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Have you spoke in tongues, if not you are not saved

Is speaking in tongues needed to be saved

  • Yes it is

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Henry said:
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You can not possible believe that this rambling nonesence we hear in so many churches is really from God. Come one week to week these people ramble the same sounds, they even teach each other how to "speak in tongues" and all that jive.

The fact is that in the NT we know they where speaking an earth language.

1. They lived in a multi-cultural setting, many languages, with one central language. To say a tongue is the same as saying a language the words are the same. When the NT talks about a tongue, it is talking about languages.

2. They where instructed not to speak in tongues unless there was someone to interpret so all could understand, this was not possible if they where merely babbling and someone took a pop shot at what they where saying, but they would know if there was someone to interpret becuase they knew the languages that each other spoke.

So, If I were to speak in spanish then I would know that someone else did too, and that he could interpret what I was going to say to the others.

3. When people spoke in tongues people heard them praising God, and how can they have known what they where they where saying unless they where speaking a language that was understood.

4. The day of pentacost they spoke in the languages of the nations. REAL languages not just babble.

The only time there was babble that was not understood was at the tower of bable, and that was not a good thing.

The FACT is that this so called prayer language or the angelic language is just a false teaching, it pure emotionalism driven by peer presure and false teachers.

Churches that do this are doing this from the flesh, it is not from God.

Well said, Henry! Tongues is not some hee-bee gee-bee mumbo-jumbo that people do to look spiritually mature. It is understanding French when one has not learned French or speaking in Turkish when one has not learned Turkish. That is the miracle!

At pentecost, people were given the ability to speak in different languages to show the world that the Holy Spirit has no culture or language barriers! It unites people of all races and nationalities under one Spirit. It brings the children of God into unity as Jesus wants us. It is not some side-show, but a miraculous manifestation of the power of the Holy Spirit. And like miracles, God gives us the ability to do this only when it serves his purposes, not ours!

Romans 14:10, "Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world yet none of them is without meaning." Paul makes it clear that it does no good to speak in tongues unless they can be understood by the recipients. There is no gift or no miracle if someone speaks hee-bee-gee-bee and someone translates it to mean anything he wants!
 
1 Corinthians 14:22, "Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers..so it the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say you are out of your mind?"

If 2 English-speaking people are in the room, why not just speak to each other in English? :o What is the point of talking to each other in mumbo-jumbo? There is none, except to try to look "enlightened", which is the sin of pride. But God uses tongues for his glory like he did at pentecost: To bring all nations together under one Spirit. And that is the purpose of speaking in tongues, not human pride. :)
 
I believe there are those who are authentic and the spoken tongue interpreted correctly and I also believe there are fakes.

Another less stringent way to look at speaking in tongues is that if one does then would you understand it? In a lot of ways we speak in tongues in that those we speak to don't understand a word we say. Those of the spirit hear our voice and understand. For the non-believer he just throws up his hands saying you're making no sense at all. 8-)
 
PotLuck said:
I believe there are those who are authentic and the spoken tongue interpreted correctly and I also believe there are fakes.

Sputnik: As long as present-day 'tongues' don't tally with the scriptures (ala Pentecostal) then we need to err on the side of caution and assume that they are ALL fake. There really are NO 'ifs or buts' here. And, to the poster who said that there are many kinds of tongues, YES, there are. But they are of ONE earthly origin ..., Chinese, Swahili, Latvian, Portuguese, Japanese, English ...etc. etc.
 
Gifts and tongues

I posted the article below somewhere on this forum some time ago but can't locate it so forgive me for posting it again but for those of you who still think tongues are for today then please read this:

The Gifts

All right – tongues – easy if you take the Bible as it stands and understand how God deals with Israel as a nation. Most make issue of prayer languages, interpreter or not and never cover what tongues are really for. Let’s get down to the basics. Remember, God deals with Israel as a nation differently than he deals with the body of Christ today.

According to the Bible tongues are for a sign (1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign,…). The verse didn’t say tongues were for your personal edification, prayer time, public worship service, etc. Tongues are for a sign. Now, who require signs in the Bible? The Jews require a sign (1 Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign,….). Why did the Jews require a sign? It was a part of their history. When God and Moses had their conversation at the burning bush Moses said (and I paraphrase), “They are not going to believe me.†The Lord said, “I will give you some signs to authenticate your ministry.†Moses went to them and did signs and wonders and they believed. When the Lord came to Israel in the gospels he came with signs to authenticate his ministry and some believed. In fact the Pharisees came seeking a sign - Mat 12:38 “Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.†After Christ arose he gave the apostles the signs to authenticate their ministries they went about doing signs and wonders.

Next, tongues were not for believers but for unbelievers – “not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: - I Cor. 14:22. This is the clincher. Moses went to Jews who were unbelievers of his ministry. Jesus went to an unbelieving Israel with signs. Paul went to unbelieving Israel with signs. Also, the Jews were “unbelievers†in the sense that they did not believe that God would not bless the Gentiles. In Acts 2 where the signs and wonders took place Peter preached to thousands of “unbelieving Jews†and they believed after the message with signs and wonders (Acts 2:43).

Today tongues are used in churches for believers – in other words done for the edification of the speaker or hearer, which is contrary to I Cor. 1:22 and 14:22 (note both verses are 22 – can’t beat the book!)

Now, when you use your “tongues†in your church service are there any unbelieving Jews there? Maybe and maybe not but most likely not. When you are using “tongues†in your private prayer closet are there any unbelieving Jews there?

Let’s wrap it up – When God deals with Israel as a nation he uses signs and wonders as authentication. God is not dealing with Israel as a nation today – God is dealing with individuals. Tongues are for a sign and to unbelievers, not believers. Tongues are a sign of judgment to the unbelieving Jews. Also, unbelievers are “believing “ Jews in Acts who were didn’t believe the Gentiles could get in on the blessings.

Tongue speakers are not following this today one bit. I really don’t care about how good tongues feel to you and how excited you get when you utter your “tonguesâ€Â. When you pray and speak in tongues are you doing it as a sign to unbelieving Jews? I don’t care if you saw millions at once speaking in tongues. What you saw were millions of deceived people led by an unclean spirit. They may be nice, polite, Bible-quoting people but they were deceived while they were nice, polite and quoting scripture.

I know you have a lot of verses you get from I Cor 14 but remember Paul is rebuking a carnal church of a misuse of a doctrine to the point where he calls them children in malice. Why you think you can find anything positive there to support your tongues beats the fire out of me.

Don’t judge tongues by your experience – judge your experience by the Bible. Anybody can think they speak in tongues. I’ve even seen people “practicing†their tongues so they wouldn’t lose them! Please, people! The great men of God of old wouldn’t and didn’t mess with that stuff for a minute and God used any one of them more then 10,000 tongue speakers today.

But you say, “Yes, but I still know what I know and I speak in tonges and others do so that proves it!†Fine, base your doctrine on feelings and experience and ignore the plain teaching of scripture.
Again, one last time with feeling – UNTILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT GOD DEALS WITH ISRAEL AS A NATION DIFFERENTLY THAN HE DOES WITH THE BODY OF CHRIST TODAY THEN YOU CAN FORGET UNDERSTANDING THE GIFTS!

God bless
 
Good one, AV, a thorough explanation that should put an end to the nonsense going on today in some churches. It WON'T but that was a fine effort on your part anyway!
 
You are right

SputnikBoy said:
Good one, AV, a thorough explanation that should put an end to the nonsense going on today in some churches. It WON'T but that was a fine effort on your part anyway!
Thanks Sput - you are absolutely right - it won't.

We must remember that when many of these folks have to choose between their experience and the word of God then they will choose to keep their experience over the word of God everytime. :o

God bless 8-)
 
How true, Av. And that's why experiencing the Holy Spirit is the only way to understand and believe the bible because it has to be spiritually discerned rather than attempted to be understood only by human wisdom. :)
 
Heidi said:
How true, Av. And that's why experiencing the Holy Spirit is the only way to understand and believe the bible because it has to be spiritually discerned rather than attempted to be understood only by human wisdom. :)

That's a hard explanation for a non-believer to accept. Not many years ago I'd have said what I've heard many other non-believers say, "That statement is the height of arrogance." Knowing exactly what I believed then and in light of what I understand now I still can't think of anything I'd say or any way to say it that would have changed my mind. And if I couldn't convince me then nobody could. It's definately not arrogance.

Anyway, very good post AV
thumbup.gif
 
pilgrim said:
Here is a very good article on tongues.

"I Speak in Tongues More Than You All" G.-F. Rendal

http://users.bigpond.net.au/joeflorence/tongues.html

Pilgrim

Sputnik: Thanks, pilgrim. I haven't read it all as yet but I would certainly recommend this site to both sides of this argument on 'tongue-speaking'. Hopefully, there WON'T BE 'two sides' on this issue once the article has been read and fully understood!
:microwave:
 
My first post!!! :-D

Let me start by saying that I'm in no way defending the Pentecostal view
on ttongues I currently attend a UPCI church, though I do not consider
myself a Pentecostal, nor do I belive speaking in tongues is evidence of the Holy Ghost.

I do though have a few issues with AVBunyan's theory that tongues are a sign to only the Jews or Israel.

1) The Gentiles also spoke in tongues (Acts 10:45 - 10:46)

2) tongues are a gift (Cor 12), no where does Paul say its only a gift for
Israel or Jews.

Most Pentecostal hang there hat on Acts 2:4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them."

They belive that tongues are the initial evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirt. The fact is the scripture dose not support this. You cannot
find any place in the scripure that says tongues are evidence of the
Holy Spirit.

Paul testified in Cor 12:3 "no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by
the Holy Spirt". To me this means that if you confess that Jesus is Lord, you are filled with the Holy Spirit.

Just my thoughts :lol: Have a good day.
 
supernac said:
My first post!!! :-D

Let me start by saying that I'm in no way defending the Pentecostal view
on ttongues I currently attend a UPCI church, though I do not consider
myself a Pentecostal, nor do I belive speaking in tongues is evidence of the Holy Ghost.

I do though have a few issues with AVBunyan's theory that tongues are a sign to only the Jews or Israel.

1) The Gentiles also spoke in tongues (Acts 10:45 - 10:46)

2) tongues are a gift (Cor 12), no where does Paul say its only a gift for
Israel or Jews.

Most Pentecostal hang there hat on Acts 2:4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them."

They belive that tongues are the initial evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirt. The fact is the scripture dose not support this. You cannot
find any place in the scripure that says tongues are evidence of the
Holy Spirit.

Paul testified in Cor 12:3 "no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by
the Holy Spirt". To me this means that if you confess that Jesus is Lord, you are filled with the Holy Spirit.

Just my thoughts :lol: Have a good day.

Sputnik: Hi supernac. What are your views on Pentecostal 'tongues' in general?
 
A majority of it is learned behavior. Though there is always an exception to the rule. If you can truly speak in tongues that’s great, but it’s not necessary for salvation, just a gift nothing more. A lot of it has to do with sensationalism, if you ever been to a Pentecostal service you would know what I’m talking about. Lot’s of up-beat music preachers yelling, people dancing, ext.
 
No, you definiteley DO NOT have to speak in tongues to be saved. That's ridiculous.
 
supernac said:
A majority of it is learned behavior. Though there is always an exception to the rule. If you can truly speak in tongues that’s great, but it’s not necessary for salvation, just a gift nothing more. A lot of it has to do with sensationalism, if you ever been to a Pentecostal service you would know what I’m talking about. Lot’s of up-beat music preachers yelling, people dancing, ext.

Sputnik: Thanks. I'm curious, however. What is it about the church you attend that DOES appeal to you? Also, while you personally don't believe that 'tongues' are necessary for salvation, what is the general view by your church on this issue of 'tongues'=salvation?
 
My wife and I are Oneness believers. Its tuff to find a church that holds that belief (been trying). That’s the main reason why we stay. We also like the preaching style and such. UPCI churches (along with most Pentecostal’s) believe that you must repent, be Baptized in the name of Jesus, then at be filled with the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
 
Julian I have already dealt with that scripture. Paul was talking about when the tongue is UNKNOWN in the congregation!!!!

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue..." Unknown to whom? THE CONGREGATION. Why is it unknown? Because there just so happens to be no one in the congregation who can speak or understand that particular language.

Paul was talking about an unknown 'glossia' which means 'foreign language'. AN UNKNOWN FOREIGN LANGUAGE. So that means, if someone was to come to my home speaking japenese then it would be an UNKNOWN TONGUE and NO MAN would understand.

Do you understand this?

As for tongues being necessary for salvation - that's wrong! Sorry to be a bearer of bad news. Tongues is a sign to those who don't believe not to those who believe. And it was a sign for the unbelieving Jews at the time who didn't believe that the new covenant had come and NEEDED PROOF.

I, however, do not need proof that God has come through with his promise. I do not seek signs! I have all the evidence I need through faith "Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the EVIDENCE of things unseen". How can one have faith in God's word if they see a sign? That's not faith at all!!!

"We are saved by faith, through grace"

If you are a sign seeker then you are an 'adulterous generation'! <--- Jesus words...not mine.

Seeking After a Sign
Certain of the scribes and Pharisees came to Jesus saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from you." But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet.? (Matthew 12:38-39 WEB)

What did Jesus mean by referring to seekers of signs as an "adulterous generation"? Jesus was being quite graphic here, painting a picture of those asking for a sign as possessing the fickleness of heart and the immoral behavior of a wife having intercourse with someone other than her husband. Considering that Israel was God's betrothed, He was referring to that apostate generation as an unfaithful wife; in this instance an unfaithful wife who still wanted the benefits of her husband.
Among the synonyms of adultery is the word prostitution. In our day a prostitute is referred to by many titles, such as whore, call girl, hustler, harlot, streetwalker, vice girl, tramp, tart, hooker, lady of the evening, and bimbo. Certainly none of these titles are becoming to womanhood. They indicate perversion, a fallen condition in which the mysterious beauty and nobility of woman is marred beyond recognition as her heart is turned from her betrothed to herself. This is the beginning of the perversion that ultimately leads her to seek gratification in other lovers, using both them and her husband for her own ends. Neither possesses her heart.

What husband would not be heartbroken to find out that his wife loved him only for what he could do for her or the thrills he could give her and that he was merely a convenience, an addition to her world. The wife who seeks thrills is adulterous in heart, if not yet in behavior. She is unfaithful first in her heart and then in her actions. She seeks the gold of her husband, not her husband. She knows nothing of what it means to be enraptured by him. She is nothing like the Shulimite maiden, whose heart was so transfixed by her Beloved that she would not rest until she found Him. "I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, if you find my beloved, that you tell him I am sick with love." (Song of Solomon 5:8 RSV)

Like an adulterous wife, the western church preaches the gospel of hedonism, the doctrine that pleasure and happiness are the highest good. This is a gospel that says in effect, "Get saved and God will bless you, then He will give everything you have always wanted." Converts to this gospel make God a fine add-on to their hedonistic lifestyle; He becomes nothing more than an errand-boy they have added to their entourage of servants, feeding the desires of their flesh. This evil is manifest in a materialistic religion where God is like the great cornucopia in the sky. God also becomes the heavenly entertainer, called upon when His children are bored and in need of excitement.

Like a wife who married a man for His money, many Christians in the church today seek God's benefits, not His person. They want phenomenal spiritual amusements, not His face. It is adulterous to make God only a part of our lives. Rather than entering God's Kingdom, people make Him a wonderful addition to their own kingdoms. It is an adulterous generation that attempts to add the Author of Life to its hedonistic pantheon.

In Matthew 12:38-39 we see that God does not give special-order signs for the amusement of men, but specific signs but that were preordained and unfold in God's timing for His purposes. Jesus had just bound a deaf and dumb spirit and cast it out of a man. As the result, the multitude of witnesses were proclaiming that He was the promised Son of David. The common people saw God in action. They saw the Sign standing in front of them. "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us)." (Isaiah 7:14, ASV).

Read the rest here - http://www.awildernessvoice.com/AdulterousGen.html
 
Let's see ?

Hi there All !

I thought that this thread was a question to the matter of " is speaking in tongues needed to be saved ?" Tongues in the Greek as it is utilized in most of the New Testament (which is written in Greek) comes from the Greek word Glossa, as it was written in the Greek and THEN translated in the English as tongues, and it means a language, such as Spanish, English, German, Chinese, Dutch, etc.; now the question was does one need to speak in a language to obtain salvation, right ? well, EVERYONE speaks in a particular language depending on what nation they are from. However, what is needed to obtain salvation is written in the Word of God, the Bible.... let us see what is says with regards to how and what one must do to obtain salvation. I think it is the most quoted verse in the Bible and many know it by heart. Let's see if it sounds familiar to you. :biggrin


John 3:16
" For God so Loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. "


So we see by this verse, which is very straight and to the point, it needs no interpretation, that JESUS CHRIST DOES THE SAVING, and not someone that speaks a language in Spanish, English, German, Chinese, Dutch, or any other language for that matter. Thanks for listening !


Abiyah
 
Merry,

Julian I have already dealt with that scripture.
His posts were from May; you joined July 1.

Unknown to whom? THE CONGREGATION.
And unknown to the speaker.

So that means, if someone was to come to my home speaking japenese then it would be an UNKNOWN TONGUE and NO MAN would understand.
Except for the person speaking it, which is not what Paul was talking about. Nor is this what happened in Acts 2.

How can one have faith in God's word if they see a sign? That's not faith at all!!!
Faith in God's Word has nothing to do with whether or not one sees a sign. One could see a sign and it could strengthen their faith. So, yes, it is still faith.

If you are a sign seeker then you are an 'adulterous generation'! <--- Jesus words...not mine.
Who said anyone was seeking a sign? This is a fallcious argument.
 

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