GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I liked AMAZING ROBOTS TALK ABOUT FREE WILL. So true.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Don't sentences 4 and 6 conflict?
no, not at all,you cannot have a God who is in total control who has random events taking place that he does not know about, or does not control....read the book of Job., look at the cross,Acts2:23
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GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
But you didn't explain why....
You said:
1. God is not the author of sin.
2. God is in control of whatsoever comes to pass.
How does that not conflict?
Was God in control of the events of the cross?
He did not force reluctant sinners to crucify Jesus.
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God,
ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
[it was planned and determined by God, by they were responsible]
They did what they intended to do.
God did not force satan to afflict Job> Satan was allowed to afflict him, but not take his life.
Did God force Josephs brothers to put him in the pit?
20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me;
but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
They did the sin, God used it to save much people, just like the cross.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
God used it for good.
ALL Christians believe this.
What YOU said is that God is causing the sin because He has full control over everything that happens.
We've been through this before and you either need to change your language OR accept that you believe in a faith that states that God created even evil and USES IT to His own pleasure.
Do I need to post John Calvin again?
Or MacArthur again?
Or Piper again?
Dorothy Mae
Member
Totally conflicts. Both are not possible but are mutually exclusive.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Agreed.
Sometimes I wonder if calvinists understand their own belief system.
No, you insist in trying to put words in my mouth.
You will never see me post that God is the author of sin.That is not possible.
No need to post people who do not speak for me. John Piper does not speak for me.
God does not make anyone sin, at any time.
Does sin and evil exist, YES. Does God force people to sin<NO...at no time.
Nothing takes place outside of God's control....all Christians do not believe this! You do not.
Gen20...read it and learn from it.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
God does not always intervene or withhold sinners from their sin, read and learn;
REV.6:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
God knew all about those being killed by evil men.
Did He stop them?...NO.
Did God force the evil men to kill the believers...NO.
Had they been killed yet? NO
These are the biblical facts...YES
Do you and others seek to suggest that God is the Author of sin, yes you do.
Stop it. Repent and believe the clear teaching of scripture. I can only declare it to you.
You suggest I change my language, NO..This is the biblical declarations.
Read it over and over, and see if it sinks in.
What you agree to here, is both of you do not understand these truths at all.
No...you totally lack understanding of this.
No, you do not "believe it"...God used it for good,YES...Does the text say, God made these wicked men do it, they did not want to, but God forced them to do it, NO
Show any post where I said God caused men to sin??? A direct quote, not your failed understanding of what I posted.
God is in control of all that happens, or He is not God! You do not grasp this! Did God control Satan in the book of JOB? Did He tell Satan , no, you cannot do anything to him, but Satan did it anyway?
Evil existed before the fall Gen 2:17
You did not understand him the first 10 times you posted it, and misrepresented the others also. Try sticking to scripture.
How about Amos?
6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
You know what I honestly think Icon?
You should stop calling yourself a Calvinist or a reformed person.
You do not seem to agree with that faith system, which is why we have such contradictions between you and me and what we believe of each other's faith systems.
You're not really a Calvinist.
This would solve all this go around that gets us nowhere.
Be back in a while for the longer post...
I am a mainstream Calvinist which you do not recognize because you do not quite get it. You claim you do, but you do not. I understand the wording of the confession of faith, you do not; watch again;
Chapter 3 Of God’s Decree
1 God hath a decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;
yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin
nor hath fellowship with any therein;
nor is violence offered to the will of the creature,
nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;
in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness d in accomplishing his decree. ( a Isa 46:10; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17; Rom 9:15,18; b Jam 1:13; 1Jo 1:5; c Act 4:27-28; Joh 19:11; d Num 23:19; Eph 1:3-5) 2 Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,
yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions. ( e Act 15:18; f Rom 9:11,13,16,18)
You do not understand or agree with this. I DO.
You violate these truths on a daily basis.
I explain that to you and you take offense and suggest I change my wording.
I am, just not one you can stuff into defective explanations of it.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I'm sorry if you believe I do this Icon.
I really don't mean to.
OK. But they speak for Calvinism/Reformed.
So why call yourself that?
Even the Confessions state that God created evil.
I could look it up again but it's really late here right now.
But then why say that GOD CONTROLS EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS?
You just did it again !
1. God does not force people to sin.
2. Nothing takes place outside God's control.
??
It's conflicting !
What do you want me to learn?
Because God kept him from sinning with her?
This just proves my point that you believe God manages everything.
Oh. I see where you're going with this.
I've told you this before.
In the OT many things that just happened are attributed to God.
They were monotheistic unlike the civilizations around them and they saw God even in what He PERHAPS did not even do.
NO!
Calvinists/Reformed are those that are taught that God created evil and uses it.
God IS NOT the author of sin.
What do you think should SINK IN?
That's how I feel about YOU!
grumix8
Member
Icon we already had this discussion check pages before and se please we have adressed this. the verses their are more that explain your argument I have read them but read deep in scripture, Wondering is only helping you understand truly freewill a huge area that we need to see the whole picture and see how God will want it. Not thru our own experience but what he originally planned in the Eden is how he wanted freewill to work for us. Put things in God's hands and add more verses to your argument please.
Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?
Free Will is a lie that is easily proven so.
Free Will defined as: the decision of all individuals to believe salvificly outside of the control/influence of others.
Premise 1: There are 3 billion people who never heard of Christ -see https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...lion.who.have.never.heard.of.jesus/136398.htm
Premise 2: One must know of Christ to be saved (John 3:18)
Conclusion: Free will is impossible to at least 25%
Premise 1: Approximately 25% of individuals do not reach the age of accountability due to abortions, sickness, miscarriages, war, etc.
Conclusion: Free will is impossible for all these people
Premise 1: Children have a great tendency to be of the same religion as their parent(s) ... see https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...us-upbringing-and-current-religious-identity/
Conclusion: The decision of people is very often not entirely their own which contradicts the concept of free will
Premise 1: Free Will is not found in the bible
Conclusion: Free Will is not biblical. ... like "dah".
Attachments
Hello G8,
The problem is that the bible does not teach mans will is free.
Man has self will, but it is bound by his sin nature, There is not one verse that teaches free will.