Bible Study Help, please! So confused…

[journeymanisnothing]

I don’t know how you gleaned this from the same verses I was reading. Can you tell me how exactly you came to this? Am I missing some verses?

I believe God created Adam in his image, which to me means Adam was made with a sense of right from wrong, but in scripture, eating from a fruit tree, being nourished or fed, can apply to our spiritual condition and not only our physical condition. For instance, the "fruit" of Christs' Spirit is love joy, etc.
God told Adam he would labor for his "harvest" in the sweat of his face. Then he said,

Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil Gen.3:22

My belief is that God was not only referring to farming, but to the crop of souls. Likewuse, he tells Eve,

I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children Gen.3:18

We can see the pain the church experienced in being fruitful bearing Gods' children. Paul said,

she shall be saved through her child-bearing 1Tim.2:15

Of course he doesn't mean all women who give birth are saved,

I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph.5:32

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Great answer. I agree. But that isn’t how He felt at the crucifixion. He has more than one emotion.

No, I disagree. For example, God says “vengeance is mine” does not tells us how God endures. He doesn’t endure as we do when He tells us not to seek vengeance. He also tells us not to judge but He does judge and there are different feelings we have as compared to his feelings in the matter.

Absolutely!! Amen!! But looking at Jesus will not tell us this and Paul didn’t think so either. Or rather only on the surface.

That is not what He felt. His “child” was a grown man who made a choice. He wasn’t a victim. What is more, he was doing God’s will. It isn’t the same.

True and it’s rare but highly commendable.

I never said that. I never would. Being united will not show any man he how God feels. Only He can share that personally and that is what Paul desired.

Yes, exactly. Obedience brings understanding.

I think part of our disagreement comes from your inference that I don't believe Christ will never seek vengence, or that we can also act in vengence like God, or his Son. Please know that I believe neither of those things.
The book of Revelation tells us people want to hide from the wrath of the Lamb, but even in this, it alludes to the reason for his wrath upon the wicked was for the opportunity of repentance.
I understand that I have much to learn, but one thing I do know is that our God is unchanging. Covered in flesh or not, Christ Jesus is God.

How do you explain what wrong us without any reference to anyone else?

I've been referencing Jesus all along.

Dorothy Mae:
How would you explain wrong to a computer or robot? You said your parents taught you right from wrong. They could not do so. They can teach us what behavior is right or wrong but that concept is built in.

I don't understand what you're arguing about. My point is Adam had a conception of right and wrong because it was "built in", without eating at all. And behavior stems from concept.

Dorothy, I don't understand what your argument is. The question of whether Adam was created with sense of right and wrong, has now become a question of what to say to a child who asks why something is wrong.
I guess if you can't understand the very simple way God intended humans to be educated, then the answer is, because it took time for humans to evolve from slime into a society which believes they developed their own sense of right and wrong.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think part of our disagreement comes from your inference that I don't believe Christ will never seek vengence, or that we can also act in vengence like God, or his Son.

Why do you think that? You’re incorrect. Vengeance on those Jews who crucified him was done in 70 AD.

Please know that I believe neither of those things.
The book of Revelation tells us people want to hide from the wrath of the Lamb, but even in this, it alludes to the reason for his wrath upon the wicked was for the opportunity of repentance.
I understand that I have much to learn, but one thing I do know is that our God is unchanging. Covered in flesh or not, Christ Jesus is God.

I agree completely!

I've been referencing Jesus all along.

I don't understand what you're arguing about. My point is Adam had a conception of right and wrong because it was "built in", without eating at all. And behavior stems from concept.

No, it wasn’t built in. That came later. It’s built in all his descendants however.

Dorothy, I don't understand what your argument is. The question of whether Adam was created with sense of right and wrong, has now become a question of what to say to a child who asks why something is wrong.

Those are two different matters.

I guess if you can't understand the very simple way God intended humans to be educated, then the answer is, because it took time for humans to evolve from slime into a society which believes they developed their own sense of right and wrong.

There’s is no evolving morals. None. No pathway, no possibility.

 

[jerry63935]

well if the o.p was is confused just think how confused they are now.

 

[XRose]

I’m a fairly recent believer and I’ve been taking the time to really read through the Bible and meditate on certain passages, but I have a couple questions about a verse that’s really perplexing me!

Genesis Ch.1
15 The LORD God put the man in the Garden of Eden to take care of it and to look after it. 16 But the LORD told him, “You may eat fruit from any tree in the garden, 17 except the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong. If you eat any fruit from that tree, you will die before the day is over!”

Firstly, why doesn’t God wish them to know right from wrong? And, how is Adam to understand it’s wrong to eat from the tree if he lacks the power of knowing right from wrong? How is he to understand that disobeying God is wrong?

The warning not to eat the forbidden fruit was a simple order that they should have had no problem obeying as we can be sure that the Garden contained a superabundance of gorgeous fruit.
It is possible that GOD had already realised Lucifer aka Satan was jealous of Adam and Eve and had already decided to sin by conceiving the idea of tricking Eve into eating the fruit and the warning was to test if they would be tricked or not.
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW AS A RECENT BELIEVER THAT EVERYONE (EXCEPT THE RAPTUREES) HAS TO DIE THEIR FIRST DEATH AND GO INTO THEIR GRAVE. BUT ON JUDGMENT DAY ALL THE DEAD WILL BE RESURRECTED TO DISCOVER IF THEIR NAMES ARE IN THE BOOK OF LIFE IN WHICH CASE THEY WILL LIVE A WONDERFUL LIFE ON EARTH WITH JESUS AND IF NOT IN THE BOOK THEY WILL BE INSTANTLY PERMANENTLY DESTROYED AND DIE THE SECOND PERMANENT DEATH.
Forget all the nonsense you have heard about heaven and hell as there is no hell except for Satan and no heaven for humans in this first life or the second one.
We are humans and are designed to live on Earth.
Make sure you look forward to surviving Armageddon and being lifted off Earth as the atom bombs fly to destroy everything.

 

[GodsGrace]

The warning not to eat the forbidden fruit was a simple order that they should have had no problem obeying as we can be sure that the Garden contained a superabundance of gorgeous fruit.
It is possible that GOD had already realised Lucifer aka Satan was jealous of Adam and Eve and had already decided to sin by conceiving the idea of tricking Eve into eating the fruit and the warning was to test if they would be tricked or not.
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW AS A RECENT BELIEVER THAT EVERYONE (EXCEPT THE RAPTUREES) HAS TO DIE THEIR FIRST DEATH AND GO INTO THEIR GRAVE. BUT ON JUDGMENT DAY ALL THE DEAD WILL BE RESURRECTED TO DISCOVER IF THEIR NAMES ARE IN THE BOOK OF LIFE IN WHICH CASE THEY WILL LIVE A WONDERFUL LIFE ON EARTH WITH JESUS AND IF NOT IN THE BOOK THEY WILL BE INSTANTLY PERMANENTLY DESTROYED AND DIE THE SECOND PERMANENT DEATH.
Forget all the nonsense you have heard about heaven and hell as there is no hell except for Satan and no heaven for humans in this first life or the second one.
We are humans and are designed to live on Earth.
Make sure you look forward to surviving Armageddon and being lifted off Earth as the atom bombs fly to destroy everything.

It's always wonderful to fill the head of a new believer with your own version of Christianity instead of sticking to the axioms.

 

[jerry63935]

It's always wonderful to fill the head of a new believer with your own version of Christianity instead of sticking to the axioms.

junk like this the admins should take out..

 

[GodsGrace]

junk like this the admins should take out..

It's the posters opinion.
Unfortunately, the other poster is a new Christian and so can be overwhelmed by such statements.
The other problem is that it's difficult to moderate each and every thread/posts.
Posts can be reported if a member thinks they're not appropriate.
The actual post must be reported or it cannot be investigated...

 

[jerry63935]

The actual post must be reported or it cannot be investigated...

nahh ive had my fill in kangaroo courts

 

[GodsGrace]

nahh ive had my fill in kangaroo courts

Jerry,
We can only do our best.
It's not easy...

 

[Adelaide]

"No choice, just love." If there is no choice to love, is it really love? Is it not "forced love," which we call rape or some other form of severe abuse?

Well, it seems to me it’d just be exactly what he created to begin with. It was paradise, right? Utopia? That’s not forced- at least it wouldn’t be as his creation ever knew it. That’s just blissful ignorance. And if he’s love incarnate, what’s not to love about a gorgeous garden filled with amazing animals, eternal life, a mate made from your own rib, and a god you can walk and talk with?

 

[Adelaide]

its not the book /bible its man kind and the devil creates the division man reads a scripture and creates a new teaching

And everyone arrives at their own interpretation, convinced they, and only they, are right. Almost like everyone is really just interpreting it to suit their own needs. Who’s really, truly right?

 

[Adelaide]

Just because God knew it would happen doesn't mean that you didn't make the choice.

But the choice was already made for them. They didn’t have a choice!

 

[jerry63935]

Well, it seems to me it’d just be exactly what he created to begin with. It was paradise, right? Utopia? That’s not forced- at least it wouldn’t be as his creation ever knew it. That’s just blissful ignorance. And if he’s love incarnate, what’s not to love about a gorgeous garden filled with amazing animals, eternal life, a mate made from your own rib, and a god you can walk and talk with?

why cant you just accept it at face value .God gave adam the instructions on what tree to leave alone . big thing eve listened to the serpent. the big question Did God Say read it again its good to ask questions that is how you learn... look some things in line of question are not profitable ( That’s just blissful ignorance. } God knew what would take place. he had a back up plan

 

[Edward]

And everyone arrives at their own interpretation, convinced they, and only they, are right. Almost like everyone is really just interpreting it to suit their own needs. Who’s really, truly right?

God wrote it like that so you wont be able to take a mans word for it. You just have to read it for yourself and see what it says.

 

[Edward]

why cant you just accept it at face value .God gave adam the instructions on what tree to leave alone . big thing eve listened to the serpent. the big question Did God Say read it again its good to ask questions that is how you learn... look some things in line of question are not profitable ( That’s just blissful ignorance. } God knew what would take place. he had a back up plan

Adam & Eve were both made aith a conscience too. They knew the rules and that it would be wrong to eat from that tree.

 

[jerry63935]

Who’s really, truly right?

the Bible as i said read the over and over that part is not hard to stand . the plan of redemption was put in place that day. see before the tree. it was big deal they was naked it was natural .

once they ate of the fruit they realized they was naked they went and hid. God covered their nakedness with animal skins. animals had to die .Jesus had to die for our sins. his Blood by giving his life for us. covers our nakedness of sin.

my advice dont be so quick to jump to conclusions . you have to keep studying it out. the Bible will not stir you wrong. what stirs us wrong is doing it on our own. which we all been there done that . everything that glitters is not Gold

 

[jerry63935]

Adam & Eve were both made aith a conscience too. They knew the rules and that it would be wrong to eat from that tree.

yes they was but the Bigger responsibility falls on adam. he got the instruction before eve was made . he had be right there by her side

 

[Adelaide]

It's not the Bible, but how many interpret it within their own carnal minds twisting the word to fit their own theology, or preconceived ideas of that which has already been written.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Now, let's take a look at the scriptures you wanted to discuss in your OP.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Satan is the deceiver, the father of lies and the tempter of our faith and works through anything or anyone to deceive those who are God's own like the serpent in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were created in the image of God, but also with freewill to make their own choices just like Satan who chose to fall away from God becoming his own god. Eve fell to that temptation as she lusted after the unbidden fruit and gave Adam to eat of it knowing full well God said not to eat of it. At that moment she and Adam ate they disobeyed God and their eyes were opened to what was good and evil paying the consequences for their actions as God took them out of the garden of Eden and had to work for everything they needed.

It's as simple as it gets without any confusion if you stick with what has already been written. There are over 5000 different religions in the world all claiming they have all truths, but we can plainly see that is not true. Be true to God and His word and you will not be deceived bu all the man made doctrines and theology that is out

So surely EVERYONE must twist the words to fit their own theology because EVERYONE has preconceived ideas of how it should be. Who actually has the perfect, exact truth then?

If God is sovereign, then he knew what Satan was to become. If he already knows the choices that are going to be made, is this really free will? He created them to make these choices…

That’s the point- it’s obviously not simple and never will be. Not to those who want more understanding. And these 5000 religions would say the same about Christianity and claim they know the truth and it’s plain to see.

 

[jerry63935]

So surely EVERYONE must twist the words to fit their own theology because EVERYONE has preconceived ideas of how it should be. Who actually has the perfect, exact truth then?

your pretty close they shouldn't BUT MANY DO

If God is sovereign, then he knew what Satan was to become. If he already knows the choices that are going to be made, is this really free will? He created them to make these choices…

imo yes God did not make us robots but read this scripture

2 Peter 1:3 Context​

1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

we are given power when we get saved !! power for what? to live the Life to overcome sin/temptation . once again he has given us all THINGS .. what is all thing ? what ever we need... the choice is ours .


your going to have to accept scripture at face value by faith. all this is not done over not and nor is it ever finished. we all have to learn and grow.


beyond that NO man or woman can help you.. they can guide you. but you have to learn how to stand on your own.

just like when you was taught to walk.. once you learned balance and how to walk. you was off and going like a bolt of lightning . if you fell or got into someplace you shouldn't. they was right there . that is how God is only he send his Holy Spirit .


that is broke down about as simple as i can explain it .

1 Corinthians 2:5​

“That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.”