Is the holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ?

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Isaiah 8:20- "To the law and the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Isaiah 28:13- "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little..."
John 5:39- "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have life: and they are they which testify of me."
Acts 17:11- "... in that they received the word with readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so"

Some questions to consider:

1) Did The father or The son ever talked with The Holy Spirit?
2) One in purpose; does this mean one in person?
3) How many gods do I have?
4) How can 3 gods be 1 god?
5) ARE THERE REALLY THREE "PERSONS" IN THE GODHEAD?
6) Is The Holy Spirit an independent intellectual being apart from the father and the son?
6) Mary was impregnated by The Holy Spirit ( "the third person of the Godhead" ), whose son is jesus?

A person is a being with independent emotion, will, and intellect.
If there is 3 persons in the godhead with the above qualities ( independent emotion, independent will, and independent intellect ) explain how they are one.

Deuteronomy 6:4- Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one lord.
A lord is a person ( one individual )THREE persons could have the same purpose, but how can THREE persons with the same purpose be one person?

God is invisible.
1 Timothy 1:17- Now to The King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise god, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

No man has ever seen God.
1 John 4:12- No man hath ever seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfect in us.

God is a spirit.
John 4:24- God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[glorydaz]

I definitely am not confusing the two. Jesus gave up His immortality,omniscience,and omnipotence and was born as a human knowing nothing. He lived as a human and died as a human and His soul/spirit slept unconsciously in the grave until His Father resurrected Him.Jesus was a complete person and not divided. It wasn't just the son of man humanity that died for us it was the Divine Son of God who died for us.

Oops...I can't even go any farther than this. Jesus was fully God and fully man. Your inability to recognize that fact has resulted in the error we see. Jesus did not "give up" his immortality...God doesn't cease to be God simply because He takes on human form. Jesus was from the beginning and He will be throughout eternity. He is the Alpha and the Omega...the creator of all things. Don't even try to lecture me about anything since you are so full of error on this one critical point. BTW...He raised Himself from the cross, because He is God. He was no longer saddled with human flesh, and was fully God...as He had been from the beginning.

Did Jesus ever lie?

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jesus spoke these words, just before He died. At His death, Jesus was glorified with the glory He'd had from the beginning...He was fully God without man's humanity at His death. The body that had been prepared for Him was no longer needed.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus' body had been prepared for a specific purpose.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

The moment Jesus gave up the ghost, He was straightway glorified in the Father. Jesus was fully God, no longer saddled with his humanity.

Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

He subdues all things to "Himself".

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

He reconciles all things unto "Himself." Why? Because He is God.

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz : ". BTW...He raised Himself from the cross"


Hi glorydaz

He did ?

The best knowledge we have are the scriptures. And the spirit of truth backs up the scriptures, or I should say establishes the scriptures.

Jesus was put in a tomb. And the Word of God does not say that he got himself up ! Nor does the scriptures tell us that he was raised from the cross. He was dead ! ! He was buried in a tomb ! !

His Father God , raised him from the dead . Romans 10:9 - Galatians 1:1 - Eph. 1:20 - Colossians2:12

And it is impossible for Jesus Christ to be fully God ! I Kings 8:27 - "But will God indeed dwell on the earth ? behold the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee "

A portion of God was put into Jesus the Christ. This portion is called the seed of the Father. This is why Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz : "Did Jesus ever lie?
John 2:19 wrote:
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"



Hi glorydaz

Jesus was not talking about his body ! The "temple" Jesus was talking about, was the Word !

Jesus was the Word, and he preached and taught the truth. They silenced him , by putting him to death. Before he was put to death, he was prophesying that in three days he would raise up the Word of truth (God) once again.

They perceived that he might be talking about his body. But Jesus was not talking about his body. He said he was talking about the "temple". In the temple, it is where the Word of God was read and taught.

In the NT we are now the temple of God. ( I Corinth. 3:17) Which means, that we have the Spirit of truth in us. When Jesus was here on earth, he was the temple of God. Now we are .

 

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The Holy Spirit is the omnipresence of God in the universe, not another entity (person) but God himself.

Is there a person without a spirit?

God is immortal and merciful, his spirit operates unselfishly outward in the service of mankind. Man is mortal and unkind, his spirit works selfishly inward for his own gratification. 1 Corinthians 2:10-11:- For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

A QUICK QUESTION: Is the Spirit of God a part of God or apart from God?

Every living being (mortal or immortal) have a spirit as a part of their person. ( our Creator is no different ). The Spirit of The Creator is: his hand in our lives, his voice in our ears, the shoulder we cry on, the back that carries us along the pathway of truth. Our Creator is a spirit, "THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH."

If The Holy Spirit was a "person" ( an independent being; apart from The Father and The Son ) how could Jesus be the son of "God The Father?"
Matthew 1:18- Mary "was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit"

SOME OTHER QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER: Is The Holy Spirit the spirit of Christ? Does Christ have a spirit? Is the spirit of Christ different from the spirit of "God The Father?"

John 14:23- If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jesus was speaking concerning The Holy Spirit but notice the plural form of pronouns that he used.

How does The Father and The Son abide with us?- Through The Holy Spirit for sure.


Matthew 18:20- For where two or three are gather together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Christ is with us through his spirit, The Holy Spirit.
Unlike no one else in the universe, Christ and his father share the same spirit

Does the Old Testament support the teaching of the trinity?

Zechariah 6:12-13- And speak unto him , saying, thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, behold this man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall build the temple of the LORD: even he shall build the temple of the LORD: and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both ( not three but two ).

Compare this verse from Revelation chapter 3:5 - He who overcomes will, like them be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my father and his angels. ( Where is the Holy Spirit?) The Holy Spirit is not a "third person" in the Godhead but the actual omnipresence of The Father and The Son in the universe.

Christ nor his father never talk to The Holy Spirit. If Christ speak to The Holy Spirit he would be speaking to himself. If The Father speak to The Holy Spirit he would be speaking to himself. The Father spoke to The Son several times and The Son spoke to The Father several times: Hebrew 1:5,8- "... You are my son this day I have begotten you..., Thy throne, O God, is everlasting: a sceptre of righteousness..." Psalm 110:1- "sit on my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool" Matthew 27:46- "... Jesus cried out with a loud voice, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 26:39- ... O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Who created the universe?

Is God The Father just a lazy being, who sit and give orders to The Son and the "third person" (The Holy Spirit), and then makes claims that he did when he did not. Is our God a liar? Roman 3:4- ... let God be true and every man a liar...

According to trinitarians, if The Holy Spirit is an independent living being, a "person," God The Father would be a liar to say he and Christ have created all things because the scriptures says the Spirit of God created all things.

Genesis 1:2- and the Spirit of God move upon the face of the deep, Psalm 104: 30- Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created and thou renewest the face of the earth. Job 26:13- By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hands formed the crooked serpent. Job 33:4 - The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Christ and his father share the same spirit ( The Holy Spirit ), thus making them one, not only in purpose, but as creator, Lord, and savior. ( Deut.6:4- Hear, O Israel: the LORD, our God is one Lord. Isa. 43:3,11- For I am the LORD your God, The Holy one of Israel, your savior... and beside me there is no savior. Isa. 44:8- ... is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. )

The Spirit of God is the hand of God.
Man uses his hands to do his work but God uses his Spirit to perform the most wonderful work of grace in the lives of mankind. Ezekiel 3:14- So The Spirit lifted me up and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heart of my spirit; but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me. Luke 11:20- But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come to you.

 

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"glorydaz"

Jesus was fully God and fully man.

Jesus was 100% man while he was on earth.

 

[glorydaz]

"glorydaz"

Jesus was fully God and fully man.

Jesus was 100% man while he was on earth.

There's your error in a nutshell.
Here's the Father speaking of the Son...."Thy throne, O God".
God calls Him God...that should be good enough for any man.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

God with us....

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

All the fulness of the Godhead...bodily....

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

It's very important to your salvation for you to understand that Jesus was both divine and human.
That is an essential...

 

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Are you saying that God died? God is immortal God can't die. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God. And the Word became flesh (man) and dwelt among us..."

Is Mary the mother of God?

I did not say Jesus was never God.

 

[glorydaz]

Are you saying that God died? God is immortal God can't die. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God. And the Word became flesh (man) and dwelt among us..."

Is Mary the mother of God?

I did not say Jesus was never God.

Then you agree that Jesus was God and man?

 

[faithtransforms]

Someone has probably already said this, but I am not about to read all ten pages of this thread, lol!

Romans 8:9 --

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

IMO, this verse is equating the Holy Spirit and the Spirt of Christ as being the same thing.

 

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glorydaz wrote:

Then you agree that Jesus was God and man?

Jesus was not God while he was on earth.

 

[SonByAdoption]

There is only one God and Jesus is God."...was manifest in the flesh..."1Tim3:16

Jesus could voluntarily give up his immortality and be manifest in the flesh.His Father could not give up His immortality and be manifest in the flesh.1Tim6:15,16 That's two Divine beings. trinitarian's god is so selfish because any three of them could of gone but they sent the son who was nobody's son because the trinitarians god is role-playing. I thank God for the truth that Christ is the true literal real Son of the Father and He loved His Son more than life itself and if it was possible for the Father to come He would have gladly sacrificed Himself for us rather than give the world His only Born Son

Speaking of the Son...notice His names?"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given...and his name shall be called...Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father..."Isa9:6Jesus is...the mighty God, the everlasting Father...come in the flesh.

"A Son is given"What is His name and what is His Son's name"Pro30:4 O.T. Jews believed that God had literal Son that Helped Him create the world.Jesus was already God's only Born Son before His Father gave Him to the world.1st John 4:9
"Mighty God"Jesus is my Mighty God but He is not His own Mighty God.Joshua5:15,16
"Everlasting FatherJesus was never His own Everlasting Father nor was He a part of His Father or the same substance of Him.He's been a separate Divine being ever since His Birth From His Father in eternity.The Jews had two fathers Abraham and Christ's Father.We have two fathers Jesus and His Father."And Jesus says, "I am here with the sons and daughters God has given me."Heb2:13 God's Word Translation. The term "everlasting" having no end can not be applied to Jesus until after His resurrection. Many false prophets will tell you that Jesus never truly died or was ever unconsciously sleeping in the grave but Jesus rebukes this false trinitarian teaching with His own testimony. "I am he that liveth, and was dead[ceased to exist]; and, behold, I am alive for evermore[everlasting]"Rev1:18

"Jesus is the great I AM...come in the flesh.""Jesus said...Before Abraham was, I am.""...Yahweh appeared to Abram..."I am the Almighty God...""And God said unto Moses, I AM "Jon8:58,Gen17:1,Ex3:14

Before we go over these OT verses that you have presented I'd like us to keep some N.T. verses in mind.

"No man has seen God at anytime..."You have never heard His voice nor seen His form,"...dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see... " "God's only[BORN] Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known"

1Jon1:12KJV,Jon5:37NIV,1Tim6:16KJV,and Jon1:18 God's Word Translation

You say that because Jesus is called "The Great I Am" than there must be trinity but the Bible is clear that One Great I Am is God's Son and can be seen but the other Great I Am The Father has never been Seen. So Therefore there must be Two Great I ams so the Yahweh who appeared unto Abraham and ate with Him must be God's Son because the Father has never been seen.

Was it the Father who appeared to Moses in the burning bush?"The angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. ...""...Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look at God."Exodus 3:2,6 Angel means Messenger. Just because Christ is the Messenger of His Father does not make Him a created being.God's Only Born Son Has the power to use Yahweh's name according to Exodus 23:21,22. The name of Yahweh is The Son's" by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they[the created angels]Hebrews 1:4 The J.W Jesus could never inherit anything from God because only literal son can inherit nor can a created angel us the name of Yahweh. a trinitarian Jesus could never inherit anything from God because he is God's Son only in title only and only literal sons can inherit.

So because One Great I Am can be seen and is the Divine Messenger and Only Born Son of the other Great I Am who dwells behind the unapproachable light in heaven and has never been seen by man after the fall than there must be Two Great I Ams and the trinity is just not biblical.

"God calls Jesus God. They are the same God."But to the Son he said, Your throne, O God..."

As I have already proven from the scriptures. One God could be manifested in the flesh and the other God could not. One God could be seen and the Other God could not. One God is the Divine Messenger and the Other God sends the Divine Messenger. One God is the Father and the other God is His Only Born Son and Hebrews 1:8 the Father definitely is proclaiming that His Only Born Son is just as Divine as Himself but in His very next breath He says.Son I am Your God in Hebrews 1:9 One God is God of the other one. That makes two Divine beings. Even in heaven Jesus proudly and unashamedly proclaims .The Father is My God and "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God"Rev3:12

Anytime a J.W. tells you because The Father is the God of Christ that means that Christ is a created being ask him. Is your God so lacking of power that He can only be God of created beings? The Truth is God and His Son who He begot in eternity is equal to Him in nature and that's why He is rightfully called God and rightfully worshiped even though He is not His own God because He worships the Father who worships no one. The Son of God is rightfully worshiped.

 

[Mysteryman]

Someone has probably already said this, but I am not about to read all ten pages of this thread, lol!

Romans 8:9 --

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

IMO, this verse is equating the Holy Spirit and the Spirt of Christ as being the same thing.

Hi

Your words suggest that you are guessing.

And the truth is, that the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are not the same. The Spirit of Christ is the same as "the Spirit of his Son". The Holy Spirit is God and Father. The Spirit of Christ is the seed of the Father. Jesus the Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Mysteryman]

God is not a God of confusion. However, our bible translations cause confusion, as well as those who read these bible translations. Many have a preconceived notion before they even read their bibles.

When God made everything, he was specific about everything. Our translations become confusing, because they use similar words without specific understanding behind those words. Such is the case with the words = holy spirit and then caps -- Holy Spirit.

When God made an apple, he didn't want anyone to think that it was an orange, or a pear. And when God's Word states that -- God is Spirit, the same holds true. God is not an apple nor is he a human being.

The words -- Holy Spirit, simply means pure Spirit. Saying God is Spirit, is a way for God to seperate himself from mankind. Spirit can not be seen with one's physical eyes.

The word -- God -- is a title. Saying that God is the Holy Spirit, is saying that he is the pure Spirit.

The Word tells us that there is only one true God. But God himself calls the adversary of God, the god of this world. Simply by using a title to define authority.

Christ is the only begotten Son of God. The Spirit of Christ, is simply the Spirit of his Son. We as christians have the Spirit of his Son in our hearts, and this is why we cry Abba Father.

We do not have the Holy Spirit in our hearts, and the Word never tells us that we do. The gift of the Holy Spirit is upon, and allows a christian to operate the nine manifestations of the Spirit. < The "Spirit" being God himself.

This is why at time the gift is not capitalized ( holy spirit ). It is because it is just a portion of what God is -- Holy Spirit.

The Spirit of his Son, is Christ, which is the Spirit of or from God > The Holy Spirit

Jesus the Christ is the seed Son of God - The Holy Spirit

Always keep in mind that the word "God" is a title. We as Christians are sons of God, because we have the Spirit of his Son in our hearts. Just because we have the Spirit of his Son in us, which is Christ in us, this does not make us God , nor a God. We simply are a Son of God.

When King David had a son, his son was not a King, just because he was the son of a king. King David had more than one son, but it was Solomon who eventually became King, because that was the will of God.

The word "King" is a title, just as the word "God" is a title. Having a title does not make your son automatically carry that title as well. Only one of King David's sons became King. King David had the Spirit of God upon him, and again having the Spirit of God upon you, does not make you God. Prophets of God have the Spirit of God upon them. Christians who receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit have the gift of the holy spirit upon them. This allows them to be able to manifest the nine manifestations of the Spirit. A Prophet speaks for God, that which God tells him.

A Christian speaks about God, in words of comfort, exhortation and edification. This only can be done after one is baptized with the gift of the Holy Spirit upon them. In fact, the Word tells us, that you can not call Jesus Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. This means that you must be baptized with the Holy Spirit in order that you can call Jesus Lord. Everyone else is just mouthing by their own mind , calling Jesus Lord. And Jesus will say I never knew you.

You can not be a son of God, unless God makes you a son of God, by him putting the Spirit of his Son into your hearts. You then have the Spirit of Christ in you. You would then be called a chosen vessel.

The gift of holy spirit is upon you , as a baptized Christian

And the Spirit of his Son in your hearts, is in you as a Christian, and remains with you, and never leaves you.

Bless - MM

 

[SonByAdoption]

Some questions to consider:"1) Did The father or The son ever talked with The Holy Spirit?"

No they have not.Nor have they seen any other Divine beings than themselves nor do they permit us to worship any other gods whether what name we give them the holy spirit or buda or confucius or allah or otherwise.

"2) One in purpose; does this mean one in person?"

One was begotten in eternity and given Self Existence.The other Divine being gave Him the self existence. John 3:16 and John 5:26

3) How many gods do I have?

I have two Gods. I worship the God of Thomas Jon 20:28 and the God of Jesus Jon 20:17

4) How can 3 gods be 1 god?

No they can not. The Father and His only Born Son are both Gods of creation but the Father is also the God of His Divine Son so thats why the Bible calls the Father the One God.

5) ARE THERE REALLY THREE "PERSONS" IN THE GODHEAD?

There are two Divine beings in the universe equal in nature but not equal in age. One of these Divine beings because One was born from the other One but not only is He Father of the Other One He is God of the other One."The head of Christ is God"1st Cor 11:3Biblical Godhead.

6) Is The Holy Spirit an independent intellectual being apart from the father and the son?

We have a body and a spirit/mind and we were made in our Father's image who has a body and a mind and we were also made in Christ's image who has a body and a mind. So no people who say that the Father's mind is a separate intellectual being than the Father are worshiping and idol in their heart

6) Mary was impregnated by The Holy Spirit ( "the third person of the Godhead" ), whose son is jesus?

Jesus always said that the Father alone was His Father and Jesus had the Holy Spirit but He always said the Father in me doeth the works. Jesus never talked like a trinitarian gentile. Maybe He was a Jew who believed the Bible that One God and One Son created everything created."What is His name and what is His Son's Name surely you know"Proverbs 30:4

"Deuteronomy 6:4- Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one lord.
A lord is a person ( one individual )THREE persons could have the same purpose, but how can THREE persons with the same purpose be one person?"

Because the Father is the One God of the Bible does not make Jesus a created being. He is the true literal Son of the One God and He was born in eternity equal to the Father.

"God is invisible."1 Timothy 1:17- Now to The King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise god, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Be careful my friend. God the Father is not some phantom who cannot be seen. He's not some ghost or some gas or air. God the Father has a real body and He sits on a real throne in a real place called heaven.You quoted 1st Timothy to prove that God is invisible. Let's also look at 1st Timothy to see why the bible says that He is invisible because."dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see:"1st Timothy 6:16

"No man has ever seen God."

When the Bible says that No One has seen God it does not include Adam and Eve who were sinless and spent the 1st Sabbath walking and talking with God. Also when the Bible says that no man has seen God it does not include Enoch,Elijah who went to heaven without seeing death and Moses who was resurrected and taken to heaven.Jude9

"God is a spirit."

The Fact that the Bible calls God a spirit does not mean that He doesn't have a body.So are angels called spirits but many people have seen them. And the Bible says that Jesus was raised a life giving spirit but we know that He was resurrected with His body.and besides Adam was created in the image of God like a little clay model of the original Divine proof that God has a body.

 

[change]

Your words suggest that you are guessing.

Mysteryman wrote:

And the truth is, that the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are not the same. The Spirit of Christ is the same as "the Spirit of his Son". The Holy Spirit is God and Father. The Spirit of Christ is the seed of the Father. Jesus the Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

How did you come to this conclusion?

 

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SonByAdoption

The Fact that the Bible calls God a spirit does not mean that He doesn't have a body.So are angels called spirits but many people have seen them. And the Bible says that Jesus was raised a life giving spirit but we know that He was resurrected with His body.and besides Adam was created in the image of God like a little clay model of the original Divine proof that God has a body.

"Created in the image of God" does not mean that we look like God (physically), but having his attitude and attributes. Tiger wood's image was destroyed by his behavior and the media. This does not mean that his body was destroyed.

Ps - Adam and Eve did not see God. The voice of God is what was walking with them.

 

[jasoncran]

god is a spirit for they that believe in must worship him in spirit and in truth. if he as a physical body how can he be omnipresent?

 

[faithtransforms]

god is a spirit for they that believe in must worship him in spirit and in truth. if he as a physical body how can he be omnipresent?

I don't believe God has any kind of physical body, but there is a such thing as a spiritual body. He is not formless. He walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the garden.

And OT prophets had visions of Him, as well as Moses. He is a spirit, but he does have a form.

 

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I, totally, agree with you jasoncran.