I won't reply until you answer my question (far more important than any ritual): Do you or do you not have a personal, intimate relationship with God?
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Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?
- Thread starter Fastfredy0
- Start date
Walpole
Member
You missed my point again. The fact that Christ became man and spoke to the Apostles itself happened via an intermediary (the Virgin Mary, who gave the Logos His human nature).
1 Timothy 2:5 says nothing about praying to the saints.
1 Timothy 2:5 --> "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
St. Paul here is instructing the young bishop Timothy by making a Christological statement testifying to Christ's unique mediation as the one and only God-man who offered Himself to the Father. (cf. 1 Tim 2:5-6) We know this because St. Paul would tell the faithful at Galatia there are other mediators...
"Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator." (Galatians 3:19)
Christ's unique mediation stems from the fact that He is the Theandros, who alone can offer Himself to the Father.
Walpole
Member
Yes, I have a personal and intimate relationship with God.
If you don't want to answer my question, it is for obvious reasons and I won't press you further.
What we know about Jesus we know through the Apostles --- His intermediaries.
Jesus never spoke to any of us directly as He did to the Apostles.
This is not the same as speaking to us in our spirit, or heart.
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“I baptize you with water, for repentance, but the one coming after me is more powerful than I am—I am not worthy to carry his sandals! He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
Therefore, water baptism is a ritual, unlike baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is Christ giving believers the true essence of God Himself.
Thank you for not continuing this discussion about the rituals.
Jaybo,,,,
Please stop.
Catholics trust in Jesus just like you do.
But HOW do we have a direct line to God?
Do you know if tomorrow is your last day?
Has God communicated that to you?
The Holy Spirit communicated these truths to the Apostles.
....what they were going to face in their ministry, their hardships - which they certainly did encounter.
Paul even knew that he was going to be killed in Rome and that he was writing his last letters. (Timothy).
And, go figure, even catholics know about the New Covenant ....!
And we are all subject to God's rules.
And rely on our savior who died for all mankind.
As I said earlier, thank you for not continuing this discussion about the rituals.When did baptism become a ritual?
Were YOU not baptized with water?
Jaybo,
you said that to Walpole.
Weren't we all baptized?
Is that a ritual? I mean JUST a ritual (if that can even be said, but it sounds like that's how you mean it).
I'm trying to figure out what you mean.
Do we become baptized in the Holy Spirit at salvation?
and then still need water baptism?
Or do you believe baptism in the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues (or some other visual proof)?
I don't mean to debate this with you...
Just trying to understand.
All right, one more time...
Water baptism is a ritual, symbolically stating the death of the "old person" and the birth of the "new person" in Christ. It is not necessary for salvation.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is an act by God, giving us His living essence within us. It is an act performed solely by God and is "the second birth".
I believe that there are various gifts of the Spirit. "Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are different ministries, but the same Lord. And there are different results, but the same God who produces all of them in everyone. To each person the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the benefit of all. For one person is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, and another the message of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another performance of miracles, to another prophecy, and to another discernment of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. It is one and the same Spirit, distributing as he decides to each person, who produces all these things." 1 Corinthians 12:4-11
BTW, I "speak in tongues", generally meaning that I pray to God in the language that He gave me immediately after I was healed and saved.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
My question is: If one believes water baptism is necessary for salvation ... is this belief the equivalent of circumcision spoken of in Galatians 5:2 and the consequences spoken of in Galatians 5:2?
By you saying you disagree with Christ being God then I can only assume you know nothing about Deity? I hope I am wrong in thinking this of you.
I definitely believe, no I know that Christ is God. I'm confused by what you posted. Did you post all of it?
Nothing is done by denominations/non-denominations as all things are done through God's Holy Spirit working through others on God's behalf as it is He, not we.
The "disagree" part of my reply (above) related to the fact that someone (don't recall who) had said (I think) that no man had ever spoken to God. I was/am in complete disagreement with that statement BUT.... in NO way did I say that Christ is not God - in fact, just the reverse. Don't understand how you came to that conclusion?
Make sense?
"Christ was God. Don't know what he meant by that. I would totally disagree with him. Saul spoke to God upon his salvation, John spoke to God in The Revelation, didn't they?"
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
We who are Spiritually born again from above where Christ sits at the right hand of God and are indwelled with His Holy Spirit all have a direct line to Him. According to that one scripture it is Jesus, not Mary, Priest or even the Apostles that make intercession for us. They are all dead laying in their graves unto the day of redemption when Christ returns, John 3:13. Our direct line to God is our prayers we send up to Him and our fellowship with Him as we walk and talk to Him and He with us.
I have idea what your point is.
You said all His disciples, the ones to whom he had given to know the mysteries were born again, regenerated.
I agreed.
JLB
Baptism is not a ritual as it is commanded of God required for salvation.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
Mark 12:26 But concerning the raising of the dead, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken and you are deceiving yourselves!”
Aside: Not that I am defending the thought that Mary, etc. can be my mediator to God.