Instrumental music

[Older & Senile?]

God didn't command for us to sing using our voices either - so we're all agonna!!!

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; KJV

I'm confused by this statement by Merry Menagerie. Eph 5:19 clearly teaches that we are to sing.

But let me take another stab at this subject:

Different ones have pointed to the silence of the scriptures regarding the use of mechanical intruments of music in the worship of our God. Pardon me, but where does anyone get the idea that we can approach God based on His silence? Jesus made it very clear where we are to turn for guidance in our lives:

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
KJV

You want to worship the God of this Universe according to what He didn't say? Why? Christ even told Satan that we are to live by the word of God.

God gave us a specific command to sing. For us to go beyond His command is to do what seems right in our own eyes.

If it is acceptable to God for man to add instruments of music to His command to sing, then is it equally acceptable for man to add cheese and summer sausauge to the Lord's Supper.

There is not a single verse in the New Testament that authorizes the use of mechanical instruments of music in the worship of the church. None.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; KJV

I'm confused by this statement by Merry Menagerie. Eph 5:19 clearly teaches that we are to sing.

NO it says we are to sing in our HEARTS not with our voices. If we're going to use the logic that, if God doesn't say it then we dont' do it...then why not take it the whole way? You see that logic only works when people want to make it suit their teachings.

But let me take another stab at this subject:

Different ones have pointed to the silence of the scriptures regarding the use of mechanical intruments of music in the worship of our God. Pardon me, but where does anyone get the idea that we can approach God based on His silence? Jesus made it very clear where we are to turn for guidance in our lives:

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
KJV

You want to worship the God of this Universe according to what He didn't say? Why? Christ even told Satan that we are to live by the word of God.

For a start he DOES say and another thing....as I said above, one shouldn't sing with one's voice either...since it doesn't specifically say to use one's voice - which, funnily enough, is an instrument and it even has chords *gasp* :o

God gave us a specific command to sing. For us to go beyond His command is to do what seems right in our own eyes.

Then you better quit singing using your voice then ;)

If it is acceptable to God for man to add instruments of music to His command to sing, then is it equally acceptable for man to add cheese and summer sausauge to the Lord's Supper.

The bible DOES instruct to use instruments.

There is not a single verse in the New Testament that authorizes the use of mechanical instruments of music in the worship of the church. None.

YEs there is...you haven't been reading the thread have you? :roll:

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Here's my post again...just for you...cos I'm nice

Read the definition of 'psalm' and then tell me that the NT DOESN'T instruct instruments ;)

Quote:
"Psallo" simply means to twitch. The context determines what is being twitched. The context of the passages I provided show that it is the heart that is to be twitched. God said in the heart; not on a harp! See, God was very specific how He wanted worship to be done to Him. If you insist on using musical instruments then everyone in the assemble MUST play an instrument because the command was given to all. You CANNOT be obedient to this command with out doing so. Also, pianos, organs, drums, etc. would be eliminated from being used because they are not twitched or twanged. These last two points are moot because we don't have God's approval for their use but I just wanted to point out that the majority of churches that use instruments still would not be following God's word.


I'm sorry but you're wrong...according to strong's concordance "Psalms" means...

Eph 5:19 Speaking 2980 to yourselves 1438 in psalms 5568 and 2532 hymns 5215 and 2532 spiritual 4152 songs 5603, singing 103 and 2532 making melody 5567 in 1722 your 5216 heart 2588 to the Lord 2962;


5568 psalmos psal-mos' from 5567; Quote:
a set piece of music,
i.e. a sacred ode Quote:
(accompanied with the voice, harp or other instrument; a "psalm");
collectively, the book of the Psalms:--psalm. Compare 5603.

I also looked up MAKING MELODY...and here's what I got...

1) to pluck off, pull out

2) to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang

a) to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument so that they gently vibrate

b) to play on a stringed instrument, to play, the harp, etc.

c) to sing to the music of the harp

d) in the NT to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song


Also...the voice is an instrument as well. King David spoke prophetically about the children of zion, Israel and saints singing and dancing with instruments - we are the children of zion, saints and spiritual israel are we not? He then went onto say that God delights in it....

Psalms 149 v 1

Praise ye the Lord. Sing unto the Lord a new song and his praise in the congregation of saints. 2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of zion be joyful in their King. 3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. 4 FOR THE LORD TAKETH PLEASURE IN HIS PEOPLE: HE WILL BEAUTIFY THE MEEK WITH SALVATION.



So we have God giving us instructions to play instruments such as - stringed instruments, voice and OTHER INSTRUMENTS. Also David singing about us, the children of zion singing, and playing instruments and the Lord delighting in it.

 

[Collier]

Hi folks:Sorry I haven't been around but my computer died and I have no way to get online. I had to "borrow" a computer just to check in and let everyone know. If you are serious about pleasing God (and I am not doubting anyone's sincerity) then please do a study on this subject. Look at it from both sides (I have) and read what those opposed to your view have to say and then compare all those things to what the Bible says.Many of you know that I am a member of the church of Christ and there are many good sites you can visit to read how we stand on this issue. All I ask is you take a little time to study.Hopefully I can resolve my computer issues and be back studying with you.Take care

 

[Solo]

Hi folks:Sorry I haven't been around but my computer died and I have no way to get online. I had to "borrow" a computer just to check in and let everyone know. If you are serious about pleasing God (and I am not doubting anyone's sincerity) then please do a study on this subject. Look at it from both sides (I have) and read what those opposed to your view have to say and then compare all those things to what the Bible says.Many of you know that I am a member of the church of Christ and there are many good sites you can visit to read how we stand on this issue. All I ask is you take a little time to study.Hopefully I can resolve my computer issues and be back studying with you.Take care

Answer the questions that come up with these New Testament scriptures:

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Revelation 5:8

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: Revelation 14:2

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Revelation 15:2

 

[Older & Senile?]

These passages from Revelation are not dealing with the worship of the New Testament church. They are figurative references to what John saw in his dream and are descriptions of heaven.

These are not applicable to the worship of the church. If they were, you would need four beasts and only the twenty four elders could play, and even then only harps...

The simple truth is that to add mechanical instruments of music to the worship of God in this day and age is done so without authority from God.

 

[Amity]

NRoof:

You may need to provide me with specifics but if these activities were performed as part of a sacrifice then the answer is no.

I have not yet read all 5 pages of this topic before responding, but your comment sparked my interest. If this has already been addressed, please accept my apologies. I would like to present an article which shows the Biblical and historical reasons why it would be sinful to use mechanical instruments in worship today. Musical instruments were indeed used during the sacrifical part of the OT worship.

Click here for the specifics you requested

I believe that to use them in worship today is binding a point of the old law, and therefore by binding any point of the old law, Paul says one has fallen from grace. (See Galatians 5) I'm not willing to risk my eternal soul because drums or a piano might "sound good" to us. Besides, when one hears the amazing praise offered up of saints in beautiful heavenly harmony, one needn't wonder why God asked for our voices and melody from our heart, without addition from man made instruments.

God asked for us to sing. I sing. Who am I to come to God with my own righteousness (i.e. traditions of man)? (Romans 10:3) We were created for His pleasure (Revelation 4:11), therefore I'm going to follow His will as best I can by using the Book He provided as our guide. Nothing more, nothing less.

I pray my contribution to this thread has helped rather than hindered our look into what the word says about this very important topic. May God bless us all as we seek His will in all we do.

In Christian love,

 

[Amity]

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; KJV

I'm confused by this statement by Merry Menagerie. Eph 5:19 clearly teaches that we are to sing.

NO it says we are to sing in our HEARTS not with our voices. If we're going to use the logic that, if God doesn't say it then we dont' do it...then why not take it the whole way? You see that logic only works when people want to make it suit their teachings.

[quote:ee5a8]But let me take another stab at this subject:

Different ones have pointed to the silence of the scriptures regarding the use of mechanical intruments of music in the worship of our God. Pardon me, but where does anyone get the idea that we can approach God based on His silence? Jesus made it very clear where we are to turn for guidance in our lives:

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
KJV

You want to worship the God of this Universe according to what He didn't say? Why? Christ even told Satan that we are to live by the word of God.

For a start he DOES say and another thing....as I said above, one shouldn't sing with one's voice either...since it doesn't specifically say to use one's voice - which, funnily enough, is an instrument and it even has chords *gasp* :o

God gave us a specific command to sing. For us to go beyond His command is to do what seems right in our own eyes.

Then you better quit singing using your voice then ;)

If it is acceptable to God for man to add instruments of music to His command to sing, then is it equally acceptable for man to add cheese and summer sausauge to the Lord's Supper.

The bible DOES instruct to use instruments.

There is not a single verse in the New Testament that authorizes the use of mechanical instruments of music in the worship of the church. None.

YEs there is...you haven't been reading the thread have you? :roll:[/quote:ee5a8]

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.


I'd say we would use our voices to teach and admonish one another.

In Christian love,

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Amity - Please read the whole thread.

Collier - I've STUDIED scripture and the greek meanings for the words and have come up with my own conclusion. Maybe you should do the same...do your OWN study and not rely on MEN to teach you what isn't there.

 

[Amity]

Amity - Please read the whole thread.

Merry,

I have now. I quoted you after I got to the end.

Oh, and hello. :D I'm new here.

The article I posted the link to in a previous post is very informative and scriptural if you are interested.

God bless you, and good night.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

What about the rest of what I posted? The definitions of 'psalms' for a start - give us direct instruction for instrumental music since 'psalms' are a 'piece of MUSIC and a SACRED ODE. "making melody" is also done with music - as the strong's concordance says.

Then we have David's prophetic words - which people forget to address.

I rest my case

 

[Solo]

These passages from Revelation are not dealing with the worship of the New Testament church. They are figurative references to what John saw in his dream and are descriptions of heaven.

These are not applicable to the worship of the church. If they were, you would need four beasts and only the twenty four elders could play, and even then only harps...

The simple truth is that to add mechanical instruments of music to the worship of God in this day and age is done so without authority from God.

So the Old Testament Saints like King David can worship God with instruments, and those in Heaven can worship God with instruments, but the New Testament Church can't because God doesn't want the Church to play instruments, even though he did not say not to.

It is interesting that you would point to the actual worship of those in heaven as being figurative since it doesn't match up with your indoctrination and beliefs.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Philippians 1:6. being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

Yes it does seem strange that it would be ok for everyone but us!! ;)

 

[Collier]

Merry:Read your definition again and notice the last one! In the New Testament is means to singIf you insist on forcing the idea of instruments of music into the N.T. definition then there are some things you must keep in mind. If instruments are to be used then everyone in the assembly must use them because the command is to all. Also, only instruments that can be plucked or twanged could be used. No pianos or organs or drums.

• Now, can you name me one church that has all its members play an instrument and not use a piano or organ?

• As far as the Revelation reference goes, Older & Senile answered those.

• Why would it be strange that God allowed musical instruments in the O.T. and heaven? We are neither under the O.T. law nor in heaven. What we need to be concerned with is what God allows now. There can be no doubting that God allowed them in the O.T. because He was specific about it but God does not say one word about their use in the N.T.

• God said to sing and make melody in the heart. Again, He is being very specific telling us exactly what He wants. The question is do we seek to worship God the way He describes or how we like?

 

[guibox]

There can be no doubting that God allowed them in the O.T. because He was specific about it but God does not say one word about their use in the N.T. [/list]

• God said to sing and make melody in the heart. Again, He is being very specific telling us exactly what He wants. The question is do we seek to worship God the way He describes or how we like?

So why not in the NT? If they were so perfect and encouraged by GOD to worship HIMSELF with by His followers, why would it all of a sudden by anathema and not allowed in the NT when the fullness of God's salvation has come to pass, thus making us want to worship Him EVEN MORE??

What has changed, Collier?

Absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence. If only singing was encouraged throughout the whole scripture with NO evidence of instruments being used you might evne have a bit of leg to stand on.

Your argument that it is okay in the OT and in heaven but not in the NT or today because we are not in heaven or in the OT is completely laughable and without any logical merit.

The NT doesn't tell us how to serve food, cultivate our land, clean our houses, how to observe secular entertainment, how to manage our hectic lives, how to name our children, whether we should have domestic pets and hundreds of other things. The bible only mentions cattle and not owning domestic pets, so owning domestic pets is against the scripture because it isn't mentioned there.

That is the sense of your strange logic...

I guess we can't do any of the above mentioned things either because the Bible doesn't mention them...Perhaps if we were in heaven or in the OT we could do them. :roll:

 

[Collier]

guibox:What you fail to realize is that God has said what He wants. Why is that so hard to understand?What has changed is that God requires His people today to worship in Spirit and in truth. N.T. worship is of a spiritual nature while the O.T. was of a physical nature. There is where it changed, musical instruments appeal to the physical while singing and making melody in the HEART is to the spiritual.Again, the NT doesn't tell us how to serve food, etc. but it does tell us how to worship God acceptably.

 

[Solo]

guibox:What you fail to realize is that God has said what He wants. Why is that so hard to understand?What has changed is that God requires His people today to worship in Spirit and in truth. N.T. worship is of a spiritual nature while the O.T. was of a physical nature. There is where it changed, musical instruments appeal to the physical while singing and making melody in the HEART is to the spiritual.Again, the NT doesn't tell us how to serve food, etc. but it does tell us how to worship God acceptably.

So then playing instruments in heaven is a physical non-spiritual activity? What a goofy understanding of spiritual and physical.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Have you considered that God gave us a list of various ways that we can worship him for a reason? Does that mean then that we are to sing psalms and hymes and spiritual songs all at the same time? Every single one of us?

So no...not all have to play musical instruments every time they worship. But they can.

 

[Wildfowler]

Is it sinful to worship God with musical instruments?

Is it sinful to worship God without musical instruments?

 

[Older & Senile?]

Would it be sinful to apply a little peanut butter to the unleavened bread as we observe the Lord's Supper?