific sense of both the Hebrew and Greek terms rendered by "election" results from the prominence they both give to the element of discrimination implied in the divine choice. While, therefore, predestination as the appointment to the goal of eternal salvation can be logically conceived without the the correlate of preterition, it is difficult with the idea of election. This idea is of such a nature that it cannot even be completed in thought without positing at the same time the idea of preterition. For this reason it is an utterly futile endeavor to attempt to construe a formula which shall adequately reproduce the scriptural doctrine of election, and yet leave unexpressed the correlated doctrine of preterition. This becomes specially significant in view of the fact that the term "election" strongly preponderates over all others in the scriptural references to the decree of salvation. In a divine revelation, where nothing is insignificant, there must be assumed to exist a special motive for the preference thus given to one among the many terms that stood at the Holy Spirit's disposal. In other words, if the Bible thinks it necessary to teach us not merely that Christians are predestined by free grace into eternal salvation, but also thinks it necessary persistently to reminds us how this appointment of some into life took place from among a number of others who were sovereignly passed by, then this can only mean that in the view of God the principle of preterition is essential to the expression of the most important aspect of the decree of salvation. Nor does the Bible leave us in doubt as to why such great practical importance for our instruction is attached by God to the discriminating element in predestination. The motive is none other than to impress most profoundly upon the mind of believers the conviction of the absolutely gracious character of their redemption. No stronger way of bringing this out is conceivable than by showing in actual experience that under entirely equal conditions, as viewed from the human standpoint, one man is saved, another is left unsaved in his sin. To use the classical statement of the Apostle Paul on this very same problem (Rom. 9:11f.): "For the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the elective purpose of God might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger." This is far from saying that the motive here disclosed is the only one that determines God in the mysterious act of election. There may be many other motives, all equally wise and holy, entering into His choice and which it has not pleased Him to reveal to our finite understanding. But this one motive He has made known to us, and thereby also indirectly taught us, that whatever other reasons for His sovereign decree may exist, they can have nothing to do with anything meritorious possessed by one man above another. Thus the sole purport of the doctrine of preterition as presented to our faith in the Scriptures is the exaltation of the grace of God. Can a church which professes preeminently to uphold the gospel of free grace refuse to echo this part of God's revelation in her confession? And can it be safe for any church to erase from her creed a mode of expressing the divine grace, which God Himself has used to instruct us, on the plea that she deems its use unpopular and inexpedient? Shall man be wiser than God?
 
Last edited:
Well, actually it's about 10 years I think.
Same difference.

So you can't just tell me which confession?
There's more than one.
The WCF is 1648. 1689, maybe the London?

It's up to YOU to tell me the source I.

Trouble is, you're just playing games here.
Can't you just be honest and have a real discussion?
I mentioned the 1689 confession of faith, but they all say the same thing.
Hosea 6:7????
Where did that come from?

Can you just reply to my posts please?
post 1061
 
Yes. I see. It's not easy to repeat back this jibberish.

Here's some of it.
Do you understand what it means?
Green is mine.

Nor does the Bible leave us in doubt as to why such great practical importance for our instruction is attached by God to the discriminating element in predestination.

The motive is none other than to impress most profoundly upon the mind of believers the conviction of the absolutely gracious character of their redemption. No stronger way of bringing this out is conceivable than by showing in actual experience that under entirely equal conditions, as viewed from the human standpoint, one man is saved, another is left unsaved in his sin.

The above states that God passes over some for eternal damnation to impress profoundly on those that have been chosen, how absolutely gracious God was in choosing them for salvation. That, in the same condition, He chose some to be saved (the lucky ones) and some to be lost, unsaved in his sin.
Wow.


To use the classical statement of the Apostle Paul on this very same problem (Rom. 9:11f.): "For the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the elective purpose of God might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger."

This confirms that God chooses based on nothing. Wonderful, isn't it?

The children, not yet being born and having done neither good nor bad,
were chosen by God for the above reason in green.

This is far from saying that the motive here disclosed is the only one that determines God in the mysterious act of election. There may be many other motives, all equally wise and holy, entering into His choice and which it has not pleased Him to reveal to our finite understanding.

The above motive is not the only one God may use, but it's one He has made known (I don't know how).

The act of election by God is a mystery so there may be other motives to which we are not made privy --
we cannot know what they are. God, apparently, likes to keep us in the dark. However, they're wise and holy, He just doesn't want us to know what they are.


But this one motive He has made known to us, and thereby also indirectly taught us, that whatever other reasons for His sovereign decree may exist, they can have nothing to do with anything meritorious possessed by one man above another.

God has made known to us this one motive of passing by the lost to show how grateful the saved should be,

but, whatever other reasons God may have to save some and pass over some, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH MERIT that might be possessed by one man over another.
Again, there is no known reason why God chooses.
In the gospel I know, WE CAN KNOW HOW to become saved.
God loves us enough to TELL US HOW to become saved.

IOW, those that choose Jesus have this merit toward salvation...
Those who do not choose Jesus, damn themselves to eternal darkness.
God gives to all THE SAME CHANCE...

Which makes God JUST.

source: Yours...
 
Back
Top