isreal and the trib and millenium

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ok. did i say that? NO , so will judas isachariot be in heaven? he died in sin too? what about all them that deny the lord. unbelief is that. and in the days of the torah there was no concept of eternal security. solomon walked away from the lord and served false gods. dont know if he repented.

you sir are promoting universalism.
 
jasoncran said:
ok. did i say that? NO , so will judas isachariot be in heaven? he died in sin too? what about all them that deny the lord. unbelief is that. and in the days of the torah there was no concept of eternal security. solomon walked away from the lord and served false gods. dont know if he repented.

you sir are promoting universalism.
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I believe that every vessel of dishonor will be 'universally' destroyed in the Lake of Fire for ever and EVER and you know it! That destruction is also endless and eternal.
 
smaller said:
I believe that every vessel of dishonor will be 'universally' destroyed in the Lake of Fire for ever and EVER and you know it! That destruction is also endless and eternal.
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really what about them jews that died in unbelief then? they didnt circumise their kids, why? because they never repented. the act of circumision is the means which god judges you worthy of him. its an outward mark of his people. they didnt do that. that means a lot.

joshua circumcised them when they entered the promised land as sign of redication unto the lord. this is a sign of clear rebellion. i would have to get into ramban or ask jeff on this but i know he would agree with me on them that didnt enter as being lost.
 
sorry, it means that the father and mother didnt care for the rearing of the child in the torah. moses did the same and had to do that act himself, sorry, if you are correct then judas is in heaven too, he died in unbelief too and was a jew.

8 days after birth that was done by the levites and latter the rabbis to be a dedication of the circumised, yes it was with faith, but the parents reared that boy and girl up into the torah., bar an bat mitzvhas were done then too. not as we see them today but it was done.
 
jasoncran said:
sorry, it means that the father and mother didnt care for the rearing of the child in the torah. moses did the same and had to do that act himself, sorry, if you are correct then judas is in heaven too, he died in unbelief too and was a jew.
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We both can read that Judas repented as well. Some just refuse to see the fact nor honor the fact, even when same is in writing.
 
im sorry, why then would jesus KNOWING that say and the prophets say that he was better not born and let another man take his bishopric? a repented man doesnt commit suicide. he could have went to the lord or the church and repented. he commited suicide. i know of a few that believe that he repented. jesus said it was better that he was never born.
 
jasoncran said:
im sorry, why then would jesus KNOWING that say and the prophets say that he was better not born and let another man take his bishopric? a repented man doesnt commit suicide. he could have went to the lord or the church and repented. he commited suicide. i know of a few that believe that he repented. jesus said it was better that he was never born.
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Matthew 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
 
smaller said:
Matthew 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
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You say that people who reject Jesus go to heaven. That's downright anti-Christian. Then you slur Moses, one of history's greatest men of faith, by saying he died for unbelief. Now you say Judas, a son of perdition whom Jesus says was lost, repented. Does the blasphemy from you never end?

In Matthew 27:3, the KJV translated a Greek word to "repented himself". It doesn't mean he repented of his sins. It means he regretted his actions (because of the outcome). Try a modern translation, as you don't understand KJV vocabulary. This is a different Greek word than the one used when the Jesus teaches repentance. And, even then, you must repent to God, not just repent.
 
Hammer said:
You say that people who reject Jesus go to heaven.
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Every person of us rejects various forms of Jesus regardless. You for example would probably not be fond of the Mormon Jesus or the Jehovah Witness Jesus.

How many 'Jesus's' do you think there are in this world? Many false ones, that's a certainty.

That's downright anti-Christian.
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Millions of Jews lived before the time of Jesus. They believed in the same God that you and I do. There is only One God. They had the same Gospel presented to them as we have.

Then you slur Moses, one of history's greatest men of faith, by saying he died for unbelief.
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I just happen to know my text a little better than some. Moses did not enter the Promised Land. Hebrews tells us that all who did not enter the Promised Land died of UNbelief. Moses did not enter. Do the math.

Did I say God in Christ did not save Moses. Uh, no. That is only what you thought you heard in your own ears.
Now you say Judas, a son of perdition whom Jesus says was lost, repented. Does the blasphemy from you never end?
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I cited a scripture that says Judas repented. Your inability to read or to mitigate the fact of that written matter is not my issue. I'm sure you can find any translation that will rewrite it to suit your slant.

s
 
smaller said:
Every person of us rejects various forms of Jesus regardless. You for example would probably not be fond of the Mormon Jesus or the Jehovah Witness Jesus.

How many 'Jesus's' do you think there are in this world? Many false ones, that's a certainty.



Millions of Jews lived before the time of Jesus. They believed in the same God that you and I do. There is only One God. They had the same Gospel presented to them as we have.



I just happen to know my text a little better than some. Moses did not enter the Promised Land. Hebrews tells us that all who did not enter the Promised Land died of UNbelief. Moses did not enter. Do the math.

Did I say God in Christ did not save Moses. Uh, no. That is only what you thought you heard in your own ears.


I cited a scripture that says Judas repented. Your inability to read or to mitigate the fact of that written matter is not my issue. I'm sure you can find any translation that will rewrite it to suit your slant.

s
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smaller, Please dont play word games for just for the arguement....

Every person of us rejects various forms of Jesus regardless. You for example would probably not be fond of the Mormon Jesus or the Jehovah Witness Jesus.
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i was raised a jw, they arent well very christlike in doctrine. i used to read the nwt to the congreation. they dont believe in your idea of isreal, smaller they consider there gentile/jew leadership to be that 144k that only gets to heaven
 
smaller said:
Why are you picking on me? You know full well that there are numerous forms of Jesus promoted in this world.

s
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Strawman much? Did i say there were not numerous forms of Jesus promoted in this world? No i did not.
smaller, Please dont play word games for just for the arguement....
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Once and only once again..Do not play word games just for the arguement.
 
jasoncran said:
i was raised a jw, they arent well very christlike in doctrine. i used to read the nwt to the congreation. they dont believe in your idea of isreal, smaller they consider there gentile/jew leadership to be that 144k that only gets to heaven
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Zionism wasn't a popular doctrine until after 1948. So, Christian denominations and cults which predate 1948 don't have Zionist doctrines unless they added those later, which is rare. I actually don't know of a single denomination that has Zionism in their doctrinal statement. But, many denominations and cults have doctrinal statements that contradict Zionism, because they formulated relevant doctrines before 1948. The JW is one of those. The traditional (and biblical) view in Christianity is that the church is Israel.

Zionism is most popular with young churches and denominations.
 
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