Is our belief in who Jesus is, necessary for salvation

[jgredline]

Boy,

I notice NO ONE wants to deal with this one. You belittle what has already been offered yet take NO pains to even address it;

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Let me 'break it down FOR you':

Christ, being MADE so MUCH 'better' than the angels. I 'think' this 'speaks for itself'. This says NOTHING concerning 'the flesh'. This is a GENERAL statement SAYING outright that Jesus was MADE. And NOT only does it speak of His CREATION, it goes on to EXPLAIN that it is THROUGH His inheritance, (being the Son, He inherited the deity that so many speak of; this being above the angels, FROM HIS FATHER), that this is SO.

Twist as one may, there is NO way to escape the 'truth'.

Now alone, PLEASE explain what this 'Being made' means if not CREATED. The angels are NOT the sons or daughters of God. The angels WERE 'made', or 'created' by God. So, what does this mean; made BETTER than the angels'? Made by WHO? What does MADE mean? And WHY would this be offered in ANY OTHER CONTEXT? And WHAT does inheritance mean in this scripture. Inherited WHAT from WHO?

Do you NOT see how difficult it is to maintain this; Jesus IS God? The ONLY way is to twist or 'ignore' much scripture that offers THE OPPOSITE.

And, like I said before. I have MUCH more. The only thing is that; as you or others will have a 'hard time' twisting this one, there are others that will be equally or MORE so. Can't wait to see what will be said about the rest. Later this evening. Let's give others the chance to 'catch up' and then we'll move on. But CERTAINLY feel FREE to step in at ANY time and 'explain away'.

MEC

: .....This is quite funny.....Sorry I don't mean to laugh, but Mec, you are really grasping at straws now....

In all the bible, there are no two richer theological books that Romans and Hebrews....A while back when I told you to dive into Hebrews, It was my Prayer that you would see that this special book is all about the ''Deity'' of Jesus Christ....For the sake of Time I will keep this short.....I will give you the context of this verse you ''plucked'' out of context.....

Now let me break it down for u......:wink:

Heb 1:4
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:4 1550TR
4 τοσουτω κρειττων γενομενος των αγγελων οσω διαφορωτερον παρ αυτους κεκληρονομηκεν ονομα

Mec
The actual Greek reads this way to the best of my understanding....
Heb 1:4
by so much better having become the angles as much as more excellent beyond them he has inherited a name

Having become is the key word here mec....The Greek word that the writer uses here is ''ginomai''...This simple verb used here refers to a change of state, not a change of existence, to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage..... Jesus in His divine essence has eternally existed, but for a while He was made lower than the angels....Heb 2:9 The eternal Son took on a human nature to rescue us from death.....Mec, When you begin to understand how the Jews view Angles, you will begin to understand the book of Hebrews...Secondly, when You understand how the Jews related this letter to the OT, you will begin to understand, Thirdly, you will notice that theis book was addressed to the Jews...

 

[jgredline]

j,

Boy, all that sounds, (and looks), Greek to me, (he he he).

All I have pointed out is that the scripture states that Christ was MADE Lord and Savior. That YOU would choose to turn it around into 'something else' is of none effect to me. I have already PLAINLY stated that this is EXACTLY what would be done with PLAIN words that have PLAIN meanings.

Ok, pre-eminence aside, WHO 'made' Christ LORD AND SAVIOR? By WHO'S actual DOING was this MADE possible? Was it Christ who 'made' HIMSELF our Lord and Savior?

MEC

Mec
You are the one who claimed you have scriptures to prove Jesus was created...remember? ''YOU'' are the one doing all the twisting here....

I notice you have not challenged my writings....

None the less, lets see what else you have cooking.....

 

[Imagican]

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6

Solo,

Your posted scripture above offers EXACTLY what I have been trying to show over and over again.

ONE God and Father of ALL. This STATES without DOUBT that God IS The Father PERIOD. That God IS The Father of Jesus Christ as WELL as every other life that we know of. What YOU have offered above STATES this.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

j,

OK, So, the book was 'written' to the Jews/Hebrews. I still have yet to have you answer the questions. WHO 'made' Christ LORD and SAVIOR. "WHO" made Christ a 'little lower than the angels'? And HOW can you be SO sure that it is NOT YOU that twist the scripture to MAKE it mean what YOU choose?

For I have offered it as PLAINLY as it can be stated. If I MADE ANYTHING to a 'greater' quality or a 'lesser' quality, that does NOT 'change' the FACT that is OF MY CREATION. So, WHO 'made' Christ LORD AND SAVIOR?

You would have others believe that Christ MADE HIMSELF. That's ridiculous. For we have MUCH scripture that STATES WHO made Christ. That is WHY the name Son of God EXISTS. For there MUST be a father for there to BE a son. And the father is FIRST, the son; second. There cannot be a SON at the SAME TIME as the father. And the NATURE of a 'father' to being with is the form that the son COMES FROM. For there to BE a son there HAS to be 'creation' of SOME SORT. And even from YOUR standpoint, EVEN IF CHRIST WERE GOD TO START WITH, then a PART of God HAD to MAKE the 'other part' the Son.

Now, I have 'created' NOTHING here but understanding. You would have me accept that this 'trinity' can NOT be understood and the parts that don't MAKE any sense are a 'mystery'? HUH? God's SON isn't REALLY His Son but 'something' OTHER THAN His Son. For you see, the Son is REALLY the 'father in disguise'. WHAT? If this were some 'Charley Chaplin movie it would be EXTREMELY FUNNY. IT's NOT though. WE deal here with something of monumental importance.

For to worship a 'god' of one's OWN making, one worships to NO POSITIVE EFFECT. There is NO salvation in ANY other God than the ONE TRUE GOD. That HE chose to offer this Salvation through the DEATH of His Son is NOT UP TO US TO DISCERN. There is NOTHING to discern. It is BY HIS CHOICE HOW He chose to offer us forgiveness. And taking the Son and calling Him the Father is to NEGATE the actual personage of God to start with. This being the case, HOW do you suppose one is to KNOW The ONE True God IF they turn the Son INTO this God of their OWN choosing?

There is SO much scripture that PLAINLY points to ONE GOD. And even MORE in the NT that points out that Christ IS the Son of this ONE TRUE GOD. The Son Himself states that He would be NOTHING were it NOT for the Father. That EVERYTHING given Him WAS given Him BY THE FATHER. Yet you say that they are BOTH God. That would be GOD'S my friend no matter HOW mysterious you attempt to alter the words.

j,

This argument is NO different than the CC teaching that the earth is the CENTER of the UNIVERSE. Don't like it? TOO bad cause that's the way we are going to teach it REGARDLESS OF THE FACTS that point in a 'different' direction. And if we CATCH you even 'trying' to teach anyone that we are WRONG, we'll just have to 'lock you up' and throw away the key. Now, how do you think it makes these 'good folks' look when the 'truth' FINALLY becomes MANIFEST through the PROOF that IS capable of being produced? Hardly credible from 'my' standpoint. And at the point that we SEE CLEARLY to what EXTENT these will go to 'cover' their FAULTS, at this point, how can ANYTHING that have to offer be accepted with ANYTHING BUT sceptacism?

I KNOW where 'trinity' CAME from. I know HOW 'trinity' was FORCED INTO the congregation. I KNOW that there is NO 'trinity' in The Word. Therefore it doesn't take ANY major LEAP to come to a 'conclusion' concerning this DOCTRINE. For IF it DID NOT come from God, it OBVIOUSLY came from 'men'. For IF it came from God, it would have been REVEALED WITHOUT the 'mystery' that so many seem to refer to when discussing the issue. Something of this monumental IMPORT would have BEEN CLEARLY defined and 'trinity' IS NOT. It's NOT ONLY a 'man-made' doctrine, but as far as we KNOW, has NEVER been used by God in eternity. Perhaps it is NOT EVEN PART OF HIS VOCABULARY. Like MOST things that we are NOT TO EVEN SPEAK OF, perhaps 'trinity' is but ANOTHER one of these 'things'. For the WORD was never even MENTIONED IN ANY FASHION in The Word.

I go BACK to the 'truth'. If you had NEVER had 'someone' TEACH you this doctrine, HOW WOULD YOU EVEN KNOW THE WORD?

MEC

MEC

 

[Imagican]

But, I digress.

Back to the subject at hand;

Hebrews 2:17

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

My question here: WHO 'made' Christ Like unto his brethren?

Hebrews 5:5

5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

IF Christ 'glorified NOT himself to be MADE an high priest, WHO did IT glorify? The answer is here; HE THAT SAID UNTO HIM, (Christ), Thou are MY SON, TODAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE. This PLAINLY states that it was NOT Christ who was glorified but GOD, the Father. And 'made' here DOES specify a 'creation'. For to MAKE something INTO something IS to 'create' SOMETHING.

If you were in school studying to be a priest. IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE for you to BECOME this 'priest' ON YOUR OWN. Those that designate priesthood would NEED 'MAKE' you a priest. Now, WHO MADE Christ a 'priest'? And NOT 'just' a priest, but an HIGH PRIEST. Christ HIMSELF? Not what the scripture states. For Christ HIMSELF stated over and over again that the words that He offered were NOT HIS OWN, but GIVEN HIM by the Father. We KNOW that the Father IS God.

MEC

 

[mutzrein]

Solo - there is the LORD God and there is also His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. They differ in position and authority. I know you don't want to accept it but that's OK with me. Carry on believing what you will but don't judge or condemn that which God has cleansed, made alive in Christ and set free from the power of sin and death by the Spirit of the living God.

It is not becoming of a man who says he has the mind of Christ . . . who said "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven"

 

[Solo]

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6

Solo,

Your posted scripture above offers EXACTLY what I have been trying to show over and over again.

ONE God and Father of ALL. This STATES without DOUBT that God IS The Father PERIOD. That God IS The Father of Jesus Christ as WELL as every other life that we know of. What YOU have offered above STATES this.

MEC

Why do you ignore the One Lord portion of Scripture. Trinitarians agree that there is only ONE GOD. Jesus is God according to the Scriptures. You only believe half of who Jesus is; that being that Jesus is a man sent by God. What you fail to believe is that God sent himself as His own Son, subjective to Him, the Father, as a man. Not a real biggie for those who are true believers guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[MarkT]

Which one of your Lords is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings? I take it that you place the Lord Jesus Christ above the Heavenly Father.

Should we believe someone who says that there are two Lords, even when Jesus teaches that there is only ONE LORD in His explanation of the greatest commandment.

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. Mark 12:29-30

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deuteronomy 6:4

And Paul teaches that there is only ONE LORD and only ONE GOD.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6

Zechariah prophesies that LORD JEHOVAH GOD will come and stand on the Mount of Olives, and that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD will come with all of the saints, and the LORD JEHOVAH GOD will be the KING over all the earth, and HE will be the ONE LORD.

1 Behold, the day of the LORD [JEHOVAH] cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD [JEHOVAH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD [JEHOVAH] my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD [JEHOVAH], not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD [JEHOVAH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [JEHOVAH], and his name one. Zechariah 14:1-9

Solo

If I saw your image, would I say it's not you? Probably not. I would be loath to say it's not you. If I saw you in person, would I say your appearance was not you? Probably not. God is spirit and no one has ever seen God. That's what the Son of God said. But God has a body so to speak. Effectively God's Word is his body. We have arms and legs and a head with ears and a mouth. Our parts serve us. Effectively God's Word serves God. We have arms. God's Word is his arm. As the prophet Isaiah wrote, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD", Isaiah 51:9 and again Isaiah calls him the arm of the Lord, "to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Isaiah 53:1 We have a mouth. God's Word is his mouth. So the LORD did say those things but the words came from the Father. If Christ was the LORD, then what he said, that "the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak", also applies to the LORD. In other words, if you understand what Jesus said, then the Father himself gave the LORD commandment what to say and what to speak. You could say the LORD was the light in whom the LORD appeared or as Paul put it, referring to the light, 'he was in the form of God'. The LORD appeared as God Almighty to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Seeing the Father's image, it is hard to say he isn't the Father.

Speaking of Christ, Paul said that even though he was in the form of God but not equal to God, he did not count equality with God as something to be grasped. In other words, he never rebelled against God or tried to be equal to God; as opposed to Satan and his angels who rebelled against God. So the spiritual battle is between the devil who makes himself equal to God and who suggested to Eve that we could be equal to God and Christ who did not rebel. He was faithful and true to God. You could say the Jews mistook him for the devil. Indeed Jesus had to explain he wasn't Satan by saying, 'if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself'. Mt. 12:26

 

[Solo]

Jesus Christ is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD incarnate. Believe it or not.

There is one LORD GOD and the LORD GOD is manifested in the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT; three separate personages making up ONE LORD JEHOVAH GOD.

There is only ONE LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS, and that ONE LORD and KING is THE WORD, JEHOVAH, JESUS CHRIST.

IF you disagree with this truth, then you do not have the Holy Spirit of God according to Scripture.

9 And the LORD [JEHOVAH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [JEHOVAH], and his name one. Zechariah 14:9

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

[MarkT]

Jesus Christ is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD incarnate. Believe it or not.

I shudder when I see words like incarnate. Do you know God will root out any word that didn't come from him? Where is this word in the Bible? Manifested means seen/revealed. Was the Father seen? Yes. Was he seen like we see each other, because we need light to see each other you know? I could be wrong about a lot of things but I'm not wrong in saying the man Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. I think you agree so we have this foundation in common. Blessed are those who believe without seeing. Look! I need light to see you. Right? But no ordinary light can reflect the glory of God. The man was the light, the Word of God. He reflected the glory of God. He was born into this world, a man in our likeness, to serve God, to teach us, to give us life. He is our Saviour, our Lord, our God. Because he died on the cross, we live. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. I didn't know God needed conceiving. The light God was seen in needed conceiving. Why? Because no ordinary light can manifest or reveal a spirit. And God is spirit. He can't be seen like we can see one another by the light of the sun or in the light from a lamp. God can only be seen through and by his Son, Jesus Christ. And we are his sons, sons of light. If your eye is sound, then your whole body will be full of light. Thank God for giving us his Son, his light. Only the Son can reflect the glory of the Father.

I would urge everyone to be careful about the words you store up in your heart because you could be storing up the wrath of God.

 

[Solo]

I shudder when I see words like incarnate. Do you know God will root out any word that didn't come from him? Where is this word in the Bible? Manifested means seen/revealed. Was the Father seen? Yes. Was he seen like we see each other, because we need light to see each other you know? I could be wrong about a lot of things but I'm not wrong in saying the man Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. I think you agree so we have this foundation in common. Blessed are those who believe without seeing. Look! I need light to see you. Right? But no ordinary light can reflect the glory of God. The man was the light, the Word of God. He reflected the glory of God. He was born into this world, a man in our likeness, to serve God, to teach us, to give us life. He is our Saviour, our Lord, our God. Because he died on the cross, we live. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. I didn't know God needed conceiving. The light God was seen in needed conceiving. Why? Because no ordinary light can manifest or reveal a spirit. And God is spirit. He can't be seen like we can see one another by the light of the sun or in the light from a lamp. God can only be seen through and by his Son, Jesus Christ. And we are his sons, sons of light. If your eye is sound, then your whole body will be full of light. Thank God for giving us his Son, his light. Only the Son can reflect the glory of the Father.

I would urge everyone to be careful about the words you store up in your heart because you could be storing up the wrath of God.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments F8 of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Colossians 2:8-9

There is only ONE LORD JEHOVAH GOD, and JESUS CHRIST is the only LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS. Those who have the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling within them know that JESUS CHRIST is LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh. The meaning of the word incarnate literally means enfleshment. The incarnation of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh after the conception and live birth of JESUS CHRIST. JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONE LORD OF LORDS.

9 And the LORD [JEHOVAH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [JEHOVAH], and his name one. Zechariah 14:9

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Those in JESUS CHRIST will not suffer the wrath of GOD JEHOVAH because they are sealed by the HOLY SPIRIT until the day of redemption.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 5:9

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted F2 in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:12-14

Those who are not born again will suffer the wrath of God. It is an easy thing to know whether one is born again or not. If one does not have the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling within them, they are not born again. Those who do not recognize that JESUS CHRIST is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh are antiChrist and are not born of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:7

 

[MarkT]

There is only ONE LORD JEHOVAH GOD, and JESUS CHRIST is the only LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS. Those who have the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling within them know that JESUS CHRIST is LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh. The meaning of the word incarnate literally means enfleshment. The incarnation of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh after the conception and live birth of JESUS CHRIST. JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONE LORD OF LORDS.

There's only one true God and his name is The LORD or YHWH. Jesus Christ is the Lamb, the one who was crucified and lives. He bears the Father's name, 'King of kings and Lord of lords', on his robe and on his thigh. Rev. 19:16 Everything that is made will be subject to him as we are subject to him as he is subject to God.

 

[MarkT]

Those who are not born again will suffer the wrath of God. It is an easy thing to know whether one is born again or not. If one does not have the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling within them, they are not born again. Those who do not recognize that JESUS CHRIST is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh are antiChrist and are not born of the LORD JEHOVAH GOD.

I need to see the words of God exactly as they were given to Peter, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God". The words that you have stored in your heart are your protection from the coming fire. I'm afraid your words will not stand the test.

I know it's your understanding. Whether it comes from words you learned from the church, I don't know. But I think words like 'incarnate' and 'Trinity' have no life in them. I don't know what they are based on. Certainly they don't appear in the Apostle's writings and there's nothing in their writings to suggest they believed Jesus was God incarnate or LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the flesh.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

But I think words like 'incarnate' and 'Trinity' have no life in them. I don't know what they are based on. Certainly they don't appear in the Apostle's writings and there's nothing in their writings to suggest they believed Jesus was God incarnate or LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the flesh.

Well, MarkT, It is based on stuff like this:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him,...

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Plus the countless verses that refer to the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ...

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

 

[Solo]

I need to see the words of God exactly as they were given to Peter, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God". The words that you have stored in your heart are your protection from the coming fire. I'm afraid your words will not stand the test.

I know it's your understanding. Whether it comes from words you learned from the church, I don't know. But I think words like 'incarnate' and 'Trinity' have no life in them. I don't know what they are based on. Certainly they don't appear in the Apostle's writings and there's nothing in their writings to suggest they believed Jesus was God incarnate or LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the flesh.

As I have said before, saying that Jesus is the Son of God is a simple chore; what is not so easy is to say that Jesus is LORD JEHOVAH GOD. That understanding comes when one is born of God and is indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT.

Those who are born of God know that Jesus Christ is LORD of Lords, and that He is the ONE LORD of whom the Scripture reveals. The LORD JEHOVAH GOD has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ, and those who have not the HOLY SPIRIT do not know the Son of God nor the Father God.

All who have the HOLY SPIRIT know that JESUS CHRIST is LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh, and instead of researching the Scriptures that reveal the truth, the natural man rejects this fact as foolishness because he cannot understand the spiritual things of God.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deuteronomy 6:4

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zechariah 14:9

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8:6

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:5

Those who cannot speak that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD has come in the flesh is led by the spirit of antichrist.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:7

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3

Do not be deceived by those who do not have the Holy Spirit of God whereby they do not know Jesus Christ as LORD GOD. Jesus Christ is the fullness of God in the flesh and is the head of all principality and all power.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Colossians 2:8-9

These deceivers can declare that Jesus is this, that, and the other; but they cannot declare that Jesus Christ is LORD JEHOVAH GOD for they have not the HOLY SPIRIT within them.

... and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

[MarkT]

As I have said before, saying that Jesus is the Son of God is a simple chore; what is not so easy is to say that Jesus is LORD JEHOVAH GOD. That understanding comes when one is born of God and is indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT.

Apparently not so simple because you keep saying Jesus is LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the flesh. You're adding your own words to the words of the Apostle John. Saying Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not saying Jesus is LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the flesh. By this we know you are a false prophet. And on top of that you keep making false statements. Your understanding would not come by the Holy Spirit.

Those who are born of God know that Jesus Christ is LORD of Lords, and that He is the ONE LORD of whom the Scripture reveals. The LORD JEHOVAH GOD has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ, and those who have not the HOLY SPIRIT do not know the Son of God nor the Father God.

All who have the HOLY SPIRIT know that JESUS CHRIST is LORD JEHOVAH GOD come in the flesh, and instead of researching the Scriptures that reveal the truth, the natural man rejects this fact as foolishness because he cannot understand the spiritual things of God.

That's not true. No Apostle ever said Jesus Christ is LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the flesh. John said everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God. He didn't say anything about believing he was LORD JEHOVAH GOD. I guess you would say he didn't have the Spirit. Right?

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deuteronomy 6:4

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zechariah 14:9

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8:6

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:5

If you had the Spirit you would say Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. But you don't. You believe God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe - and shudder. James 2:19 Even demons believe God is one.

So far I haven't seen any wisdom in you Solo. You've made false accusations and false statements.

Those who cannot speak that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD has come in the flesh is led by the spirit of antichrist.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:7

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3

Your own words oppose the words of the Apostles. Can't you read? They say Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. And so say I! So who has the words of God in his heart? Whether you can say the LORD JEHOVAH GOD has come in the flesh or not means nothing. You ignore the words of our Master who said he was the Son 0f God and you make up something. No one ever said that this confession you made up has to be made.

Do not be deceived by those who do not have the Holy Spirit of God whereby they do not know Jesus Christ as LORD GOD. Jesus Christ is the fullness of God in the flesh and is the head of all principality and all power.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Colossians 2:8-9

Can't you read? Paul said, 'in him dwelleth', which is consistent with what Jesus said, 'the Father is in me'. If the Holy Spirit was in you, would you say you are the Spirit in the flesh? I hope not! Likewise, Jesus didn't say he was God in the flesh.

These deceivers can declare that Jesus is this, that, and the other; but they cannot declare that Jesus Christ is LORD JEHOVAH GOD for they have not the HOLY SPIRIT within them.

... and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Jesus is Lord. Your words, however, are false!

That's not true. No Apostle ever said Jesus Christ is LORD JEHOVAH GOD in the flesh. John said everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God. He didn't say anything about believing he was LORD JEHOVAH GOD. I guess you would say he didn't have the Spirit. Right?

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deuteronomy 6:4

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zechariah 14:9

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8:6

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:5

If you had the Spirit you would say Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. But you don't. You believe God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe - and shudder. James 2:19 Even demons believe God is one.

So far I haven't seen any wisdom in you Solo. You've made false accusations and false statements.

Those who cannot speak that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD has come in the flesh is led by the spirit of antichrist.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:7

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3

Your own words oppose the words of the Apostles. Can't you read? They say Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. And so say I!

Do not be deceived by those who do not have the Holy Spirit of God whereby they do not know Jesus Christ as LORD GOD. Jesus Christ is the fullness of God in the flesh and is the head of all principality and all power.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Colossians 2:8-9

Can't you read? Paul said, 'in him dwelleth', which is consistent with what Jesus said, 'the Father is in me'. If the Holy Spirit was in you, would you say you are the Spirit in the flesh? I hope not! Likewise, Jesus didn't say he was God in the flesh.

These deceivers can declare that Jesus is this, that, and the other; but they cannot declare that Jesus Christ is LORD JEHOVAH GOD for they have not the HOLY SPIRIT within them.

... and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Jesus is Lord. Your words, however, are false! I want to see the words of God given to Jesus come out of your mouth so I can rest assured you are a son of light.

 

[MarkT]

Do you know Jesus was a man like us. He lived among us. Like us, he came complete with a spirit and a soul and a mind and a body. Solo, you think he was incarnated or something after he was conceived and born? What happened to him? Did Jesus lose his soul? Did he lose his mind? Did he lose his heart? Did his soul become God's soul? Or did God's soul become his soul? Did Jesus disappear? No.

Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. Was that a good confession or not?God made his light one of us so that we could find our way back to God our Father. Christ is our wisdom. I would submit that he is our 'mother' in a sense as we are in him and he gave us life. When he said, "Behold, your mother!" to the disciple, I think he was saying more than just take care of my mother. Anyone agree with me? I know you people are hard of hearing but listen. 'My son, keep your father's commandment, and forsake not your mother's teaching.' Proverbs 6:20 What I'm saying is up for discussion. Do not be goats. You know what I mean? Goat - a stubborn follower. Let us reason together.

 

[Solo]

Do you know Jesus was a man like us. He lived among us. Like us, he came complete with a spirit and a soul and a mind and a body. Solo, you think he was incarnated or something after he was conceived and born? What happened to him? Did Jesus lose his soul? Did he lose his mind? Did he lose his heart? Did his soul become God's soul? Or did God's soul become his soul? Did Jesus disappear? No.

Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. Was that a good confession or not?God made his light one of us so that we could find our way back to God our Father. Christ is our wisdom. I would submit that he is our 'mother' in a sense as we are in him and he gave us life. When he said, "Behold, your mother!" to the disciple, I think he was saying more than just take care of my mother. Anyone agree with me? I know you people are hard of hearing but listen. 'My son, keep your father's commandment, and forsake not your mother's teaching.' Proverbs 6:20 What I'm saying is up for discussion. Do not be goats. You know what I mean? Goat - a stubborn follower. Let us reason together.

The feeble attempt to explain Jesus Christ being someone other than fully God and fully man lacks full support from the Scriptures. One only has to do research into the prophesies made of Jesus Christ from the Prophets of Israel, and the record of the Apostles. The writings of John are explicit in the revelation of the deity of Jesus Christ. The Scriptures that I have provided that reveal that Jesus Christ is the LORD JEHOVAH GOD incarnate have been totally ignored by those who do not believe, while I have totally agreed that Jesus Christ is fully man as well as fully God. The Scriptures teach that Jesus Christ is the ONE LORD GOD and the Scriptures teach that Jesus Christ is FULLY MAN. The Scriptures show Jesus declaring that HE is the SON OF GOD, and the SON OF MAN. The understanding of JESUS CHRIST being the LORD JEHOVAH GOD incarnate can not be understood or believed by those who have not been born of God, for they remain in condemnation until they come to the LIGHT which is the LIFE of men.

 

[Imagican]

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments F8 of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Colossians 2:8-9

Solo,

You take the above scripture to STATE that Jesus Christ IS God. Yet, if you read what it ACTUALLY states: For IN HIM DWELETH all the FULLNESS of the Godhead bodily.

And this is TRUTH, IN Christ DWELLETH..... This is NOT saying that Christ WAS God. This simply states that the FULLNESS of God DWELT WITHIN The Son of God. You take this to mean that Christ WAS the FULLNESS, yet the scripture states that the 'FULLNESS DWELT WITHIN' Christ.

Solo, Do you realize that the fullness of Christ CAN dwell within YOU? That YOU and Christ CAN become as ONE? Now, this BEING true, does this POSSIBLY make YOU Christ? NO, BUT, the SPIRIT CAN dwell within YOU. And if God so willed, the POWER Of God could dwell within you as well.

So there is the REST of the scripture: "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments F8 of the world, and not after Christ".

What we SEE here is a 'warning'. BEWARE. Of what? Philosophical 'concepts' of MEN. Vain deceit. AFTER THE TRADITION OF MEN. After the rudiments of the WORLD.

Now, we KNOW that 'trinity' is a 'man-made' concept. Created by a people STEEPED in religious ritual. Pagan tradition that YOU KNOW seeped into Christianity. Christmas, Easter, Praying to statues, placing a MAN at the HEAD of the Church. The list goes on and on. The Greeks and Romans were BOUND to their philosophies. This is something that they were QUITE VAIN about. Plato, Socrates, etc........ Their influence effects us today NO LESS than it did THOUSANDS of years ago.

And LOOK at the vain deceit, the DEGREE to which the CC has allowed their VANITY to ALTER the example that we were given through Jesus Christ. These people became SO vain in their 'beliefs' that this VANITY allowed them to 'BELIEVE' that they were able to 'create' their OWN Christ and their OWN God. Even their OWN Goddess.

Come on, my brother, isn't it CRYSTAL CLEAR what is offered in this scripture? Can't you see that WE WERE WARNED of EXACTLY what would take place. And Most have simply fallen into the 'trap' that ALL the apostles warned about. Just using the word philosophy to START with should send up a 'warning signal'. These WERE peoples KNOWN for their philosophy. There were the Greeks and Romans that WORSHIPED philosophy AS RELIGION for hundreds, if not thousands of years BEFORE Christ.

The Hebrews/Jews had LITTLE philosophy. There world was MOSTLY; God, slavery, God, slavery, God, slavery. They had little time to 'create' philosophy. The little such as the Cabal etc,,,,, were teachings of their CONQUERORS, NOT their own.

So, we NOW have the ability to 'look back' and understand the cultures of the past and compare this understanding to the writings in The Word. It paints a pretty clear picture. The warnings that we were given have MOSTLY come into fruition EXACTLY as they were offered. We HAVE the 'false prophet', we have the 'anti-Christ', we have mothers turning against daughters, fathers against sons. We have Israel a NATION, we have the ABILITY to cause fire to rain from the heavens. ALMOST EVERYTHING offered in prophecy concerning the world has COME TO BE. Including the warnings of WHERE The Church would be at the time of the END. Even that concerning the 'creation' of and ACCEPTANCE of a 'different' Christ.

MEC

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Hi Solo,
It seems as if MarkT skipped my post and went straight to the one with your name on it. Feel free to copy and paste the verses I posted. :wink:

The verses I posted speak of Jesus before his birth in Bethlehem. They speak of The child that was born, ie: THE SON that was given as being the Mighty God and EVERLASTING FATHER. Isaiah had no problem with the concept that God can be the Father as well as the Son.

Jesus said he saw satan fall, and Scripture is pretty clear that satan fell before the birth of Jesus. Peter wrote of how the OT prophets had the Spirit of Christ in them. John wrote "these three are one".

See if you can get anywhere with those Scriptures. (I didn't).

By the way, I am convinced that as long as one believes that Jesus is the Son of God, and they have repented of their sin and asked Jesus to be Lord of their life, then they are born again, saved, and on their way to heaven. Praise God that I did not need to become perfect in anything in order to get saved. God is not looking for loopholes to keep people out of heaven, He has opened the doors looking to get people in.

1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].