Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?

[JLB]

I believe salvation brings faith

We receive faith when we hear God speak to us.

Our faith that we received when we hear God, is activated when we obey what God says.


Otherwise is we don't obey the word from God, by which we receive faith, it remains dormant or dead, inactive and therefore does not produce the intended result.



JLB

 

[Randy]

In order to remain in Christ's love you must keep His commands.
As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

So the question is, "Is Jesus required for your salvation?"

That's a YES

So keep His commands and remain in Him.

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him

 

[rogerg]

We receive faith when we hear God speak to us.

Our faith that we received when we hear God, is activated when we obey what God says.


Otherwise is we don't obey the word from God, by which we receive faith, it remains dormant or dead, inactive and therefore does not produce the intended result.

I disagree with your reply for a multitude of reasons all of which I won't go into at this moment, but, according to your understanding, please answer the following question.

In Gal 5:22 we are informed of the fruits of the Spirit, one of them being faith. By the very fact that we are informed that faith comes from the Holy Spirit, then, at the same time, we are also being informed that faith isn't/can't be received any other way - both sides of the coin have to be considered: the how do you receive it side, and the how can't you receive it side. How then could it be possible to first receive faith in order to "obey" (were that even a requirement which I don't believe it is), before first receiving the Spirit, by whom faith itself is given? Receiving, or being indwelt (my word) by the Holy Spirit is to be born again. So, as I frequently say, one must first be born again to be given/have true faith, which is a free gift that is associated with it.
It all comes down to this: Christ alone is Savior, we are not

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[JLB]

I disagree with your reply for a multitude of reasons all of which I won't go into at this moment, but, according to your understanding, please answer the following question.

In Gal 5:22 we are informed of the fruits of the Spirit, one of them being faith.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23 NKJV


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23 KJV

By the very fact that we are informed that faith comes from the Holy Spirit, then, at the same time, we are also being informed that faith isn't/can't be received any other way

Faith, the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen, and comes to us by hearing God; directly or indirectly.


Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17


Example:


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7



Noah received faith when God spoke to him to build the ark.



JLB

 

[rogerg]

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God is God. To "hear" we must first be indwelt by the word of God - the Holy Spirit. Even by your own statement, you've said that hearing must be BY the word of God.

 

[rogerg]

In order to remain in Christ's love you must keep His commands.
As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

[Jhn 15:9 KJV]
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

[Jhn 15:10 KJV] 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

[Jhn 15:12 KJV]
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

[1Pe 1:22 KJV]
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:

** Christ is the truth (above): those who are/were born again through the Spirit obey Christ and His command to love the brethren -- love being a fruit of the Spirit. Without the Spirit, the love that Christ commands us to give, cannot be given. Having the Spirit, that love cannot, not, be given. If it cannot, not, be given, then they who can give it will always remain in Christ's love. That Spirit is given only to those whom God has chosen individually for such

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Phl 2:13 KJV]
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

The question we didn't address but is an extremely important one is: what is that "love"? What are it's attributes, what does it consist of, and how does a born again Christian manifest it

 

[Bezalel]

... clarification requested.
I do not keep God's commandment "you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. "
.... your statement indicates that I am going to hell

Is it your claim the anyone that doesn't "love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. " goes to hell? Is so, have you kept that commandment?

... clarification requested.

When we have the Heart of Jesus Christ and we love him we always went to approach everything we do with our best efforts and a heart towards him. However I do not think salvation itself is based on what we do or what we do not do. I believe our salvation is based on what he did at the cross and it is very important that we do not lose sight of that ever. It is very tempting these days to excuse behaviors, as if any of us had the The way I look at this is for our faith in Jesus Christ we are saved but what will the quality of our Salvation be like? Jesus gives plenty of examples telling us that we here and now can influence our Salvation then and there. He talks about this would treasuring up Treasures in Heaven instead of down here. Clearly this is an effort to do something now even though you were already saved, that will affect some quality of Salvation and Eternity with the Lord. In a similar way I see our sins and dedication to Lord. We are safe for our faith in his finished work at the cross but we are now walking in eternity. What we do affects not only the hearing now but sit there and then when we are fully present with the Lord. So salvation is a gift of Grace if we learn it is no longer a gift of Grace so our sins cannot really be an integral elements. However there was a fine line between salvation and grieving the Holy Spirit Away

... clarification requested.
I do not keep God's commandment "you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. "
.... your statement indicates that I am going to hell

Is it your claim the anyone that doesn't "love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. " goes to hell? Is so, have you kept that commandment?

... clarification requested.

I believe that our Salvation is a gift from God it is Grace. If it is dependent or behavior it is some form of working is not a Grace and therefore is not giving of God but rather earned by man. However once saved I believe we are seeking to please the Lord more and more not less and less. The Lord says in Isaiah that no longer will we follow laws written on Stone but there was written on our hearts. If Jesus Christ is crucified and the law was crucified with him and now Jesus Christ is formed in our hearts by faith we follow the law not Buy tablets and external application but by faith love and dedication to our Lord. I'm really not disagreeing with anyone.

Jesus is very clear but we are safe for a faith in him but he's also pretty clear and that there are things we can do here and now that will influence our salvation. For example in terms of giving money he talks about treasuring Treasures in Heaven and not here on Earth. He is clearly talking about an action we do now in faith and in love that will affect us at later time.

So I believe that salvation is a gift and a Grace from God but it actually creates a greater burden in the greater seeking of the Lord to please him and thank him for such a Grace. Otherwise there would be no hope and we would be in the pit, literally

 

[JLB]

When we have the Heart of Jesus Christ and we love him we always went to approach everything we do with our best efforts and a heart towards him. However I do not think salvation itself is based on what we do or what we do not do. I believe our salvation is based on what he did at the cross and it is very important that we do not lose sight of that ever. It is very tempting these days to excuse behaviors, as if any of us had the The way I look at this is for our faith in Jesus Christ we are saved but what will the quality of our Salvation be like? Jesus gives plenty of examples telling us that we here and now can influence our Salvation then and there. He talks about this would treasuring up Treasures in Heaven instead of down here. Clearly this is an effort to do something now even though you were already saved, that will affect some quality of Salvation and Eternity with the Lord. In a similar way I see our sins and dedication to Lord. We are safe for our faith in his finished work at the cross but we are now walking in eternity. What we do affects not only the hearing now but sit there and then when we are fully present with the Lord. So salvation is a gift of Grace if we learn it is no longer a gift of Grace so our sins cannot really be an integral elements. However there was a fine line between salvation and grieving the Holy Spirit Away

I believe that our Salvation is a gift from God it is Grace. If it is dependent or behavior it is some form of working is not a Grace and therefore is not giving of God but rather earned by man. However once saved I believe we are seeking to please the Lord more and more not less and less. The Lord says in Isaiah that no longer will we follow laws written on Stone but there was written on our hearts. If Jesus Christ is crucified and the law was crucified with him and now Jesus Christ is formed in our hearts by faith we follow the law not Buy tablets and external application but by faith love and dedication to our Lord. I'm really not disagreeing with anyone.

Jesus is very clear but we are safe for a faith in him but he's also pretty clear and that there are things we can do here and now that will influence our salvation. For example in terms of giving money he talks about treasuring Treasures in Heaven and not here on Earth. He is clearly talking about an action we do now in faith and in love that will affect us at later time.

So I believe that salvation is a gift and a Grace from God but it actually creates a greater burden in the greater seeking of the Lord to please him and thank him for such a Grace. Otherwise there would be no hope and we would be in the pit, literally

Do you consider obeying the Gospel a “work”?


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17


Do you believe obeying the Gospel is required to be saved?



By the way… Welcome! Glad you found us.

Blessings to you.


Love your avatar name.




JLB

 

[Edward]

You don't get to sit in judgment of God, wondering. It's arrogant for you to think you can because you don't like it.

You are not understanding what she said.

 

[JLB]

The word of God is God. To "hear" we must first be indwelt by the word of God - the Holy Spirit. Even by your own statement, you've said that hearing must be BY the word of God.

Jesus Christ is the word; the message of salvation

He is our salvation.


The “word of God” in Romans 10:17 by context, refers to the Gospel message of Jesus Christ; the message (word) of salvation.


Here are the steps —


How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17




JLB

 

[rogerg]

The “word of God” in Romans 10:17 by context, refers to the Gospel message of Jesus Christ; the message (word) of salvation

" the message of salvation"
" He is our salvation."
Wait - didn't you just contradict yourself? If you are saying it is up to us to hear to be saved, then, if He is our salvation, there can be nothing remaining that we must do for it to include the hearing of it.

Here are the steps —


How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17

[Rom 10:16 KJV]
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[Rom 10:17 KJV]
17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[Rom 10:18 KJV]
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

They did hear the Gospel with physical ears yet couldn't obey. Had they truly heard, they would have obeyed. Why then were they unable to? Because they were not given ears that hear. So as in v17, unless one is given hearing by the Word of God, they remain deaf.

[Rev 19:13 KJV]
13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The hearing at issue is not physical hearing with human ears but spiritual hearing in the spirit. Until given spiritual ears that can hear spiritually, the Gospel cannot be heard(perceived and believed). That being said, our belief in Christ is not what saves. Our belief in Christ is the RESULT of becoming born again which is the RESULT of having been saved, which is the RESULT of Christ's faithfulness to the Father. This means that God is the Savior, not ourselves.
You do believe that Christ is the Savior, don't you?

 

[rogerg]

You are not understanding what she said.

Sorry, not intentional - what did I miss?

 

[Edward]

Sorry, not intentional - what did I miss?

It was Wondering's last two posts to you up above your post where you said that statemen in response to her.

Sorry Brother I have a cheese cake in the oven and I gotta stay on top of it, lol. Otherwise I'd take time to chase down post #'s and stuff. I can not burn this cheese cake.

 

[rogerg]

It was Wondering's last two posts to you up above your post where you said that statemen in response to her.

Sorry Brother I have a cheese cake in the oven and I gotta stay on top of it, lol. Otherwise I'd take time to chase down post #'s and stuff. I can not burn this cheese cake.

I can understand that. When you have a chance, if you would, please let me know which post you're referring to - no rush. Thanks

 

[JLB]

the message of salvation"
" He is our salvation."
Wait - didn't you just contradict yourself?

No contradiction.

Jesus is the Message: the Word

Jesus means the Lord is salvation. If you have Jesus you have eternal life.


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1 John 5:12



JLB

 

[Edward]

I can understand that. When you have a chance, if you would, please let me know which post you're referring to - no rush. Thanks

It was your post #476 in this thread I extracted your blurb from, so just scroll up from there to Wondering's last two or three posts before yours (476). From what I surmise from reading your exchange is that you have misunderstood what Wondering was saying to you by aproxx 180 degrees.

 

[Randy]

[Jhn 15:9 KJV]
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

[Jhn 15:10 KJV] 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

[Jhn 15:12 KJV]
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

[1Pe 1:22 KJV]
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:

** Christ is the truth (above): those who are/were born again through the Spirit obey Christ and His command to love the brethren -- love being a fruit of the Spirit. Without the Spirit, the love that Christ commands us to give, cannot be given. Having the Spirit, that love cannot, not, be given. If it cannot, not, be given, then they who can give it will always remain in Christ's love. That Spirit is given only to those whom God has chosen individually for such

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Phl 2:13 KJV]
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

The question we didn't address but is an extremely important one is: what is that "love"? What are it's attributes, what does it consist of, and how does a born again Christian manifest it

Then why the instruction/warning to those that have that anointing? Its by the Spirit we CAN put down the misdeeds of the flesh and live. BUT its still choices made.
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

 

[rogerg]

Then why the instruction/warning to those that have that anointing? Its by the Spirit we CAN put down the misdeeds of the flesh and live. BUT its still choices made.
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

If I've understood your point correctly (and I might not have), when someone becomes born again with/by the Holy Spirit, they are not immediately imbued will all spiritual wisdom. It is a continual process, but one that is directed by God who leads them into greater and greater (correct) spiritual knowledge and wisdom, which knowledge and wisdom conforms to, agrees with, and is subjective to, the Gospel of Christ.
The Holy Spirit leads into recognizing true and correct spiritual doctrine in order to serve as a basis for their "choices". Nevertheless, spiritual choices are not what saves someone (if that's what you're alluding to) -- only God can save.
As I'm not exactly sure how you're using the word "choices" I may have misunderstood your point. If so, please let me know - thanks

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

 

[Edward]

If I've understood your point correctly (and I might not have), when someone becomes born again with/by the Holy Spirit, they are not immediately imbued will all spiritual wisdom. It is a continual process, but one that is directed by God who leads them into greater and greater (correct) spiritual knowledge and wisdom, which knowledge and wisdom conforms to, agrees with, and is subjective to, the Gospel of Christ.
The Holy Spirit leads into recognizing true and correct spiritual doctrine in order to serve as a basis for their "choices". Nevertheless, spiritual choices are not what saves someone (if that's what you're alluding to) -- only God can save.
As I'm not exactly sure how you're using the word "choices" I may have misunderstood your point. If so, please let me know - thanks

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Don't make it overly difficult, Brother. If someone was predestined as in, they have no choice, that is erroneous. Our life here on earth is all about free will. God does not violate free will and will never force Himself upon anyone. Ye have not because ye ask not...


1 Peter 1:13-15
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”.../

So clearly the idea is to press in and grow. That, the Lord will reward of you. The Lord will also reward you for not sinning and obeying Him in all He has said.

When we are saved and born again, the outward man does not change. We receive a new spirit within us which we can not see. And scripture says that

John 1:11-13
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.../

Some received Him not. (Lukewarm Christians)
The ones who did receive Him He will make into sons of God. But it's clearly by our perseverance and cooperation with Him. It sounds like a promotion... The way you talk Brother, you almost make it sound like once you're born again, it's finished, but the opposite is true for it has just begun.

The way I understand it, there are four levels of relationship with God. Servant, Friend, Sons, Brides. The first three we decide to press in for and the 4th one, the Bride...Jesus decides that one. So it sounds like there is plenty of room for improvement and promotions within the Kingdom of God. It all depends upon our will, our choices.

I think I remember a scripture which talks about how Angels go around measuring the servants spirituality height. That must be for promotional considerations? So our life is always under review. He has set before us life and death, therefor choose life.

 

[Edward]

when someone becomes born again with/by the Holy Spirit, they are not immediately imbued will all spiritual wisdom. It is a continual process, but one that is directed by God who leads them into greater and greater (correct) spiritual knowledge and wisdom

But keep in mind that He can do no work upon us inside of us until after we come into His presence. Either by prayer or reading His Word...then He makes directives and revelations and so forth.

Ye have not because ye ask not. Seek until you find it. Knock and it shall be opened unto you. Draw near to the Lord and He will draw near to you...