Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?

[grumix8]

You are confuse Icon you only see one point of the whole area doesn't mean your are right but on the contrary you just hold that one word such freewill a word in the modern world has created does not mean it doesn't exist. Freewill exist and god created it and wants us to see it how he holds it to see he has freewill given and Jesus is our example of freewill perfect he had it how it wants and in the eyes of the lord he came here to show to us he's way of how freewill. Don't be like the scientist saying he doesn't have opportunities when he is lazy and wants his way instead of God's way.


You do not understand what is freewill from God's point of view or from Jesus point of view.

 

[GodsGrace]

Easy to say. Impossible to show proof because it isn't there. Give us your Free Will verses. I doubt you can even give a definition of Free Will.
There, 2 easy challenges.

Give us the Trinity verses.

 

[GodsGrace]

Exactly. People set up their version of how God must be 'fair' or whatever (you used 'cruel farce') and invent (you used the word ASSUME) Free Will.

Aside: Other invent universalism, purgatory, turning bread and water into parts of God at Mass, yahda, yahda, yahda ... people love to shape God's essence to match their perception of what God's must do in situations.

You might be doing exactly the same thing FF.
Why do you think it' the OTHER PERSON that is making up a God of their own?
I hope you realize that it is the reformed and the reformed only that believe as they do.

Better to believe some guys from the 1500's that changed what was believed from the beginning....
Or better to believe what was from the beginning?

I'll take those that were taught by the Apostles instead of those that came up with some odd ideas 1,500 years after Jesus died.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello W, If you learned what any of the verses mean that would help.

You question if God is in control of whatsoever comes to pass. In this account of gen20, anyone with any degree of biblical understanding would see not only that God being omniscient is aware of all sin, but can step in and prevent it at anytime if he wanted to. You choose to make as if that is not obvious,, then wonder why you remain in the dark biblically.


It did not prove any point as I have posted many times that God controls every single particle in the universe.
I believe the confessional truth that millions of others believe, that the biblical God is in control of whatsoever comes to pass, and that He does so without being the author of sin.You cannot welcome that truth, because evidently God has not allowed you to do that.

No you do not, you remain spiritually blind as a bat. You miss it by a mile.

In the book of Amos, it is the inspired word of God, for you to suggest otherwise is dumb, and unbiblical.That is a direct inspired statement from Amos, not some casual, mistaken attributing of something random to God. Such carnal reasoning keeps you and anyone who follows in these footsteps ignornat of truth. As you turn from scriptural light you find darkness.

The text is the word of God written says God did do it, as did all of chapter 4. Why do you attempt to read the bible if you are not believing it is the inspired word of God 100%?
Amos4:
6 And I also have given you cleanness of teeth in all your cities, and want of bread in all your places: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

7 And also I have withholden the rain from you, when there were yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered.
9 I have smitten you with blasting and mildew:
I have sent among you the pestilence after the manner of Egypt: your young men have I slain with the sword, and have taken away your horses; and I have made the stink of your camps to come up unto your nostrils: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.
God did these things, all of them! They were not attributed to Him unjustly as you suggest

We believe isa.45:7, do you?7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

No he cannot be, and that is exactly what the confession of faith of all mainstream Calvinists teach, to any with understanding.

The truths of scripture offered to you should sink in, if you consider what God has actually revealed, rather than your foolish quest to avoid and brush aside the truth offered to you.



You owe me a tray of eggplant parmigiana, for making me repeat myself

Come over. I'll make it for you and very good too.
I never said anything was attributed to God unjustly.
I might have to stop speaking to you...we don't seem to communicate very well.
I do believe I know the truths of scripture.
You level insults at me all the time....I'm reminding you that you're in the Theology Forum and the TOS
rules are strictly kept. Please be careful what you say to me and others.

So I see from your post that you DO agree that God creates evil.
So what are we arguing about?
Why do you tell me God does NOT create evil?
Why make me post all those videos stating He does by your top theologians if you agree with me that Calvinists/Reformed believe GOD CREATED EVIL??

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen. She's at it again. Won't define Free Will, rarely uses scripture and misquotes others rather than quote God to support her R.C. case.

Again .. no one disputes that I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the approx. 1/2 the world does not have 'free will' ... either because as adults they died and never heard of Christ .... or died too young to have heard of Christ.
Aside: Of course, some preach another gospel to ineptly try to explain things like: another chance after death, purgatory, another gospel of salvation that doesn't need knowledge of Christ.

Please remember that this is the Theology Forum.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

Someone can control something, without being the cause of the problem. It does not mean God caused it.
You are not making any sense at all.

Why am I not making sense?
YOU are the one that believes that God predetermined/predestinated/decreed/caused EVERYTHING to happen that happens.

So how could you state that someone can control something without being the cause of it?
OF COURSE I believe that.

It's YOU that gets confused....
Calvinism/Reformed believes that GOD IS THE CAUSE OF ALL THAT HAPPENS.

They believe that God CONTROLS EVERYTHING and CAUSES EVERYTHING.
I'd post some more stuff, but you posted it yourself just a few posts ago.

You seem to post one thing (from the confessions)
but then show that you either do not understand it OR do not accept it.

This is going to be my last post regarding t his.
I just can't handle the misunderstandings.

God did not tell Satan not to do anything?

Here is a major problem once again. You cannot read accurately or you intentionally mis state truth to twist a point. Here is what God said;
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

God forbid Satan from taking Job's life. He could do anything else to him, but not his life. Which is it?
Did you not understand this? Or are you twisting it on purpose?

What am I twisting on purpose?
We're discussing Job here?
God told satan not to do something and satan obeyed.
What's to discuss?
EVERY Christian knows God is IN CONTROL.
They just don't believe God created evil for His own pleasure.
This is a horrendous belief.

God is love.
1 John 4:8

In God there is no darkness.
1 John 1:5

God loves the world.
John 3:16

The only confusion is from your keyboard. James White is 100% accurate that when such evil events occur, they were ordained to take place. In fact, they could not take place unless they were ordained to take place. If you do not understand this, which looks to be the case, you cannot come to truth here.
Explain how something can take place outside of God's knowledge and control???
How does something sneak past an all knowing God.???

OK.
So now you DO agree that God creates evil?

You didn't a few posts ago.

Remember only Calvinists and/or Reformed believe God created evil.

 

[grumix8]

Remember there many definitions of freewill. Determinism, freewill modern liberalism, freewill biblical, freewill your own experience, and freewill thru God his way when he created creationa nd from Jesus point of view how he wanted.

We are all learning freewill and we are seeing the deep of this huge field of freewill theology which is great in rich text and defines our relation with him in if we really trust, we trust him a percentage, we trust him like a child to a parent or we do not realize what we are ? Really we don't know the trueselves. Remember God says he has meant before you were born and he has plan of God for ya. He sent you here for a purpose one you and him agreed when he sent you here to do something he wanted to find your purpose on how you use your will and put in his hand find the secret thing of God sent you here.

He will reveal it to you in prayer and test and find the relation of Jesus how he used freewill and find when you try to do it like him even do impossible you will find why he sent you here in this planet.

We all have different purposes here in this planet but what he wants in his secret plan for you only and to do his plan you will discover the secret of life and love and his will.

Our will must be in his to know what he wanted us to do ;D.

 

[grumix8]

Be the person you were before he sent you here, when you were in heaven for some it's being a child again for others being the mature and repsonsible person to achive like Jesus it will be revealed those secrets of us inside. The world teaches us to be liek the world and buy and sell, eat and drink and just sleep forget the world and you important. When you find God and you dig inside of you and ask God tell me why you sent me here to save my friends to go to war and save someone you have in your perfect plan or for me just for one day help someone you want in the future he becomes christian and enjoy the rest of my life with my family and he agve it easy for you ;D. it could be the smallest things or biggest to be president. He told you to be here in this world.


This is why we must go and ask him and pass God's test and when he sees he will show you his secret things in the bible and show you met him in heaven and he had plan and i'm not saying you are angel he sent you for in the bible Jesus says we will be like angels but in greek and other translation when he says that he just comparing us we cannot prove we are angels in this context but regardless he has a plan and he wanted us to be here for a special reason.

 

[grumix8]

Ask God what is he sent you and you will find the secret of freewill and see things in Jesus view in how perfect will in God you have freewill if your the person that comes close to be like Jesus , he will reveal to you why he sent you and give you the powers to get to heaven, to being preisdent to find true love, to be like Jesus and love all like he does and show that secret he gives us all about him and do the thing he wanted you to find. And go thru all probablities to get there and find the things he wanted you showing that Huldah mistake and Moses mistake of hitting the rock and in error of man destiny can be changed but thru love and prayer to him and finding true love finding his secret of why he sent you, and finding the real things of the bible perhaps is why he sent you, so you can find the real things of the bible and help the world.

See that the error of Moses and huldah shows by example that destiny can go other way and for a purpose he has in secret and thru he's test he can reveal secrets their and showed us Moses error was left to show we can do the opposite and change the destiny by love and faith we could change error in love and it can go into actions in the future that will change histroy and we can move destiny not in error like moses but love can change it ? Yes it is possible even though you cannot understand that something I do understand of how the universe and possibilities can change and we can change things for good and not make the mistake like moses did and huldah and get more people saved and have more people been baptized yes. Their are exception and God has given us exceptions that destiny can be changed and that determinism by his will can exist without him be having control all over the universe.

 

[grumix8]

And love is how God shows he can change the universe and chaneg timelines and move things in a better way ? Yes. God could end our civilization end this and do another things and change us all. God can erase form our minds and erase in that instant to israelites in the desert to forget moses amde that error or send an angel in that instant stop him from making that error nothing is impossible to the lord. God can but he wants us to learn he wants us to love he wants us to be in his story in our universe.

Truly he can change it all make it perfect he is God. God of gods, but by doing those things he lets us see the blindspot to our advantage that we can change our destiny to be president to be the secret things he sent you here to know what purpose, to do more than we our just simple human beings but with him we can change the future and be what we want. Some of you do not understand that because you do not know becuase you don't know why your here but I know why i'm here and know those secret stuff becuase he told us all why he sent us here from heaven and it's in the bible and your personal life to know what those things are.

Some of us will the real things of the bible and when we know we realize he a bigger plan than we know he wanted us to do the secret stuff of the bible. ;D.

 

[GodsGrace]

Very great posts.
:nod

 

[grumix8]

We made it

not really antinatalist what we did but we got thru the question

the answer to the question ;D.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Why do you think it' the OTHER PERSON that is making up a God of their own?

Everyone does to some extent. Those, like the Reform theologians, depend more on scripture .... whereas people like you rarely use scripture to back up their opinions or, ridiculous as it may sound ... won't even define what they mean by FREE WILL which is paramount in a thread entitled "Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?"
As I said before, you can't find FREE WILL in the Bible (Aside: save 'free will' offering which is a different matter. Maybe that's what you mean by FREE WILL as you won't define it, who knows)

I hope you realize that it is the reformed and the reformed only that believe as they do.

???? The statement is valueless. You can replace "reformed" with any denomination and thus the statement is valueless.
I.E.

I hope you realize that it is the Roman Catholic and the Roman Catholic only that believe as they do.

Better to believe some guys from the 1500's that changed what was believed from the beginning....
Or better to believe what was from the beginning?

You never use scripture, do you. You rarely stay on topic. Attack the messenger and not the message is a sign of a weak or non-existent argument. Why don't you use the Bible to make a point .... 'cause FREE WILL is not found there.

Not that anyone has been able to contradict my previous empirical proofs showing beyond doubt that over 50% of the population do not have FREE WILL because they are unaware of Christ.
Unlike you, I will use scripture to address the topic: "Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?"
Hmmm... like I can ream off 400 verses ...some more to the point than others.... let's try John 6:29
Premise 1: Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.”
Premise 2: Galatians 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law
Conclusions: First we see John 6:29 declares belief as a work and that that work is accomplished by God. Since Free Will is maintains belief is a function of man and that contradicts John 6:29 we know FREE WILL is a lie.

But wait, there's more. Paul warns those who rely on WORKS like FREE WILL in Galatians
Gal. 1:6 I am astonished and extremely irritated that you are so quickly shifting your allegiance and deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different [even contrary] gospel;
... and what is that gospel?... it's the gospels of Works in order to earn salvation.... Galatians 5:2 gives an example ...Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation].
.... Circumcision being an example of the belief that works must be added to faith to save a person and we are told that such a thing nullifies saving FAITH... Gal 2:21 I do not ignore or nullify the [gracious gift of the] grace of God [His amazing, unmerited favor], for if righteousness comes through [observing] the Law, then Christ died needlessly. The two pillars of the gospel are the grace of God and the death of Christ, and those are the two pillars that, by its very nature, legalism destroys. The person who insists that he can earn salvation by his own efforts undermines the very foundation of Christianity and nullifies the precious death of Christ on his behalf.
This is an ominous warning to the works salvation of Roman Catholics.

Finally, but far from exhaustively we have John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the right [the authority, the privilege] to become children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— [we're talking salvation here] 13 who were born, not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].
In black and white... we are not born of the will of man (FREE WILL)

.... good luck .... or as the Bible says .... PREDESTINATION

 

[Fastfredy0]

We are all learning freewill

How can you learn of FREE WILL from God when it's not found in the Bible. Show me some verses? Define what you mean by Free Will.

The thread is about Biblical Free Will and you last, long 4 post never mention a bible verse on the subject .... very telling

 

[grumix8]

 

[grumix8]

i'm kramer and fastfredy your Jerry ;D.

Life is moving in our direction in lfie moments ;D.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How can you learn of FREE WILL from God when it's not found in the Bible.

How can one learn about courage when it’s not in the Bible? How can one learn to read the Bible when that’s not in the Bible? How can one learn about kindness when it’s not in the Bible?

Show me some verses? Define what you mean by Free Will.

That you don’t know what free will is explains why you have difficulty with the concept. It’s been defined over and over for you but the matter eludes you still.

The thread is about Biblical Free Will and you last, long 4 post never mention a bible verse on the subject .... very telling

Where’s the Bible verse in this post accusing her of not having one? Telling..

 

[GodsGrace]

Another case of “no one showing you” something obvious?

If 50% have free will, then free will is not a myth and you’ve established that, thank you. Showing a bias is free will as that is freely chosen. Besides, 50% don’t follow their parents.

or C or D or E or none or all

Being without influence is your personal definition and does not match the rest of the world

There is no logical connection between the two. In some places, few find a way to live and avoid habits that kill them. Does not mean there were unable to freely choose that lifestyle.

That is not what free will is and no one thinks this is the definition except those who have decided of their free will to redefine to be something that is a lie. Free will is the ability moral beings have (man and angels) to make choices among options choosing what, if anything, will have influence over that choice. And we just need ONE example to establish this because "no free will" as you believe means NO ONE ON THE PLANET EVER MAKES A CHOICE FREELY. So I just need one example to prove you wrong.

There are billions of people who never heard of tacos, seen a live kangaroo, were chased by a shark or ate moose. So?

Now the fallacy is you are locked into is thinking that because a choice or two is not yet available, those people have no internal ability to choose anything at all in life. Who is making them choose as they do you cannot establish, but SOMEONE else is controlling them. Who is that and what evidence do you have for this?

There are people born who cannot see. There are people born who cannot here. They are people born with no legs or arms. Does that mean they are no longer humans? Having the ability to make moral choices (among others) from options is intact in man. That a man is in a coma does not mean there is no free will in the universe. All the others, 75% of them reach the age of accountability and are therefore making free will choices.

All those who are not, establish that there is free will. The decline of Christianity in the west show us that there is free will. IN fact, just one person who does not choose the same faith as their parents establishes the fact of free will and there are those in the population who do this according to you. Free will is proven.

Your definition of free will is personal so that you can attack that straw man. You decide to define it as something no one thinks it is, a straw man argument.

Free will is found everywhere in the Bible from God telling Adam to CHOOSE or NOT CHOOSE to Revelation where people will be judged for their choices made freely.

This was really easy to disprove but I know it will be received with eyes closed and "you do not see it."

Great post D
The other member does not accept biblical proof.

I gave him many verses that show choice is free from coercion. A year later he still complains so I've withdrawn somewhat from discussing.

Thanks for picking up the baton!

 

[Iconoclast]

If God told satan not to do anything, and satan did it anyway,

HOW DOES THAT PUT GOD IN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING??

God did not tell Satan not to do anything, and satan did it anyway as you suggest here.
This is not honest on your part is it?
Here is what I said;
God forbid Satan from taking Job's life. He could do anything else to him, but not his life. Which is it?
Did you not understand this? Or are you twisting it on purpose?

Because later on you posted this;
What am I twisting on purpose?
We're discussing Job here?

If God told satan not to do anything, and satan did it anyway,

HOW DOES THAT PUT GOD IN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING??

Now you post God told satan not to do something and satan obeyed.
What's to discuss?

What is to discuss is you changing and saying the opposite to suggest I was confused.
You suggested God told Satan not to do anything, and Satan did it anyway, so you suggested God was not in control. Now when you were corrected you change it to say the opposite. That is not honest my friend.

 

[grumix8]

Satan is the promblem but we can avoid him always did God use satan for a purpose yes he did. Did he ahs his own will ? Yes. Still a mystery of him but we must put our will in God's to achieve what he wanted from us before he sent us here and find what is he's way for us. And find the way to do what he wanted us to do it is different for all of us. We are not angels.