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How to defend the trinity!

However, the Holy Spirit is a Person (Romans 8:26-27).
Why would a person need to search and act on their very own mind? They would simply act on their own initiative. This scripture strengthens not weakens that its the Spirit of God not a person.

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.
Vs 27 isn't needed for a person of the Godhead. Vs 26 would stand on its own for a person. Vs 27 God wills His Spirit acts according to that will.
 
Why would a person need to search and act on their very own mind? They would simply act on their own initiative. This scripture strengthens not weakens that its the Spirit of God not a person.

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.
Vs 27 isn't needed for a person of the Godhead. Vs 26 would stand on its own for a person. Vs 27 God wills His Spirit acts according to that will.
The Spirit has a mind...therefore He is a Person. He intercedes for us...therefore He is a Person.
 
"The Word was God" means exactly that. Also, John 10:30 says, "The Father and I are one". These two statements are unequivocal in their meaning.
Those who continue to deny that it was the only begotten Son of God who became flesh are the ones who will not get everlasting life. John 1:14 says the Word became flesh/human. Trinitarians say the Word is God therefore they say it was God who became flesh/human. Which means they're denying the Word is the only begotten Son of God and so they're denying it was the only begotten Son of God who became flesh/human.
 
The Word did not become the Son of God until He took on an added nature of human flesh.

He is the Son of God in that He is come in human flesh.

The pre-incarnate Son was the Word; a Spirit inhabiting eternity: even God the Father.
 
I did not suggest that the Holy Spirit is a person . The Holy Spirit is YHWH God's Holy Spirit a SPIRIT . Now we have cleared that up back to the question .

Does the Holy Spirit of God YHWH have authority over you ?
I've already answered that question, if you don't like the answer, so be it.
 
The Spirit has a mind...therefore He is a Person. He intercedes for us...therefore He is a Person.
After searching His own mind to know His own will and then intercedes according to the will of God?

okey-doke

We just need to get God to see that and we will be good to go.
Fathers promise
In these last days I will pour out "My Spirit"....
 
Those who continue to deny that it was the only begotten Son of God who became flesh are the ones who will not get everlasting life. John 1:14 says the Word became flesh/human. Trinitarians say the Word is God therefore they say it was God who became flesh/human. Which means they're denying the Word is the only begotten Son of God and so they're denying it was the only begotten Son of God who became flesh/human.
Coming to this thread late. We know all things were created by the Word, the Word dwelt among us, and the Word is God with us. What is the problem?
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Coming to this thread late. We know all things were created by the Word, the Word dwelt among us, and the Word is God with us. What is the problem?[/QUOTE\]
I have no problem, the Word is the only begotten Son of God. It was the only begotten son of God who is the Word, that became flesh/human and dwelt among us. Jesus is God's anointed one which is what Christ and Messiah mean.


 
I have no problem, the Word is the only begotten Son of God. It was the only begotten son of God who is the Word, that became flesh/human and dwelt among us. Jesus is God's anointed one which is what Christ and Messiah mean.
The Word was there in the beginning. He created the heavens and the earth by his Word. Read again John 1:1-3. It tells us the Word was God.
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Can we stay on the topic of the Trinity please. Thank you.
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I did friend, that scripture uphold the teaching authority of Christ in His church which teaches infallibility in her councils the doctrine of the most holy Trinity and the divine and human nature of Christ. Thanks
 
I did friend, that scripture uphold the teaching authority of Christ in His church which teaches infallibility in her councils the doctrine of the most holy Trinity and the divine and human nature of Christ. Thanks
Then what is the Catholic response to John's Gospel chapter 1 verses 1 to 3 please?
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Then what is the Catholic response to John's Gospel chapter 1 verses 1 to 3 please?
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That is the catholic response “the church of the apostles wrote it”!
 
The Word was there in the beginning. He created the heavens and the earth by his Word. Read again John 1:1-3. It tells us the Word was God.
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I've read John 1:1-3 many times and in many different Bibles. Not all Bibles translate these scriptures the same way. The “beginning” referred to in this verse cannot mean “the beginning” of God, because God had no beginning. YHWH God is “from everlasting to everlasting.” (Psalm 90:1, 2) However, the Word, Jesus Christ, did have a beginning. He is “the beginning of the creation by God.”(Revelation 3:14)
I noticed that the text itself shows that the Word was "with God," so could not be God, that is, be the Almighty God. I also note verse 2 of John chapter 1 which would be unnecessary if verse 1 actually showed the Word to be God. So the Word who is the only begotten Son of God, was with God in the beginning. It was through the Word who is the only begotten Son of God that God created the heavens and the earth. Additionally, I find it interesting that the word for “god” (Gr., theosʹ) in its second occurrence in the verse is significantly without the definite article “the” (Gr., ho). Regarding this fact, Ernst Haenchen, in a commentary on the Gospel of John (John chapters 1-6), stated: “[theosʹ] and [ho theosʹ] (‘god, divine’ and ‘the God’) were not the same thing in this period. . . . In fact, for the . . . Evangelist, only the Father was ‘God’ ([ho theosʹ]; compare John 17:3); ‘the Son’ was subordinate to him (John 14:28)
Ernst Haenchen gives as a translation of John 1:1c “and divine (of the category divinity) was the Word,” Haenchen goes on to state: “In this instance, the verb ‘was’ ([en]) simply expresses predication. And the predicate noun must accordingly be more carefully observed: [theosʹ] is not the same thing as [ho theosʹ] (‘divine’ is not the same thing as ‘God’).” (pp. 110, 111) Elaborating on this point, Philip B. Harner brought out that the grammatical construction in John 1:1 involves an anarthrous predicate, that is, a predicate noun without the definite article “the,” preceding the verb, which construction is primarily qualitative in meaning and indicates that “the logos has the nature of theos.” He further stated: “In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate is so prominent that the noun [theosʹ] cannot be regarded as definite.” (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) Other translators, also recognizing that the Greek term has qualitative force and describes the nature of the Word, renders the phrase: “the Word was divine.”—The Bible- An American Translation(1935) J.M.Powis Smith and Edgar J.Goodspeed; The Authentic New Testament(1958), Hugh J. Schonfield; A New Translation of the Bible(1934) James Moffatt

John 1:14 says, "the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. John 1:18 says, "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.
So John 1:14 says the Word became flesh. Basically that means the Word became human. The scriptures are very clear that it was the only begotten son who was sent to mankind, so it was the only begotten Son of God who became flesh/human. (John 3:16, 1John 4:9) John 1:18 says that no one has ever seen God at anytime. This would include the time that The Word who is the only begotten Son of God became flesh/human and came to mankind.
Also at John 1:18 is teaching us regarding the Word, the only begotten god(monogenes theos) who is at the Father's side is the one who has explained God. I know there are a few translations, in support of the Trinitarian “God the Son” concept, that invert the phrase, monogenes theos and translate it as “God only begotten.” But W. J. Hickie in his Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament (1956, p. 123) says it is hard to see why these translators render monogenes huios as “the only begotten Son,” but at the same time translate monogenes theos as “God only begotten,” instead of “the only begotten God.”
 
I've read John 1:1-3 many times and in many different Bibles. Not all Bibles translate these scriptures the same way. The “beginning” referred to in this verse cannot mean “the beginning” of God, because God had no beginning. YHWH God is “from everlasting to everlasting.” (Psalm 90:1, 2) However, the Word, Jesus Christ, did have a beginning. He is “the beginning of the creation by God.”(Revelation 3:14)
I noticed that the text itself shows that the Word was "with God," so could not be God, that is, be the Almighty God. I also note verse 2 of John chapter 1 which would be unnecessary if verse 1 actually showed the Word to be God. So the Word who is the only begotten Son of God, was with God in the beginning. It was through the Word who is the only begotten Son of God that God created the heavens and the earth. Additionally, I find it interesting that the word for “god” (Gr., theosʹ) in its second occurrence in the verse is significantly without the definite article “the” (Gr., ho). Regarding this fact, Ernst Haenchen, in a commentary on the Gospel of John (John chapters 1-6), stated: “[theosʹ] and [ho theosʹ] (‘god, divine’ and ‘the God’) were not the same thing in this period. . . . In fact, for the . . . Evangelist, only the Father was ‘God’ ([ho theosʹ]; compare John 17:3); ‘the Son’ was subordinate to him (John 14:28)
Ernst Haenchen gives as a translation of John 1:1c “and divine (of the category divinity) was the Word,” Haenchen goes on to state: “In this instance, the verb ‘was’ ([en]) simply expresses predication. And the predicate noun must accordingly be more carefully observed: [theosʹ] is not the same thing as [ho theosʹ] (‘divine’ is not the same thing as ‘God’).” (pp. 110, 111) Elaborating on this point, Philip B. Harner brought out that the grammatical construction in John 1:1 involves an anarthrous predicate, that is, a predicate noun without the definite article “the,” preceding the verb, which construction is primarily qualitative in meaning and indicates that “the logos has the nature of theos.” He further stated: “In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate is so prominent that the noun [theosʹ] cannot be regarded as definite.” (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) Other translators, also recognizing that the Greek term has qualitative force and describes the nature of the Word, renders the phrase: “the Word was divine.”—The Bible- An American Translation(1935) J.M.Powis Smith and Edgar J.Goodspeed; The Authentic New Testament(1958), Hugh J. Schonfield; A New Translation of the Bible(1934) James Moffatt

John 1:14 says, "the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. John 1:18 says, "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.
So John 1:14 says the Word became flesh. Basically that means the Word became human. The scriptures are very clear that it was the only begotten son who was sent to mankind, so it was the only begotten Son of God who became flesh/human. (John 3:16, 1John 4:9) John 1:18 says that no one has ever seen God at anytime. This would include the time that The Word who is the only begotten Son of God became flesh/human and came to mankind.
Also at John 1:18 is teaching us regarding the Word, the only begotten god(monogenes theos) who is at the Father's side is the one who has explained God. I know there are a few translations, in support of the Trinitarian “God the Son” concept, that invert the phrase, monogenes theos and translate it as “God only begotten.” But W. J. Hickie in his Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament (1956, p. 123) says it is hard to see why these translators render monogenes huios as “the only begotten Son,” but at the same time translate monogenes theos as “God only begotten,” instead of “the only begotten God.”
That is excellent. Just one point, the Believers Bible commentary has this, but I'm not going to quibble about it.

"3:14 The Lord Jesus speaks of Himself as the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God. As the Amen, He is the embodiment of faithfulness and truth, and the One who guarantees and fulfills the promises of God. He is also the originator of the creation of God, both material and spiritual. The expression, “the Beginning of the creation of God” does not mean that He was the first Person to be created; He was never created. Rather, it means that He began all creation. It does not say that He had a beginning, but that He is the Beginning. He is the origin of the creation of God. And He is pre-eminent over all creation. (Believers Bible Commentary.)

G746 beginning
ἀρχή
archē
ar-khay'
From G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 58

Thank you.
 
That is excellent. Just one point, the Believers Bible commentary has this, but I'm not going to quibble about it.

"3:14 The Lord Jesus speaks of Himself as the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God. As the Amen, He is the embodiment of faithfulness and truth, and the One who guarantees and fulfills the promises of God. He is also the originator of the creation of God, both material and spiritual. The expression, “the Beginning of the creation of God” does not mean that He was the first Person to be created; He was never created. Rather, it means that He began all creation. It does not say that He had a beginning, but that He is the Beginning. He is the origin of the creation of God. And He is pre-eminent over all creation. (Believers Bible Commentary.)

G746 beginning
ἀρχή
archē
ar-khay'
From G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 58

Thank you.
He is also stated the beginning and firstborn from the dead. He is the beginning of that event and the "first" to rise from the dead.
Paul before Agrippa
But I am saying nothing new. I am saying only what Moses and the prophets said would happen. 23 They said that the Messiah would die and be the first to rise from death.

So, to fit your theology Firstborn of all creation doesn't mean "First" of the creation of God even though it's the same word as in the Firstborn from the dead. Jesus has that supremacy.

Likewise its stated- Such a command is not needed for the one and only unbegotten God yet Jesus is His only begotten Son
When God brings the "Firstborn" into the world He commands all His angels to worship Him.

He is the only like to like begotten Son of God who was with the only unbegotten God the Father in the beginning. John 1:18 Gods only begotten Son and God who came from the Fathers presence as such a eyewitness.

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; 16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.

Begotten from the Father alone
For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Now if you belong to Jesus then you are the seed of Abraham because the believer in Christ are one with Christ just as a husband and wife become one flesh. Likewise, the Father lives in His only begotten Son without limit (fullness) and Jesus is the first and the last and the very image of the invisible God. For He and the Father are also one.
 
I've read John 1:1-3 many times and in many different Bibles. Not all Bibles translate these scriptures the same way. The “beginning” referred to in this verse cannot mean “the beginning” of God, because God had no beginning. YHWH God is “from everlasting to everlasting.”
One mistake in translation in both Gen 1:1 and John 1:1 is the addition of "the" to beginning. Both verses should be said "In beginning, God ..." and "In beginning, the word ..."

It makes a difference.
 
He is also stated the beginning and firstborn from the dead. He is the beginning of that event and the "first" to rise from the dead.
Paul before Agrippa
But I am saying nothing new. I am saying only what Moses and the prophets said would happen. 23 They said that the Messiah would die and be the first to rise from death.

So, to fit your theology Firstborn of all creation doesn't mean "First" of the creation of God even though it's the same word as in the Firstborn from the dead. Jesus has that supremacy.

Likewise its stated- Such a command is not needed for the one and only unbegotten God yet Jesus is His only begotten Son
When God brings the "Firstborn" into the world He commands all His angels to worship Him.

He is the only like to like begotten Son of God who was with the only unbegotten God the Father in the beginning. John 1:18 Gods only begotten Son and God who came from the Fathers presence as such a eyewitness.

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; 16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.

Begotten from the Father alone
For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Now if you belong to Jesus then you are the seed of Abraham because the believer in Christ are one with Christ just as a husband and wife become one flesh. Likewise, the Father lives in His only begotten Son without limit (fullness) and Jesus is the first and the last and the very image of the invisible God. For He and the Father are also one.
Col 1:16-18 KJV For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

(1) As you will know, Jesus created the heaven and the earth, which means as the creator, he is before, or the firstborn, in all things.

(2) He is the firstborn from the dead, meaning he was the first to ever resume natural life. Living proof that all mankind will be resurrected from the dead.

Firstborn means to be pre-eminent or the most important. This is what you would expect from the creator. The title of Father in relation to Jesus first came into existence only 2000 years ago, except for things like Father God.

A radical rethink of many things is needed.
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Col 1:16-18 KJV For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

(1) As you will know, Jesus created the heaven and the earth, which means as the creator, he is before, the firstborn, in all things.

(2) He is the firstborn from the dead, meaning he was the first to ever resume natural life. Living proof that all mankind will be resurrected from the dead.

Firstborn means to be pre-eminent or the most important. This is what you would expect from the creator. The title of Father in relation to Jesus first came into existence only 2000 years ago.

A radical rethink of many things is needed.
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I think its already been shown that God the Father, from whom all things came, created through His Son. through whom all things came. I just addressed the use of firstborn as the same in regard to the resurrection of the dead and the creation in the same passage of scripture but you can't even see the Son isn't the Father so how can you accept things about the Son who was? I know who my Lord is from Him and scripture. We can move on in disagreement.
 
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