Inherint contradictions teaching Faith Alone

[GodsGrace]

The Bible makes a clear distinction between believers and unbelievers using 'descriptive' language in John 5:28-29.

John 3:18 - “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. So, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, (descriptive of believers or unbelievers?) and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (descriptive of believers or unbelievers?) It's a rhetorical question.

So, once again, *notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation are described as those who have done evil. It's obvious who the believers and unbelievers are in John 5:28-29.

The Bible further draws a contrast between believers and unbelievers using 'descriptive' language n 1 John 3:7-10. Children of God practice righteousness and not sin and love their brother. That is not said of children of the devil. In 1 John 2:9-11, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Jesus is using 'descriptive' language in order to describe believers and unbelievers.

More 'descriptive' language.

Who hears these words of Jesus and acts on them and builds their house on the rock? Believers.
Who hears these words of Jesus and does not act on them and builds their house on sand? Unbelievers.

WHERE is the word BELEIVERS in Matthew 7:24
WHERE is the word UNBELIEVERS in Matthew 7:26
??

Nowhere to be found.
Jesus is simply giving INSTRUCTION.
He is teaching who is a wise man and who is a foolish man.

Matthew 7:24, 26
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Here is what Jesus taught:
The person that HEARS HIS WORDS and ACTS ON THEM, is a wise man.

The person that HEARS HIS WORDS and DOES NOT ACT ON THEM is the foolish man.


Jesus is teaching that we must ACT on His words.
Act----->-----To Do----->To Take Action----->To Obey----->

 

[Rodger]

First of all I never said faith was a work.

None of my posts have ever sad that.

Faith is a gift from God.

Faith only comes from God.

Faith comes by hearing God speak to us.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Obedience to what God speaks to us to do is how faith is activated; made alive.

In salvation the obedience we are required to do is repent.

The way we repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.

That is how we obey the Gospel.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rodger is this really so hard for you to understand?


I’ll bet I have repeated this several hundred times over the years on this forum.

My dear friend, speaking with you is certainly a challenge.

You have stated that you have NO formal Christian education and that you have been schooled by the Holy Spirit. To me that is a unacceptable position as every single believer can say that.

you just said.............
"The way we repent is to confess Jesus as Lord."

Repentance means to change directions! It is an act where by we show remorse for the things/actions we have done.

The steps of salvation are:
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ce51...y8yMDE5LzA1L0Jhc2ljcy1TYWx2YXRpb24ucGRm&ntb=1
Hearing the word of God and having faith in the Good News about Christ.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=f92d...XRpb25jYWxsLmNvbS9zdGVwcy1zYWx2YXRpb24v&ntb=1
Admitting your sins and asking forgiveness from God.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ce51...y8yMDE5LzA1L0Jhc2ljcy1TYWx2YXRpb24ucGRm&ntb=1
Repenting and being willing to turn from your sins.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ce51...y8yMDE5LzA1L0Jhc2ljcy1TYWx2YXRpb24ucGRm&ntb=1
Accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior that he died and rose again for your sins.=Justification.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ce51...y8yMDE5LzA1L0Jhc2ljcy1TYWx2YXRpb24ucGRm&ntb=1
Connecting and growing with other believers through a Bible-based church=Sanctification.

 

[mailmandan]

Obedience to what God speaks to us to do is how faith is activated; made alive.

JLB remains confused. According to his logic, Abraham's faith was not activated in Genesis 15:6 when he believed in the Lord and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Apparently, Abraham's faith remained dead and unable to save him until many years later, after he did what the Lord said and offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 according to JLB's logic.

In salvation the obedience we are required to do is repent.

The way we repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.

The way we repent is change our mind and place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Acts 20:21) Two sides to the same coin.

That is how we obey the Gospel.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel and we will not believe the gospel unless we first repent (change our mind). JLB makes this very complicated.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rodger is this really so hard for you to understand?

I've heard certain people misinterpret Romans 10:9-10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is mute (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to "verbally confess with their mouth."

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving "lip service" to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation. Confession is a confirmation of faith (and is not a work for salvation) which is why we will be saved if we confess.

WHERE is the word BELEIVERS in Matthew 7:24
WHERE is the word UNBELIEVERS in Matthew 7:26
??

Nowhere to be found.
Jesus is simply giving INSTRUCTION.
He is teaching who is a wise man and who is a foolish man.

Matthew 7:24, 26
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Here is what Jesus taught:
The person that HEARS HIS WORDS and ACTS ON THEM, is a wise man.

The person that HEARS HIS WORDS and DOES NOT ACT ON THEM is the foolish man.

Jesus is teaching that we must ACT on His words.
Act----->-----To Do----->To Take Action----->To Obey----->

So, you reject 'descriptive' language and all of those verses that I cited to prove my point?

 

[JLB]

You're acting like a JW who keeps parroting his asinine demand "show me a scripture where Jesus said 'I am God'"

John 6:64 - But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” 66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” 68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Son of the living God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.
(I thank mailmandan who reminded me of this one)
In this context, Judas was one who did not believe, was a devil, and was to betray Jesus. So he was NOT the Lord's sheep, and therefore did NOT hear Him.

Also, your quote of John 10:22-29 actually proves my point and disproves yours, since Jesus says here "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand."
But because the devil snatched Judas, he was NOT IN HIS HAND!!

So your stubborn conclusion is wrong, unbiblical, in error, and you are willfully blind to the truth of the matter. You can't see the difference between following Jesus in the flesh and following Him in the Spirit. Since you can't see this, I conclude you aren't able to interpret scripture. Should I be done with you now, or can you open your eyes after all?

Of course the Lord knew who would betray Him.

That’s not in question.

My point is, Judas always had a choice, even after he betrayed Jesus… just like Peter.

Judas was always predestined to reign with Christ and the other eleven in the age to come.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

If you want to discuss what I’m actually discussing and not some other point that we all understand, then please comment on the words of Jesus about His twelve disciples who had followed Him and were at following Him at the time of His statement…

• who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The point any one of us can indeed fall away. This warning is taught in several places in the New Testament, and typified in the old testament.

Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 1 Corinthians 10:12-14

 

[JLB]

you just said.............
"The way we repent is to confess Jesus as Lord."

Repentance means to change directions! It is an act where by we show remorse for the things/actions we have done.

Here is what the scripture teaches.

This is what Jesus Himself taught Paul -

Words of Christ in red:

I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Notice how Paul understood what Jesus meant by His words…

• in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:17-20

Repent means turn to God.

If a person is called to turn to God, then they are called to turn away from Satan as lord.

The way we obey the command of God to repent is to confess Jesus as LORD.

This is called obeying the Gospel.

Here is some context.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?”
Romans 10:9-16

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is what the scripture teaches.

This is what Jesus Himself taught Paul -

Words of Christ in red:

I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Notice how Paul understood what Jesus meant by His words…

• in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:17-20

Repent means turn to God.

If a person is called to turn to God, then they are called to turn away from Satan as lord.

The way we obey the command of God to repent is to confess Jesus as LORD.

This is called obeying the Gospel.

Here is some context.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?”
Romans 10:9-16

Great Post !

 

[GodsGrace]

JLB remains confused. According to his logic, Abraham's faith was not activated in Genesis 15:6 when he believed in the Lord and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Apparently, Abraham's faith remained dead and unable to save him until many years later, after he did what the Lord said and offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 according to JLB's logic.

I'd say YOU are the one that's confused.
Abraham is mentioned by the author's of the NT to prove justification by believing,
and sanctification by obeying.

Abraham ALWAYS obeyed God....
Abraham took his family and moved to Haran, just as God told him to do.
TO DO.
Abraham DID what God told Him to do.

Faith is activated by action.

Genesis 12:1-4 NASB
1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;
2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
4 So Abram went forth as the LORD had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.


Those who believe God...
obey God.
They DO as God commands.
God said GO FORTH....
Abraham left his home.
God speaks commands,,,,not suggestions.

The way we repent is change our mind and place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Acts 20:21) Two sides to the same coin.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel and we will not believe the gospel unless we first repent (change our mind). JLB makes this very complicated.

I've heard certain people misinterpret Romans 10:9-10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is mute (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to "verbally confess with their mouth."

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving "lip service" to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation. Confession is a confirmation of faith (and is not a work for salvation) which is why we will be saved if we confess.

So, you reject 'descriptive' language and all of those verses that I cited to prove my point?

 

[GodsGrace]

So, you reject 'descriptive' language and all of those verses that I cited to prove my point?

Yes.
I reject your language.
I trust what JESUS stated...
very plainly and simply.

No need to add to His words...
No need to twist His words.

Jesus KNEW what He wanted to teach us....
and He plainly and simply taught it.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

 

[Rodger]

Here is what the scripture teaches.

This is what Jesus Himself taught Paul -

Words of Christ in red:

I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Notice how Paul understood what Jesus meant by His words…

• in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:17-20

Repent means turn to God.

If a person is called to turn to God, then they are called to turn away from Satan as lord.

The way we obey the command of God to repent is to confess Jesus as LORD.

This is called obeying the Gospel.

Here is some context.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?”
Romans 10:9-16

Technically, repentance is a change of mind, not a turning from sin.

The Greek word translated “repentance” is metanoia, and the meaning is simply “a change of mind.”

I understand that you are self taught the Scriptures by the Holy Spirit, so I am sure that He has pressed upon you the fact that Repentance is often associated with salvation more in Scripture than anywhere else.

I am also confident that He has taught you what happens when the Holy Spirit begins His work to bring a person to salvation?

It is the Holy Spirit that gives the sinner a personal understanding and infallible conviction that the facts concerning his spiritual state are true. He is exactly what he know he is and Those facts are his personal sin, the eternal punishment due him for his sin, the substitutionary nature of Jesus’ suffering for his sin, and the need for faith in Jesus to save him from his sin.

From that convicting work of the Holy Spirit the sinner repents—he changes his mind—about sin, the Savior, and salvation.

 

[Rodger]

JLB remains confused. According to his logic, Abraham's faith was not activated in Genesis 15:6 when he believed in the Lord and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Apparently, Abraham's faith remained dead and unable to save him until many years later, after he did what the Lord said and offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 according to JLB's logic.

The way we repent is change our mind and place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Acts 20:21) Two sides to the same coin.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel and we will not believe the gospel unless we first repent (change our mind). JLB makes this very complicated.

I've heard certain people misinterpret Romans 10:9-10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is mute (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to "verbally confess with their mouth."

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving "lip service" to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation. Confession is a confirmation of faith (and is not a work for salvation) which is why we will be saved if we confess.

So, you reject 'descriptive' language and all of those verses that I cited to prove my point?

Well stated brother.

 

[Rodger]

Yes.
I reject your language.
I trust what JESUS stated...
very plainly and simply.

No need to add to His words...
No need to twist His words.

Jesus KNEW what He wanted to teach us....
and He plainly and simply taught it.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

I would say that the words Jesus used in Mathhew 7:21 -24 would fit Judas perfectly.

However, I would also say that they would probably apply to 50% of all church members today.

The biggest missionary field in the world is the pews of Christian churches.

 

[Rodger]

WHERE is the word BELEIVERS in Matthew 7:24
WHERE is the word UNBELIEVERS in Matthew 7:26
??

Nowhere to be found.
Jesus is simply giving INSTRUCTION.
He is teaching who is a wise man and who is a foolish man.

Matthew 7:24, 26
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Here is what Jesus taught:
The person that HEARS HIS WORDS and ACTS ON THEM, is a wise man.

The person that HEARS HIS WORDS and DOES NOT ACT ON THEM is the foolish man.


Jesus is teaching that we must ACT on His words.
Act----->-----To Do----->To Take Action----->To Obey----->

Agreed, Matthew 7:24-25 teaches that those who hear and practice Jesus' teachings will have a strong foundation in their lives that will enable them to withstand the storms of life.

 

[Rodger]

I'd say YOU are the one that's confused.
Abraham is mentioned by the author's of the NT to prove justification by believing,
and sanctification by obeying.

Abraham ALWAYS obeyed God....
Abraham took his family and moved to Haran, just as God told him to do.
TO DO.
Abraham DID what God told Him to do.

Faith is activated by action.

Genesis 12:1-4 NASB
1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;
2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
4 So Abram went forth as the LORD had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.


Those who believe God...
obey God.
They DO as God commands.
God said GO FORTH....
Abraham left his home.
God speaks commands,,,,not suggestions.

Great post.....

 

[mailmandan]

Yes.
I reject your language.
I trust what JESUS stated...
very plainly and simply.

No need to add to His words...
No need to twist His words.

Jesus KNEW what He wanted to teach us....
and He plainly and simply taught it.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

I trust what Jesus said. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Expecting to receive eternal life based on works is not the will of the Father. (Matthew 7:22-23) These many people were not genuine believers and apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) they remained in their sins. Hence, you who work iniquity/practice lawlessness.

 

[Free]

Yes.
I reject your language.
I trust what JESUS stated...
very plainly and simply.

No need to add to His words...
No need to twist His words.

Jesus KNEW what He wanted to teach us....
and He plainly and simply taught it.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

I think Jesus's point is that which Paul and James make--that good works, doing the will of the Father, is evidence of already having been saved.

Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (ESV)

John's whole purpose in writing his gospel was so that we could know who Jesus is and what he did for sinful man:

Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (ESV)

Jesus taught that salvation was by faith alone, but he also taught that good works are evidence of one who has been saved:

Joh 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (ESV)

Notice that having "love for one another" is the evidence by which people can "know that you are my disciples." (See also Matt. 25:31-46.)

 

[GodsGrace]

I would say that the words Jesus used in Mathhew 7:21 -24 would fit Judas perfectly.

I'm not really here to discuss Judas.
I leave that up to God, who alone knows if he was ever saved or was always lost.

I also don't see what Matthew 7:21 has to do with Judas.
I posted what JESUS instructed him to do in Matthew 10:1
I'm going by what JESUS said...which is what I usually do in all biblical situations.

Why would Jesus send a heretic, a son of perdition - at the time - to teach what Jesus' wanted the nations to know??

This would be difficult for me to accept.

However, I would also say that they would probably apply to 50% of all church members today.

The biggest missionary field in the world is the pews of Christian churches.

I believe the point is this:
THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN.

Those that do the will of the Father are on the narrow road that leads to life.

The Parable of the Two Sons:

Matthew 21:28-31 NASB
28 "But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, 'Son, go work today in the vineyard.'
29 "And he answered, 'I will not'; but afterward he regretted it and went.
30 "The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, 'I will, sir '; but he did not go.
31 "Which of the two did the will of his father?"

Jesus stressed our obedience in all of His teachings.

Those who cry LORD, LORD, but do not do the will of the Father,,,,
will not see heaven.

 

[JLB]

JLB remains confused. According to his logic, Abraham's faith was not activated in Genesis 15:6 when he believed in the Lord and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Apparently,

Please quote the post where I said
“Abraham’s faith was not activated in Genesis 15:6”.


Abraham’s faith was activated when he obeyed the Gospel and was justified in Genesis 12.

Thus demonstrating the obedience of faith for salvation.

Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him… Genesis 12:1-4

In Abraham we are shown the scriptural pattern the Gentiles are justified by obeying the Gospel; by the obedience of faith.

Just like any Christian’s today

 

[JLB]

Technically, repentance is a change of mind, not a turning from sin.

Not turning from sin.

Turning from Satan as lord, by confessing Jesus as LORD.

Please go back and read Acts 26:15-20

Satan is the lord of the kingdom of darkness.

In order to be transferred into the kingdom of God a person must “bend the knee” to Jesus Christ and confess Him as Lord.

By this act of faith we are transferred out of the dominion of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son.

There were no elections at that time.

The stronger kingdom made the lesser kingdom subservient to the king of the superior kingdom.

In order to survive you must confess the superior king as Lord, thus pledging your loyalty to serve him and his kingdom interests.

 

[GodsGrace]

I trust what Jesus said. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

As I've stated many times now...
you don't seem to understand what the word BELIEVE means in the Koine Greek language that was spoken at the time.

To BELIEVE implies TO OBEY.

Expecting to receive eternal life based on works is not the will of the Father.

If you believe obeying the Father is not the will of the Father....
there's not much more I can say.

(Matthew 7:22-23) These many people were not genuine believers and apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) they remained in their sins. Hence, you who work iniquity/practice lawlessness.

You keep adding BELIEVERS and UNBELIEVERS and GENUINE BELIEVERS and TRUE BELIEVERS to your posts.

I read nothing of this in scripture.

Jesus taught that we are to OBEY and produce FRUIT.

If this bothers you....you are working against what Jesus taught.

Luke 11:23 NASB
23 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.


If you do not teach what Jesus taught,,,
you are scattering.

 

[mailmandan]

Please quote the post where I said
“Abraham’s faith was not activated in Genesis 15:6”.

You have stated before: Faith must have the corresponding act or “work” of obedience in order for faith to be “activated” (alive) and therefore “complete” (perfect) and able to function.
In James 2:21-22, we read - Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect or complete? Nothing is mentioned here about Abraham simply getting out of his country and his faith was made perfect or complete.

Abraham’s faith was activated when he obeyed the Gospel and was justified in Genesis 12.

Thus demonstrating the obedience of faith for salvation.

Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him… Genesis 12:1-4

In Abraham we are shown the scriptural pattern the Gentiles are justified by obeying the Gospel; by the obedience of faith.

Just like any Christian’s today

It wasn't enough to simply obey God by getting out of his country. That is not simply believing the gospel. It was not until God brought Abraham outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. (Genesis 15:5-6)