Is man not really capable of seeking God?

[Fastfredy0]

Whats your point ? Men naturally dont seek after God Rom 3:11

I agree that Men naturally dont seek after God Rom 3:11. My point was to ask you if anyone besides yourself had exegeted the verse. I was asking for a 'recap' of past posts.
I guess my question wasn't specific as I knew you had exegeted the verse. My bad.

Oh, I see JLB exegeted Roman 3:11 after my post. Well, I give JLB a 'high five' to at least addressing your verse.

 

[PeterJens]

Man is also spiritually dead to God , dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5 alienated from God Eph 4:18


Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Man must be born again before he can spiritually act towards God. The natural man is in total inability towards God. Doesnt seek God nor understand God Rom 3:11

I think you are confusing communion with God with a conversation with God.
A sinner can meet the Lord and He speak to them. A sinner can choose to repent or walk away.
Nineveh were not believers or born again. Jonah came and preached to them and they repented and sought favour and mercy from God for their sins.

In your theology they would neither have understood their guilt or responded to it.
Cain was spoken to by God about Ables blood speaking to Him. Adam after the fall was spoken to by God.

If I say children go their own way, I am not lying, but they do respect their parents, knowing they are on an elastic band which could break but can be stretched. You could say children will always be adventurous and push the limits, but that does not mean they are lost to their parents. Once they have established their identities separate from the family, they will return, and start to understand the tensions that make life work.

The story of the prodigal son is no different. The phrase man is lost, describes him better than they never seek God. Man is not sure who God is or how He works, so what is there to seek? Until the world has failed people, they rarely look up, unless they have met people of the Kingdom. There is something dynamic about repentance and grace, that is the power of life.

Now if this power speaks to non-believers, then have an ability towards God and desire to know Him, but are unaware of this in the darkness.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

I believe that man was always saved by faith...
even before there was a bible put together.
I also believe we are supposed to obey God...
how could it be otherwise?

So, yes, I don't think the rules were different.
Sometimes, in the O.T., God said that He didn't even want
sacrifices, but it spoke many times of our heart and how it needs
to be renewed.

Sacrifices in the future age make no sense...I agree.
And JUST "BELIEVING" in the sense that many understand this word
...is just not enough.

So, now it sounds like you do not agree with this dispensationalism.
Man certainly does come up with many different ideas!

I agree I am not a dispensationalist, but there is a profound difference between walking in the Kingdom and walking as a Jew. Jesus described that His words to the apostles had made them clean. We do not think about concepts have power in their own right, but I think this is what Jesus is declaring.

Sometimes I put in my mind the development and growth of those I meet. It helps me to see how what appears defined in the moment has been built over many years, and honed, but it appears like a skill, or something innate.
Trump is a classic example of a fixed narcistic train of continuous thought, aimed to create certain impressions on others, irrespective of the truth or actual life outcomes for others. It is fake and damaging because it appears to be truthful and honest, but is lying and vain, and nothing said today can be relied upon tomorrow.

In Christ we are built upon a rock of consistent true behaviour, which others can rely upon, faithful and true.
This is such a blessing, in the world of shifting emotions and care for others. When you think of folk growing up and developing in certain situations, you see the product of those situations and how it molds them.

You can then make some very specific predictions as to what will move certain individuals and what will not.
In Jesus we know we can rely on His every word and His intention. It is profound and also scary, if we chose to walk the other way. But this reliability provides a real path and light in the darkness, when all others fail.

God bless you

 

[brightfame52]

Why would a regenerated man need evangelization?

Evangelize means trying to convince someone about becoming Christian...
Why would one do this for someone already Chrisitain.

Definition of evangelize​

transitive verb
1: to preach the gospel to
2: to convert to Christianity


The unregenerated man does not understand spiritual things.
This means someone that is not born again...

The question is:
HOW DOES ONE BECOME BORN AGAIN....

By seeking God:
JESUS said: SEEK AND YOU WILL FIND...KNOCK AND IT WILL BE OPENED
Matthew 7:7


Paul stated that WE MUST DRAW NEAR TO GOD.
Hebrews 11:6

To hear the Gospel of their Salvation and to be taught the things of God.

 

[brightfame52]

This:


John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


God loved the WORLD...ALL OF HIS CREATION
God offered His only begotten Son
WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish
but will have everlasting life.

Quite a difference from what you believe and is not found in the bible:
Book 3 Chapter 21 Paragraph 5
Institutes of the Christian Religion

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.

I dont get it. Man naturally still doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11. Is Rom 3:11 found in the scripture ?

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree I am not a dispensationalist, but there is a profound difference between walking in the Kingdom and walking as a Jew. Jesus described that His words to the apostles had made them clean. We do not think about concepts have power in their own right, but I think this is what Jesus is declaring.

Sometimes I put in my mind the development and growth of those I meet. It helps me to see how what appears defined in the moment has been built over many years, and honed, but it appears like a skill, or something innate.
Trump is a classic example of a fixed narcistic train of continuous thought, aimed to create certain impressions on others, irrespective of the truth or actual life outcomes for others. It is fake and damaging because it appears to be truthful and honest, but is lying and vain, and nothing said today can be relied upon tomorrow.

In Christ we are built upon a rock of consistent true behaviour, which others can rely upon, faithful and true.
This is such a blessing, in the world of shifting emotions and care for others. When you think of folk growing up and developing in certain situations, you see the product of those situations and how it molds them.

You can then make some very specific predictions as to what will move certain individuals and what will not.
In Jesus we know we can rely on His every word and His intention. It is profound and also scary, if we chose to walk the other way. But this reliability provides a real path and light in the darkness, when all others fail.

God bless you

Amen to all.
And I especially like this sentence of yours: (highlighted above)

in the world of shifting emotions and care for others. When you think of folk growing up and developing in certain situations, you see the product of those situations and how it molds them.

I'm sure most of us here can say that as we look back on our lives, we see God working in us and this molding that we end up with...and also the REASONS why some situations might have occured --- maybe to prepare for something for instance. Although
at the time they were unpleasant...it is experience we could use now for the betterment of a current situation.

 

[GodsGrace]

To hear the Gospel of their Salvation and to be taught the things of God.

I thought God kept one saved through the Perseverance of the Saints....?
The gospel is just the good news that we can be saved for eternity through the death of Jesus....
Who needs the gospel when it's God that decides who will be saved and who will be damned?
Why do we need to be taught anything when it's God that keeps us through perseverance of the saints?
As usual...calvinism makes no sense.

Predestination to election:


By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.

3/21/5 The Institutes



Perseverance of the Saints:

The Westminster Confession of Faith states,

"They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace: but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.
"This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merits and intercession of Jesus Christ, the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth, also, the certainty and infallibility thereof." (Chap. XIX, Sect. 1)

and:

The doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints is based upon the false assumption that the elect sinner is clothed in the personal righteousness of Jesus Christ. Therefore, when God looks at him, He does not see the sins of the elect one, rather He sees the perfection of Jesus. Thus, one does not have to be concerned with doing righteousness if he is one whom God has elected to save.

The Bible clearly states that one who is considered righteous by heaven is one who practices righteousness (1 John 3:7), not the one who has had the personal righteousness of Jesus imputed to him. A sinner becomes righteous by pardon made possible by the atoning death of Jesus, not by imputation of His perfect life. (Matt. 26:28; Rom. 5:8-9)

source: https://www.padfield.com/2005/perseverance-saints.html

 

[GodsGrace]

I dont get it. Man naturally still doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11. Is Rom 3:11 found in the scripture ?

You should start getting it brightfame because what you know is not correct.

THIS is correct:


John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


God loved the WORLD...ALL OF HIS CREATION
God offered His only begotten Son
WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish
but will have everlasting life.

Quite a difference from what you believe and is not found in the bible:
Book 3 Chapter 21 Paragraph 5
Institutes of the Christian Religion

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.

 

[brightfame52]

I thought God kept one saved through the Perseverance of the Saints....?
The gospel is just the good news that we can be saved for eternity through the death of Jesus....
Who needs the gospel when it's God that decides who will be saved and who will be damned?
Why do we need to be taught anything when it's God that keeps us through perseverance of the saints?
As usual...calvinism makes no sense.

Predestination to election:


By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.

3/21/5 The Institutes



Perseverance of the Saints:

The Westminster Confession of Faith states,



and:

The doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints is based upon the false assumption that the elect sinner is clothed in the personal righteousness of Jesus Christ. Therefore, when God looks at him, He does not see the sins of the elect one, rather He sees the perfection of Jesus. Thus, one does not have to be concerned with doing righteousness if he is one whom God has elected to save.

The Bible clearly states that one who is considered righteous by heaven is one who practices righteousness (1 John 3:7), not the one who has had the personal righteousness of Jesus imputed to him. A sinner becomes righteous by pardon made possible by the atoning death of Jesus, not by imputation of His perfect life. (Matt. 26:28; Rom. 5:8-9)

source: https://www.padfield.com/2005/perseverance-saints.html

Your comment doesnt make sense to me. God sends the regenerate the Gospel so they can hear the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[brightfame52]

You should start getting it brightfame because what you know is not correct.

THIS is correct:


John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


God loved the WORLD...ALL OF HIS CREATION
God offered His only begotten Son
WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish
but will have everlasting life.

Quite a difference from what you believe and is not found in the bible:
Book 3 Chapter 21 Paragraph 5
Institutes of the Christian Religion

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.

So Rom 3:11 isnt correct ?

 

[brightfame52]

I think you are confusing communion with God with a conversation with God.
A sinner can meet the Lord and He speak to them. A sinner can choose to repent or walk away.
Nineveh were not believers or born again. Jonah came and preached to them and they repented and sought favour and mercy from God for their sins.

In your theology they would neither have understood their guilt or responded to it.
Cain was spoken to by God about Ables blood speaking to Him. Adam after the fall was spoken to by God.

If I say children go their own way, I am not lying, but they do respect their parents, knowing they are on an elastic band which could break but can be stretched. You could say children will always be adventurous and push the limits, but that does not mean they are lost to their parents. Once they have established their identities separate from the family, they will return, and start to understand the tensions that make life work.

The story of the prodigal son is no different. The phrase man is lost, describes him better than they never seek God. Man is not sure who God is or how He works, so what is there to seek? Until the world has failed people, they rarely look up, unless they have met people of the Kingdom. There is something dynamic about repentance and grace, that is the power of life.

Now if this power speaks to non-believers, then have an ability towards God and desire to know Him, but are unaware of this in the darkness.

God bless you

No confusion at all, man naturally doesnt seek after God. Rom 3:11, neither understands God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your comment doesnt make sense to me. God sends the regenerate the Gospel so they can hear the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Brightfame....
My post makes a lot of sense.

Listen....
IF GOD picks who will be saved and who will be damned...
it doesn't matter if they ever hear the gospel or not.
It just isn't important if GOD does all the choosing.

What the N.T. teaches is that God reaches out to all men...
He reveals Himself to all men....Read Romans 1:19-20 carefully and you'll
see that from the beginning of time God has revealed Himself to man...
those that choose to say Yes to His call are saved....
those who say No to his call will be without excuse because they were given a chance to
choose to serve God but they replied with a No.
Romans 1:18-20
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

The reason we need to offer the gospel to others is so that they may have the oppportunity to come to serve God
and choose to say Yes to Him.

Abraham said YES.
Moses said YES.
Mary said YES.

WE must also reply to God's call with a Yes.

Here is the very verse that you posted above:

Ephesians 1:13
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

It states that
1. AFTER LISTENING to the message of truth (salvation through Jesus)
2. and THEN having also believed (the person heard the gospel and then believed)
3. We are sealed in the Holy Spirit

In Ephesians 1:11 you'll find that Paul is speaking about predestination.
He states that we have been predestined to obtain an inheritance....
Verse 5 also speaks of predestination saying that God predestined us to adoption as sons THROUGH JESUS Christ...
God chose us IN HIM (Jesus) before the foundation of the world...
that we should be holy and blameless before God.

What is predestined is not WHO is saved....
but HOW we are saved:
We were predestined by God to be saved IN JESUS CHRIST (those that choose Him)
and that we would be ADOPTED AS SONS THROUGH JESUS
so that we could be HOLY AND BLAMELESS before God.

This is HOW we are saved not WHO is saved as the reformed church teaches.

God knew man would fail in the Garden and yet God wanted to create man....
so God made a way of escape from the beginning of time....
He predestined HOW we would be saved....
Salvation is open to all that would choose to be saved and served God.

Again...compare the above good news to what calvinism teaches, which is not biblical:


John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


God loved the WORLD...ALL OF HIS CREATION
God offered His only begotten Son
WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish
but will have everlasting life.

Quite a difference from what you believe and is not found in the bible:
Book 3 Chapter 21 Paragraph 5
Institutes of the Christian Religion

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.

 

[GodsGrace]

So Rom 3:11 isnt correct ?

It's not that it isn't correct....
What I've been trying to say is that there can be no conflict in the bible.

Romans 3:11 is not speaking about every man that ever lived.
Paul is referring back to Psalms and is speaking about the FOOLISH man and what
he believes in his heart....he's speaking about the Jews that did not accept God and
did not seek Him.

I'm going to link something on youtube that will explain it really well...

I found this to be very good...there's other stuff there too.
I hope you listen to it for a complete explanation of Romans 3:11 in context.

 

[JLB]

So Rom 3:11 isnt correct ?

Can you see Paul has quoted from the Old Testament?

Can we discuss the context of Psalm 14, the scripture Paul quoted from.


When the scripture in Romans 3:11 or Psalm 14 says there is no one who does good, does that include the righteous who are on the earth?

Do you believe David or Moses or Abraham or Jeremiah or Enoch or Job or Noah were righteous; we’re people who sought God and did what was good?


The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call on the LORD?
There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous.
Psalm 14:1-5




Does Romans 3:11 include everyone on earth today?





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Brightfame....
My post makes a lot of sense.

Listen....
IF GOD picks who will be saved and who will be damned...
it doesn't matter if they ever hear the gospel or not.
It just isn't important if GOD does all the choosing.

What the N.T. teaches is that God reaches out to all men...
He reveals Himself to all men....Read Romans 1:19-20 carefully and you'll
see that from the beginning of time God has revealed Himself to man...
those that choose to say Yes to His call are saved....
those who say No to his call will be without excuse because they were given a chance to
choose to serve God but they replied with a No.
Romans 1:18-20
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

The reason we need to offer the gospel to others is so that they may have the oppportunity to come to serve God
and choose to say Yes to Him.

Abraham said YES.
Moses said YES.
Mary said YES.

WE must also reply to God's call with a Yes.

Here is the very verse that you posted above:

Ephesians 1:13
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

It states that
1. AFTER LISTENING to the message of truth (salvation through Jesus)
2. and THEN having also believed (the person heard the gospel and then believed)
3. We are sealed in the Holy Spirit

In Ephesians 1:11 you'll find that Paul is speaking about predestination.
He states that we have been predestined to obtain an inheritance....
Verse 5 also speaks of predestination saying that God predestined us to adoption as sons THROUGH JESUS Christ...
God chose us IN HIM (Jesus) before the foundation of the world...
that we should be holy and blameless before God.

What is predestined is not WHO is saved....
but HOW we are saved:
We were predestined by God to be saved IN JESUS CHRIST (those that choose Him)
and that we would be ADOPTED AS SONS THROUGH JESUS
so that we could be HOLY AND BLAMELESS before God.

This is HOW we are saved not WHO is saved as the reformed church teaches.

God knew man would fail in the Garden and yet God wanted to create man....
so God made a way of escape from the beginning of time....
He predestined HOW we would be saved....
Salvation is open to all that would choose to be saved and served God.

Again...compare the above good news to what calvinism teaches, which is not biblical:


John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


God loved the WORLD...ALL OF HIS CREATION
God offered His only begotten Son
WHOEVER believes in Him will not perish
but will have everlasting life.

Quite a difference from what you believe and is not found in the bible:
Book 3 Chapter 21 Paragraph 5
Institutes of the Christian Religion

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.

It makes no sense in the respect that nothing is said to reverse the fact that man by nature doesnt seek after God. Nothing has changed.

 

[brightfame52]

It's not that it isn't correct....
What I've been trying to say is that there can be no conflict in the bible.

Romans 3:11 is not speaking about every man that ever lived.
Paul is referring back to Psalms and is speaking about the FOOLISH man and what
he believes in his heart....he's speaking about the Jews that did not accept God and
did not seek Him.

I'm going to link something on youtube that will explain it really well...

I found this to be very good...there's other stuff there too.
I hope you listen to it for a complete explanation of Romans 3:11 in context.

There isnt any conflict in the scripture. Nothing conflicts with Rom 3:11 that I see.

 

[brightfame52]

Can you see Paul has quoted from the Old Testament?

Can we discuss the context of Psalm 14, the scripture Paul quoted from.


When the scripture in Romans 3:11 or Psalm 14 says there is no one who does good, does that include the righteous who are on the earth?

Do you believe David or Moses or Abraham or Jeremiah or Enoch or Job or Noah were righteous; we’re people who sought God and did what was good?


The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call on the LORD?
There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous.
Psalm 14:1-5




Does Romans 3:11 include everyone on earth today?





JLB

I know Paul quoted from the OT. Know this about the OT 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[GodsGrace]

There isnt any conflict in the scripture. Nothing conflicts with Rom 3:11 that I see.

Apparently there is a big conflict that you do not see.

If Romans 3:11 is correct, then the conflict is oustandingly big because the following
verses are in the same bible that quotes Romans 3:11 -
And Romans 3:11 is one...following are many.

The following state that we CAN and are REQUIRED to seek God.
This conflicts with your verse....Romans 3:11

Hebrews 11:6​

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Proverbs 8:17​

I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

1 Chronicles 16:11​

Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!

Jeremiah 29:13​

You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Deuteronomy 4:29​

But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Matthew 7:7-8​

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

Psalm 9:10​

And those who know your name put their trust in you, for you, O Lord, have not forsaken those who seek you.

Isaiah 55:6-7​

“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Psalm 119:10​

With my whole heart I seek you; let me not wander from your commandments!

Lamentations 3:25​

The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.

James 4:8​

Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

​

 

[Christ_empowered]

Romans 9:15 ; Isaiah 55:11


with or without going 110% all in on Calvinism (LOL), I find a TULIP-tinted lens helps me understand Scripture -and- the world around me, honestly.

It isn't "ohhh, I"m amazingly special, part of the elect!," its more...well, why am I saved, anyway?...and also: how does one really make sense of the wheat -and- the tares, the good teachers and the false prophets, etc.?

I don't think there is really a need for an acrimonious debate on this, honestly. The big, big, big thing is: 'work out your salvation with fear and trembling,' Philippians 2:12 ...

and, in my own personal case...be thankful for being lifted out of the miry clay, amen. It isn't so much that God's gung-ho about -excluding- anyone from Heaven...any and every human being, ever, has fallen short of the Glory of God...

its that He is merciful to extend His love and mercy to some, enabling Christians to pursue Him....

because He wills it to happen.

 

[GodsGrace]

Romans 9:15 ; Isaiah 55:11


with or without going 110% all in on Calvinism (LOL), I find a TULIP-tinted lens helps me understand Scripture -and- the world around me, honestly.

It isn't "ohhh, I"m amazingly special, part of the elect!," its more...well, why am I saved, anyway?...and also: how does one really make sense of the wheat -and- the tares, the good teachers and the false prophets, etc.?

I don't think there is really a need for an acrimonious debate on this, honestly. The big, big, big thing is: 'work out your salvation with fear and trembling,' Philippians 2:12 ...

and, in my own personal case...be thankful for being lifted out of the miry clay, amen. It isn't so much that God's gung-ho about -excluding- anyone from Heaven...any and every human being, ever, has fallen short of the Glory of God...

its that He is merciful to extend His love and mercy to some, enabling Christians to pursue Him....

because He wills it to happen.

Why isn't God merciful to all?

How could He be called a merciful God if he decides to save only some?

Ephesians 2:4-5
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

James 2:13
For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Luke 6:36
Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

Psalm 86:5
For you, O Lord, are good and forgiving, abounding in steadfast love to all who call upon you.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Psalm 145:9
The Lord is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made.


God 's mercy is over all that He has made....not just some.
Yes, CE,,,this is a very big deal to me.
We cannot change the nature of God...which is what calvinism does.
You could have been thankful even without calvinism...why is calvinism necessary??

1 Timothy 2:4 states that God desires ALL MEN to be saved....
not just some picked at random.
This is unloving, unmerciful and unjust.
This is not the God of the bible.