Good Works that insult the Cross.

[Kidron]

-
Good works do not keep you saved, and believing is not a work.

"Faith is counted as Righteousness." Romans 3-21-28 ,. Romans 4:3-8
God takes your faith, and He give to you Salvation, as a completed born again status.
You are now a part of heaven while you are still living on earth.
He accepts your faith and givs you His Righteousness. = This is Salvation.
You are not keeping yourself saved, you are SAVED ALREADY....its finished.
There is no WORK you can do to stay saved, there is only the ATONEMENT that has made you to be established as RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes.
This Is Salvation.
Salvation, is GOD seeing you differently based on the blood of Christ redeeming you, purchasing you.
God no longer sees you as "that sinner" after you are saved, but rather He sees you now and forever as the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST.
That is how you are now ESTEEMED by GOD upon being saved, and this remains forever.

Salvation, is God creating a Way, through the sacrifice of Christ, whereby you are now given Christ's very righteousness, Christ's very sinless state of existence, that Christ is in heaven and was on earth....This very righteousness, has become what we are and who we are in GOD"s perspective,....its our holy state of existence, its our redeemed place "in Christ".
When God looks at a born again person, its as if He is looking at Jesus himself, as the saved person has now been given the same exact sinless RIGHTEOUSNESS that CHRIST IS...
This is what the blood of Christ establishes for you once it is applied to you, based on your faith.
This is why its called the 'GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS", AS ITS BEEN GIFTED TO A BELIEVER, and that is now WHAT we are and WHO we are........The believer has now become the very righteousness of Jesus Christ.
This is why your NEW TESTAMENT says you are "IN CHRIST"< > and "CHRIST IN YOU"....
This is why your bible says you have become "bone of His bones and flesh of His FLESH"...as that is a believer's STATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS before GOD.
The blood of Christ has established the born again as "ONE" with The Father and the Son according to your New Testament.
We are RIGHTEOUS as if we have never sinned, as this is what God's salvation does.....It recreates us to be RIGHTEOUS (born again).
So,, once we are made Righteous by the Blood of Christ through FAITH.......once this atonement has created us to be as SINLESS As CHRIST, then that is the end of it........That is your born again state of existence whereby you are now and forever "translated from the power of darkness into the kingdom of LIGHT"......and that is why you are "sealed unto the day of redemption"", and "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST"" right this very second if you are born again.

There is no undoing this, as you dont maintain this, as you cant......See, You cant equal God's righteousness by your works, and that is why He created the plan of Salvation "by FAITH" to save you.
He created it as a way to recreate us (born again) to be as Sinless in HIS EYES, as Jesus, by giving us the very Righteousness of Christ.
That is what we have, that is what we have become, that is our right standing with God, once we are born again.
That is what you are given as the "Gift of Righteousness".......that is the Gift,... that is the Redemption plan THAT IS the ATONEMENT.

What God has done, is given us HIS very Righteousness, because Jesus took OUR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS AWAY ON THE CROSS.
"Jesus became sin who KNEW NO SIN", so that we can become "the righteousness of God IN CHRIST".
He became us, (our sin he bore) and we became Him., regarding eternal Sonship and regarding righteousness.
HE BECAME and TOOK our sin, and we became His very righteousness.
THAT IS SALVATION, and you cant undo it by your behavior, because the plan of redemption is not based on you, its based on the CROSS and what Jesus finished there for us.
SO, its a finished Salvation.... that is APPLIED TO US, and that is our ESTABLISHED POSITION as a Child of GOD = BORN AGAIN.
This is finished, and it cant ever be changed for any reason.

 

[JLB]

-
Good works do not keep you saved, and believing is not a work.

"Faith is counted as Righteousness." Romans 3-21-28 ,. Romans 4:3-8
God takes your faith, and He give to you Salvation, as a completed born again status.
You are now a part of heaven while you are still living on earth.
He accepts your faith and givs you His Righteousness. = This is Salvation.
You are not keeping yourself saved, you are SAVED ALREADY....its finished.
There is no WORK you can do to stay saved, there is only the ATONEMENT that has made you to be established as RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes.
This Is Salvation.
Salvation, is GOD seeing you differently based on the blood of Christ redeeming you, purchasing you.
God no longer sees you as "that sinner" after you are saved, but rather He sees you now and forever as the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST.
That is how you are now ESTEEMED by GOD upon being saved, and this remains forever.

Salvation, is God creating a Way, through the sacrifice of Christ, whereby you are now given Christ's very righteousness, Christ's very sinless state of existence, that Christ is in heaven and was on earth....This very righteousness, has become what we are and who we are in GOD"s perspective,....its our holy state of existence, its our redeemed place "in Christ".
When God looks at a born again person, its as if He is looking at Jesus himself, as the saved person has now been given the same exact sinless RIGHTEOUSNESS that CHRIST IS...
This is what the blood of Christ establishes for you once it is applied to you, based on your faith.
This is why its called the 'GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS", AS ITS BEEN GIFTED TO A BELIEVER, and that is now WHAT we are and WHO we are........The believer has now become the very righteousness of Jesus Christ.
This is why your NEW TESTAMENT says you are "IN CHRIST"< > and "CHRIST IN YOU"....
This is why your bible says you have become "bone of His bones and flesh of His FLESH"...as that is a believer's STATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS before GOD.
The blood of Christ has established the born again as "ONE" with The Father and the Son according to your New Testament.
We are RIGHTEOUS as if we have never sinned, as this is what God's salvation does.....It recreates us to be RIGHTEOUS (born again).
So,, once we are made Righteous by the Blood of Christ through FAITH.......once this atonement has created us to be as SINLESS As CHRIST, then that is the end of it........That is your born again state of existence whereby you are now and forever "translated from the power of darkness into the kingdom of LIGHT"......and that is why you are "sealed unto the day of redemption"", and "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST"" right this very second if you are born again.

There is no undoing this, as you dont maintain this, as you cant......See, You cant equal God's righteousness by your works, and that is why He created the plan of Salvation "by FAITH" to save you.
He created it as a way to recreate us (born again) to be as Sinless in HIS EYES, as Jesus, by giving us the very Righteousness of Christ.
That is what we have, that is what we have become, that is our right standing with God, once we are born again.
That is what you are given as the "Gift of Righteousness".......that is the Gift,... that is the Redemption plan THAT IS the ATONEMENT.

What God has done, is given us HIS very Righteousness, because Jesus took OUR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS AWAY ON THE CROSS.
"Jesus became sin who KNEW NO SIN", so that we can become "the righteousness of God IN CHRIST".
He became us, (our sin he bore) and we became Him., regarding eternal Sonship and regarding righteousness.
HE BECAME and TOOK our sin, and we became His very righteousness.
THAT IS SALVATION, and you cant undo it by your behavior, because the plan of redemption is not based on you, its based on the CROSS and what Jesus finished there for us.
SO, its a finished Salvation.... that is APPLIED TO US, and that is our ESTABLISHED POSITION as a Child of GOD = BORN AGAIN.
This is finished, and it cant ever be changed for any reason.

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food... Matthew 25:41-42

What was the reason, Jesus said these goats were to be cast into the everlasting fires of hell along with the devil and his angels?


JLB

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I don't understand why there is this continuous disagreement between being Christian, by faith, or by acting in obedience. Faith verse works makes no sense to me. It is said plainly in the bible. We are saved by faith. Faith without action is dead. You can not have faith without action. And though you are not saved by the action, your actions say much about your faith.

Myself I am weak, I am sinful, I try and I fail. In every way God is greater and I can not measure up. But yet that is what we are called to do. Not called to be God, but called to measure up to what God expects of us. Throughout Jesus's ministry on earth He healed people and told them to turn from their sins and sin no more. Throughout the Old Testiment, God sent out His prophets with an ongoing message to turn from their sins. Had they believed and acted on that, they would have been saved as the city of Nineveh was when the reluctant prophet Jonah prophesied and spoke the warnings and God's message.

Here are some thoughts to consider. Mathew 7:24-29 on the last portion of the sermon on the mount.

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

In this comparison of acting on Jesus's word's and building a house a very astute observation on belief come into play. The ones who believed acted on that belief. In the same way if a builder believed in and trusted a blueprint, they would follow it to the letter, they would not act on their own because they trust and believe the blueprint to be right. It follows then that the builder not only trusts and has faith in the blueprint, but they act on that faith by building their house accordingly. (Otherwise if they don't build it the way it's shown and the house falls, a person can ask the builder, "why didn't you follow the design? Did you not believe that it was good? Were you not convinced? If the builder answers they were convinced in the design, then the other person critizing them can say, "Not convinced enough to act on it though."

That is the heart and the basis I feel to faith. Not just to agree with something or to say we agree. But to act on it too. To do what we can to follow through on our faith by our action.

We are saved by our faith. Yes that is true. But if we do not act on that faith, did we really believe enough to say we had faith?

It can be said that we can not earn our way to heaven, and that it is by grace that we are saved. And that is wonderful news. But that does not mean that we should be slack in what we are called to do. If we have faith in Jesus, and His teachings, we should show that faith by applying the teachings into our lives. Show our faith by our actions.

 

[Kidron]

I We are saved by faith. .

Hello,

and no, we are not saved by faith.
We are saved by GOD, through Christ's BLOOD Atonement, that is released to us to save us, when we believe by Faith, the Gospel.
Think of it this way...
"Faith", is the transmission device THROUGH WHICH God redeems you with Christ's Blood.
So, its the Blood of Christ and God who are the "Savior" who flow through (once and for all) your Faith in the very instant you first BELIEVED. = "born again".
Your Faith released God to SAVE YOU, but your faith of itself does not save you, so dont put your belief in your faith to keep you saved, as its not your faith that saved you.
Instead put your faith in GOD who saved you through Christ's atonement, and trust HIM to keep you saved and not your faith.
That is Salvation and to understand salvation is to understand WHO saved you, HOW they saved you, and from what you have been saved "from".

 

[JLB]

-
Did you know that all bible heretics live in Hebrews, James and Matthew, and will quote from these epistles constantly?
Sad but true.
So, when did giving Jesus food save anyone's soul?
Is this the Gospel?
Are you rightly dividing the word by taking a symbolic scripture out of context, out of Matthew, that has nothing to do with the Blood Atonement and the Cross and being born again, to try to prove "works for salvation"?
Listen, you are not saved by feeding Jesus, or by following Him.
You are saved by His BLOOD being shed for your sins, and by the righteousness of God being given to you as the "gift of righteousness".

Here are the words of Jesus Christ.

Can you answer as to why Jesus sentenced these goats to hell along with the devil and his angels?

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food... Matthew 25:41-42

I truly would like to know how a person could conceive of "another" reason Jesus would sentence these goats to hell, when He said the reason... for I was hungry, and you gave Me no food.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Are you rightly dividing the word by taking a symbolic scripture out of context, out of Matthew, that has nothing to do with the Blood Atonement and the Cross and being born again, to try to prove "works for salvation"?

Can you point out the "symbolic" words in the following verse's?

40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ 41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; Matthew 25:40-42



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't understand why there is this continuous disagreement between being Christian, by faith, or by acting in obedience. Faith verse works makes no sense to me. It is said plainly in the bible. We are saved by faith. Faith without action is dead. You can not have faith without action. And though you are not saved by the action, your actions say much about your faith.

Myself I am weak, I am sinful, I try and I fail. In every way God is greater and I can not measure up. But yet that is what we are called to do. Not called to be God, but called to measure up to what God expects of us. Throughout Jesus's ministry on earth He healed people and told them to turn from their sins and sin no more. Throughout the Old Testiment, God sent out His prophets with an ongoing message to turn from their sins. Had they believed and acted on that, they would have been saved as the city of Nineveh was when the reluctant prophet Jonah prophesied and spoke the warnings and God's message.

Here are some thoughts to consider. Mathew 7:24-29 on the last portion of the sermon on the mount.

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

In this comparison of acting on Jesus's word's and building a house a very astute observation on belief come into play. The ones who believed acted on that belief. In the same way if a builder believed in and trusted a blueprint, they would follow it to the letter, they would not act on their own because they trust and believe the blueprint to be right. It follows then that the builder not only trusts and has faith in the blueprint, but they act on that faith by building their house accordingly. (Otherwise if they don't build it the way it's shown and the house falls, a person can ask the builder, "why didn't you follow the design? Did you not believe that it was good? Were you not convinced? If the builder answers they were convinced in the design, then the other person critizing them can say, "Not convinced enough to act on it though."

That is the heart and the basis I feel to faith. Not just to agree with something or to say we agree. But to act on it too. To do what we can to follow through on our faith by our action.

We are saved by our faith. Yes that is true. But if we do not act on that faith, did we really believe enough to say we had faith?

It can be said that we can not earn our way to heaven, and that it is by grace that we are saved. And that is wonderful news. But that does not mean that we should be slack in what we are called to do. If we have faith in Jesus, and His teachings, we should show that faith by applying the teachings into our lives. Show our faith by our actions.

Couldn't have said it any better.

The problem in the Protestant church is not that people are busy working themselves to earn salvation. The problem is what you point out--people think the faith that does nothing represents the faith that justifies apart from works (rationalized by the fear of their obedience being an effort to justify oneself). But I know exposing that lie does not make for good sermon material in a church full of itching ears, and worldly sized mortgages and staff salaries that can't be paid by telling the hard truth that pares down church attendance, not increases it.

Paul explains the connection between the faith that justifies apart from works, and works here:

"6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision (the epitome of the law) means anything (toward justification--see context), but faith working through love." (Galatians 5:6 NASB)

See, it isn't the faith that does nothing that justifies. Paul says the faith that counts towards justification is the faith that loves. Just as the footsteps of Abraham's were the evidence of his justifying faith and trust in the promise of God, so it is that the obedience to love (the summation of the law) is the evidence of our justifying faith and trust in the Promise of God.

Generally speaking, no footprints--no faith. But there is a church full of people who will argue with you vehemently in complete contradiction to Paul and James that their faith 'alone' surely is the faith that justifies. They don't understand that the 'all by itself' capability of faith to justify doesn't mean it can be absent of works. The absence of works with your (so-called) faith means either you simply do not have the faith in Christ you think you do, or you are simply in contempt of the free gift you have received in Christ.

If you can't prove yourself to be a child of God by what you do then you probably are not a child of God (or, you are in serious rebellion, which will condemn you also). It really is that simple. But there are many, many, many people in the church who will argue to the very day of their destruction that faith does not need works to accompany it to validate it as the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. And they will justify it with all kinds of misguided 'faith vs. works' and 'new nature vs. old nature' and predestination, and OSAS arguments.

"14Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (Philippians 2:14-15 NASB)

 

[JLB]

The problem in the Protestant church is not that people are busy working themselves to earn salvation.

True.

Unfortunately, they are working under pressure and duress from the Pastor and leadership, whose goal is to build a bigger building, that will seat more people, so that bigger offering's are received.

The works, are really just free labor for the Pastor.

Even the pressure to go out and "preach the Gospel", really means, "bring your middle class friends to church".

For when the poor and outcast are brought in, who need food and ministry, and stink and need care...



JLB

 

[Kidron]

Couldn't have said it any better.

The problem in the Protestant church is not that people are busy working themselves to earn salvation. The problem is what you point out--people think the faith that does nothing represents the faith that justifies apart from works (rationalized by the fear of their obedience being an effort to justify oneself). But I know exposing that lie does not make for good sermon material in a church full of itching ears, and worldly sized mortgages and staff salaries that can't be paid by telling the hard truth that pares down church attendance, not increases it.

Paul explains the connection between the faith that justifies apart from works, and works here:

"6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision (the epitome of the law) means anything (toward justification--see context), but faith working through love." (Galatians 5:6 NASB)

See, it isn't the faith that does nothing that justifies. Paul says the faith that counts towards justification is the faith that loves. Just as the footsteps of Abraham's were the evidence of his justifying faith and trust in the promise of God, so it is that the obedience to love (the summation of the law) is the evidence of our justifying faith and trust in the Promise of God.

Generally speaking, no footprints--no faith. But there is a church full of people who will argue with you vehemently in complete contradiction to Paul and James that their faith 'alone' surely is the faith that justifies. They don't understand that the 'all by itself' capability of faith to justify doesn't mean it can be absent of works. The absence of works with your (so-called) faith means either you simply do not have the faith in Christ you think you do, or you are simply in contempt of the free gift you have received in Christ.

If you can't prove yourself to be a child of God by what you do then you probably are not a child of God (or, you are in serious rebellion, which will condemn you also). It really is that simple. But there are many, many, many people in the church who will argue to the very day of their destruction that faith does not need works to accompany it to validate it as the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. And they will justify it with all kinds of misguided 'faith vs. works' and 'new nature vs. old nature' and predestination, and OSAS arguments.

"14Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (Philippians 2:14-15 NASB)

-
Stop trusting in faith to save you, and start Trusting in God who Saved you.
Faith does not save you, ...God saved you........ONCE.
So, holding onto faith, does nothing, only being SAVED counts, and that is accomplished by God as soon as you believed and once accomplished cant be undone by how you think or feel or behave today, or next Friday.
Stop trusting in your faith, and start realizing what GOD has done for you, and let that be your truth, as there is no other, regarding being "saved".

Ephesians 2:8
Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

To believe in vain, means you heard, but didnt believe unto salvation.
its the ," some seeds feel upon stony ground".......no root, no actual saving faith, just hearing but not truly believing to the saving of the soul, is to "believe in vain".

Also, as you are not saved by faith, so by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth", as a birth cant be undone.

Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

As you are not saved by faith, so then, by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth" blood Atonement, as a birth cant be undone and the Atonement will never be taken back.
"BIRTH" is a permanent condition, both physically and spiritually.

Ephesians 2:8

 

[JLB]

-
Stop trusting in faith to save you, and start Trusting in God who Saved you.
Faith does not save you, ...God saved you........ONCE.
So, holding onto faith, does nothing, only being SAVED counts, and that is accomplished by God as soon as you believed and once accomplished cant be undone by how you think or feel or behave today, or next Friday.
Stop trusting in your faith, and start realizing what GOD has done for you, and let that be your truth, as there is no other, regarding being "saved".

Ephesians 2:8
Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

To believe in vain, means you heard, but didnt believe unto salvation.
its the ," some seeds feel upon stony ground".......no root, no actual saving faith, just hearing but not truly believing to the saving of the soul, is to "believe in vain".

Also, as you are not saved by faith, so by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth", as a birth cant be undone.

Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

As you are not saved by faith, so then, by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth" blood Atonement, as a birth cant be undone and the Atonement will never be taken back.
"BIRTH" is a permanent condition, both physically and spiritually.

Ephesians 2:8

Can you point out the "symbolic" words in the following verse's?

40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ 41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; Matthew 25:40-42



JLB

 

[JLB]

-
Stop trusting in faith to save you, and start Trusting in God who Saved you.
Faith does not save you, ...God saved you........ONCE.
So, holding onto faith, does nothing, only being SAVED counts, and that is accomplished by God as soon as you believed and once accomplished cant be undone by how you think or feel or behave today, or next Friday.
Stop trusting in your faith, and start realizing what GOD has done for you, and let that be your truth, as there is no other, regarding being "saved".

Ephesians 2:8
Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

To believe in vain, means you heard, but didnt believe unto salvation.
its the ," some seeds feel upon stony ground".......no root, no actual saving faith, just hearing but not truly believing to the saving of the soul, is to "believe in vain".

Also, as you are not saved by faith, so by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth", as a birth cant be undone.

Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

As you are not saved by faith, so then, by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth" blood Atonement, as a birth cant be undone and the Atonement will never be taken back.
"BIRTH" is a permanent condition, both physically and spiritually.

Ephesians 2:8

Here are the words of Jesus Christ.

Can you answer as to why Jesus sentenced these goats to hell along with the devil and his angels?

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food... Matthew 25:41-42

I truly would like to know how a person could conceive of "another" reason Jesus would sentence these goats to hell, when He said the reason... for I was hungry, and you gave Me no food.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

-
Stop trusting in faith to save you, and start Trusting in God who Saved you.
Faith does not save you, ...God saved you........ONCE.
So, holding onto faith, does nothing, only being SAVED counts, and that is accomplished by God as soon as you believed and once accomplished cant be undone by how you think or feel or behave today, or next Friday.
Stop trusting in your faith, and start realizing what GOD has done for you, and let that be your truth, as there is no other, regarding being "saved".

Ephesians 2:8
Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

To believe in vain, means you heard, but didnt believe unto salvation.
its the ," some seeds feel upon stony ground".......no root, no actual saving faith, just hearing but not truly believing to the saving of the soul, is to "believe in vain".

Also, as you are not saved by faith, so by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth", as a birth cant be undone.

Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

As you are not saved by faith, so then, by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth" blood Atonement, as a birth cant be undone and the Atonement will never be taken back.
"BIRTH" is a permanent condition, both physically and spiritually.

Ephesians 2:8

Same ol' hyper grace teaching. This is the problem in the church, not that people are trying to work themselves into salvation. So many people think they can depart the faith and still be justified by the faith they no longer have.

In the following passage that you rationalized away, how does not really believing to begin with (assuming for argument's sake that's what 'believed in vain' means--which it does not), how does that change the condition to hold fast the word in order to be saved?

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

See, you're also telling people who really have believed that they are still saved even if they do not 'hold fast the word'. And if you try to say you are only saying people who depart the faith are showing they never really believed to begin with I will quote you so you can't claim that:

as you are not saved by faith, so by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.

 

[JLB]

To believe in vain, means you heard, but didnt believe unto salvation.
its the ," some seeds feel upon stony ground".......no root, no actual saving faith, just hearing but not truly believing to the saving of the soul, is to "believe in vain".

Also, as you are not saved by faith, so by losing faith, ...this cant unsave you.
You are saved by GOD, using the Blood of Christ to redeem you, and only He could undo that, and He never will, as He will not undo the "new birth", as a birth cant be undone.

Romans 3:21-28.....4:3-7

What does a person become when they are born again?


JLB

 

[Kidron]

What does a person become when they are born again?

JLB

-
They (we) have become, exactly like Christ's Righteousness....as this is the "Gift of Righteousness" that you become in God's viewpoint once you are born again.
This is what Jesus's finished work on the Cross has SUPPLIED for you, for all eternity.
Otherwise, you'd never be allowed inside a Holy Heaven with a Holy God.
To become a "Son of God" is to be recreated (born again) to be as Righteous as all the other Sons of God, and that means, "sinless".
This is why your "works" are meaningless, .. as only the Blood Atonement will create you as "born again", and redeemed, and sinless, in God's perspective.
So, this is why we are never to trust in faith to save us, and instead give glory to God who has SAVED US already < through Christ's redeeming death.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Kidron , perhaps you're busy constructing a response, maybe not. But I'll make this easy for you so you can respond to the challenge I'm leveling against you: According to you, the person who does not hold fast the word never believed to begin with, or they are still saved. You have made both arguments. But they contradict each other, so explain your duplicity.

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold mine)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's interesting to note that what the Bible actually says insults the cross is a trampling of the grace of the cross in a willful sinning.

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?"
(Hebrews 10:26,29 NASB)

But you're arguing that it is having to have a continuing faith in the cross that insults it.

 

[WIP]

Please remember to apply the Forum Guidelines when posting views.

 

[Edward]

"Faith is counted as Righteousness." Romans 3-21-28 ,. Romans 4:3-8
God takes your faith, and He give to you Salvation, as a completed born again status.
You are now a part of heaven while you are still living on earth.
He accepts your faith and givs you His Righteousness. = This is Salvation.
You are not keeping yourself saved, you are SAVED ALREADY....its finished.
There is no WORK you can do to stay saved, there is only the ATONEMENT that has made you to be established as RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes.
This Is Salvation.
Salvation, is GOD seeing you differently based on the blood of Christ redeeming you, purchasing you.
God no longer sees you as "that sinner" after you are saved, but rather He sees you now and forever as the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST.
That is how you are now ESTEEMED by GOD upon being saved, and this remains forever.

Amen Brother, I think you're right. God does see us differently after we're born again. At that point He must see us as...little children.

Spiritual infants into His family (!!) who need cared and taught, and needs to grow as spiritual beings and mature. But He has to take it slow with us because we could not bear it if He revealed all to us while we are in this form (flesh). We'd probably die. Besides, as a people on earth we're really really really stupid.

 

[JLB]

To become a "Son of God" is to be recreated (born again) to be as Righteous as all the other Sons of God, and that means, "sinless".

Now let's examine these two scriptures, that teach us about sons of God, and righteousness.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

Becoming denotes a process.

We are in the process of becoming sons of God.
We are in the process of becoming the righteousness of God in Christ.
We are in the process of transformation.

We will attain being equal to the angels as sons of God, if we attain to the resurrection of the dead; being sons of the resurrection.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 1 John 3:3



JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Same ol' hyper grace teaching. This is the problem in the church, not that people are trying to work themselves into salvation. So many people think they can depart the faith and still be justified by the faith they no longer have.

In the following passage that you rationalized away, how does not really believing to begin with (assuming for argument's sake that's what 'believed in vain' means--which it does not), how does that change the condition to hold fast the word in order to be saved?

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

See, you're also telling people who really have believed that they are still saved even if they do not 'hold fast the word'. And if you try to say you are only saying people who depart the faith are showing they never really believed to begin with I will quote you so you can't claim that:

So many people
so many people
You've been saying for years that so may people think they can depart the faith and still be justified by the faith they no longer have.
Who are these people?
I've never met one.
Have you?
Or did you read about it out of one of your best sellers?