Hospes
Member
I agree completely! In my own case, I see it as very one-sided with me on the receiving end.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Is Salvation really a "free Gift" of God?
- Thread starter Rajesh Sahu
- Start date
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
ezrider
Member
Hello Rajesh,
Our study group just so happened to go over those verses from Mark 10 earlier this week. I must admit, of the four gospels, Mark is typically the last one I turn to, but as we were going over those scriptures, a couple things became apparent to me.
First, the rich man asked what HE MUST DO to receive eternal life, salvation. The rich man claims to have followed all the commandments; Jesus does not dispute that, but rather challenges him to do more by selling all that he has. I don't believe Jesus was instructing his followers that they must sell all that they have, but rather it was a lesson that following all the commandments wasn't enough.
Salvation is a gift from God, it was given at the cross. It is our struggles in the light of the knowledge of the law to actually accept that salvation, to work out our own salvation until our conscience is clear. This sometimes can be our greatest struggle, as we find it most difficult to forgive ourselves.
The "what must I do to be saved" question then leads some into the OSAS debate: What must I do to be saved and then what must I then do to keep it. But the second thing that struck me during our Bible study was that the rich man asked the wrong question, and many continue in asking the same wrong question. We should not be asking what must I do to be saved, that is already given. The question we should be asking is what must I do to glorify the Lord?
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. (John 17:1-4)
Hospes
Member
In trying to wrap my mind around what you wrote, is it accurate to restate what you wrote as:
The means of salvation is obeying the Gospel. The means of obeying the Gospel is repentance. (Repentance defined as turning to God in submission to Him as Lord.) The means to repentance is confessing Jesus as Lord.
Also, if confession is a 100% type of thing, would that mean that repentance and obedience to the Gospel is a 100% type of thing? (Or am I wrong in thinking that confession, repentance, and obedience as things that can be assigned percentages, i.e. they can be partially accomplished?)Am I on the right track in understanding you?
stovebolts
Member
For you, is salvation something you receive ( a one and done), or is it something your able to live into?
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Hospes
Member
Do I have to choose one or the other?
There seems to me an act on God's part in which He gives us new birth. It seems to be an event. (But I have run across people that show evidence of salvation that the event was analog to pregnancy. In the same way a woman suddenly has the thought "Oh, my! I think I may be pregnant!, the born-again believer suddenly has the thought "Oh my! I am believing this stuff and loving Jesus!) But the scriptures make clear there is also progressive salvation that we experience. Finally, I think the scripture points to a completion of our salvation when we leave this world and see Him face to face. From beginning to end I think it is a work of God; He is the author and finisher of our faith.
Seem reasonable?
stovebolts
Member
Yes, not only does it seem reasonable, but it is very much my understanding.Do I have to choose one or the other?
There seems to me an act on God's part in which He gives us new birth. It seems to be an event. (But I have run across people that show evidence of salvation that the event was analog to pregnancy. In the same way a woman suddenly has the thought "Oh, my! I think I may be pregnant!, the born-again believer suddenly has the thought "Oh my! I am believing this stuff and loving Jesus!) But the scriptures make clear there is also progressive salvation that we experience. Finally, I think the scripture points to a completion of our salvation when we leave this world and see Him face to face. From beginning to end I think it is a work of God; He is the author and finisher of our faith.
Seem reasonable?
ezrider
Member
Whom does the DISCIPLE follow?
One request to all our brothers and sisters here. Take advantage of the time at hand due to Corona Virus lock downs and restrictions and STUDY Lord's red lettered words in the NT. When I read them ( exclusively) I felt I was sitting in front of the Lord and he was teaching me -- one one one
As you have been reading the Red Letters, who is a disciple and whom does he follow? Does he follow the Son of Man, or does he follow after the Son of God? Paul preached of the risen Christ, the Son of God. The disciples followed after the Son of Man. Following after Jesus, the Son of Man can lead you no further than the Cross. It seems to me, that when the churches preach salvation, they lead you to the cross and point you to the Son of Man, but then they tend to hold you before the cross.
But as was revealed at the mount of transfiguration, the Son of Man was the Son of God, but they were to tell no one til after he had risen. Jesus, the Son of Man was nailed to the cross. But he is no longer on the cross, he has risen, Christ the Son of God.
You ask the cost of becoming a disciple? Peter, James, John and the others were called Disciples of Jesus while they followed after the Son of Man. But after He had risen they followed after Christ the Son of God; were they not then called Apostles?
Jesus, the Son of Man was crucified outside of the the city walls and gates. The risen Christ, the Son of God has invited you come into the city; but then again, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle! What burdens do you cary that keep you before the cross and outside the city walls? If you wish to follows Christ, then don't just sell all your riches, but give away all that burdens you from entering the city gates.
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Hospes
Member
Always good to find agreement!
To maintain our balance, let's get over to the Job thread and disagree!
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How do we ourselves, obtain the salvation He paid by His obedience to the Father, if not by obeying the Gospel?
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23
again
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17
I do agree it was by one Man’s obedience, not several, that salvation was made available to the world.
Those who hear the Gospel, must obey it, in order to be saved.
JLB
Yes.
Yes
I have never assigned percentages to repenting, nor do I know if one can assign percentages to it.
I do believe the Lord knows our heart, and if we are sincere or not.
I personally believe that the way to know for sure is He gives the Holy Spirit to those who truly obey Him.
And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Acts 5:32
On the other side of the proverbial coin, our obeying of the Gospel is done by the power (grace) of the Spirit, as it is by the Spirit we are able to confess Jesus as Lord.
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:3
again
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever. 1 Peter 1:22-23
- you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit
JLB
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Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
Yes Grace emanating from the Cross of Christ -- due to his unparalleled sacrifice --- is imputed only to those who are willing to do the Will of God (Matthew 7:21, Mark 3:33-35, 1John 2:17) ---else Jesus does not wish to have any relationship with them. And doing the Will of God is by keeping Christ's commands ( John 14:15).... obeying Him. And His greatest commandments were LOVE ALL, judge no one ( matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 5: 44-46, 1John 4:8, 2 John 1:6)
As per these teachings no one, who has not learned to love, can be saved. This Jesus let us know through the vision ( a sneak peak) of the judgment ment day in the Sheep and Goats account, which you explained concisely and succinctly in one of your previous posts on the thread .
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
James in 2:20 writes "Faith is dead without works. " This he wrote after resurrection and Christ ascension. Doctrine taught by Christ , of which Obedience is a central part, did not change after Christ left. It's still the same. Will always be the same . What Jesus said prior to his crucifixion, ( reference John 3 , all 3 are needed Faith, Baptism, Obedience) , this Jesus repeats again AFTER resurrection in the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20. Our consistent Christ !
And I'll implore all believers who exclusively believe one is saved by Faith alone to NOT share the great commission of Christ , if they are not obeying the Lord themselves. For that would unfortunately amount to hypocrisy----- that we are teaching others to obey ALL commandments as per the great commission (Matthew 28:18-20) without us obeying any.
Hospes
Member
Agreed!
Sometimes when I read what you write, I get the sense we are on our own in doing the obeying, confession, and repentance, i.e. I notice only one one side of the coin. Not a criticism of your writing, just simply to say I find it encouraging to see you write regarding both sides of coin.
Amen. Both sides of the coin.
No, I didn’t take it as criticism.
I know my writing skills are very lacking.
JLB
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
On the last day, although both Faith and Obedience will be taken into account, the judge Jesus will likely favor Obedience over anything else. The Good Samaritan was neither a believer nor a Christian . He was half pagan and an idolator. Yet due to the love and compassion that he practised, it won the heart of the savior , who not only lifts him up as a beacon to us, but also alludes and likens His own self to the Samaritan, which I believe is huge . (reference lord's parable of the Good Samaritan).
Obedience is what God the Father sought and Obedience is God the Son sought as well ( which is going against our will and doing the Will of God.....Matthew 7:21, Mark 3:33-35, 1John 2:17) just as the Son always did , even to the point of Death...."can the cup not pass, yet not as I will...."
It is time we the Church must understand we Have to learn to do the Will of God if we at all wish to be saved. For Jesus was crystal clear in Matthew 7 :21, not one will enter the kingdom of God unless we do the will of God ( just as He did). It's a caveat and a terse warning of Christ. And He proves that by giving us a glimpse of the judgment day on which He will reject every Christian who failed to do the will of God ( reference Vision of Sheep and Goats in Matthew) which again you explained so well JLB ??
I think you have done the Lord a great service , by explaining the vital importance of Obedience in the Salvation doctrine of God, through your lucid and knowledgeable words, fraught with Biblical truths , wisdom and accurate interpretation. Truly I've learned more about Chritian faith from you than anyone else. And I strongly believe you're absolutely on target and on point. And I've also seen you getting animatedly attacked for your posts on obedience few years back. At least those attacks have now sharply reduced. Which is very Good news really. Because it means more and more Christians are understanding how absolutely vital and indispensable it is to OBEY. So thank you profoundly JLB ?
I end this post with very simple words of Christ in which the entire message of Bible lays captured ( John 14:15)
" If you love me you will keep my commandments"
This simply means IF we are not obeying the Lord, even after accepting Him as Lord and Savior, we have no love for Him. How then are we saved... As straightforward as that . I take these words of Christ filled with both , blessings and stark warning, very very seriously.
I'd like to share with brethren what the Lord gave me through the Spirit:
"If you don't believe, how will you obey,
And if you do not obey, what have you believed?"
As Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms come together to form the Life giving and sustaining H2O , much similarly, Faith and Obedience must come together to obtain Life-Saving blessings of the Lord
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brightfame52
2024 Supporter
It seems you disagree with my statement.
Those who hear the Gospel, must obey it, in order to be saved.
Please show me a scripture that says we receive salvation by a sovereign application by the Spirit.
An actual scripture, not a scripture reference, to we can all study it and see why you believe this.
JLB