Is our belief in who Jesus is, necessary for salvation

[Solo]

I'm not sure what you mean.

Your analogy of satan possessing a person of the flesh does not make such a one satan. My question to you is "Who's flesh did God possess in reference to Jesus Christ?"

Your analogy was supposed to bring the idea that Jesus is not God by God merely possessing HIM, so who's flesh did God possess?

 

[mutzrein]

Your analogy of satan possessing a person of the flesh does not make such a one satan. My question to you is "Who's flesh did God possess in reference to Jesus Christ?"

Your analogy was supposed to bring the idea that Jesus is not God by God merely possessing HIM, so who's flesh did God possess?

No it wasn't. I didn't say that God possessed anyone's flesh. But there are many who manifest the attributes of God since they are born of God's spirit.

Jesus was the manifestation of God when he was in the flesh. As I said that is different to saying Jesus was God in the flesh.

 

[Solo]

No it wasn't. I didn't say that God possessed anyone's flesh. But there are many who manifest the attributes of God since they are born of God's spirit.

Jesus was the manifestation of God when he was in the flesh. As I said that is different to saying Jesus was God in the flesh.

Your analogy to demon possession was inadequate then. Perhaps you can explain your demon possession analogy in reference to Jesus being God.

Also if Jesus is not God, who is He?
Do you believe that Jesus is created?
Do you believe that Jesus is only a man?
Was Jesus a person prior to being born a man? If so, what person was he, and if not, then when did he become a person.

 

[mutzrein]

Your analogy to demon possession was inadequate then. Perhaps you can explain your demon possession analogy in reference to Jesus being God.

Also if Jesus is not God, who is He?
Do you believe that Jesus is created?
Do you believe that Jesus is only a man?
Was Jesus a person prior to being born a man? If so, what person was he, and if not, then when did he become a person.

I was not making a point about demonic possession but about the meaning of manifest. I find it strange that you want to focus on the demonic possession element when it was clear I was responding to Gabby's quote regarding 'manifest'.

As for your other questions, you have asked me these in the past and as far as I recall they have all been answered. Go back and find what I said if you need to. In fact, since I'm sure you know my answers why not just answer them for me for all to see. And if need be I'll correct any mistakes you make. :D

 

[Imagican]

Also if Jesus is not God, who is He?
Do you believe that Jesus is created?
Do you believe that Jesus is only a man?
Was Jesus a person prior to being born a man? If so, what person was he, and if not, then when did he become a person.

_________________



Solo,

Let ME answer these:

1. Jesus is NOT God but the Son of God. That IS 'who' He IS.

2. You deny that He WAS created for YOU 'believe' that He WAS God. I can offer scripture that STATES that Christ was 'created' or 'made' yet you would deny these for the 'sake' of a 'doctrine' that teaches Christ to BE God.

3. By NO means was Christ ONLY A MAN. He IS The Son of the LIVING GOD. He 'became a man' in order to obey God's will. Christ IS the 'head' of man. Man was created FOR Christ. Christ was 'created FOR GOD'.

4. I 'assume' that there was the 'entity' Christ PREVIOUS to the 'creation' of man. Please DON'T misunderstand what the 'assume' means. By entity I openly admit that I DO NOT KNOW what 'form' He was. Whether He actually had 'substance' or was simply Spirit. This I openly admit to NO KNOWLEDGE of. This 'person' thing that is SO central to a 'trinitarian' belief SYSTEM, means NOTHING to me. God IS God and He is NO RESPECTER OF 'PERSONS'. Entity 'seems' to me to be MORE appropriate in respect of identity. But, Christ DID become a 'man' upon His 'taking on the flesh'. Whether He is STILL in 'bodily form' I cannot say. IT IS possible but I have NOT been given ANY reason to believe ANY particular 'form' other than that the 'tomb was EMPTY'. But JUST as WE will be given 'heavenly bodies', no reason to believe that Christ was NOT given the SAME 'sort' of incorruptible 'body' upon His RETURN to heaven and taking His place at the RIGHT HAND of God.

MEC

 

[Solo]

I was not making a point about demonic possession but about the meaning of manifest. I find it strange that you want to focus on the demonic possession element when it was clear I was responding to Gabby's quote regarding 'manifest'.

As for your other questions, you have asked me these in the past and as far as I recall they have all been answered. Go back and find what I said if you need to. In fact, since I'm sure you know my answers why not just answer them for me for all to see. And if need be I'll correct any mistakes you make. :D

Thank you for confirming your lacking. I appreciate the winding and turning style of your answers. I have also followed your writings in other forums. You are not a friend of believers as you plant doubts and deceptions at every turn. Those who have the Holy Spirit recognize your mannerisms as not being of God; therefore my prayer is for those who are not yet born again, that they may be protected from the lies and deceptions of the enemy which you are propagating.

Only those who have the Holy Spirit can say that Jesus is LORD, and JEHOVAH is LORD. You have been manifested to be without the Holy Spirit.

 

[jgredline]

1. Jesus is NOT God but the Son of God. That IS 'who' He IS.

2. You deny that He WAS created for YOU 'believe' that He WAS God. I can offer scripture that STATES that Christ was 'created' or 'made' yet you would deny these for the 'sake' of a 'doctrine' that teaches Christ to BE God.

Please show me in context where this scripture is found.....

 

[Solo]

Also if Jesus is not God, who is He?
Do you believe that Jesus is created?
Do you believe that Jesus is only a man?
Was Jesus a person prior to being born a man? If so, what person was he, and if not, then when did he become a person.

_________________



Solo,

Let ME answer these:

1. Jesus is NOT God but the Son of God. That IS 'who' He IS.

2. You deny that He WAS created for YOU 'believe' that He WAS God. I can offer scripture that STATES that Christ was 'created' or 'made' yet you would deny these for the 'sake' of a 'doctrine' that teaches Christ to BE God.

3. By NO means was Christ ONLY A MAN. He IS The Son of the LIVING GOD. He 'became a man' in order to obey God's will. Christ IS the 'head' of man. Man was created FOR Christ. Christ was 'created FOR GOD'.

4. I 'assume' that there was the 'entity' Christ PREVIOUS to the 'creation' of man. Please DON'T misunderstand what the 'assume' means. By entity I openly admit that I DO NOT KNOW what 'form' He was. Whether He actually had 'substance' or was simply Spirit. This I openly admit to NO KNOWLEDGE of. This 'person' thing that is SO central to a 'trinitarian' belief SYSTEM, means NOTHING to me. God IS God and He is NO RESPECTER OF 'PERSONS'. Entity 'seems' to me to be MORE appropriate in respect of identity. But, Christ DID become a 'man' upon His 'taking on the flesh'. Whether He is STILL in 'bodily form' I cannot say. IT IS possible but I have NOT been given ANY reason to believe ANY particular 'form' other than that the 'tomb was EMPTY'. But JUST as WE will be given 'heavenly bodies', no reason to believe that Christ was NOT given the SAME 'sort' of incorruptible 'body' upon His RETURN to heaven and taking His place at the RIGHT HAND of God.

MEC

Jesus is LORD JEHOVAH according to the Scriptures, or do you believe in two LORDS?

If you cannot confess that JESUS is LORD JEHOVAH you do not have the HOLY SPIRIT residing within you.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that
no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Jesus created all things in heaven and on earth; all things were created for HIMSELF. God was born a man and was named Jesus. All creatures are condemned to death but those who are born again through Jesus into New creatures. Jesus the man is the firstborn of all these NEW CREATURES.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: Colossians 1:15-22

 

[Imagican]

J,

I'm going to 'assume' that since you have 'proclaimed' to be a 'Bible STUDIER' that you HAVE read the Word.

Now a question;

IF I can offer SCRIPTURAL PROOF that Christ WAS CREATED, or MADE, are you WILLING to 'accept it'?

In other words, IF I can offer SCRIPTURE that STATES God CREATED, or MADE, Christ, are you WILLING to ACCEPT what I have offered and ADMIT that you ARE WRONG?

For I have NOTHING to PROVE to myself. I would assume that one that has TRULY read scripture would NOT challenge another over such a matter.

So, let me KNOW if you would REALLY like for me to SHOW you scripture that STATES that Christ WAS CREATED, or MADE.

The ONLY 'problem' here is that I have previously WITNESSED to WHAT extremes you folks will GO THROUGH in order to 'talk your way AROUND' the TRUTH. Instead of simply accepting what scipture SAYS, you would CHOOSE to somehow ALTER it to mean what FITS your 'doctrine'. I am offering to show SIMPLE words that state SIMPLE FACTS. But, can you ACCEPT what is offered WITHOUT attempting to ALTER the facts to SUIT your 'doctrine'? We shall CERTAINLY 'see'.

MEC

 

[jgredline]

J,

I'm going to 'assume' that since you have 'proclaimed' to be a 'Bible STUDIER' that you HAVE read the Word.

Since I have proclaimed? Hmmm...first when have I ''proclaimed'' to be a studier....Really you have gone over the deep end....While it is true that I love to study the bible and other things as well, you make it seem like there is something wrong with it....You are the one who has his theology all up in knots and trying to twist scripture all over the place.....

Now a question;

IF I can offer SCRIPTURAL PROOF that Christ WAS CREATED, or MADE, are you WILLING to 'accept it'?

Bring it.....Lets see what you have...

In other words, IF I can offer SCRIPTURE that STATES God CREATED, or MADE, Christ, are you WILLING to ACCEPT what I have offered and ADMIT that you ARE WRONG?

Like I said bring it...And know that I am not some newbie that you will be able to twist around...I will be checking your post for context....Lets see this scripture that you say you have....

For I have NOTHING to PROVE to myself. I would assume that one that has TRULY read scripture would NOT challenge another over such a matter.

Well obviously I am not as polished in the study of the scriptures as you, so enlighten me.....

So, let me KNOW if you would REALLY like for me to SHOW you scripture that STATES that Christ WAS CREATED, or MADE.

I will be waiting.....

The ONLY 'problem' here is that I have previously WITNESSED to WHAT extremes you folks will GO THROUGH in order to 'talk your way AROUND' the TRUTH. Instead of simply accepting what scipture SAYS, you would CHOOSE to somehow ALTER it to mean what FITS your 'doctrine'. I am offering to show SIMPLE words that state SIMPLE FACTS. But, can you ACCEPT what is offered WITHOUT attempting to ALTER the facts to SUIT your 'doctrine'? We shall CERTAINLY 'see'.

MEC

Yada yada yada.....Do really believe you can prove Jesus was created when ''nobody'' for 2000 years has been able to prove that? The JW tried, The mormons tried, The christedelphians tried just to name a few and do u know what these cults all have in common....? Exactly that. They are cults and they follow the father of lies....Now bring your scripture and remember I will be tearing apart in Greek so there will not be a translation problem...Now bring it....

 

[Guest]

J,

I'm going to 'assume' that since you have 'proclaimed' to be a 'Bible STUDIER' that you HAVE read the Word.

Now a question;

IF I can offer SCRIPTURAL PROOF that Christ WAS CREATED, or MADE, are you WILLING to 'accept it'?

In other words, IF I can offer SCRIPTURE that STATES God CREATED, or MADE, Christ, are you WILLING to ACCEPT what I have offered and ADMIT that you ARE WRONG?

For I have NOTHING to PROVE to myself. I would assume that one that has TRULY read scripture would NOT challenge another over such a matter.

So, let me KNOW if you would REALLY like for me to SHOW you scripture that STATES that Christ WAS CREATED, or MADE.

The ONLY 'problem' here is that I have previously WITNESSED to WHAT extremes you folks will GO THROUGH in order to 'talk your way AROUND' the TRUTH. Instead of simply accepting what scipture SAYS, you would CHOOSE to somehow ALTER it to mean what FITS your 'doctrine'. I am offering to show SIMPLE words that state SIMPLE FACTS. But, can you ACCEPT what is offered WITHOUT attempting to ALTER the facts to SUIT your 'doctrine'? We shall CERTAINLY 'see'.

MEC

IF Christ was 'made' then:

1) Why did Christ accept worship?

2) Why did Christ refer to himself as "I AM"?

3) How Christ able to forgive sins?

4) Is Christ the only one like himself that was 'made' and how do you know?

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus is LORD JEHOVAH according to the Scriptures, or do you believe in two LORDS?

Yes I certainly do. Have you not read . . .

"Then Jesus said to them, "How is it that they say the Christ is the Son of David? David himself declares in the Book of Psalms: " 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 'David calls him 'Lord.' How then can he be his son?"

 

[Solo]

Yes I certainly do. Have you not read . . .

"Then Jesus said to them, "How is it that they say the Christ is the Son of David? David himself declares in the Book of Psalms: " 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 'David calls him 'Lord.' How then can he be his son?"

You obviously have misunderstood the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords, and King of Kings. Surely you are not suggesting that Jesus Christ is Lord over God Almighty? How do you explain that Jesus cannot be Lord of Lords since there is a LORD greater than He?

LORD GOD JEHOVAH is the Lord of Lords:

• 14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S [JEHOVAH'S] thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. 15 Only the LORD [JEHOVAH] had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day. 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the LORD [JEHOVAH] your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: Deuteronomy 10:17

LORD JESUS CHRIST is the Lord of Lords:

• 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16

Perhaps your natural existence rejects the spiritual things of God for the reason that the Holy Spirit is lacking in your life. Examine yourself today while there is yet time. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they are bound for the Kingdom of God, yet they reject Jesus Christ as Lord, and they teach another gospel. The Jehovah's Witnesses twist much Scripture to fall in line with their bias. What twisting does your bias require in the following verse of Scripture:

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Hebrews 1:1-14

Is not, Jesus Christ, Jehovah God incarnate and as a man must be the example of all mankind in their response towards God Almighty, and is not Jesus Christ the firstborn of the NEW Creation?

Is not God able to exist as one God in the three personages explained in the Scriptures, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19-20

 

[protos]

You obviously have misunderstood the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords, and King of Kings. Surely you are not suggesting that Jesus Christ is Lord over God Almighty? How do you explain that Jesus cannot be Lord of Lords since there is a LORD greater than He?

This is referring to human lords and kings.

 

[Solo]

This is referring to human lords and kings.

So you do not believe that Jesus is LORD GOD either, huh?

And please show me in the Scriptures where this is referring to human lords and kings. Thanks.

 

[jgredline]

This is referring to human lords and kings.

Hello Protos,
May I ask what bible you are reading? This passage is most certainly speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ.....

 

[MarkT]

We believe the man was the Christ, the Son of the living God. We believe he was crucified and God raised him from the dead and God put him on the throne of God and he sits at the right hand of God and he will return to judge the living and the dead. Our hope and our faith are in the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[protos]

Hello Protos,
May I ask what bible you are reading? This passage is most certainly speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ.....

If you are to examine the context of where Lord of lords and King of kings is mentioned (Revelation 17:12), you will see that it is human kings over whom Christ triumphs.

 

[mutzrein]

We believe the man was the Christ, the Son of the living God. We believe he was crucified and God raised him from the dead and God put him on the throne of God and he sits at the right hand of God and he will return to judge the living and the dead. Our hope and our faith are in the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And we agree with that too!

 

[Solo]

We believe the man was the Christ, the Son of the living God. We believe he was crucified and God raised him from the dead and God put him on the throne of God and he sits at the right hand of God and he will return to judge the living and the dead. Our hope and our faith are in the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

A mere "natural" perspective void of the understanding given by the Holy Spirit. I believed the same exact thing prior to being born again, and was lost on my way to hell.