Is Jesus considered to be God?

[glorydaz]

It is my experience that all those who do not know Jesus Christ approve of the military and dont have any qualm about killing their enemy against Jesus' commandment of "love your enemy".

They say Jesus is God but they dont respect and honor His commandment.


Christianity is a way of life, not debating the Scriptures.

You can be as peaceful as Ghandi and still not be saved.
Unless you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord you cannot be saved.

Look closely at your savior and Lamb, as John sees Him, and then tell me He isn't God Almighty.

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

 

[follower of Christ]

A man and a Lamb, but not divine?

Like I said already, I dont read the Scriptures more than it says.

Nor, apparently, do you even accept what it DOES say.
Jesus is the Word and the Word is with God and IS God.
That must not be clear enough

ONe has to wonder whom YOU actually think is 'Word' who was WITH God and WAS God is
Is it nobody ?
Is God a schizo ?

 

[follower of Christ]

I disagree with you and we have to agree to disagree and wait on what Jesus says when we meet Him.

take care.

One who rejects the clear scriptures that Jesus is the Word who is with God and IS God had better hope that it isnt required reading. ;)

 

[follower of Christ]

I suggest you ask the Lord to open this section of scripture to your heart.

Thank you. I also suggest that you take it seriously that you may be reading into scriptures more than it says and interpreting them wrong.

take care.

YOuve got to be joking.
We've shown you VERY clear scripture.
99% of what you offered DIDNT say anything that you seem to think it said and the ONE verse that you might be able to use makes Jesus a 'bad' man if taken literally

 

[follower of Christ]

It is my experience that all those who do not know Jesus Christ approve of the military and dont have any qualm about killing their enemy against Jesus' commandment of "love your enemy".

Oh good grief.
So now youre taking Jesus' teachings to the Jews against their hardhearted sense of personal VENGEANCE as meaning we cant have a military to keep the Saddam Husseins under control ?
If we thought the way you seem to gent, we'd all be eating from Nazi plates right now.

Loving your enemy doesnt mean that we cannot, as a nation, protect the innocent.
Im appalled that your lack of biblical comprehension has caused you to come to such absurd conclusions.

Let me guess, youre like others Ive talked to who seem to believe what you do who claim they'd actually let a man rape their own child because theyre supposed to 'love their enemies' ?
Im not accusing you so dont even play martyr here. Im asking you a direct question.

They say Jesus is God but they dont respect and honor His commandment.

Wrong chap...YOU simply do not UNDERSTAND the context and intent.

Christianity is a way of life, not debating the Scriptures.
.

And yet here you are.
And please dont pretend that because you SAY you arent debating that you arent.
Youre here disagreeing with us...you ARE debating.

 

[shad]

You can be as peaceful as Ghandi and still not be saved.
Unless you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord you cannot be saved.

I have been professing Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Are you reading my posts? I repeated my confession for Jesus many times. You said you are interested in what I have to say yet you are not reading my posts, obviously. I just dont read the Scriptures like you trinitarians do.

Even if you make your interpretations seem so scholastic and intelligent, if you dont honor Jesus' commandment like "love your enemy" by killing your enemy, you are only lip serving Jesus. Jesus hates hypocrisy, friend. There is no room for hypocrites in God's kingdom.

I know many, many Christians like me, I am not the only one. Jesus' true servants are everywhere in the world.

 

[follower of Christ]

I have been professing Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Are you reading my posts? I repeated my confession for Jesus many times.

But...shad....if Jesus IS God then you ARENT actually professing the TRUE Jesus Christ...kwim ?

I just dont read the Scriptures like you trinitarians do.

Wrong friend, you IGNORE the most blatant and obvious data there is.

I'll ask you once more...WHO is the 'Word' who is WITH God and IS God in the beginning (John 1)...this Word that became flesh and dwelt among us ????
The context of John 1 is presenting Jesus Christ and who He is.
How can anyone mistake what is presented there ?

WHO is this 'Word' who was WITH God and who WAS God and who became flesh and dwelt among us? WHO is it ?

You can keep ignoring the question, but it only helps to expose your fallacy when you cannot give us a clear answer that MAKES SENSE

Even if you make your interpretations seem so scholastic and intelligent, if you dont honor Jesus' commandment like "love your enemy" by killing your enemy, you are only lip serving Jesus.

Again, WHO is promoting killing of anyone ?
Do you always have to resort to this sort of exaggeration to feel justified ?

I know many, many Christians like me, I am not the only one.

And ?
Jesus tells us that MANY false ones will arise...Paul shows in Acts that they would come from our very ranks ....so what if many believe as you do...that doesnt make them or you right.

 

[Solo]

Some profess Christianity and have a form of godliness, but they deny the power of God. From these, turn away.

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come . 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded , lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away . 2 Timothy 3:1-5

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1 Corinthians 1:24

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:22-23

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: 1 John 2:2-3

Those who do not know that Jesus Christ is God Almighty are not born again. They have a form of godliness, but they deny the power of God which is His becoming man to redeem His creation.

 

[Solo]

THE DEITY OF CHRIST - A CENTRAL ISSUE.

There are some who deny Christ was God, and who claim neither the Bible nor Christ taught this. Any cursory reading of the New Testament or the major Messianic passages in the Old Testament clearly show that only those unfamiliar with Scripture could make such a claim. If one denies the Deity of Christ because of a bias against the supernatural, that is one thing; the Chapters on historical evidence and fulfilled prophecy thoroughly address that issue. But to say the Bible or Christ did not teach this is quite another, and easily shown to be false by simply reading it!

The Deity of Christ is a central issue because God had to become man to die, but He also had to be God for that death to be efficacious for the sins of the entire human race. Therefore belief in Christ as Savior must include who the Scriptures declare Him to be. Thus, a denial of any aspect of the totality of who Christ is results in a faith that is not saving faith (1 John 2:22,23; 4:2; 2 John 1:7).

Furthermore, the fact that Christ was God has resulted in a comprehension of the Divine character not otherwise attainable. It provides a profound glimpse into the depth of His love and mercy, which reveal it is the moral, not the metaphysical majesty, that is highest, if not the distinctive, in the Divine Being.

The gracious condescension of the Son of God, as God, in becoming man, is a sublime act of self humiliation. But Christ’s humiliation is His glorification, the glory of Divine love revealed. John says “and the Word (who is God, according to verse 1) became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory...†(John 1:14). The glory John speaks of is that of Divine grace and love, revealed in word, deed, and suffering. Only by becoming poor could He fully reveal the depths of His moral nature. It is through the incarnation that Divine love can fully communicate itself, and only then does it reveal its omnipotence, when it conquers hearts, and has the strong for a prey.[1]

All this and more is nullified by the false attempts to deny Christ’s Deity. Not only does it prevent salvation, but a denial of Christ’s Divinity dishonors God by veiling the beauty of who God is, and consequently lessens the moral power over human hearts. It also reduces God to the same level as the heathen Gods made up by men, whose greatness lies merely in the fact of being High.

The Bible declares Christ to be both God and Man, united in one person. It is my hope that any true seeker after truth who has denied Christ as God because of confusion over Bible verses that refer to Christ’s human nature will have their questions answered by the following discussion.

• Christ is the Creator.

Genesis 1:1 says that God created the heaven and the earth. Yet numerous times the New Testament states Christ created the heaven and earth.

John 1:3,10: “All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being...†“He was in the world, the world was made through Him, but the world did not know Him.â€

Colossians 1:15-17: “ And He is the image of the invisible God... For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created by Him... He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.â€

• The New Testament directly states that Christ is God.

Philippians 2:5-8: “Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.â€

Hebrews 1:3: “And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact represent- ation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.â€

Colossians 2:9: “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwelt in bodily form.â€

John 1:1,14: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...â€

• God the Father calls Christ God.

Hebrews1:8: “But of the Son He says, Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His Kingdom.â€

• Christ’s enemies knew He claimed to be God.

In John 10:30-33 Jesus says “I and the Father are one.†The Jews then took up stones to stone Him, and Jesus then asks them for which good work they wanted to kill him. They replied “for a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy....because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.â€

• The Old Testament declares Christ to be Jehovah

There are different words used for God in the Old Testament. “Elohimâ€, which is translated “God.†Also the word “Adonai†which is translated “Lord.†The personal name of God was written as YHWH, with no vowels between the letters. The name was considered so Holy, they hesitated to even speak it, preferring Adonai instead. YHWH may have been pronounced “Jehovah,†or more likely, “Yahweh,†which comes from the verb “to be.†It basically means “He who is,†or “I am who I am†and declares the Divine Self-existence. Yahweh is translated “LORD†in all capital letters in most English translations of the Bible. There is no doubt among scholars that Yahweh is God - and Christ is called Yahweh numerous times. Listed below are only a few examples.

In Zechariah 12 the second coming of Christ is described. All the nations are gathered against Israel, and the LORD (Yahweh) states He will defend Jerusalem on that day and destroy the nations that have come up against her. He then says Israel will look upon Him whom they have pierced:

I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and supplication, so they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him, like the bitter weeping over a first born.... In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem... And the land will mourn, every family by itself (Zechariah 12:10-12).

This amazing prophecy predicts that the day will come when Israel will realize they crucified (“piercedâ€) their own Messiah, who is declared to be Yahweh Himself! It then goes on to describe the deep contrition they experience when they realize the enormity of their crime.

Zechariah 14:3-4 also speaks of the second coming of Christ: “Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem.â€

In Zechariah 11:13, the prophecy earlier quoted that concerned Christ being sold for 30 pieces of silver, which were thrown into the temple and used for a potters field; the prophecy states “Then the LORD said to me throw it to the potter than magnificent price that I was valued by them.â€

Jeremiah 23:5-6 speaks also of the second coming of Christ, “Behold, the days are coming†declares the LORD, “ When I shall rise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as King and act wisely, and do justice and righteousness in the land. In His days Judah will be saved and Israel will dwell securely...†This is clearly speaking of Christ. And note what the rest of the sentence says: “And this is His name by which He will be calld, The LORD our righteousness.â€

Read the entire article HERE

 

[Solo]

Those who do not have the Holy Spirit residing in them CANNOT understand the spiritual things of God; for they are foolishness to them. They CANNOT believe that Jesus is God because they are not born of God.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned . 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[seekandlisten]

Those who do not have the Holy Spirit residing in them CANNOT understand the spiritual things of God; for they are foolishness to them. They CANNOT believe that Jesus is God because they are not born of God.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned . 1 Corinthians 2:14

While i agree with your first sentence I have to ask, can we decide who does and who doesn't have the Holy Spirit residing in them?

 

[follower of Christ]

Those who do not have the Holy Spirit residing in them CANNOT understand the spiritual things of God; for they are foolishness to them. They CANNOT believe that Jesus is God because they are not born of God.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned . 1 Corinthians 2:14

While i agree with your first sentence I have to ask, can we decide who does and who doesn't have the Holy Spirit residing in them?

Hmm..
So is it your contention that the Holy Spirit WILL reside in someone who rejects the truth HE inspired?

 

[JudaicChristian]

It is my experience that all those who do not know Jesus Christ as God Almighty are not saved. I did not know Jesus Christ as God until after I was born of God, born again. Others who I have witnessed to did not know that Jesus Christ was God Almighty until after they were born again.

God Almighty is the Savior and beside Him there is no other. Both God Almighty and Jesus Christ are called Savior in the Scriptures. There are not two Saviors according to the Scriptures.

It is not in your expirience, it is your opinion. Yahshua is Yahwah's salvation. Even the name Yahshua means "Life Savior." Interpretation for the name Yahshua: God's Salvation.

 

[seekandlisten]

While i agree with your first sentence I have to ask, can we decide who does and who doesn't have the Holy Spirit residing in them?

Hmm..
So is it your contention that the Holy Spirit WILL reside in someone who rejects the truth HE inspired?

Did I say that?

 

[JudaicChristian]

How do Trinitarians deal with the fact that Yahshua said he was one among many gods? John 10:33. "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

 

[follower of Christ]

Did I say that?

Did you need to ?

 

[follower of Christ]

How do Trinitarians deal with the fact that Yahshua said he was one among many gods? John 10:33. "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Sorry gent but this nonsense was already dealt with. I'll dig up and REpost since you ignored it the first time around

 

[follower of Christ]

How do Trinitarians deal with the fact that Yahshua said he was one among many gods? ]

And folks THIS is why we must know ALL of the scriptures and not pick at one verse to rip out of context.
This is why we cannot pretend to be scholars of Greek and Hebrew when we arent.
The word used for 'gods' is literally the same word used for God Himself.

G2316
????
theos
Thayer Definition:
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3) spoken of the only and true God
3a) refers to the things of God
3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
4a) God’s representative or viceregent
4a1) of magistrates and judges

Now, doesnt Gods word say that there is One God and no other ?

Passages like this are ones that people can twist and mangle into something they werent meant to be when they break out a Strongs and find out, guess what, this word literally means GOD.

But there is a context in the original passage that Jesus quotes in Psalms 82 that overall is about Judges and rulers, not literal deities.

A Psalm of Asaph God stands in the assembly of the mighty; He judges in the midst of the gods. Until when will you judge unjustly, and lift up the faces of the wicked? Selah. Judge the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy; save out of the hand of the wicked. They neither know nor will understand; they walk in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I have said, You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High. But you shall die as men, and fall like one of the rulers. Rise, O God, judge the earth; for You shall inherit in all the nations.
(Psalms 82:1-8 LITV)


Psa 82:6-8
It is hard for men to have honour put upon them, and not to be proud of it. But all the rulers of the earth shall die, and all their honour shall be laid in the dust. God governs the world. There is a righteous God to whom we may go, and on whom we may depend. This also has respect to the kingdom of the Messiah. Considering the state of affairs in the world, we have need to pray that the Lord Jesus would speedily rule over all nations, in truth, righteousness, and peace.
-Matthew Henry

This passage in John 1 is a really good test, in my opinion, as its so easily perverted into being something that it isnt that it can expose false doctrine when someone uses it to say there is more than one God when the CONTEXT from the word of God says nothing of the sort.
There is ONE God.

And we are certain that the Son of God has come, and has given us a clear vision, so that we may see him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. My little children, keep yourselves from false gods.
(1 John 5:20-21 BBE)

 

[seekandlisten]

Did I say that?

Did you need to ?

"....can WE decide who does and who doesn't have the Holy Spirit residing in them?" This is the question I presented.

"So is it your contention that the Holy Spirit WILL reside in someone who rejects the truth HE inspired?"

This is your assumption or twisting of my words.

Jeremiah 23:33-40 (New International Version)

33 "When these people, or a prophet or a priest, ask you, 'What is the oracle [a] of the LORD ?' say to them, 'What oracle? I will forsake you, declares the LORD.' 34 If a prophet or a priest or anyone else claims, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' I will punish that man and his household. 35 This is what each of you keeps on saying to his friend or relative: 'What is the LORD's answer?' or 'What has the LORD spoken?' 36 But you must not mention 'the oracle of the LORD ' again, because every man's own word becomes his oracle and so you distort the words of the living God, the LORD Almighty, our God. 37 This is what you keep saying to a prophet: 'What is the LORD's answer to you?' or 'What has the LORD spoken?' 38 Although you claim, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' this is what the LORD says: You used the words, 'This is the oracle of the LORD,' even though I told you that you must not claim, 'This is the oracle of the LORD.' 39 Therefore, I will surely forget you and cast you out of my presence along with the city I gave to you and your fathers. 40 I will bring upon you everlasting disgrace—everlasting shame that will not be forgotten."


Footnotes:
a.Jeremiah 23:33 Or burden (see Septuagint and Vulgate)
b.Jeremiah 23:33 Hebrew; Septuagint and Vulgate 'You are the burden . (The Hebrew for oracle and burden is the same.)

 

[follower of Christ]

"....can WE decide who does and who doesn't have the Holy Spirit residing in them?" This is the question I presented.

"So is it your contention that the Holy Spirit WILL reside in someone who rejects the truth HE inspired?"

This is your assumption or twisting of my words.

I asked you a question, gent.
you can answer it or ignore it, but the question stands