IS MAN FREE TO CHOOSE?

[Rollo Tamasi]

In John 16 Jesus is speaking SPECIFICALLY to the Apostles.
Also, in Matthew 28:19 Jesus is speaking SPECIFICALLY to the Apostles.
Jesus tells them that they are to go out and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Can YOU baptize a person?
No. Because Jesus spoke to a certain group to whom He gave this authority...
He did NOT give it to us...His disciples.

The Body of Christ is made up of believers.
NOWHERE does it say these believers were chosen by God.

Can you post a verse where it says this?

Actually, once again, we are kings and priests, which allows all disciples of Christ to baptize one another.
Revelation 1:6;

 

[GodsGrace]

Predestined is in the scripture.

The WORD is in the verse....
Not the concept as you understand it.

Please answer:
WHAT is predestined?

Here is the passage again:

Romans 8:28-30
28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am not sure what you are asking. I often use gotquestions.org if I have a question. Usually they have an answer. For example, the other day I looked up the question: What happens to people that do not hear the gospel.
The site gave a list of titles they thought might answer the question. Click on an title that seems to fit and they will give their take on your question. They are good to give scripture references.

I asked: what is the winning lottery number ... just now. They didn't have what I wanted. One title was: What Does the Bible say about Gambling.

You use GotQuestions a lot FF.
I hope you know that they are of your belief system.
Try some other sites too sometimes....it's good to get differing opinons
and then come up with your own answer.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually, once again, we are kings and priests, which allows all disciples of Christ to baptize one another.
Revelation 1:6;

Yes, we are all priests.
I know that we can baptize a person if he is dying....
I don't think we could go around baptizing each other.
It has to be done by someone with that authority,,,as Jesus passed it on,
so it is passed on by the Apostles, and so on.

Also, I don't believe it's necessary to baptize a person in Protestantism in any case...
I know that in Catholicism it's allowed. Under the circumstance I stated above.

 

[brightfame52]

In John 16 Jesus is speaking SPECIFICALLY to the Apostles.
Also, in Matthew 28:19 Jesus is speaking SPECIFICALLY to the Apostles.
Jesus tells them that they are to go out and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Can YOU baptize a person?
No. Because Jesus spoke to a certain group to whom He gave this authority...
He did NOT give it to us...His disciples.

The Body of Christ is made up of believers.
NOWHERE does it say these believers were chosen by God.

Can you post a verse where it says this?

You dont believe the Apostles are part of the Body of Christ ? 1 Cor 12:12-31

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 and those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25 that there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

God chose all the members of His Body as One which He is Head. The Apostles had more authority, for they are ranked first, however all the lesser servants are just as needed for His Body. The promises the Apostles were given, were not theirs exclusively, but to the entire body. The Spirit promised to the Apostles was promised to the entire body the spiritual seed of Christ.

 

[WIP]

Calvinism, like Islam, believes God is a fatalist. As such, Calvinism holds man is determined to heaven or hell, independent of any choice man makes to believe, have faith and love. As God decreed, so his destiny was fixed, regardless of whether he lived well or badly. In other words, if God created you to be pulpwood to take pleasure in seeing destroyed (yes, Calvin actually taught that!), you are going to burn regardless of how much you love God.

With this kind of teaching, I would find it difficult to near impossible to feel my life had meaning unless I believed everyone was destined for salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

I will try to improve on that point.

Thanks! Not being called an arminan will be very nice for me since I don't know what it means.

Well, you occasionally flood the post with too many verses. Max. of three. I will take arminian idea under advisement as I am not sure how that would work out as the context of the discourse could affect things.

Three is good for the number of verses I'll post. I usually don't post even that many...
In any case, pick just one verse and explain that one...
take your pick.

I like talking a verse through to see how we understand it in different ways.

Well, max of 3 per post. YOU can list more, but that is max I would try to explain.

OK.

Well, doctrine has consequences. I say, for example, God controls the purpose of every atom through out all time which is a way of saying God controls everything. What is the consequences of this believe? Can it be tested? Is there scripture to support the idea? For example, if God determines all things you could say "that suggests He planned for my 5 year old to be hit by a bus". I would either agree or backtrack.
Aside: We always come to blows when you say that means Gods caused sin and I say that God allows sin (sigh). God determined sin would exist and God uses it for good, but He does not cause it. (but I digress)

Instead it would be a good idea to discuss this. Maybe in a different thread.
Sproul mumbled through this in one of his Q & A times. If I could find it fast, I'll post it.
My understanding is that, through predestination, God predestined everything...even if a
person gets murdered or someone sins.

I say that if 'libertarian free will' exists (the power to do something God does not determine) and that GOD says I will do "A" or "B" depending on what you do, then I control whether GOD does "A" or "B" ... or my belief in 'libertarian free will' has a flaw or something needs explanation.

I don't understand how you come to this conclusion.
God does not do A or B depending on what you do....
You do not control what God does....
You do what you want and freely choose to do.
The only part God plays in this is that He gave you free will
and He KNOWS what you will decide.

And please stop with the statements of vagueness and the lack of definition
when speaking of free will. Ask one of your kids (if you have them) what free will is
and he'll tell you.

DUDE (said in fun way) ... I've asked for your definition umpteen times ... sigh
Free Will (my definition) .... we always do what we desire more at the time (now, our desires can change .... at time of salvation I claim the Spirit regenerates me causing my desires to change ... to overcome the depravity and cause me to believe). The logical conclusion is that I believe the Regeneration logic precedes Faith; that God causes us to desire to believe salvificly.

Dude is fine with me....as long as you know I'm a girl. (Dudess?).
Your definition of free will: It lacks definition and it's obtuse!
No, really.
What does "we do what we desire most at the time" mean?
You then state that the Holy Spirit causes your desires to change...
well - EVERY Christian believes this.
So what is the difference as you understand it?
Can it be that Calvin doesn't explain free will the way you do?
Maybe the fact that YOU change the definition is what's causing the communication
problem?

Please let's forget about regeneration preceding faith right now since it's a whole different topic.

Here's the CALVINIST understanding of compatible free will.
I say CALVINIST...NOT what You might believe to be the correct interpretation.

Calvin states "man, being devoid of all uprightness, immediately takes occasion from the fact to indulge in sloth,
and having no ability in himself for the study of righteousness, treats the whole subject [of free will] as if he had no concern in it.
On the other hand, man cannot arrogate anything, however minute, to himself, without robbing God of His honor".

This is mentioned many times by Calvin....how giving man the freedom man had in the Garden,,,will somehow rob God of His honor.

So we have to find a way to make man feel he has free will and this has to be compatible with determinism.
Thus, we have compatible free will.

If God determines everything....HOW is man free?
He really is not.
However, God imbues the person with the will to want what God wants in that circumstance.
This is using force.
If I force you to choose A....is that a free choice? No, of course not.

This goes beyond what every Christian believes...that the old has passed away and all things are new.

And does God then fail....
when a born again person kills someone....
did God FAIL in making that person desire to kill someone?

BTW,,, The quote is from The Institutes, Book Two, Chapter Two, Paragraph 1

Well, I don't want to be on defense all the time. A comparison of ideas highlights the conversation. If your ideas do not sync up with Arminians, then say so and I will confront those ideas. My ideas are consistent with Reform theology, your seem to be of a unique, private interpretation which gives you an advantage as you have an idea where I am coming from, and I have to guess what you believe.

I don't THINK your ideas are consistent with reformed theology...but just speak your belief and we'll take it from there.
And I don't have a unique, private interpretation of scripture...I'm just a boring Christian, if a Christian could be boring....
I'm not Word of Faith
I'm not of the Grace Only movement
I don't believe we can be saved forever unless we abide in Jesus forever
I believe in heaven and hell and an evil entity that is real
I think that's it.

Well, I wouldn't say all 5 points depend on free will ('free will' yet to be defined by you so I am just spitting into the wind when I comment) ...one can be a 4 or 3 pt Calvinist. One can believe in total depravity and the propose prevenient grave as the solution.

Here's how the absence of free will applies to the 5 points of calvinism:

As stated above from the Institutes....
Man has lost free will
He is totally depraved
TOTAL DEPRAVITY

Since he is so depraved, he cannot lift himself up to reply to God...
So God has to pick those that will be saved. God has to give them the strength to respond.
And what yardstick does God use to decide who will be saved?
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION

Since God chooses those that will be saved (the elect as they are called)
then, naturally, Jesus died only for those that will be saved. Otherwise it makes no sense.
LIMITED ATONEMENT

If God picks a man for salvation, and God determines everything, how could that man possibly
say no to God?
IRRESISTABLE GRACE

And, finally, if God picks the person, that person will be saved forever because God coerces that person
into always making the right choices and the person works his whole life as proof that he is saved.
PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS

Simplistic, but understandable

This is what Calvinism teaches.
This is why the absence of free will is taught.
Having free will would change everything...all the 5 points.
What do you not agree with??
We could start different threads maybe...

Again, I stated that the meaning of the thread IS MAN FREE TO CHOOSE was ambiguous ... so discussion would be ambiguous. So, IMO, not much sense going forward.

Oh my.
At least answer this one post before quitting....

 

[GodsGrace]

With this kind of teaching, I would find it difficult to near impossible to feel hopeful unless I believed everyone was destined for salvation.

Well WIP,,,this is what calvinism teaches.
The problem is that God does not choose everyone for heaven, in that belief system.
God picks some,,,and leaves the rest for hell.
But you could be hopeful,,,
because it is YOU that decides if you want to be saved or not.

 

[Fastfredy0]

“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.” (Ibid, 3:21.6)

Well, you surprised me. You were right IMO. Calvin did say God takes pleasure in the destruction of reprobates.
Thanks for looking that up. Well done.
I don't agree with Calvin. I imagine Reformed people do not either.

Let's see, I looked up two sites that I know support Calvinism ..
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/gods-mercy-toward-wicked/ ... says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked."

https://www.puritanboard.com/thread...icked-but-how-about-penal-satisfaction.83665/ ... says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked"

Interesting ... So Calvin got it wrong, two current Calvinist websites got it right IMO. Just goes to prove that Calvin didn't always teach Calvinism. Of course, it is possible that Calvin change his mind. To accurately attack the doctrines of Calvinism you should go to either the WCF or the 1689 Baptist confession of Faith as they, not Calvin, are probably the most authoritative source of the doctrines of Calvinism (ironically)

Aside: I prefer the Baptist confession as I'm not one for baptism of babies

 

[WIP]

because it is YOU that decides if you want to be saved or not.

I'm assuming this too is a Calvinist doctrine?

 

[jasonc]

Well WIP,,,this is what calvinism teaches.
The problem is that God does not choose everyone for heaven, in that belief system.
God picks some,,,and leaves the rest for hell.
But you could be hopeful,,,
because it is YOU that decides if you want to be saved or not.

i assure you in your type of theology .I have worried he'll was close despite being saved.

I attended a few churches where he'll was taught that didn't teach eternal security and also did an alter call each service .

it works both ways because I have been there .I can't shake this sin,here that repent and back at that and doubt my trust .

 

[jasonc]

Well, you surprised me. You were right IMO. Calvin did say God takes pleasure in the destruction of reprobates.
Thanks for looking that up. Well done.
I don't agree with Calvin. I imagine Reformed people do not either.

Let's see, I looked up two sites that I know support Calvinism ..
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/gods-mercy-toward-wicked/ ... says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked."

https://www.puritanboard.com/thread...icked-but-how-about-penal-satisfaction.83665/ ... says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked"

Interesting ... So Calvin got it wrong, two current Calvinist websites got it right IMO. Just goes to prove that Calvin didn't always teach Calvinism. Of course, it is possible that Calvin change his mind. To accurately attack the doctrines of Calvinism you should go to either the WCF or the 1689 Baptist confession of Faith as they, not Calvin, are probably the most authoritative source of the doctrines of Calvinism (ironically)

Aside: I prefer the Baptist confession as I'm not one for baptism of babies

I don't see the wcf as the bible ,in fact says its not ,but like this sites terms of service .
want to be a member ,here is what we believe and the dos and don't .the wcf mentions church heirachy and also what is to be done to correct members should they sin .

people post here and hate creeds and sof and agree to the terms of service to post here .

 

[GodsGrace]

You dont believe the Apostles are part of the Body of Christ ? 1 Cor 12:12-31



God chose all the members of His Body as One which He is Head. The Apostles had more authority, for they are ranked first, however all the lesser servants are just as needed for His Body. The promises the Apostles were given, were not theirs exclusively, but to the entire body. The Spirit promised to the Apostles was promised to the entire body the spiritual seed of Christ.

Brightfame...
I stated in my reply to you that EVERY BELIEVER is a member of the Body of Christ.
You don't need to post verses regarding this as I agree, of course.
We all know what the Body of Christ is.

But YOU cannot take a verse...
"You didn't choose Me, but I chose you"....
and apply it to the calvinist doctrine you adhere to.
IT DOES NOT APPLY.
You cannot use this verse for support of your belief system.

Jesus was not speaking in general to all persons...but to the APOSTLES ONLY.
Jesus CHOSE THE APOSTLES.

You'd have to find some other verses in the N.T. that state plainly that God chooses who
will be saved by Him and passes over the others.

If you can't find those verses, then perhaps you're following the teachings of a man?
John Calvin
John Macarthur
John Piper
R.C. Sproul
??

Read the bible on your own instead and learn the truth...
God is a God that loves His creation and desires all to be saved.
1 Timothy 2:3-6
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6who gave Himself as a ransom for all,

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm assuming this too is a Calvinist doctrine?

NO!
This is a Christian doctrine.
John 3:16
THAT WHOSOEVER BELEIVES SHALL NOT PERISH....

If we believe with our heart in Jesus and are His disiple,
we will be saved.

This is what I meant when I said that WE can choose if we want
to be saved or not. God leaves it up to us after calling us...
as He calls everyone.
As Paul said...God wishes that all men be saved.
But not all men WANT to be saved....
and thus the road is narrow .
But those that want to be saved, can be saved.

Calvinism teaches that God decides who will be saved
and who will not.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, you surprised me. You were right IMO. Calvin did say God takes pleasure in the destruction of reprobates.
Thanks for looking that up. Well done.
I don't agree with Calvin. I imagine Reformed people do not either.

Let's see, I looked up two sites that I know support Calvinism ..
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/gods-mercy-toward-wicked/ ... says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked."

https://www.puritanboard.com/thread...icked-but-how-about-penal-satisfaction.83665/ ... says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked"

Interesting ... So Calvin got it wrong, two current Calvinist websites got it right IMO. Just goes to prove that Calvin didn't always teach Calvinism. Of course, it is possible that Calvin change his mind. To accurately attack the doctrines of Calvinism you should go to either the WCF or the 1689 Baptist confession of Faith as they, not Calvin, are probably the most authoritative source of the doctrines of Calvinism (ironically)

Aside: I prefer the Baptist confession as I'm not one for baptism of babies

Hey...
I've quoted Calvin to you many times and never got a compliment !!

But, think of this:
Maybe the WCF does agree with Mr. Calvin,,,
maybe they just used different wording to make the teaching more palatable....

For instance,,,how about posting the exact wording of the WCF or the Baptist one you prefer to
see what the difference is? ---- ON HOW A PERSON GETS TO GO TO HEAVEN --
OR, HOW GOD PICKS THE PERSON....

 

[jasonc]

no one reads without a bias .

I was raised so to speak in a faith to believe that woman could preach and hold any office despite the word must be a man of one wife

I,was raised to believe that it was acceptable to run in church worship ,shout,dance etc .black services are never quiet.

it was ok to speak in my prayer language in church without interpretation despite Paul saying otherwise .

yet not so now.

 

[for_his_glory]

Is this really about what Calvinism, Protestants, Catholics, Luther etc. etc. teach as the last time I looked this is a Christian Forum of Biblical doctrines in what Christ has already taught and gave the commission to the Disciples first to go out to teach every nation and make more disciples of Christ as even now we are to take the Gospel message to all the world baptizing others with the baptism of Christ for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

We all have the same power and authority through God's grace as He not only gave the commission to the Disciples, but to all as being one body that is in Christ and He as the head of the body. It's not our own power and authority, but that of Christ power and authority working through us as He equips us to be His messengers to others.

The Bible reveals that regarding free-will and predestination it is not one or the other, but rather both. That is, the Bible teaches both the free-will of man and God's election or predestination. Unfortunately the teachings and creeds of men have misdefined these Biblical concepts so that the impression is left that one cannot have both, but only one or the other. We must accept the whole counsel of God on this subject instead of the wisdom of men (Gal. 1:6-10; 1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

Some do not understand the above passages on predestination. They think that if a person is not of those predestinated, he is just out of luck, is eternally damned, and there is nothing he can do about it. However, it is a particular group or class of people that God chose before the foundation of the world and not individuals. It is up to us to be part of that class of those "in Him" if we want to be of the chosen.​

 

[Walpole]

Well, you surprised me. You were right IMO. Calvin did say God takes pleasure in the destruction of reprobates.
Thanks for looking that up. Well done.
I don't agree with Calvin. I imagine Reformed people do not either.

Let's see, I looked up two sites that I know support Calvinism ..
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/gods-mercy-toward-wicked/ ... says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked."

https://www.puritanboard.com/thread...icked-but-how-about-penal-satisfaction.83665/ ... says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked"

Interesting ... So Calvin got it wrong, two current Calvinist websites got it right IMO. Just goes to prove that Calvin didn't always teach Calvinism. Of course, it is possible that Calvin change his mind. To accurately attack the doctrines of Calvinism you should go to either the WCF or the 1689 Baptist confession of Faith as they, not Calvin, are probably the most authoritative source of the doctrines of Calvinism (ironically)

Aside: I prefer the Baptist confession as I'm not one for baptism of babies

"...Calvin didn't always teach Calvinism."

FYI, Calvinism = the doctrines and teachings of John Calvin


The reality is the Gospel of Calvinism is one of hatred. Before the foundation of the world he decided to elect in love this one, and he will damn and hate this other one. He elects/loves and damns/hates unconditionally. Salvation thus becomes the ultimate divine Power Ball, where God arbitrarily elects some while creating others solely for the purpose of destroying (and taking pleasure in that). This is why the likes of Westboro Baptists are the end result of Calvinism. They tell it like it is, no sugar coating it. "God hates you ________ (fill in the blank). He hated you from the foundation of the world!"

This is the complete antithesis to the God of Christianity, who loves man so much He become one. This God offers salvation to ALL through Jesus Christ.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I don't understand how you come to this conclusion.
God does not do A or B depending on what you do....
You do not control what God does....
You do what you want and freely choose to do.
The only part God plays in this is that He gave you free will
and He KNOWS what you will decide.

We may be at an impasse then.
I say the arminian definition of 'free will' (I use that because you won't give your definition)
let's me chose to believe (A) or not believe (B) and God has no control of that
God say he will send me to heaven if I choose (A) or hell if I choose (B).
Since God doesn't control what I do, and I have his rule book saying what he will do ... I can use his rule book to control him... anyways, if you don't follow, so be it. Maybe its me, we both think it's the other person that is the comprehension issue.

And please stop with the statements of vagueness and the lack of definition
when speaking of free will. Ask one of your kids (if you have them) what free will is
and he'll tell you.

ANother impasse, if you won't define what you mean then there's no where to go.

Dude is fine with me....as long as you know I'm a girl. (Dudess?).

Agreed.

Maybe the fact that YOU change the definition is what's causing the communication
problem?

My definition has "free will" has been unchanging. I use Augustine's definition.
"I always do what I desire most at the time" ... my desires could change and external forces can cause me desires to change. Everyone naturally desire (wills) to Believe Salvifically unless God changes their desire which is does exclusively for those He chooses. Everyone He chooses will desire (will) to believe.

Calvin states "man, being devoid of all uprightness, immediately takes occasion from the fact to indulge in sloth,
and having no ability in himself for the study of righteousness, treats the whole subject [of free will] as if he had no concern in it.
On the other hand, man cannot arrogate anything, however minute, to himself, without robbing God of His honor".

I agree. Minor exception: I wouldn't save it robs God of His honor. Any part of salvation in which we are the only cause does not bring honor to God. This is logical as God can't take credit for something He had not part of.

If God determines everything....HOW is man free?
He really is not.
However, God imbues the person with the will to want what God wants in that circumstance.
This is using force.
If I force you to choose A....is that a free choice? No, of course not.

You make a good point. Let me try this from my point of view and my definition of "free" which is not the same as yours (though you never state it )
1) Man is not free to determine his future in any way, God does that (James 4:15)
2) I am free at any current moment in time to do whatever I desire most. (well, within realm of possibility)
So, both God and I get what we want. God gets what he wants (predestines) by controlling my desire. I get what I want as I always do what I desire most at the time.

If I force you to choose A....is that a free choice? No, of course not.

From your definition of FREE CHOICE, I agree.

And does God then fail....
when a born again person kills someone....
did God FAIL in making that person desire to kill someone?

Well, we are getting to the issue of evil. Let's not go there... this post is long enough.

BTW,,, The quote is from The Institutes, Book Two, Chapter Two, Paragraph 1

Careful, you keep reading the institutes and you may come over to "the dark side".

I don't THINK your ideas are consistent with reformed theology

Shh, I might lose my 'club membership'. Maybe I should start my own denomination. (J/K)
I don't agree, by the way. Occasionally, I don't think you understand some of the finer points .... we will agree to disagree.

I'm just a boring Christian,

Hardly boring ... very thoughtful IMO.

Here's how the absence of free will applies to the 5 points of calvinism:

As stated above from the Institutes....
Man has lost free will
He is totally depraved
TOTAL DEPRAVITY

Since he is so depraved, he cannot lift himself up to reply to God...
So God has to pick those that will be saved. God has to give them the strength to respond.
And what yardstick does God use to decide who will be saved?
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION

Since God chooses those that will be saved (the elect as they are called)
then, naturally, Jesus died only for those that will be saved. Otherwise it makes no sense.
LIMITED ATONEMENT

If God picks a man for salvation, and God determines everything, how could that man possibly
say no to God?
IRRESISTABLE GRACE

Well stated. Put that way, I guess you're right. (I must be getting tired... I am not use to saying "you're right". Must be God ALLOWING me to do something wrong.

Oh my.
At least answer this one post before quitting....

You're welcome. *insert applause here*
Aside: too tired to proof read

 

[Fastfredy0]

I'm assuming this too is a Calvinist doctrine?

Here is the source of current Reform (Calvinism) doctrine.
1689 Baptist Confession of Faith ... http://vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html
It is very well organized. It is very similar to the Westminster Confession of Faith which was the blueprint of the Baptist Confession.
1689 Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith are the authorities of Calvinism, not Calvin ...though obviously Calvin and the two confessions don't disagree much.

We debate the differences as that is more entertaining. The two confessions probably are in sync with 95% of what you believe.