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Bible Study good Friday

dianegcook said:
This comes up every year in one forum or another.

Of course you know that Jews count their 24 hour days differently than we do:

So:
Friday 3:00 PM - 6:00 PM DAY ONE
Saturday TO 6:00 pm DAY TWO (from Fri 6:00 PM)
Sunday 6:00 AM till
discovery of empty tomb DAY THREE (from Sat 6:00 PM)

I believe we need to forget about the 3 nights.
Click to expand...
So you are calling 3pm - 6 pm, 3 hours, one day ,no,
Sunset to sunset, is how they measure the days.
Sunset usually is 6pm, or there about.

So, Wed.3pm-Thursday, sunset, one day, first day
Thursday, sunset ,to Friday sunset second day
Friday sunset to Sat. Sunset, the third day, and of course, Sat.Sunset is the first day of the week, thus rose after Sat.Sunset,first day of the week..Sunday

If ya'll can't see it after this post, I give up, lol.
[/QUOTE]
I'm setting the time at 6:00 pm for sunset. As you've stated, it was probably around that time.

Your problem is that you state Wed 3:'00 pm to THURSDAY, sunset, as day one.

No.

Wed 3:00 PM to Wed 6:00 PM would be DAY ONE...
you wrote Wed 3:00 PM to Thurs sunset as day one...
THAT would be two days.

Think about it.

What for_his_glory wrote is important, but I have to reread it. I had come upon this High Sabbath when first studying about this....If I remember, not every Passover includes a High Sabbath,,,but that year it did.
 
wondering said:
So you are calling 3pm - 6 pm, 3 hours, one day ,no,
Sunset to sunset, is how they measure the days.
Sunset usually is 6pm, or there about.

So, Wed.3pm-Thursday, sunset, one day, first day
Thursday, sunset ,to Friday sunset second day
Friday sunset to Sat. Sunset, the third day, and of course, Sat.Sunset is the first day of the week, thus rose after Sat.Sunset,first day of the week..Sunday

If ya'll can't see it after this post, I give up, lol.
Click to expand...
I'm setting the time at 6:00 pm for sunset. As you've stated, it was probably around that time.

Your problem is that you state Wed 3:'00 pm to THURSDAY, sunset, as day one.

No.

Wed 3:00 PM to Wed 6:00 PM would be DAY ONE...
you wrote Wed 3:00 PM to Thurs sunset as day one...
THAT would be two days.

Think about it.

What for_his_glory wrote is important, but I have to reread it. I had come upon this High Sabbath when first studying about this....If I remember, not every Passover includes a High Sabbath,,,but that year it did.
[/QUOTE]
I have thought about it.
3 hours do not make a day.
Even if you think it was Friday, that would make no sense.
Let;s go with your way,
Friday, 3pm thru Sat, 3pm, is one day
Sat, 3pm thru Sun.3 pm is the second day
Sun.3pm thru Monday pm is the third.
He stated 3 days and 3 nights
When the number of nights is stated as well as the number of days, then the expression ceases to be an idiom, become a literal statement of fact.

Matt.28:1
In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary and the others to see the sepulchre.

Which lines up with what I have stated.
 
dianegcook said:
I'm setting the time at 6:00 pm for sunset. As you've stated, it was probably around that time.

Your problem is that you state Wed 3:'00 pm to THURSDAY, sunset, as day one.

No.

Wed 3:00 PM to Wed 6:00 PM would be DAY ONE...
you wrote Wed 3:00 PM to Thurs sunset as day one...
THAT would be two days.

Think about it.

What for_his_glory wrote is important, but I have to reread it. I had come upon this High Sabbath when first studying about this....If I remember, not every Passover includes a High Sabbath,,,but that year it did.
Click to expand...
I have thought about it.
3 hours do not make a day.
Even if you think it was Friday, that would make no sense.
Let;s go with your way,
Friday, 3pm thru Sat, 3pm, is one day
Sat, 3pm thru Sun.3 pm is the second day
Sun.3pm thru Monday pm is the third.
He stated 3 days and 3 nights
When the number of nights is stated as well as the number of days, then the expression ceases to be an idiom, become a literal statement of fact.

Matt.28:1
In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary and the others to see the sepulchre.

Which lines up with what I have stated.
[/QUOTE]
 
dianegcook
said:
I have thought about it.
3 hours do not make a day.
Even if you think it was Friday, that would make no sense.
Let;s go with your way,
Friday, 3pm thru Sat, 3pm, is one day
Sat, 3pm thru Sun.3 pm is the second day
Sun.3pm thru Monday pm is the third.
He stated 3 days and 3 nights
When the number of nights is stated as well as the number of days, then the expression ceases to be an idiom, become a literal statement of fact.

Matt.28:1
In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary and the others to see the sepulchre.

Which lines up with what I have stated.
[/QUOTE]
Hi D, Something's wrong with the quotes.

I think after this we should stop...because I think I've found the major reason we don't agree.

You said that 3 hours do not make a day...
Instead it does.

When Jesus died at 3 pm on Friday it was Friday.... Day 1
At 6 pm that Friday it became Day 2
At 6 pm on Saturday it became Day 3

I know Jesus said 3 days and 3 nights, but it's an idiom, as JLB said...it was just the way they spoke.

I know this for sure....
If it WAS 3 nights, then it was 4 days.
The Jews counted any part of a day as a day.
Same as in the travel industry...
It's 7 days 6 night
4 days 3 nights
2 days 1 night

What I think I'd like to know for sure, which I don't think I can, is whether Jesus died on Thursday or Friday.

If we count backwards from Sunday, the FIRST day of the week when the empty tomb was found,,,I'd have to say He died on Friday. Do you disagree with this?
 
wondering said:
dianegcook
said:
I have thought about it.
3 hours do not make a day.
Even if you think it was Friday, that would make no sense.
Let;s go with your way,
Friday, 3pm thru Sat, 3pm, is one day
Sat, 3pm thru Sun.3 pm is the second day
Sun.3pm thru Monday pm is the third.
He stated 3 days and 3 nights
When the number of nights is stated as well as the number of days, then the expression ceases to be an idiom, become a literal statement of fact.

Matt.28:1
In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary and the others to see the sepulchre.

Which lines up with what I have stated.
Click to expand...
Hi D, Something's wrong with the quotes.

I think after this we should stop...because I think I've found the major reason we don't agree.

You said that 3 hours do not make a day...
Instead it does.

When Jesus died at 3 pm on Friday it was Friday.... Day 1
At 6 pm that Friday it became Day 2
At 6 pm on Saturday it became Day 3

I know Jesus said 3 days and 3 nights, but it's an idiom, as JLB said...it was just the way they spoke.

I know this for sure....
If it WAS 3 nights, then it was 4 days.
The Jews counted any part of a day as a day.
Same as in the travel industry...
It's 7 days 6 night
4 days 3 nights
2 days 1 night

What I think I'd like to know for sure, which I don't think I can, is whether Jesus died on Thursday or Friday.

If we count backwards from Sunday, the FIRST day of the week when the empty tomb was found,,,I'd have to say He died on Friday. Do you disagree with this?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I disagree.

I know also about idioms.
The Hebrew day began at sunset the day was reckoned from one sunset to another ."The 12 hours "in the day, John 11:9, being reckoned from sunrise, and the 12 hours of the night from sunset.
As in Gen. An evening-morning was used for a whole day of 24 hours.
A night and a day in 2Cor.11:25 denotes a complete day.
So in Jonah 1:17, when Jonah was in the fish's belly 3 days and 3 nights means exactly what it says, and that this can be the only expression in Matt.12:40, 16:4, Luke 11:30.

When Esther, Est.4:16, says, fast for me, neither eat nor drink 3 days, , meaning 3 complete days, because she adds (being a Jewess) night or day.
And when it is written that the fast ended on the third day, Est.5:1, the third day, must have succeeded and included the third night.

Why does it really matter, Easter and Passover is 2 different things?
Most of the time, Passover doesn't fall during Easter, which is a pagan holiday by the way.
I'm glad He arose!

To each his own, good talking to you.

Ps, yes, something is wrong with the quotes, I noticed that yesterday, I hope they fix it soon, lol.
 
wondering said:
I know this for sure....
If it WAS 3 nights, then it was 4 days.
Click to expand...


So true.

Otherwise to be three literal nights Jesus would have had to risen in the night, which means the fourth day started.


Simple common sense.



JLB
 
JLB said:
Otherwise to be three literal nights Jesus would have had to risen in the night, which means the fourth day started.
Click to expand...
Let's go first to the entombment of Christ:
MATTHEW 27
57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

This tells us that Joseph entombed Christ after the Thursday the 15th of Nisan had already begun[when even(ing) was come]

So Christ was in the tomb all day on the 15th (Thursday)
Then on the 16th (Friday). Then on the 17th (the regular Sabbath). That is three days and three nights. And after sunset on Saturday, the first day of the week had begun. What we call Sunday. And it is more than likely that Christ arose after midnight but before dawn.

The only reason people are confused today is because our days begin at midnight. The Jewish days began and end at sunset.
 
Nathan12 said:
Let's go first to the entombment of Christ:
MATTHEW 27
57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

This tells us that Joseph entombed Christ after the Thursday the 15th of Nisan had already begun[when even(ing) was come]

So Christ was in the tomb all day on the 15th (Thursday)
Then on the 16th (Friday). Then on the 17th (the regular Sabbath). That is three days and three nights. And after sunset on Saturday, the first day of the week had begun. What we call Sunday. And it is more than likely that Christ arose after midnight but before dawn.

The only reason people are confused today is because our days begin at midnight. The Jewish days began and end at sunset.
Click to expand...
N, Everybody posting on here knows the days ended at sundown...we're all figuring on about 6 PM.

If Jesus died on Thursday at 3 PM and rose on the 1st day of the week...that would make 4 days. Three hours after He died, it was a new day...
 
dianegcook said:
Hi D, Something's wrong with the quotes.

I think after this we should stop...because I think I've found the major reason we don't agree.

You said that 3 hours do not make a day...
Instead it does.

When Jesus died at 3 pm on Friday it was Friday.... Day 1
At 6 pm that Friday it became Day 2
At 6 pm on Saturday it became Day 3

I know Jesus said 3 days and 3 nights, but it's an idiom, as JLB said...it was just the way they spoke.

I know this for sure....
If it WAS 3 nights, then it was 4 days.
The Jews counted any part of a day as a day.
Same as in the travel industry...
It's 7 days 6 night
4 days 3 nights
2 days 1 night

What I think I'd like to know for sure, which I don't think I can, is whether Jesus died on Thursday or Friday.

If we count backwards from Sunday, the FIRST day of the week when the empty tomb was found,,,I'd have to say He died on Friday. Do you disagree with this?
ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
Yes, I disagree.

I know also about idioms.
The Hebrew day began at sunset the day was reckoned from one sunset to another ."The 12 hours "in the day, John 11:9, being reckoned from sunrise, and the 12 hours of the night from sunset.
As in Gen. An evening-morning was used for a whole day of 24 hours.
A night and a day in 2Cor.11:25 denotes a complete day.
So in Jonah 1:17, when Jonah was in the fish's belly 3 days and 3 nights means exactly what it says, and that this can be the only expression in Matt.12:40, 16:4, Luke 11:30.

When Esther, Est.4:16, says, fast for me, neither eat nor drink 3 days, , meaning 3 complete days, because she adds (being a Jewess) night or day.
And when it is written that the fast ended on the third day, Est.5:1, the third day, must have succeeded and included the third night.

Why does it really matter, Easter and Passover is 2 different things?
Most of the time, Passover doesn't fall during Easter, which is a pagan holiday by the way.
I'm glad He arose!

To each his own, good talking to you.

Ps, yes, something is wrong with the quotes, I noticed that yesterday, I hope they fix it soon, lol.
Click to expand...
I'm glad He arose too!

Did you see Risen ?
It's great. Watch it if you haven't.

8501
 
According to the higher courts...

On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald . . . cried, “He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy.”

Sanhedrin 43a

I am assuming you all understand the Sanhedrin controlled the Jewish courts.

I have a book is like to quote from. But to preface, the Essenes who were a devout Jewish sect, believed they had the correct lunar calendar while Jerusalem used the Babylonian calendar. This helps explain the contridiction between Johns Gospel where Jesus dies as the Passover lamb as the Passover lamb in the temple is being slaughtered while the other three gospel writers who have Jesus eating the Passover meal.

And I quote from page 219 and 220 from Hillel and Jesus.

Living in such a Essene surroundings, it is not surprising that Jesus chose to celebrate his Passover meal according to the Essene calendar. Here may lie the solution to a puzzle that has been intriguing exegetes for a long time. According to the synoptic gospels, the Last Supper of Jesus was a Passover meal ( Mark 14:12, Matthew 26:16, Luke 22:15 ) for the Evangelist John it was a meal before the Passover feast (John 13:1 according to John, the trial of Jesus took place before Passover; According to the synoptics, it followed it. In John's View the high priests and the scribes " did not go into the praetorium themselves so as not to be defiled and made unable to eat the Passover" (John 18:28)

Pilot recalls that he was prepared to release a prisoner for Passover (John 18:39-40.)

Good Friday was preparation day and to prevent the bodies from remaining on the cross during the Sabbath since that Sabbath was a day of special solemnity ( John 19:31) the burial took place that evening.

In 30 c e, when Jesus was crucified, the temple Passover was on a Sabbath. It was extremely important for j o h a n n i n e Christology to point out that Jesus died (as the Lamb of God) while the Lambs were slaughtered in the temple (John 19:36 ). The meal in the house of Simon the leper, as John sees it, had already taken place " 6 days before Passover" (John 12-1 ), while the synoptics it was "two days before Passover" mark 14:1). The synoptics and John have two different passover's in mind for the first, it began on the eve of Wednesday, for the other, on the eve of the Sabbath.
 
wondering said:
N, Everybody posting on here knows the days ended at sundown...we're all figuring on about 6 PM.
Click to expand...
I believe that the entombment of Christ is the answer, and that began on Nisan 15. Jonah was "entombed" in the belly of the whale three days and three nights. So that is how this should be reckoned.
 
StoveBolts said:
Also, you can look at Passover calendars.

I'm of the view of 30AD, which puts Passover on a Friday. 31 AD would be a Wednedsay... Too many days...
Click to expand...
Hi SB,
I don't think this is of much importance,,,but I would like to understand the HISTORY better.

Please confirm: You're saying Jesus died on a Thursday?

But we still have a problem because you put Passover at 30 AD...
So you're assuming Jesus was born at 27 AD, which is right, I believe -- but can we know to the YEAR? Could it have been 26 AD or 28 AD?

I remember that the date of Jesus' birth is not certain...
 
Nathan12 said:
I believe that the entombment of Christ is the answer, and that began on Nisan 15. Jonah was "entombed" in the belly of the whale three days and three nights. So that is how this should be reckoned.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry N, please repeat when was Nisan 15...
And do you mean at 3:00 PM after death?

And why do I have Nissan 14 in mind?

(and please don't answer that if I don't know,,,who can!)
 
.
I highly recommend that everybody immediately stop all the debating about Nisan dates and just go with simple arithmetic.

Seeing as how a preponderance of textual data testifies that Jesus Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life during the third day rather than after the third day was over and done with, then start counting back three days and three nights from there. Here's how.

According to Luke 24:21-23, the third day was Sunday. So:

Sunday = 3rd day
Saturday = 2nd day
Friday = 1st day

Saturday night = 3rd night
Friday night = 2nd night
Thursday night = 1st night

DO NOT count crucifixion day as one of the three days. Wait until the Jews' preparation for Passover comes to an end and they're ready to sit down and dine upon their paschal lambs before starting your chronology or it won't come out right. It's essential to leave crucifixion day set aside for the slaughtering of lambs; including the one on the cross.

NOTE: Quite a few of the Christians I encounter online are unaware that there are four sabbaths during Passover week: two routine sabbaths and two special sabbaths. The routine sabbaths are fixed; but the special sabbaths float. The first of the two special sabbaths commences the very night of the paschal lamb dinner. That particular sabbath is a very, very holy sabbath; far more holy than a routine sabbath.
_
 
Dant02 said:
.
I highly recommend that everybody immediately stop all the debating about Nisan dates and just go with simple arithmetic.

Seeing as how a preponderance of textual data testifies that Jesus Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life during the third day rather than after the third day was over and done with, then start counting back three days and three nights from there. Here's how.

According to Luke 24:21-23, the third day was Sunday. So:

Sunday = 3rd day
Saturday = 2nd day
Friday = 1st day

Saturday night = 3rd night
Friday night = 2nd night
Thursday night = 1st night

DO NOT count crucifixion day as one of the three days. Wait until the Jews' preparation for Passover comes to an end and they're ready to sit down and dine upon their paschal lambs before starting your chronology or it won't come out right. It's essential to leave crucifixion day set aside for the slaughtering of lambs; including the one on the cross.

NOTE: Quite a few of the Christians I encounter online are unaware that there are four sabbaths during Passover week: two routine sabbaths and two special sabbaths. The routine sabbaths are fixed; but the special sabbaths float. The first of the two special sabbaths commences the very night of the paschal lamb dinner. That particular sabbath is a very, very holy sabbath; far more holy than a routine sabbath.
_
Click to expand...
I agree that we should stop....
But you don't make it clear when Jesus died.
Was it on Thursday or Friday?

Seems like you said Fri and then changed to Thurs...
 
wondering said:
I tried to avoid this, but got caught in....as I usually do.
Everything you posted is good and you even hit on the High Sabbath which I had mentioned.

The problem here is this:

HOW do you know that Jesus was raised on Sunday very early in the morning. If so, when did He got to Hades?
Click to expand...

wondering

Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

The first day of the week is Sunday that begins after sunset Saturday. Remember Sabbath starts at Friday at sunset an ends Saturday at sunset, which begins a new day being Sunday.

Here we see the women coming to the tomb of Jesus very early in the morning, but not finding Him there. So, sometime between Saturday after sunset when the Sabbath ended and early morning before the women came bringing the spices which they had prepared, Jesus was risen from the tomb.

Jesus never went down to hell to preach as scripture says He went to preach to the spirits in prison. When Jesus laid in the tomb for three days his body was dead, but His spirit was very much alive. In 1 Peter 3:19 it says Jesus being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison. Scripture does not say what Jesus preached to them, but some speculate that He was proclaiming to these fallen angels that Satan had no victory over His death.

The spirits in prison that Jesus went to preach to are those angels that are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. These angels are separate from the third Satan gathered with him as these angels bound in chains kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, Jude 1:5-7.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?...............The lower parts of he earth just means the grave.
 
wondering,
I'll share my uncertainties on specifically which day Jesus died. I will use John's Gospel because as mentioned earlier, I believe he uses the Temple Calendar which uses the Babalonian solar calendar where the other Gospel writers use the Lunar calendar which the Essenes used. I will also reference the Calendar I posted earlier.

Per Leviticus 23, there are high Sabbaths which fall outside of the last day of the week ( Saturday).
14th is not a Sabbath, but the 15th is, along with 22nd because the 15th is the first day of the festival of unleavened bread. This makes the 14th a preparation day for Passover and the meal is eaten on the 15th... Likewise, every Friday is a preparation day for Saturday as illustrated when they are Manna. Also, remember, their day starts at evening. To boot, Jews call both the 14th and the 15th Passover, although the 15th is a Sabbath, but because they meld the two dates, it can be confusing if your not aware of it.

According to the Temple calendar, If the 14th was on a Wednesday, then Jesus died on a Wednesday evening. Thursday would have been a Sabbath as well as Saturday. This fits with three days and three nights depending where you start counting.

If the 14th was a Friday, Jesus died on the evening of Friday and Saturday is the only Sabbath. Note: Jesus would have been in the grave prior to the 15th.

As stated earlier, it really depends on when you start counting.

Keeping in mind the 15th is always a Sabbath and the evening of the 14th is extended into the 15th, it can be difficult to find a start point for counting.
14, 15 (Sabbath), 16th.

Also, not exactly sure, but the calendar was manipulated so the 14th couldn't land on a mom, wed or Friday or else Yom Kippur would fall on a Sunday....
 
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