Interecessory Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[chestertonrules]

That is the crux of the issue. I believe the leap was made by those who rejected traditional Christian teaching. The people that selected the books of the New Testament believed in intercessory prayer.

For issues not clearly explained in scripture, it is often helpful to go to the early Church and see what the apostles taught their followers.

Well, we're going to have an ongoing separation of approaches. What in effect you are saying here is that God's message to us is incomplete; that He had more to say but didn't say it.

Jesus did say much more than the words compiled in the New Testament.

Jesus didn't write a book, he started a Church. This Church then proceeded to preserve and proclaim his message by both written and oral teaching.

The bible can be used to say almost anything. Without a living Church guided by the Holy Spirit we can never know the Truth.

Jesus didn't leave us in that situation, however, he gave us a Church and he told us to listen to the Church. He never once mentioned the New Testament.



Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."


Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."


Also, from Paul:

1 Tim 3 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

[chestertonrules]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[
Hi Chester

Unreal ! Why do you not answer my question ? As it was you who brought Rev. 12:1 to the conversation pertaining to Mary ! ! You are the one claiming that Mary is in heaven. Now show scripture that would substantiate this claim of yours !

That's not what you posted. You posted a silly evasion because you were unable to deal with scripture.

Rev. 12 tells us that we are all(those who follow Jesus) the children of Mary.

Why wouldn't we ask her to pray for us?

 

[Mysteryman]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[
Hi Chester

Unreal ! Why do you not answer my question ? As it was you who brought Rev. 12:1 to the conversation pertaining to Mary ! ! You are the one claiming that Mary is in heaven. Now show scripture that would substantiate this claim of yours !

That's not what you posted. You posted a silly evasion because you were unable to deal with scripture.

Rev. 12 tells us that we are all(those who follow Jesus) the children of Mary.

Why wouldn't we ask her to pray for us?

Hi

Where did you ever get the idea that Rev. 12:1 tells us that ?

Because she is dead ! ?

 

[Mike]

Jesus did say much more than the words compiled in the New Testament.

Jesus didn't write a book, he started a Church. This Church then proceeded to preserve and proclaim his message by both written and oral teaching.

Chestertonrules, think about what you just said. You are a Trinitarian, aren't you? 3 in 1? Who is the True Author of the Bible? I'm not asking who penned the books. Who Authored the Word?

The Holy Spirit Authored the Divine Word. This is God's written message to His people. I'm also assuming you would agree that the process of determining Canon was Inspired. If the Word was inspired, and the process in assembling the Bible was inspired, this would have to be God's complete message to His Church.

To your point, there is much that is left unsaid of Christ, because it's not necessary to His purpose in writing it.

John 21:
24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
25Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

I'm citing this verse with confidence that if God deemed something important enough to know that wasn't included in the Holy Bible, the hand of the Holy Spirit would have led the Council of Nicaea to include other texts. If it was the Will of God, our Holy Bible would have more than it has.

The Bible is the complete Message to His Church. Absolute. Complete. Without error. Period. Exclamation point. :amen :amen :amen

 

[hacim]

Since there IS NO "Biblical support" for anything other than:

Praying to Father in Jesus' name.

and

Praying (to Father in Jesus' name) in an intercessory manner for one another.

There's no problem NOT showing what isn't there. Simple as that.

Nobody doubts that the "Dear departed" are "alive in heaven" -

but the simple FACT of Scripture is that there is ABSOLUTELY no indication that they, in Heaven are involved with, or are in a position to even be AWARE of prayers "addressed" to them, OR in a position to "Arm twist" Father, or Jesus to do OUR bidding.

On the contrary, the WORD teaches the He KNOWS OUR EVERY NEED - even before we ask, AND that He LOVES us with a PERFECT love - SO WHO NEEDS some supposed "Canonized Saint", or "Blessed Virgin", or "Aunt Millie" to "pressure" Him.

We pray for one another to show our LOVE and commitment to each other HERE.

All the rest is nothing but Superstition.

The Catholic "Tradition" is long on teaching their people to try to "Gimmik" God into doing their bidding. In fact one of the prerequisites for Canonization is that the dear departed must PROVE he has the "Clout" with God to get prayers addressed to HIM Answered.

Umm ...actually, this is not correct ...and not necessarily "catholic understanding' unless you are using a diferent bible?...

We have the story of Lazarus, the rich Man and Father Abraham .... all dead and in this parable we have communicaion between heaven [or the bosom of Abraham - not hades - but where ever it is] ... and the Rich Man in the abode of the damned [or where ever it is that those who won't be entering into heaven exist]... Abraham would have been long 'dead' before the time of Lazarus and the Rich Man .... the Rich Man shows concern for his living brothers .. dying at different times -they hear and speak with each other ...

The Book of Revelation has the Saints clamoring for vindication .. asking how long ..thus thy are aware that the time on earth is not yet fullfilled .. and the Lamb answers that their numbers are not yet complete - ie information about the suffering of this world ... and they carry the prayers of those on earth - the prayers are like incense - in bowls - placing them before God ..

However you break the imagery down, there are Saints already in heaven and place our needs before our God.

 

[Mike]

Umm ...actually, this is not correct ...and not necessarily "catholic understanding' unless you are using a diferent bible?...

Are you referring to the Orthodox church? I must admit my limited understanding of Eastern Orthodoxy, but my understanding is that they are basically the same church as the Catholic church, except they broke away in renunciation of the papacy. I'm open to education if there is more substantive differences than I'm aware of. Other than them, who also prays to saints for intercession?

While your Revelation account gives me pause to reflect on the Saints' concern for those left standing, it is that they could have a general concern over all the world. It wouldn't suggest that they are omnipresent and can hear the prayers of individual people who pray to them for intercession.

Hacim, if you're so inclined, could you comment on my post above about the Bible being the complete and perfect message from God to His Church? And I would pose my question to you as well: Why is there no scripture where a person prays to anyone but God in the Name of Jesus?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"The Rich Man shows concern for his living brothers .. dying at different times -they hear and speak with each other ... "

STRAWMAN - there's nothing in the cite that indicates that ANYBODY was responding to or aware of "Prayers from Living individuals" of presenting them in "intercession".

That the Dear departed are "alive" and aware of their "Local" surrounding is a given - but unrelated to the question.

The Book of Revelation has the Saints clamoring for vindication .. asking how long ..thus thy are aware that the time on earth is not yet fullfilled

STRAWMAN - there's nothing in the cite that indicates that ANYBODY was responding to or aware of "Prayers from Living individuals" of presenting them in "intercession". The "Saints" are clamoring for THEIR OWN "Vindication". That the world is "suffering" was well known to 'em all before they died.

"However you break the imagery down, there are Saints already in heaven"

Sure - no problem there - and Saints on Earth as well - ALL "Christians" are "Saints" before God.

the "Vials" of "Prayers" show no connection to intercession by anybody in HEAVEN based on prayers offered TO THEM from earth. So just another STRAWMAN.

"and place our needs before our God."

STRAWMAN -there's nothing in the cite that indicates that ANYBODY was responding to or aware of "Prayers from Living individuals" of presenting them in "intercession".

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus did say much more than the words compiled in the New Testament.

Jesus didn't write a book, he started a Church. This Church then proceeded to preserve and proclaim his message by both written and oral teaching.

Chestertonrules, think about what you just said. You are a Trinitarian, aren't you? 3 in 1? Who is the True Author of the Bible? I'm not asking who penned the books. Who Authored the Word?

It doesn't follow that because God INSPIRED (not wrote) the writing of the Bible, that it is completely the Word of God, or that "this" is all that God wants us to know about living a Christian life.

Case in point: Stem cell reseach. To my knowledge, not a word is mentioned in the Bible.
Case in point: Polygamy. We see the practice, and a number of Protestants, such as Martin Luther, defended the practice from the Scriptures.

And finally, we have Paul telling us to hold onto the traditions given, both in oral and in written form. NOWHERE does the Bible tell us that the oral traditions are abrogated, that oral understandings of the written word are done away with, or that there is some sort of swallowing of oral traditions into the written. THAT is a tradition of men, since it tells us to forget about part of God's Word to His Church.

The Holy Spirit Authored the Divine Word. This is God's written message to His people. I'm also assuming you would agree that the process of determining Canon was Inspired. If the Word was inspired, and the process in assembling the Bible was inspired, this would have to be God's complete message to His Church.

It doesn't follow. You are presuming that ONLY God's written Word is inspired or from God. God gave men the power to bind and loosen other Christians. Clearly, the Bible is vague on a number of issues - otherwise, we wouldn't be discussing subjects like this with each other. God did not leave us with the mindset of private interpretation, because God has REVEALED something to us. It is an objective revelation, a truth that does not depend upon how we interpret it. To protect "the faith once given to the saints", God left a "pillar and foundation of the Truth", where the Spirit dwells within this Temple to lead it to all truth.

To your point, there is much that is left unsaid of Christ, because it's not necessary to His purpose in writing it.

John 21:
24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
25Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

I'm citing this verse with confidence that if God deemed something important enough to know that wasn't included in the Holy Bible, the hand of the Holy Spirit would have led the Council of Nicaea to include other texts. If it was the Will of God, our Holy Bible would have more than it has.

That is a presumption that is not necessary IF God left men with the power to bind and loosen FROM ABOVE.

The Bible is the complete Message to His Church. Absolute. Complete. Without error. Period. Exclamation point. :amen :amen :amen

Please tell me where the bible states that "it" is the complete message. The bible was never intended to be a "complete" systematic theology book, because the independent writers obviously did not get with one another to compile such a work... Furthermore, there are a number of things that Christians are expected to do but are rarely discussed in the Bible, like HOW to receive or conduct Baptism, HOW to receive or conduct the Eucharist. Jesus said we must do both to have eternal life, but the Bible has precious little to say on HOW TO DO IT!

That is because the Church's oral teachings cover such things, part of the Tradition handed down and charged to be maintained.

Regards

 

[chestertonrules]

Chestertonrules, think about what you just said. You are a Trinitarian, aren't you? 3 in 1? Who is the True Author of the Bible? I'm not asking who penned the books. Who Authored the Word?

The New Testament was inspired by the Holy Spirit, but it was written by the Church.

The Holy Spirit Authored the Divine Word.

Then why do you reject the crystal clear teaching therein?

The Holy Spirit told YOU to listen to the Church. Why don't you?

I'm being a bit blunt here, but you are leaning on your own understanding rather than accepting what the Holy Spirit inspired the Church to write.

Please comment on these passages and tell me how you apply them in your life:

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

 

[chestertonrules]

"The Rich Man shows concern for his living brothers .. dying at different times -they hear and speak with each other ... "

STRAWMAN - there's nothing in the cite that indicates that ANYBODY was responding to or aware of "Prayers from Living individuals" of presenting them in "intercession".

He is interceding for his brothers. What do you think prayer is?

 

[chestertonrules]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[

Hi

Where did you ever get the idea that Rev. 12:1 tells us that ?

Mary is our mother if we hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Rev. 12
17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

 

[Mysteryman]

Chestertonrules, think about what you just said. You are a Trinitarian, aren't you? 3 in 1? Who is the True Author of the Bible? I'm not asking who penned the books. Who Authored the Word?

The New Testament was inspired by the Holy Spirit, but it was written by the Church.

The Holy Spirit Authored the Divine Word.

Then why do you reject the crystal clear teaching therein?

The Holy Spirit told YOU to listen to the Church. Why don't you?

I'm being a bit blunt here, but you are leaning on your own understanding rather than accepting what the Holy Spirit inspired the Church to write.

Please comment on these passages and tell me how you apply them in your life:

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Hi
Many false teachers use your strategic concept.

Hearing the truth must first come from someone who is speaking the truth. Someone or some group claiming to be the church is a false premise. Only truth needs to be accepted. Those anointed with the Spirit of truth will accept the truth as the Spirit of truth will confirm this to you.

Way too many organizations have made these same claims you have made here. Many have fallen for their lies and deceit. This is why the scriptures tell us, that my people are destroyed because of a lack of knowledge. The false teachers know this, so they exploit it whenever and whereever they can. This tactic is not new, and no one should be blinded by this false tactic.

 

[Mysteryman]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[

Hi

Where did you ever get the idea that Rev. 12:1 tells us that ?

Mary is our mother if we hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Rev. 12
17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Hi

You are holding to two false premises here.

1. You believe that Rev. 12:17 is talking about Mary, when in fact it is not.

2. You quote from a faulty translation, thus rendering your understanding as being deluded.


Rev. 15 is talking about the serpent casting out water after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. When Jesus was born, there was no flood to carry Mary away with.

Rev. 12:17 is talking about the remnant of her seed, not her offspring.

Mary is not "our mother" !

The New Jerusalem above is the mother of all. And the Word tells us that she is barren. Gal. 4:26 - 27

 

[chestertonrules]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[

Hi

You are holding to two false premises here.

1. You believe that Rev. 12:17 is talking about Mary, when in fact it is not.

So you say. Please defend your position.


[quote:11q0uesb]2. You quote from a faulty translation, thus rendering your understanding as being deluded.

[/quote:11q0uesb]


Who is this child?

Rev. 12
5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

 

[Mysteryman]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[

Hi

You are holding to two false premises here.

1. You believe that Rev. 12:17 is talking about Mary, when in fact it is not.

So you say. Please defend your position.


[quote:3mjjh6r9]2. You quote from a faulty translation, thus rendering your understanding as being deluded.

Who is this child?

Rev. 12
5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.[/quote:3mjjh6r9]



Hi

No one ever taught you that there are two totally different women in chapter 12 of Rev. ? It is no wonder the confusion or trap you have fallen into.

Rev. 12:5 is talking about Jesus , there is no doub about that whatseover . However, Rev. 12:5 is not talking about Mary. Like I said before, the context of Rev. 12:1 continues on through verse 5. So this woman is heavenly not earthly.

Before I give you any additional information here on this woman. Let me ask you as to why you think that Rev. 12:17 is Mary, and Rev. 12: 5 is Mary ?

 

[chestertonrules]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

Rev. 12:5 is talking about Jesus , there is no doub about that whatseover . However, Rev. 12:5 is not talking about Mary. Like I said before, the context of Rev. 12:1 continues on through verse 5. So this woman is heavenly not earthly.

Before I give you any additional information here on this woman. Let me ask you as to why you think that Rev. 12:17 is Mary, and Rev. 12: 5 is Mary ?

Because it is clearly the same woman. Here's the chapter.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ahuli]

Since there IS NO "Biblical support" for anything other than:

Praying to Father in Jesus' name.

and

Praying (to Father in Jesus' name) in an intercessory manner for one another.

There's no problem NOT showing what isn't there. Simple as that.

Nobody doubts that the "Dear departed" are "alive in heaven" -

but the simple FACT of Scripture is that there is ABSOLUTELY no indication that they, in Heaven are involved with, or are in a position to even be AWARE of prayers "addressed" to them, OR in a position to "Arm twist" Father, or Jesus to do OUR bidding.

On the contrary, the WORD teaches the He KNOWS OUR EVERY NEED - even before we ask, AND that He LOVES us with a PERFECT love - SO WHO NEEDS some supposed "Canonized Saint", or "Blessed Virgin", or "Aunt Millie" to "pressure" Him.

We pray for one another to show our LOVE and commitment to each other HERE.

All the rest is nothing but Superstition.

The Catholic "Tradition" is long on teaching their people to try to "Gimmik" God into doing their bidding. In fact one of the prerequisites for Canonization is that the dear departed must PROVE he has the "Clout" with God to get prayers addressed to HIM Answered.

Umm ...actually, this is not correct ...and not necessarily "catholic understanding' unless you are using a diferent bible?...

We have the story of Lazarus, the rich Man and Father Abraham .... all dead and in this parable we have communicaion between heaven [or the bosom of Abraham - not hades - but where ever it is] ... and the Rich Man in the abode of the damned [or where ever it is that those who won't be entering into heaven exist]... Abraham would have been long 'dead' before the time of Lazarus and the Rich Man .... the Rich Man shows concern for his living brothers .. dying at different times -they hear and speak with each other ...

The Book of Revelation has the Saints clamoring for vindication .. asking how long ..thus thy are aware that the time on earth is not yet fullfilled .. and the Lamb answers that their numbers are not yet complete - ie information about the suffering of this world ... and they carry the prayers of those on earth - the prayers are like incense - in bowls - placing them before God ..

However you break the imagery down, there are Saints already in heaven and place our needs before our God.

Does the word "parable" mean anything to you? The imagery Jesus uses here is taken from the popular misconceptions of the times. Jesus spoke in parables, only, when He had a message to give. The story of Abraham and Lazarus would have to agree with what the bible says about death and resurrection. It does NOT.

 

[Ahuli]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[


And please don't tell me that catholics don't do this.

Read it for yourself:

970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."511 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."

What are you trying to say? Please explain. Thank you.

 

[chestertonrules]

Does the word "parable" mean anything to you? The imagery Jesus uses here is taken from the popular misconceptions of the times. Jesus spoke in parables, only, when He had a message to give. The story of Abraham and Lazarus would have to agree with what the bible says about death and resurrection. It does NOT.

Mark 12
26 “But now, as to whether the dead will be raised—haven’t you ever read about this in the writings of Moses, in the story of the burning bush? Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said to Moses, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 27 So he is the God of the living, not the dead. You have made a serious error.â€

 

[chestertonrules]

Re: Interecessor Prayer/Communion of Saints: Biblical Support

[

What are you trying to say? Please explain. Thank you.

I'm pointing out that Catholics don't worship anyone but God.

Those who claim otherwise don't understand the Christian faith as practiced by Catholics.

970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."511 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."[/quote]