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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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How does C.I and E.C.T affect the Gospel?
- Thread starter jeff77
- Start date
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Brother Mike
Guest
That is good, I missed that one. God is Able to cause all grace abound to you. So the question is, do all get the super favor of God automatacilly or is those that are faithful with little get more?
Jesus said all things are possible to them that believe. What happens if you have fear and don't believe, do you get the all things are still possible part applied to your life.
Did the same man who took heed to the Word get the same result as the man who heard the same but did not take heed and built his house on the sand?
If we removed all those other scriptures and kept Jesus saying there was Anionios punishment, and anionios life. Then this one scripture could not be removed or contradict anything else.
I believe it's the will of God to heal, but I can't discount the fact God made David's baby sick either, or ignore the fact that God said I kill and make alive. I have to understand how Jesus who showed us the Father perfectly never turned anyone away for healing and yet, Job who served God was made sick, and lost his kids and stuff. It all has to match perfectly and have zero contradictions.
Satan made David number the troops, God made David. They both have to be correct, and it took me years to grasp it once God gave other foundation.
Lots of things the Lord can't even show us because he needs to build other things in us that will give us the understanding of our questionings, because often is the case we ourselves don't understand our own question.
hell is real though, and there are folks there now waiting on Judgement. As bad as a place it is, people have the so simple escape by acknowledging Jesus as their Lord.
You can jump off the cliff, or choose not to jump and live. If the choice was Hard, God would be unjust.
Thank you for the input, and blessings.
TimothyW
Member
Do you mean the skeleton guy with the scythe?
According to the Bible, death will be abolished. Once the lost are destroyed and the saved have eternal life who is left to die? Those who have already perished? No, they have already died. Those who have eternal life? No, they have been resurrected and will never die again.
TimothyW
Member
How does this answer the question "How do you reconcile the wide road going to destruction with your doctrine that none are destroyed"?
Jesus said that the way is wide that leads to destruction. Those of us who believe that the lost will be destroyed agree with Jesus on this. Your side claims that the lost will not be destroyed but will be alive forever in the lake of fire being burned alive without dying for all eternity. How do you reconcile this belief with what Jesus said?
Imagining a Character called Death doesn't help you do this.
A
agua.
Guest
This is interesting considering there will be no more death after the judgement and sentencing. Thinking death is a being still supports annihilation. Death isn't an entity though.
1Co 15:26 KJV The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Rev_21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
One minute they will be weeping. The next minute they will be cursing God. That's what gnashing their teeth means. Rev. 14:11 specifically states their torment goes on forever. Where is annihilation specifically stated?
- 2 Thessalonians 1:9
They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
If someone will look up and read the context of every time the word 'eternal' or 'forever' is used in(english) Scripture , as has been posted by others on other threads for several weeks now I think,
they will discover a secret that those who don't look up the references will never ever see.(unless they already know Hebrew first, then Aramaic, then greek).
they will discover a secret that those who don't look up the references will never ever see.(unless they already know Hebrew first, then Aramaic, then greek).
A
agua.
Guest
Can you give me your understanding of this worm the damned have that will not die ?
Maybe they need some vermox :D
Sure. When the soul is lost in the fire, the body takes on the appearance of a worm. It doesn't look human anymore. So it's a reference to the appearance of the body. Their worm refers to the appearance of their body. Jesus said their worm, meaning their body, does not die.
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digging
Member
To be honest I have a hard time taking some of the comments made here even serious??
Jesus is not saying that there are immortal worms!
He is once again is giving an illustration, articulating complete destruction of the wicked which there is no redemption from, no resurrection from.
Look at this vs, and I ask you do Camels ever go through needles? So then why would he use such a extreme example? For emphases.
Matthew 19:24 NAS
"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Digging
Jesus is not saying that there are immortal worms!
He is once again is giving an illustration, articulating complete destruction of the wicked which there is no redemption from, no resurrection from.
Look at this vs, and I ask you do Camels ever go through needles? So then why would he use such a extreme example? For emphases.
Matthew 19:24 NAS
"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Digging
A
agua.
Guest
I haven't heard this terp before I must admit it's a beauty. The worms are external and a picture of how in Gehenna ( the Valley of Hinnom ) the maggots devour the bodies. The bodies are completely consumed. Can I ask where you got the worm man idea from ?
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chessman
Member
Is that a yes or a no? Persons have spirits (not quite sure that death does but whatever) and persons are entity's. So I'm assuming you are answering Yes.
The book of Revelation reveals
Christ. The English translation "revelation" is the Greek word:
ἀποκάλυψις, apocalypse, revelation
Here are examples of the word's usage:
Ro 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
2 Co 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 3:3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
1 Pe 1:13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Rev 1:1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
My point is, somehow/someway John was given a visionary and highly symbolic revelation of Jesus Christ (who was riding a white horse) that defeats a pale horse rider named Death by being cast into a place of death called the Lake of Fire (think of the Biblical examples of God's destructive fire, eternal fire, consuming fire).
Can you think of any reason why the verse/vision of a waring horse rider named death might be in this book of the revelation of Jesus Christ, other than the way you try to use this verse to teach spirit entity's cannot die?
Cause if you are wrong about what that verse really means, you may very well be missing out on a very real revelation of Christ himself.
BTW, I think the verse is a word picture of Christ finally conquering death (and Hell following it). Not so much a teaching that spirit entities live eternally in Hell under pain.
Revelation 20:14 And Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.
I get this idea of mine from the next verses:
Revelation 21:1, 4 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea did not exist any longer.
And he will wipe away every tear from their eyes,and death will not exist any longer,and mourning or wailing or pain will not exist any longer.The former things have passed away.”
Hmm, wailing or pain will not exist any longer? What's up with that, on your view? I get it, if spirit entities are no longer 'wailing' or 'gnashing' (though they certainly did for a while as God saw fit). But no longer.
On the ECT view, it seems there still is wailing and pain.
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If death, is thrown into the lake of fire then there will be no more death, because death himself is now in the lake of fire with the devil, the false prophet and the beast, as well as those whom Jesus cursed and sentenced to go into the everlasting fire for everlasting punishment.
This is the second death. Not ceasing to exist, but this is the second death.
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
What does this refer to????
... they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
How does this reconcile with Jesus words?
This is exactly what Jesus said would happen to those on His left hand!
Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
What is the everlasting punishment?
they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
This is the second death!
JLB
[
It's worm singular. It's not worms. Jesus is not talking about immortal worms when he says their worm does not die. And he is not making a comparison either. A comparison is a statement which compares two things; one is as another. But in this case there is only one thing; their worm.
Are they consumed by fire or are they eaten by immortal worms? One says there are no immortal worms. The other says the worms are external and they consume the body completely. However we know the destruction is by fire.
You don't agree with one another and neither one is true.
It's worm singular. It's not worms. Jesus is not talking about immortal worms when he says their worm does not die. And he is not making a comparison either. A comparison is a statement which compares two things; one is as another. But in this case there is only one thing; their worm.
Are they consumed by fire or are they eaten by immortal worms? One says there are no immortal worms. The other says the worms are external and they consume the body completely. However we know the destruction is by fire.
You don't agree with one another and neither one is true.
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Stan1953
Member
There is or was a very small gate or entrance in the wall of Jerusalem called the Needle gate. It was meant only for foot traffic, and was too small for a camel. The camel would have to crawl through it on his knees.
Now keeping that in mind, I think His comment is clearly understood.
A
agua.
Guest
Isa 66:24 KJV And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm( H8438) shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
No Jesus isn't talking about immortal worms he's talking about how the worms will continue to devour. Let's look at the def of this worm.
H8438
תּלעת תּולעת תּולעה תּולע
tôlâ‛ tôlê‛âh tôla‛ath tôla‛ath
to-law', to-lay-aw', (3,4) to-lah'-ath
From H3216; a maggot (as voracious); specifically (often with ellipsis of H8144) the crimson grub, but used only (in this connection) of the color from it, and cloths dyed therewith: - crimson, scarlet, worm.
And the word comes from the root H3216 which implies devour.
H3216
ילע
yâla‛
yaw-lah'
A primitive root; to blurt or utter inconsiderately: - devour.
We can see Jesus is talking about worms devouring the wicked.
When bodies were tossed into the valley of Hinnom. which was continually burning, they weren't immediately consumed by the flames. Sometimes a body would sit on top of the rubbish ( or other bodies ) and maggots would get a good feed. Eventually though the hungry maggots and the fire would completely consume the body.
So there's no immortal worms and the wicked are both eaten by worms and destroyed by fire.
Now can you tell me where you got the worm man idea from ?
chessman
Member
Logos' smartphone app is pretty cool as well.
For example, you can use their word study tool and see graphically how various Greek/Hebrew words are used throughout the Bible. In this way, you can see if a word's scope has a potential to legitimately be used figuratively by Inspired authors.
I've heard here on this thread by some that "worm" is a reference to a shriveled up burning human body. And destruction is a reference to torture. However, when you look at the scope of usage for each, Biblically speaking, you find no evidence for these claims:
View attachment 4536
Biblically, destruction really does mean what it sounds like it means.
View attachment 4537