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How to defend the trinity!

In that instance, Wiki is correct.
No Cooper.
You're reading about a god named yaweh.
You forgot to click on GOD IN JUDAISM to learn about OUR GOD named Yaweh because the Hebrews did not want to pronounce the name of God.

This is the article you should have read instead:

God in Judaism has been conceived in a variety of ways.[1] Traditionally, Judaism holds that Yahweh, the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the national god of the Israelites, delivered the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, and gave them the Law of Moses at Mount Sinai as described in the Torah.[2][3][4] Jews traditionally believe in a monotheistic conception of God (God is only one),[3][5][6] which is both transcendent (wholly independent of, and removed from, the material universe) and immanent (involved in the material universe).[3]
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Judaism#Godhead
 
Jesus, the disciples, and the apostle Paul did much to reconcile Jews and Gentiles, but those who sacrificed to Yahweh remained unrepentant and are still severed from the vine. There are many Christians, in name only, perhaps some here, who still hold Jewish beliefs that differ from the New Testament scriptures. For example, a Christian will say Jesus is God, while a Jew will say Yahweh is God. Yahweh is the God of one nation, while Jesus is the God of all people.
.

Who are those that remained unrepentant and still severed from the vine?
Those who are mentioned in
Romans 11:19-21
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.


Some Jews converted and believed that Jesus was their Messiah. It can't even be called conversion because they continued to worship in the synagogue for many years before they became known as Christian and were thrown out.

Hebrews also speaks to this:

Hebrews 6:4-6
4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


It was not easy in the beginning. Many Jews believed Jesus was the awaited Messiah and followed Him....only to have doubts as to having left the only belief system they knew their entire life.

The "new" Christians did not abandon the one and only God:
Yaweh
Elohim
Adonai
etc.

There is only one God and no one believed it more than the Jews that had been surrounded by pagans believing in different dieties.
Deuteronomy 6:4 THE LORD IS OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.

If Yaweh is the God of the Jews
and Jesus is the God of the Gentiles,
you have just created two Gods.

Are there two Gods?
If so, which one is the right one?

The bible teaches there is only ONE God.

Isaiah 45:5a
5“I am the LORD, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God...



I understand what you mean.

OK.
So explain, I think you didn't reply....
Are Yaweh
Elohim
El Shaddai
Jehovah

All the same god?
The answer is just a simple yes or no.
Sorry if you already answered,,,can't work this phone so well.
No matter what name you give to God, or where that name might have originated way back in the bronze age,
there is only one God.
 
Religious Conditions in Israel
The foregoing are the facts that may in general be gathered in regard to the political conditions and events relating to the Israelitic tribes during the so-called "time of the Judges." It now remains to glance at the religious and cultural conditions during the same period. The sources, and in particular the stories of the Book of Judges in its present shape, recount the repeated apostasy of Israel and its worship of the Canaanite gods: but as the accounts cite only a few specific instances, one has evidently to deal with a survey of the religious conditions of the time from the standpoint of later conditions and conceptions; and these accounts, with their interchange of apostasy and oppression, of repentance and salvation, were in fact added to the book at a later time. At the time of the Judges Yhwh was actually the god of Israel, that is, of its leaders and of the people generally, as appears especially from the Song of Deborah; and in addition Baal, the chief god of the Canaanites, was also prominent in names—for example, "Jerubbaal" = "Gideon"—and therefore probably also in the cult of Israel. Later historians regarded this as a formal apostasy from Yhwh, although it was not so in fact, because no pure cult of Yhwh existed at the time of the Judges. Yet the prophets Hosea and Jeremiah correctly judged the conditions when they complained that the apostasy from Yhwh began with the immigration into Canaan (Hosea ix. 10, x. 1, xi. 1 et seq., xiii. 5 et seq.; Jer. ii. 1-8). A relation arises between Yhwh and Baal which actually leads Israel to the verge of natural religion. The name "Jobaal" is typical of this relation; for it implies the equality of the Canaanite Baal with the Israelitic Yhwh, an implication that could not remain without consequences.

As Israel, after taking possession of the country, soon made its Yhwh analogous to Baal, who had until now been lord of the land, so it also took possession of the hill sanctuaries of the latter (the "bamot"), which were held sacred as being nearer to the godhead. The Israelites soothed their religious conscience by connecting the legends of the Patriarchs with these old Canaanite sanctuaries. Connected therewith were frequently the so-called "maẓẓebot." These were originally large exposed blocks which were "set up" ( from ), i.e., set up-right, on their broad side, and which, as seats of the godhead, received votive offerings of oil and sacrificial blood. Later they probably gave place to artistically hewn pillars which stood near the altar. The cult of Yhwh was also connected with sacred trees standing near the eminence or in the open field; but the Israelites did not accept the "asherim," which probably were originally simple trunks of trees or poles planted beside the altar as symbols of Astarte, the goddess of fruitfulness (see Asherah). As thebamot and their maẓẓebot were originally dedicated to Yhwh (comp. Ex. xxiv. 5 [A. V. 4]), the asherim, which may even have been connected with the phallic cult, had no place beside these altars; and they are in fact not mentioned in early times.

Baal and YHWH
Whatever facts can be gathered from the original accounts of that time in regard to this Yhwh cult at the old Canaanite sanctuaries, which was perhaps also influenced by the ritual of the Canaanites themselves, are confirmed by the accounts referring to several of these places of worship. Thus there was at Shechem a Baal-berith ( = "covenant Baal"), who was evidently intended as the guardian and protector of the covenant made between the Israelites and the Canaanites in regard to their dwelling together in peace (Judges ix.). As it is not explained whether he was intended to represent Yhwh or Baal, the Canaanite part of the inhabitants of Shechem probably took him to be Baal, while the Israelites recognized him, in spite of his name "Baal," as Yhwh. And Jerubbaal (Gideon), who, as stated above, went to battle in behalf of Yhwh, and erected a sanctuary to Yhwh in his native city of Ophrah, set up in the sanctuary an ephod, that is, an idol, which, in accordance with Canaanite custom and skill, was finely wrought and covered with precious metals. The later reviser of Gideon's story not unjustly regarded this as a grievous apostasy on the part of Gideon and his contemporaries (ib. viii., especially verses 27 et seq.). The Danites, on their expedition to Laish, found a similar idol on Mount Ephraim, together with teraphim, images probably representing progenitors of the tribe or race. While the narrator of the story is sure that both emblems refer to the cult of Yhwh, and are not images of Baal and Ashtaroth, the reviser thinks it necessary always to add the words to in order to indicate that they were carved and cast images (and hence did not belong to the Yhwh cult, which permitted no such images). When the Danites seized the images together with the attendant priest, and carried them to Dan, a sanctuary arose there that subsequently became famous, and whose Levitic priests traced their descent back to Moses (ib. xvii-xviii., especially xviii. 30).

https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/9052-judges-period-of
This article is not helping you:

"At the time of the Judges Yhwh was actually the god of Israell, that is, of its leaders and of the people generally, as appears especially from the Song of Deborah; and in addition Baal, the chief god of the Canaanites, was also prominent in names—for example, "Jerubbaal" = "Gideon"—and therefore probably also in the cult of Israel. Later historians regarded this as a formal apostasy from Yhwh, although it was not so in fact, because no pure cult of Yhwh existed at the time of the Judges. Yet the prophets Hosea and Jeremiah correctly judged the conditions when they complained that the apostasy from Yhwh began with the immigration into Canaan (Hosea ix. 10, x. 1, xi. 1 et seq., xiii. 5 et seq.; Jer. ii. 1-8). A relation arises between Yhwh and Baal which actually leads Israel to the verge of natural religion. The name "Jobaal" is typical of this relation; for it implies the equality of the Canaanite Baal with the Israelitic Yhwh, an implication that could not remain without consequences."

And what does the Bible say, Cooper ? What do the passages I quoted from show?
 
Defend the Trinity:
Romans 1:20 kjv
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The Godhead and power
Now I may not get it just right, but it should be fairly close
Body, Soul, Spirit

Made in image of God:
Body has genetic information (Word of God the Father. “Let Us”
……….
Soul (mind will emotions) Jesus fulfilling will of the Father. Jesus. Immune system heals/forgives us.
Hebrews 5:7 kjv
7. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8. Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffere

This shows his emotions / soul
……….,
Spirit the Holy Spirit resting on him, and the Quickening Spirit Jesus became.
…….
Maybe:
Genetics., immune system, nervous system .
At any rate there is more to us than just muscle / meat.

I know some see us as two parts, but I tend toward 3 parts. Before and after salvation / new birth, may make a difference.

Made in his image.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
"In the beginning ..." refers to a time. "In beginning ..." refers to the action.
How does that apply to Genesis 1:1 ?

In beginning God created.... OK that's an action.
But doesn't it also want to tell us of WHEN this action took place? (in the beginning) (as if there was one).
 
I have a passage I would like for us to consider.
Joshua 9:9 kjv
9. And they said unto him, From a very far country thy servants are come because of the name of the LORD thy God: for we have heard the fame of him, and all that he did in Egypt,

This is just one verse of the lies told to try and save their people from war with Israel.

This could be where the name of a different god came from. Joshua 9 is all about trying to deceive God’s children. The angel of light?
We are from a far country they said, but we have heard of your God. Really? Probably a trick like the patched shoes, worn out clothes, moldy food.

This is just speculation on my part, but imitation is a weapon we face. We have to discern spirits to see if they are of God.

Just because it sounds a little like God, it does not mean it is from God.

eddif
 
No Cooper.
You're reading about a god named yaweh.
You forgot to click on GOD IN JUDAISM to learn about OUR GOD named Yaweh because the Hebrews did not want to pronounce the name of God.

This is the article you should have read instead:

God in Judaism has been conceived in a variety of ways.[1] Traditionally, Judaism holds that Yahweh, the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the national god of the Israelites, delivered the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, and gave them the Law of Moses at Mount Sinai as described in the Torah.[2][3][4] Jews traditionally believe in a monotheistic conception of God (God is only one),[3][5][6] which is both transcendent (wholly independent of, and removed from, the material universe) and immanent (involved in the material universe).[3]
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Judaism#Godhead
What is your point?
.
 
Who are those that remained unrepentant and still severed from the vine?
Those who are mentioned in
Romans 11:19-21
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.


Some Jews converted and believed that Jesus was their Messiah. It can't even be called conversion because they continued to worship in the synagogue for many years before they became known as Christian and were thrown out.

Hebrews also speaks to this:

Hebrews 6:4-6
4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


It was not easy in the beginning. Many Jews believed Jesus was the awaited Messiah and followed Him....only to have doubts as to having left the only belief system they knew their entire life.

The "new" Christians did not abandon the one and only God:
Yaweh
Elohim
Adonai
etc.

There is only one God and no one believed it more than the Jews that had been surrounded by pagans believing in different dieties.
Deuteronomy 6:4 THE LORD IS OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.

If Yaweh is the God of the Jews
and Jesus is the God of the Gentiles,
you have just created two Gods.

Are there two Gods?
If so, which one is the right one?

The bible teaches there is only ONE God.

Isaiah 45:5a
5“I am the LORD, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God...




no matter what name you give to god, or where that name might have originated way back in the bronze age,

there is only one god..
No matter what name you give to god, or where that name might have originated way back in the bronze age,there is only one god. (Wondering)

That would be the god of ONE nation?
.
 
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This article is not helping you:

"At the time of the Judges Yhwh was actually the god of Israell, that is, of its leaders and of the people generally, as appears especially from the Song of Deborah; and in addition Baal, the chief god of the Canaanites, was also prominent in names—for example, "Jerubbaal" = "Gideon"—and therefore probably also in the cult of Israel. Later historians regarded this as a formal apostasy from Yhwh, although it was not so in fact, because no pure cult of Yhwh existed at the time of the Judges. Yet the prophets Hosea and Jeremiah correctly judged the conditions when they complained that the apostasy from Yhwh began with the immigration into Canaan (Hosea ix. 10, x. 1, xi. 1 et seq., xiii. 5 et seq.; Jer. ii. 1-8). A relation arises between Yhwh and Baal which actually leads Israel to the verge of natural religion. The name "Jobaal" is typical of this relation; for it implies the equality of the Canaanite Baal with the Israelitic Yhwh, an implication that could not remain without consequences."

And what does the Bible say, Cooper ? What do the passages I quoted from show?
The passages you posted show that the Israelites called Baal, the Golden Calf, and every idol they worshipped "Lord."
.
 
The passages you posted show that the Israelites called Baal, the Golden Calf, and every idol they worshipped "Lord."
.
You simply don't understand the context and why they would call such things YHWH. And God, YHWH, made sure they paid a hefty price for doing so.

I showed that the one true God whom you claim to worship called himself YHWH and said that was his name. And as YHWH claimed that it was he who led the Israelites out of Egypt. I also showed that as early as Gen 2, the one true God who created everything was called YHWH. If you deny all that, you are denying the Bible and what God himself has said, or must be reading an entirely different, non-Christian Bible.
 
No Cooper.
You're reading about a god named yaweh.
You forgot to click on GOD IN JUDAISM to learn about OUR GOD named Yaweh because the Hebrews did not want to pronounce the name of God.

This is the article you should have read instead:

God in Judaism has been conceived in a variety of ways.[1] Traditionally, Judaism holds that Yahweh, the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the national god of the Israelites, delivered the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, and gave them the Law of Moses at Mount Sinai as described in the Torah.[2][3][4] Jews traditionally believe in a monotheistic conception of God (God is only one),[3][5][6] which is both transcendent (wholly independent of, and removed from, the material universe) and immanent (involved in the material universe).[3]
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Judaism#Godhead
"God in Judaism has been conceived in a variety of ways" (Wondering quoting Wiki)

What is your point?

It is well known that the Israelites worshipped a variety of gods.

Read the two books of Kings and the two books of Chronicles.
.
 
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You simply don't understand the context and why they would call such things YHWH. And God, YHWH, made sure they paid a hefty price for doing so.

I showed that the one true God whom you claim to worship called himself YHWH and said that was his name. And as YHWH claimed that it was he who led the Israelites out of Egypt. I also showed that as early as Gen 2, the one true God who created everything was called YHWH. If you deny all that, you are denying the Bible and what God himself has said, or must be reading an entirely different, non-Christian Bible.
The context is that they came out of Egypt aided by the I AM, and almost immediately deserted the I AM and fell into idol worship.
.
 
The context is that they came out of Egypt aided by the I AM, and almost immediately fell into idol worship.
.
But the I AM said his name was YHWH and that he would get the Israeliste out of Egypt, in the very same discourse where he said he was I AM. Why are you are denying such a clear teaching of Scripture? You haven't even bothered trying to address the passages. It's the same response as with everything else to do with the Trinity. I once read somewhere that when the Trinity is denied, or some aspect of it, there is always error somewhere else that follows.
 
But the I AM said his name was YHWH and that he would get the Israeliste out of Egypt, in the very same discourse where he said he was I AM. Why are you are denying such a clear teaching of Scripture? You haven't even bothered trying to address the passages. It's the same response as with everything else to do with the Trinity. I once read somewhere that when the Trinity is denied, or some aspect of it, there is always error somewhere else that follows.
That is what Moses said when he adopted the god of his wife. He married the daughter of a Canaanite priest.
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That is what Moses said when he adopted the god of his wife. He married the daughter of a Canaanite priest.
.
You still ignoring vast amounts of Scripture, including what I have shown is very plainly stated. You do so to your peril.
 
How about the moderator stays on topic, obeys TOS and addresses the person whose thread it is.
.
This is relevant to the topic, which is defending the Trinity. It’s about who God is and isn’t. God says he is I Am and in the same breathe says he is YHWH. Jesus claims to be I Am and Paul says that calling on the name of Jesus for salvation is the same as calling on the name of YHWH for salvation.

The writer of Hebrews also applies a passage about YHWH (Psalms 102:25-27) to the Son (Heb 1:10-12). Note also that it is God, the Father, who says the Son was involved in the creation of everything. That shows their eternal distinction, just as John 1:1-3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16-17 all show.

So, if YHWH isn’t the one true God, not only do we have to throw out the vast majority of the OT, including Joel and the Psalms, but then Paul and the writer of Hebrews both lied, quite significantly too.
 
Revelation 1:7-8 Jesus was the Almighty.
Genesis 17:1 And the Almighty was God.

John 8:58 Jesus was the "I Am"
Exodus 3:14 and the "I Am" was God

Acts 3:14 Jesus was the "HOLY ONE"
Isaiah 43:15 and the "HOLY ONE" was God

John 8:24 Jesus is the "I Am He"
Isaiah 43:10 and the "I Am He" was God

Revelation 22:13 Jesus is the "First and the Last"
Isaiah 44:6 and the "First and the Last" was God

I Corinthians 10:4 Jesus was "The Rock"
Psalm 18:31 and "The Rock" was God

II Corinthians 11:2 Jesus was the "One HUSBAND"
Jeremiah 31:32 and the "One HUSBAND" was God

Matthew 23:8 Jesus was the "ONE MASTER"
Malachi 1:6 and the "ONE MASTER" was God

John 10:16 Jesus was the "One SHEPHERD"
Isaiah 40:11 and the "ONE SHEPHERD" was God

Acts 4:12 Jesus was the "ONE SAVIOR"
Isaiah 45:21 and the "ONE SAVIOR" was God

Luke 1:68 Jesus was the "ONE REDEEMER"
Isaiah 41:14 and the "ONE REDEEMER" was God

Revelation 19:16 Jesus was "LORD OF LORDS
1 Timothy 6:14 Jesus was "LORD OF LORDS
Deuteronomy 10:17 and the "LORD OF LORDS" was God

Philippians 2:10 Every knee must bow to Jesus
Isaiah 45:23 Every knee must bow to God

John 1: 3-10 Jesus was the "ONE CREATOR"
Isaiah 44:24 Jesus was the "ONE CREATOR"
Genesis 1:1 and the "ONE CREATOR" was God

John 1:49 Jesus was "KING OF ISRAEL"
Isaiah 44:6 and the "KING OF ISRAEL" was God
 
Revelation 1:7-8 Jesus was the Almighty.
Genesis 17:1 And the Almighty was God.

John 8:58 Jesus was the "I Am"
Exodus 3:14 and the "I Am" was God

Acts 3:14 Jesus was the "HOLY ONE"
Isaiah 43:15 and the "HOLY ONE" was God

John 8:24 Jesus is the "I Am He"
Isaiah 43:10 and the "I Am He" was God

Revelation 22:13 Jesus is the "First and the Last"
Isaiah 44:6 and the "First and the Last" was God

I Corinthians 10:4 Jesus was "The Rock"
Psalm 18:31 and "The Rock" was God

II Corinthians 11:2 Jesus was the "One HUSBAND"
Jeremiah 31:32 and the "One HUSBAND" was God

Matthew 23:8 Jesus was the "ONE MASTER"
Malachi 1:6 and the "ONE MASTER" was God

John 10:16 Jesus was the "One SHEPHERD"
Isaiah 40:11 and the "ONE SHEPHERD" was God

Acts 4:12 Jesus was the "ONE SAVIOR"
Isaiah 45:21 and the "ONE SAVIOR" was God

Luke 1:68 Jesus was the "ONE REDEEMER"
Isaiah 41:14 and the "ONE REDEEMER" was God

Revelation 19:16 Jesus was "LORD OF LORDS
1 Timothy 6:14 Jesus was "LORD OF LORDS
Deuteronomy 10:17 and the "LORD OF LORDS" was God

Philippians 2:10 Every knee must bow to Jesus
Isaiah 45:23 Every knee must bow to God

John 1: 3-10 Jesus was the "ONE CREATOR"
Isaiah 44:24 Jesus was the "ONE CREATOR"
Genesis 1:1 and the "ONE CREATOR" was God

John 1:49 Jesus was "KING OF ISRAEL"
Isaiah 44:6 and the "KING OF ISRAEL" was God
And all of that agrees with the Trinity.
 
First of all there is only 1 God and whatever our thoughts about the Trinity, Jesus is either "God with us" Immanuel, or he is God's representative. Either way, we can trust and be guided by Him. Jesus is the Good Shepherd, who leads us beside the still waters of Psalm 23 and we can see Jesus leading, caring and protecting the Israelites in the wilderness. It was the I AM who divided the Red Sea, it was the I AM who first spoke to Moses, it was the I AM who gave Moses the commandments and it was the I AM who got them out of Egypt without a drop of blood being spilled.

Then things changed. The I AM became Jehovah (Yahweh) and Aaron made a Golden Calf who he calls LORD, saying ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’” (Exo 32:8).

We have the I AM (LORD) giving Moses the commandments and we have Aaron making an image to the LORD. There are two LORDS.

Satan has always been present since Adam and Eve and Satan is known as the imposter and the deceiver. Look at Strongs Concordance and you will see that Yah (H3050) in Yah-Hovah means "god" and if you look at the second part of Yahovah "Hovah" which is Strongs number H1942 you will see it means "eagerly coveting, falling, desire, ruin, calamity, iniquity, mischief, naughtiness, noisome, perverse, very wickedness."

Satan became known as both LORD and Yahovah, and as we read through the Bible we can see two opposites, we can see the true God, the I AM who loves us, saves us, and gave his life for us so that we might have eternal life and we have the people in the crowd shouting out "CRUCIFY HIM." Jesus tells us who their god was in John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." This is the LORD, who the people followed; it is Yahweh the destroyer.

The I AM who was right in front of them, hanging from a cross, said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." And he rose from the dead. The I AM is my God. He is my heavenly Father from the beginning, and my eternal Saviour.
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