Is Salvation really a "free Gift" of God?

[brightfame52]

It seems you disagree with my statement.


Those who hear the Gospel, must obey it, in order to be saved.


Please show me a scripture that says we receive salvation by a sovereign application by the Spirit.

An actual scripture, not a scripture reference, to we can all study it and see why you believe this.


JLB

You read my post and yes it does not agree with you. The Spirit is Sovereign in Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth 2 These 2:13

 

[brightfame52]

I have never assigned percentages to repenting, nor do I know if one can assign percentages to it.


I do believe the Lord knows our heart, and if we are sincere or not.


I personally believe that the way to know for sure is He gives the Holy Spirit to those who truly obey Him.


And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Acts 5:32


On the other side of the proverbial coin, our obeying of the Gospel is done by the power (grace) of the Spirit, as it is by the Spirit we are able to confess Jesus as Lord.


Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:3


again


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever. 1 Peter 1:22-23

• you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit

JLB

The obeying of the truth is through the Spirit. 1 Pet 1:22
It's because of the Spirit they obeyed the Truth. Did you study that verse? It doesn't appear you did.

 

[JLB]

You read my post and yes it does not agree with you. The Spirit is Sovereign in Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth 2 These 2:13

The Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of life, (eternal life) is given to those who obey Him.


And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.
Acts 5:32


Eternal salvation is given to those who obey Him.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9




JLB

 

[JLB]

The obeying of the truth is through the Spirit. 1 Pet 1:22
It's because of the Spirit they obeyed the Truth. Did you study that verse? It doesn't appear you did.

I quoted the verse and emphasized the part of obeying the truth through the Spirit, as all can plainly see.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


The truth is the Gospel. The Holy Spirit, which is grace, enables us to obey the Gospel. This is when we are saved, when we obey the Gospel.


JLB

 

[brightfame52]

The Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of life, (eternal life) is given to those who obey Him.


And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.
Acts 5:32


Eternal salvation is given to those who obey Him.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9




JLB

You ignored my answer. And yes the Holy Spirit has been given to them that obey Him , for that is why they obey Him Obedience follows the Sanctification of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:2

elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied

 

[brightfame52]

I quoted the verse and emphasized the part of obeying the truth through the Spirit, as all can plainly see.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


The truth is the Gospel. The Holy Spirit, which is grace, enables us to obey the Gospel. This is when we are saved, when we obey the Gospel.


JLB

I know you quoted it, but I don't believe you understand the verse . The Obedience is because of the Spirit, they were born of the Spirit in order to obey . It supports me and not you.

 

[JLB]

You ignored my answer. And yes the Holy Spirit has been given to them that obey Him , for that is why they obey Him Obedience follows the Sanctification of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:2

elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied

Obedience results in salvation not the other way around.

So far all you have stated is opinion with no scripture.

Only scripture references.

If you expect to have your point considered as valid then please post scripture for us to examine.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


Notice that sslvation does not occur until a person reponds to the Gospel in obedience.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I know you quoted it, but I don't believe you understand the verse . The Obedience is because of the Spirit, they were born of the Spirit in order to obey . It supports me and not you.

The only way a person is born again is by believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

Salvation is the result of obeying the Gospel.

We are not saved until we hear and believe the Gospel.



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Obedience results in salvation not the other way around.

So far all you have stated is opinion with no scripture.

Only scripture references.

If you expect to have your point considered as valid then please post scripture for us to examine.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


Notice that sslvation does not occur until a person reponds to the Gospel in obedience.



JLB

Now you have been dishonest for I have given scripture. I even used scripture that you quoted and gave me support. You quote scripture and don't even understand it.

 

[brightfame52]

The only way a person is born again is by believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

Salvation is the result of obeying the Gospel.

We are not saved until we hear and believe the Gospel.



JLB

You have no support for your opinion. A person must be saved by the work of the Spirit to believe the Gospel. 2 Thess 2:13-14

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[JLB]

Now you have been dishonest for I have given scripture. I even used scripture that you quoted and gave me support. You quote scripture and don't even understand it.

You are only stating your opinion and tagging your opinion with a scripture reference.


This is a scripture reference. Hebrews 5:9

Its not a scripture.


This is a scripture.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


It’s dishonest and divisive of you to claim that you are quoting scripture, when you only tag your opinion with a reference to a scripture.


Please use scripture, so everyone in this thread can examine, it and discuss openly what you are saying.



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

You are only stating your opinion and tagging your opinion with a scripture reference.


This is a scripture reference. Hebrews 5:9

Its not a scripture.


This is a scripture.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


It’s dishonest and divisive of you to claim that you are quoting scripture, when you only tag your opinion with a reference to a scripture.


Please use scripture, so everyone in this thread can examine, it and discuss openly what you are saying.



JLB

You said I didn't give scripture, that was a false statement.

 

[JLB]

You have no support for your opinion. A person must be saved by the work of the Spirit to believe the Gospel. 2 Thess 2:13-14

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

• because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth

Salvation is the result of belief in the truth by which we are sanctified by the Spirit. This occurs because we hear the Gospel, not sometime before we hear the Gospel.


Same thing Peter says —

It’s by believing and therefore obeying the truth through the Spirit that we purify, sanctify, our souls.

• you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


Purifying or sanctification through the Spirit is the result of obeying the truth .


Here is the order —


The Gospel is preached.
We hear the Gospel.
We receive faith.
We believe what we hear and obey it.

Now we are saved.

We are saved by hearing the Gospel and believing it.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


Salvation comes by hearing and obeying the Gospel.

Not sometime “before in our life“, sovereignly by the Spirit.


Example from the Bible —

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:30-31



JLB

 

[JLB]

You said I didn't give scripture, that was a false statement.

Here is your post I was referring to.

Post number 122

brightfame52 said
The obeying of the truth is through the Spirit. 1 Pet 1:22
It's because of the Spirit they obeyed the Truth. Did you study that verse? It doesn't appear you did.

since this post, however you have been doing better and posting the scripture.





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

• because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth

Salvation is the result of belief in the truth by which we are sanctified by the Spirit. This occurs because we hear the Gospel, not sometime before we hear the Gospel.


Same thing Peter says —

It’s by believing and therefore obeying the truth through the Spirit that we purify, sanctify, our souls.

• you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


Purifying or sanctification through the Spirit is the result of obeying the truth .


Here is the order —


The Gospel is preached.
We hear the Gospel.
We receive faith.
We believe what we hear and obey it.

Now we are saved.

We are saved by hearing the Gospel and believing it.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


Salvation comes by hearing and obeying the Gospel.

Not sometime “before in our life“, sovereignly by the Spirit.


Example from the Bible —

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:30-31



JLB

But you said I didn't give scripture, that is not accurate.

 

[JLB]

But you said I didn't give scripture, that is not accurate.

Again, here is your post number 122 that has no scripture.

The obeying of the truth is through the Spirit. 1 Pet 1:22
It's because of the Spirit they obeyed the Truth. Did you study that verse? It doesn't appear you did.

Since then you have been quoting the scripture.

Thank you, good job.


Nevertheless, salvation results after hearing and believing the Gospel.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16




JLB

 

[JLB]

You ignored my answer. And yes the Holy Spirit has been given to them that obey Him , for that is why they obey Him Obedience follows the Sanctification of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:2

elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:1-9

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

First comes the preaching of the Gospel
Then we hear the Gospel, by which we receive faith
We then believe and obey the Gospel, and are saved, born again, sanctified, regenerated and are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.


The key to this is hearing the Gospel.



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:1-9

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

First comes the preaching of the Gospel
Then we hear the Gospel, by which we receive faith
We then believe and obey the Gospel, and are saved, born again, sanctified, regenerated and are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.


The key to this is hearing the Gospel.



JLB

So why you say I dont quote scripture ? Everything I bring to the table is based upon scripture. Just because you and i differ in our understanding of scripture, should not make you say I dont use scripture. I dont say that about you, the scripture you do bring, it doesnt appear you really understand it. You brought up Heb 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Yet I dont believe you understand it. In fact it supports my view that obedience to God is the fruit/evidence of having been given the Spirit.

Also this scripture proves that obeying is the fruit of Christ being the author of ones Salvation !

 

[JLB]

So why you say I dont quote scripture ? Everything I bring to the table is based upon scripture. Just because you and i differ in our understanding of scripture, should not make you say I dont use scripture.

Ok, last time.

It’s not because you and I differ in understanding of scripture that I said you weren’t using scripture, it was the simple fact that you kept posting your opinion and tagging it with scripture, rather than actually posting the scripture.

Here is your post I was referring to.

Post number 122

The obeying of the truth is through the Spirit. 1 Pet 1:22
It's because of the Spirit they obeyed the Truth. Did you study that verse? It doesn't appear you did.

Is there a scripture in this post?

You started to use scripture in your posts after I called you several times. Then you started posting the actual scripture.


If you keep on with this plainly deceitful and divisive narrative I will be forced to remove you from the thread.


And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Hebrews 5:9


Does this verse mean to you that He saves people that don’t obey Him?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yet I dont believe you understand it. In fact it supports my view that obedience to God is the fruit/evidence of having been given the Spirit.

I agree that we obey Him because His Spirit enables us to obey Him.


Where you and I disagree is you believe and teach that we are born again, saved by a Sovereign act of the Spirit, before we hear the Gospel, some time during our life, then later on we are able to believe the Gospel.


I believe we are born again because we hear and believe the Gospel.

• whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



God loves the world and gave His Son as a sacrifice for the sins of all who will believe, not just some select few but for all who will believe.




JLB