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Bible Study good Friday

All you have been counting is days as you have never mentioned the night.


I have mentioned it several times but I guess you didn’t see it.


Three days and three nights is an idiomatic phrase that refers to 3 consecutive days.


It’s not possible for Jesus to spend three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


Three nights means four days.


No matter what day you believe He was crucified, whether Thursday or Friday, He can’t possibly have been in the heart of the earth, or the tomb for three nights, without being there 4 days.


If He was was crucified on Thursday around 10:00 and suffered and finally died around 3:00 PM, and then put in the tomb before the Sabbath began at 6:00, then Thursday is day 1.


Friday starts at 6:00 PM on Thursday, so that night is the first night.


Friday is day 2 and Saturday begins at 6:00 PM Friday evening, so that Friday night is night number 2.


That would make Saturday the third day, and by 6:00 PM Saturday, Sunday begins, which is day 4, and Saturday night is the third night.


Recap:

Thursday is day 1
Thursday 6:00 PM starts Day 2 (night 1)

Friday is day 2
Friday 6:00 PM starts day 3 (night 2)

Saturday is day 3
Saturday 6:00 PM starts day 4 (night 3)




JLB
 
I've been gone part of the day and have a lot to catch up in here. This is what I have been studying the last couple of days. StoveBolts you will be interested in this.

stevemorse.org – calculating Easter using the Jewish calendar

Resurrection Day (Easter) falls on the first Sunday following the Paschal full moon. The Paschal full moon is the first full moon on or after the 21st of Abib (March). The days would change, but to keep Passover to the original date of the 14th of Nisan found in Exodus Chapter 12.

In Exodus Chapter 12 it wasn’t until the middle of the 2nd month, Nisan (April), in the land of Sin (Sinai) that God instructed Israel on the 7th day Sabbath cycle. The New Testament describes Jesus death and resurrection as a shadow picture of the Exodus events. Even John the Baptist testified that Jesus was the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world.



The Exodus Day – William Struse

www.the13thenumeration.com

Here is the chronological of Exodus Chapter 12.


Israel killed their Passover lambs on the 14th of Nisan (day of preparation) at evening just before sunset which began the 15th of Nisan. The night beginning the 15th of Nisan they ate the Passover leaving nothing of it until the morning as they were commanded. When the morning of the 15th came Israel fully dressed, shod, and with much treasures from their Egyptian neighbor’s, departed Rameses. Numbers 33:3-8.

Exodus 16 established a basis for the weekly Sabbath cycle.

After arriving in the land of Sin (Sinai) one month after the exodus Israel was fully aware of the reality of their new life. The certainty of servitude had been replaced with the uncertainty of a life that would require faith.

And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness because in Egypt they were in servitude to Rameses who fed them as they never went hungry. Now in the wilderness they thought they would starve to death. So God sent them the “bread from heaven”, but the gift came with conditions. They were only allowed to gather the “manna” for six days. On the seventh day they were required to rest.

In summary, Israel came into the land of Sin (Sinai) on the 15th day of the second month (Nisan). The following morning God gave them “manna”. For six days they gathered this bread of heaven and rested on the 7th day. So the 16th day of Nisan was the first day of the week.

Now turning back to the Exodus chronology we can count the days backwards to the first month of Abib. By this reckoning the Passover lambs were killed just before sundown on the 5th day of the week (14th Nisan) A few hours later on the 15th of Nisan the Feast of the Unleavened Bread began with the Passover supper beginning the 6th day of the week.


None of this shows which day of the week, in the time of Jesus, that the Passover fell on.


What day of the week did Moses and the children of Israel depart from Egypt?


The term The Sabbath refers to the 7th Day of the week, which begins on the evening of the sixth day.




JLB
 
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No less than three passages in the New Testament verify that Christ ate that particular Passover right along with his men.

Matt 26:17-23
Mark 14:12-18
Luke 22:7-15


NOTE: Jesus was born under the jurisdiction of the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. (Luke 2:21, Gal 4:4)

That covenant makes excommunication the penalty for neglecting to eat the Passover when there is no covenanted reason not to.

Num 9:13 . .The man that is clean, and is not in a journey, and forbeareth to keep the passover, even the same soul shall be cut off from among his people: because he brought not the offering of The Lord in his appointed season, that man shall bear his sin.

In order for Jesus to retain his qualifications as a lamb without blemish or spot, he had to eat the Passover. But the interesting thing about it is that Jesus ate that particular Passover not only because the covenant required him to, but because he really, really wanted to.

Luke 22:14-15 . . And when the hour had come, he reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer"

That wasn't Christ's last and final Passover; he plans on eating it yet again in the future.

Luke 22:16 . .I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
_

The Jerusalem Post
The Last Supper - A Passover Seder?

All three use the phrase "prepare for our Passover supper", but actually the last supper took place shortly before Passover began. The last supper was not a Seder, but a feast that Jesus constituted with His disciples as it was called "the havurah".

Matthew, Mark and Luke all say the first day of the feast of unleavened bread. There had to be

John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. 2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

This was not a Seder that John was talking about as the last supper took place before the feast of Passover and there were elements missing for it to be a Seder. Seder elements lacking in the Synoptic gospels are the preparation of the paschal sacrifice, explicit reference to the matzah, maror and haroset. Wine is mentioned, but not four cups so this was not a Seder of Passover.

There is confusion about the timing of the supper. Luke thinks it was the day of unleavened bread. Matthew and Mark speak of the first day of unleavened bread. In Temple times the paschal sacrifice took place a day earlier. It's probable this was a 24 hour period as the day of Passover was on the 14th of Nisan being Thursday after sunset.

I will repost he below again:
Here is an unknown fact that most Christians and even some Jews have never heard of. It's called seudah maphsehkey which means "the last supper" that took place on the 13th of Nisan being a Wednesday evening at sunset that began the next day being Thursday. This is the last supper Jesus would eat with His disciples before He was betrayed by Judas, Matthew 26:17-29. This took place before the beginning of Passover that started on the 14th of Nisan, Thursday at sunset, before the Festival of Unleavened Bread that followed immediately on the 15th of Nisan being Friday at sunset that started the Saturday High Sabbath.
 
We can certainly consider that Friday began Thursday evening, which includes a literal Thursday night, however He wasn’t in the heart of the earth on Thursday night.
Where was He then if not in the heart of the earth on Thursday night?
 
i dont i said < by man calendar > you missed my opening remark nope that is your theory i do accept the birth the death burial resurrection by faith nope not confused at all please dont assume what i am saying i am not railing against your so called study . i challenged your remark of using the bible alone as very dangerousnopers i sure don't and never did might i add this is exactly what i done in theology before you banned me . so i challenge in this section

Ezra, of all people with you being a Pastor I would think you would want to learn that of what you preach to others. Deep studies are not for everyone's cup of tea, so be it. I, like StoveBolts wondering and many others like the deeper studies as it brings in the full context of all truths not seen before. Actually everything I have given comes from Exodus Chapter 12 and 16 that gives us the exact date for Passover as the Exodus is a shadow in the OT of Christ in the NT being our passover Lamb.

Since you are not interested in all of this then why bother even coming in here and making the remarks you are making. It's a discussion that many of us find interesting. Does it have any affect on Christ being raised on Sunday which we all agree on, no, but yet it is important enough for some of us to discuss the festivals and sabbaths for our understanding of them.
 
They did not lay Jesus in the tomb on the first night, as He was in the tomb before the evening (6:00 PM) on the first day.



JLB

I really do not understand why they use 6pm as this time of year in April sunset is much later. But even still, He died at 3pm on Thursday and later that evening before sunset was laid in His grave which He laid in until sometime after Saturday at sunset as the women who came early on Sunday morning found the stone rolled away and Jesus missing from the tomb. From Thursday before sunset to Saturday at sunset that would start the next day being Sunday is three nights.

Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night = 3 nights.
One could also say evening instead of night as it would make more sense.
 
None of this shows which day of the week, in the time of Jesus, that the Passover fell on.


What day of the week did Moses and the children of Israel depart from Egypt?


The term The Sabbath refers to the 7th Day of the week, which begins on the evening of the sixth day.




JLB

Read Exodus Chapter 12 and 16 as the first month on the Hebrew Lunar Solar calendar is Abib/Nisan being March/April on our Gregorian calendar
 
Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night = 3 nights.


Amen. I agree. That’s three nights.

However that means:
Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday morning He rose.

That’s 4 Four days.


The Hebrew mindset is today converges with tomorrow at 6:00 PM. Yesterday and today converge at 6:00 PM



Yesterday
(6:00 PM Evening) Last Night
Today.
6:00 PM Evening) Tonight
Tomorrow


Three days and three nights is an idiomatic expression for three consecutive days, not three literal nights.


Three literal days and three literal nights is mathematically impossible.




JLB
 
Read Exodus Chapter 12 and 16 as the first month on the Hebrew Lunar Solar calendar is Abib/Nisan being March/April on our Gregorian calendar


What day of the week did Moses and the children of Israel depart from Egypt?

Thursday or Friday?




JLB
 
Thursday and later that evening before sunset was laid in His grave which He laid in until sometime after Saturday at sunset


That’s four days and three nights.

Day four began on Saturday at 6:00.



There is only 1 Sabbath mentioned in reference to His death and resurrection.

The Sabbath.

The day before the first day of the week.

The Sabbath is the 7th day.



JLB
 
I've been gone part of the day and have a lot to catch up in here. This is what I have been studying the last couple of days. StoveBolts you will be interested in this.

stevemorse.org – calculating Easter using the Jewish calendar

Resurrection Day (Easter) falls on the first Sunday following the Paschal full moon. The Paschal full moon is the first full moon on or after the 21st of Abib (March). The days would change, but to keep Passover to the original date of the 14th of Nisan found in Exodus Chapter 12.

In Exodus Chapter 12 it wasn’t until the middle of the 2nd month, Nisan (April), in the land of Sin (Sinai) that God instructed Israel on the 7th day Sabbath cycle. The New Testament describes Jesus death and resurrection as a shadow picture of the Exodus events. Even John the Baptist testified that Jesus was the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world.



The Exodus Day – William Struse

www.the13thenumeration.com

Here is the chronological of Exodus Chapter 12.


Israel killed their Passover lambs on the 14th of Nisan (day of preparation) at evening just before sunset which began the 15th of Nisan. The night beginning the 15th of Nisan they ate the Passover leaving nothing of it until the morning as they were commanded. When the morning of the 15th came Israel fully dressed, shod, and with much treasures from their Egyptian neighbor’s, departed Rameses. Numbers 33:3-8.

Exodus 16 established a basis for the weekly Sabbath cycle.

After arriving in the land of Sin (Sinai) one month after the exodus Israel was fully aware of the reality of their new life. The certainty of servitude had been replaced with the uncertainty of a life that would require faith.

And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness because in Egypt they were in servitude to Rameses who fed them as they never went hungry. Now in the wilderness they thought they would starve to death. So God sent them the “bread from heaven”, but the gift came with conditions. They were only allowed to gather the “manna” for six days. On the seventh day they were required to rest.

In summary, Israel came into the land of Sin (Sinai) on the 15th day of the second month (Nisan). The following morning God gave them “manna”. For six days they gathered this bread of heaven and rested on the 7th day. So the 16th day of Nisan was the first day of the week.

Now turning back to the Exodus chronology we can count the days backwards to the first month of Abib. By this reckoning the Passover lambs were killed just before sundown on the 5th day of the week (14th Nisan) A few hours later on the 15th of Nisan the Feast of the Unleavened Bread began with the Passover supper beginning the 6th day of the week.

Yes, finally somebody that understands the story!
Just a couple of things to note, if you visit Patterns of Evidence and pillage through their site, perhaps purchase their videos, you will find out that Rameses was not the Pharoh and that timeline does not fit any archeological evidence. The archeology supports a much earlier timeframe.

Second, I'm not sure how you came up with the 16th being the first day of the week in Sinia. How did that come about?

One more thought, which is a repeat of what I said earlier. God told them to eat the lamb the day it was slaughtered. If you run a hard cold line in the sand between the 14th and the 15th, it would be impossible for them to keep the commandment.

What most people don't understand, mostly because we don't live under the Mosiac law and because we don't live under it, we don't know most of them, let alone how to navigate each day under them. What I have learned is that the law not only taught what sin is, but it also taught discernment and often, lines get blurred. David and his men eating the shewbread reserved for the priest is a prime example.

Coming full circle, the Angel of Death came at midnight, so, although they are the meal on the 15th, that night is also considered the night of the 14th, otherwise, there is no way they could have eaten it according to Gods command.

This is foreign thinking to us, and it goes against our rational minds. Our culture likes to draw hard lines that don't move. We are a people who enjoy knowing fixed ideas and stable maxims.

But this isn't about how we rationalize or see things. It's about getting out of ourselves and truly understanding how another culture outside of our own operated to shape their thinking.

In other words, its not about us imposing our thinking upon them to meet our satisfaction of understanding things our way, but it's about us surrendering our way of thinking to better understand theirs.

In conclusion, a Jewish day looks like this.
Night, Day
On the 14th it looks like this
Night, Day, Night

In short, because the night of the 15th also becomes the night of the 14th in Jewish thought, it satisfies Jesus words when he said 3 days and 3 nights.

I am not trying to prove I am right, but I am bringing new information to the discussion that can be verified as accurate.
 
We have scripture to prove Pilate was a real person, in that time.



JLB
You totally skipped over everything else I wrote.
Listen, I'm not going to play your silly word games.

We both agree that Jesus died on a Friday and rose on a Sunday.

Why then do you have a problem with my words and what have I said that you can refute with any biblical evidence?
 
For immediate gratification, read Acts 9:20-26 keeping the new time frame in mind that Paul gave you in Gal 1.

unfortunately, I'm driving home and have band practice. I'll try to pick this back up tomorrow.

I will leave you with this, if you want to support Friday being Nisan 14, then you will have to work all of your biblical dates to come back to 27 or 30 CE as these are the only two dates where Passover occurred on a Friday. The 27th doesn't work due to the Emperor and Herodians...
I can agree to 30 AD. It would work out with Jesus being born in 3 BC... A mistake was made when making the Roman calendar by the man that had been put in charge to do this (forget his name right now)...they had meant to start 1 AD with Christ's birth...but instead it turns out with the mistake in the calendar that we have to put His birth BEFORE 1 AD...so 3 AD is about right.

Everything DOES mesh together and we cannot find all the information ONLY in the bible...for instance, THIS information is not in the bible,,,it's roman history.

I'll try to find a link for those interested.

Will be reading Acts in about an hour from now...
Acts 9:20-26


Here's the link:

The guy who developed the way we reckon years was a 6th-century monk named Dionysius Exiguus ("Dennis the Short").

He apparently thought Christ was born in 1 B.C. (actually, it's a bit more complex than that, but we'll keep this simple).

Today most think this date is a little too late and that the evidence supports a date a few years earlier.

6-7 B.C.?

For a little more than a century, the idea has been popular that Jesus was born in 6-7 B.C.

The reasoning goes like this: Jesus was born late in the reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4 B.C.

Furthermore, the wise men saw the star rise in the east two years before they came to visit Jerusalem, where they met Herod.

Back up two years from 4 B.C. and you get 6 B.C.

Back up another year in case Herod didn't die immediately after they visited, and you get 7 B.C.

So: 6 or 7 B.C.

The problem, as we saw in a previous post, is that the arguments that Herod died in 4 B.C. are exceptionally weak.

3-4 B.C.?

Let's take the same logic as above and plug in the more likely date of Herod's death.

As we saw in a previous post, the evidence points to him dying in 1 B.C.

So . . . back up two years from that and you get 3 B.C.

Back up another year for cushion and you get 4 B.C.

Thus: 3-4 B.C.

That's not an unreasonable estimate, but there are two problems with it:


  1. It's got a couple of problematic assumptions.
  2. Other evidence, including other evidence from the Bible, suggests it's a little too early.
The problematic assumptions are that the star was first visible in the east at the moment of Jesus' birth and that it was visible for a full two years prior to the magi's arrival.

The first of these assumptions is problematic (among other reasons) because its appearance could be connected with another point in Jesus' life, such as his conception. If that were the case, you'd need to shave nine months off to find the point of his birth.

It's also problematic because Matthew doesn't say that the star appeared two years earlier. What he says is that Herod killed all the baby boys in Bethlehem that were two years old and under, in accord with the time he learned from the magi.

That means that there is some approximating going on here.

Herod would certainly want to make sure the child was dead, and he would err on the side of . . . well, the side of caution from his perspective.

That is, he would to some degree over-estimate how old the child might be in order to be sure of wiping him out.

Thus all the boys two and under were killed.

That means Jesus was at most two years old, but he was likely younger than that.

What may well have happened is Herod may have been told that the star appeared a year ago and he decided to kill all the boys a year on either side of this to make sure of getting the right one.

And then there's the fact that the ancients often counted parts of a year as a full year in their reckoning, so "two years" might mean "one year plus part of a second year."

All this suggests that two years was the maximum amount of time earlier that Jesus was born, and likely it was less than that.

Thus . . .

2-3 B.C.?

This date would be indicated if we start with Herod's death in 1 B.C. and then, taking into account the factors named above, backed up only one year, suggesting 2 B.C.

Then, if we back up another year to allow for the fact Herod didn't die immediately, that would suggest 3 B.C.

So, sometime between 2-3 B.C. would be reasonable, based on what we read in Matthew.

Do we have other evidence suggesting this date?

We do.

source: https://www.quora.com/How-can-anyone-know-what-date-Jesus-was-born


The above is in tune with what I had learned...(years ago).
 
.
Outside sources give us reliable dates that we can use to validate the truthfulness of the Bible. We can prove Pilate and Tiberius, among others, that they were real people in a real period of time.


The historical reality of one figure cannot be used to prove the historical reality of another figure by association; i.e. just because they're written into the same story. Some of the best fiction is written around real people.

Pilate can be proven historically that he was a prelate in Judea, but it cannot be proven historically that a Jesus Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life during Pilate's term in office. All we have for evidence are the pages of a holy book whose validity is no more credible than the Book of Mormon, The Talmud, The Vedas, or the Koran.

We today are at a disadvantage. Thomas was given empirical proof that Jesus' dead body was back from the grave. We have no such proof; and according to the Bible, that's the way God wants it.

John 20:29 . .Then Jesus told Thomas: Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

The Greek word translated "blessed" is makarios (mak-ar'-ee-os) which means fortunate and/or well off.

In other words: if people can believe that Jesus Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life sans any solid evidence to prove it; then they are seen by the Bible as among the fortunate; while seen by the world as among the gullible.

1Cor 1:22-23 . . For indeed Jews ask for signs, and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified; to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness.

1Cor 2:4-5 . . My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
_
 
.



The historical reality of one figure cannot be used to prove the historical reality of another figure by association; i.e. just because they're written into the same story. Some of the best fiction is written around real people.

Pilate can be proven historically that he was a prelate in Judea, but it cannot be proven historically that a Jesus Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life during Pilate's term in office. All we have for evidence are the pages of a holy book whose validity is no more credible than the Book of Mormon, The Talmud, The Vedas, or the Koran.

We today are at a disadvantage. Thomas was given empirical proof that Jesus' dead body was back from the grave. We have no such proof; and according to the Bible, that's the way God wants it.

John 20:29 . .Then Jesus told Thomas: Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

The Greek word translated "blessed" is makarios (mak-ar'-ee-os) which means fortunate and/or well off.

In other words: if people can believe that Jesus Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life sans any solid evidence to prove it; then they are seen by the Bible as among the fortunate; while seen by the world as among the gullible.

1Cor 1:22-23 . . For indeed Jews ask for signs, and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified; to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness.

1Cor 2:4-5 . . My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
_
Hi Dan,
You might want to read the following...Pilate IS mentioned, in regards to Jesus:


http://www.uncover.org.uk/questions...utside-the-bible-for-jesus-life-and-teaching/
 
.
You might want to read the following...Pilate IS mentioned, in regards to Jesus:


The focus in the link is upon Jesus' existence. My focus in post No.176 is upon his crucified dead body restored to life. To my knowledge, there is no solid historical evidence for that; there's only hearsay.

Quoted from the link: "Fifth, there are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus"

Possible references are not strong enough to hold up in court. But thanks anyway for the link. It was interesting.


BTW: When people need solid historical proof before they'll believe that a Jesus Christ's crucified dead body was restored to life; then according John 20:29, they've missed out on an important blessing. Plus, according to 1Cor 2:4-5, their faith isn't resting upon God's power as it's supposed to.
_
 
Ezra, of all people with you being a Pastor I would think you would want to learn that of what you preach to others. Deep studies are not for everyone's cup of tea, so be it. I, like StoveBolts wondering and many others like the deeper studies as it brings in the full context of all truths not seen before. Actually everything I have given comes from Exodus Chapter 12 and 16 that gives us the exact date for Passover as the Exodus is a shadow in the OT of Christ in the NT being our passover Lamb.

Since you are not interested in all of this then why bother even coming in here and making the remarks you are making. It's a discussion that many of us find interesting. Does it have any affect on Christ being raised on Sunday which we all agree on, no, but yet it is important enough for some of us to discuss the festivals and sabbaths for our understanding of them.
first off deep study background history meaning types shadows .i am all for %100 of this ..see what YOU are missing is the point with the statement of using the Bible alone is very dangerous. it is a misleading remark.the Bible in scripture says
Mark 15:42 King James Version (KJV)
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
my understanding sabbath is saturday so the day before would be friday !!! there has been post maybe wed maybe thursday. it really does not matter as the important thing is death burial resurrection ..had not these three events been then our belief is in vain it would be my suggestion that you not reword what i have said.. this was between me and bolts on the statement. Bible alone is very dangerous .so the way i see it the worst can happen is i get banned from this section also . so if you dont mind thank you . you all cant even agree on calendars
 
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42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath


According to John 18:28, John 18:39, and John 19:14, that particular preparation preceded the Jews' paschal lamb dinners; ergo: Mark 15:42's sabbath wasn't the routine sabbath, it was the Passover sabbath as per Ex 12:16, Lev 23:2-8, and John 19:31.

Two other feast-day sabbaths are Yom Kippur and the Feast of Trumpets (Lev 16:29-34 and Lev 23:23-25)

I dialogued with lots of Jews in the past on other message boards and forums. None of them objected to the Passover sabbath. Ironically it's always Christians who oppose it, and it's usually due to their thinking's lock on the Good Friday model.
_
 
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