Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[FreeGrace]

Do you believe that someone who leaves the faith still retains eternal life? I believe those who have the life will never perish.

Just to be clear, then, do you believe that those who have received eternal life will never perish? It seems you're trying to skirt the question.

You keep running to 1 Jn 5:12, as if that somehow gets your view off the hook in not believing that every recipient of eternal life will never perish. This is just trying to pit one verse against another, in order to justify a view that contradicts the clear promise of Jesus in Jn 10:28.

Is your view, just to be clear, that some recipients of eternal life may perish? Please answer with a simple "yes" or "no". That's all I am interested in.

 

[Nathan]

Just to be clear, then, do you believe that those who have received eternal life will never perish? It seems you're trying to skirt the question.

You keep running to 1 Jn 5:12, as if that somehow gets your view off the hook in not believing that every recipient of eternal life will never perish. This is just trying to pit one verse against another, in order to justify a view that contradicts the clear promise of Jesus in Jn 10:28.

Is your view, just to be clear, that some recipients of eternal life may perish? Please answer with a simple "yes" or "no". That's all I am interested in.

No skirting. Life is in Christ alone. We 'receive' this life when we are in Christ. If we leave Christ, then we leave the life.

Yes, some people who have 'tasted' of the heavenly gift will perish because they forsake the life that is only in Christ.

Do you believe that someone who leaves the faith, who forsakes Christ still has life?

 

[FreeGrace]

No skirting. Life is in Christ alone.

Oh what basis is your belief that one who is IN CHRIST can ever become OUT of Him?? What verse specifically teaches this?

We 'receive' this life when we are in Christ. If we leave Christ, then we leave the life.

This is a direct contradiction of what Jesus promised. If this view were correct, Jesus would have included this CONDITION in His promise.

It would look something like this:
I give them eternal life, an AS LONG AS THEY STAY IN ME, they will never perish.

Do you really not see your problem here?

Yes, some people who have 'tasted' of the heavenly gift will perish because they forsake the life that is only in Christ.

That would mean Jesus' promise isn't true, then. I'll never accept such an idea.

Do you believe that someone who leaves the faith, who forsakes Christ still has life?

I believe what Jesus promised in John 10:28. He gives believers eternal life, and they will never perish. No conditions on recipients.

The view that salvation can be lost places ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS on Jesus' promise. Which He never did.

How can one be comfortable when their view is in direct contraction with the promise of Jesus?

 

[Gregg T]

I was presenting what the writer said - very specifically - and was asking a question based on it.

I would be glad to discuss your three points. However, I'm not going to try to convince you of anything. Your free to believe or not.

Your first point is definitely one that is hard to understand, but is told through the NT - even giving examples of people who did so in the OT.

The parable of the sower is probably the most succinct example we have.

Luke 8:13 (ESV) 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

In that parable, or in context of it, what indicates to you that the seed falling on the rock represented someone who was saved? If you can demonstrate this, then I will consider your example as legitimately supporting your case.

What I am hoping for from you is that you will deconstruct your own arguement/case, so that I may consider each individual point, one at a time. I want to see the individual point with which you have formed your understanding of this matter.

 

[Nathan]

Oh what basis is your belief that one who is IN CHRIST can ever become OUT of Him?? What verse specifically teaches this?


This is a direct contradiction of what Jesus promised. If this view were correct, Jesus would have included this CONDITION in His promise.

It would look something like this:
I give them eternal life, an AS LONG AS THEY STAY IN ME, they will never perish.

Do you really not see your problem here?


That would mean Jesus' promise isn't true, then. I'll never accept such an idea.


I believe what Jesus promised in John 10:28. He gives believers eternal life, and they will never perish. No conditions on recipients.

The view that salvation can be lost places ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS on Jesus' promise. Which He never did.

How can one be comfortable when their view is in direct contraction with the promise of Jesus?

Your slander is of no offense to me.

Gal 5:2-4
Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Do you believe you received eternal life because you believed?

 

[Nathan]

In that parable, or in context of it, what indicates to you that the seed falling on the rock represented someone who was saved? If you can demonstrate this, then I will consider your example as legitimately supporting your case.

What I am hoping for from you is that you will deconstruct your own arguement/case, so that I may consider each individual point, one at a time. I want to see the individual point with which you have formed your understanding of this matter.

We know that the seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

We know that apart from God, there is no 'life' in a person.
Jhn 6:53
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

We know that Jesus was the 'Word of God' and life is in Him.
Jhn 1:1,4,12
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

We know that whoever believes in Him will be saved.
Jhn 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

We know that the 'rocky' ones did receive and believe.
Luk 8:13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

So, Jesus states clearly that they "receive it" and "believed for a while". We know that this is true belief(if we for some reason doubted Jesus' word) because they had 'life'. However, the most clear and undeniable fact is, Jesus said they received and believed - Jesus also stated that whoever receives and believes has eternal life. We either have to believe Jesus was speaking the truth, or believe He was not.

We can move on from here to your next point if you like. I am in no rush though.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Oh what basis is your belief that one who is IN CHRIST can ever become OUT of Him?? What verse specifically teaches this?

This is a direct contradiction of what Jesus promised. If this view were correct, Jesus would have included this CONDITION in His promise.

It would look something like this:
I give them eternal life, an AS LONG AS THEY STAY IN ME, they will never perish.

Do you really not see your problem here?"

Your slander is of no offense to me.

Please point me to any "slander" I've directed your way.

What I posted is true.

What is also true is that we are at loggerheads.

I believe that all recipients of eternal life will never perish, because that is what Jesus taught.

You have admitted that you believe something else than what Jesus promised.

There is nothing else to discuss.

Do you believe you received eternal life because you believed?

I believe what Jesus said about this, which answers your question.

John 5:24-25 - "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. "

Those who believe HAVE eternal life. And they WILL NOT BE condemned, because they HAVE CROSSED OVER from death to life.

 

[Nathan]

Please point me to any "slander" I've directed your way.

ok

You have admitted that you believe something else than what Jesus promised.

That is slander. I never admitted that I believe something else than what Jesus promised.

I believe what Jesus said about this, which answers your question.

John 5:24-25 - "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. "

Those who believe HAVE eternal life. And they WILL NOT BE condemned, because they HAVE CROSSED OVER from death to life.

That actually does not answer my question. But that's ok. Your free not to answer it.

I believe that Jesus is speaking the truth also. Whoever believes in Him who sent Christ has eternal life.

What I do not see is that Jesus said a person who once believed, but no longer believes, has eternal life. Could you share that passage with me?

 

[GodsGrace]

In a general sense. But every believer in Christ should know that when one comes to faith in Christ, they are BORN AGAIN, REGENERATED. And become a child of God. This is quite different than just being created by Him.

The Bible teaches the permanent relationship between God the Father and His spiritually born children.


OK, children of God. Sons of God. Where does that leave the females?


Where does the Bible support this opinion?

Do you believe that some recipients of eternal life will perish?


This is irrelevant to the promise of Jesus. He said recipients of eternal life will never perish. Do you believe that, or do you believe that some recipients may perish?

I find it difficult to speak to you FreeGrace.

Some here are much better at it and I admire them for it.
I'm very busy and fear this will be my last communication with you.
Just quick:

1. Thanks for explaining what born again is. It was very generous of you.

2. Thanks for explaining that being created is different than being a son.
You see... when you go back to basics instead of addressing my points. we could get NO WHERE fast.
I'm trying to go two steps forward, YOU are going 3 steps back...

3. The bible DOES NOT teach a permanent relationship. If the Prodigal son had never gone back, that would have been THE END of the relationship between him and his father. He'd already received his inheritance, NOTHING further was forthcoming.

4. Where does that leave the females? ARE YOU SERIOUSLY ASKING THIS??

5. We only have eternal life IN CHRIST. NOT outside of Christ.

 

[Gregg T]

We know that the seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

We know that apart from God, there is no 'life' in a person.
Jhn 6:53
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

We know that Jesus was the 'Word of God' and life is in Him.
Jhn 1:1,4,12
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

We know that whoever believes in Him will be saved.
Jhn 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

We know that the 'rocky' ones did receive and believe.
Luk 8:13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

So, Jesus states clearly that they "receive it" and "believed for a while". We know that this is true belief(if we for some reason doubted Jesus' word) because they had 'life'. However, the most clear and undeniable fact is, Jesus said they received and believed - Jesus also stated that whoever receives and believes has eternal life. We either have to believe Jesus was speaking the truth, or believe He was not.

We can move on from here to your next point if you like. I am in no rush though.

A couple of things in that parable that indicate this one never believed so as to be saved at any point.

Luk 8:6 And other fell on the rock; and growing, it dried up because of not having moisture.
Luk 8:13 And those on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the Word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a time, and in time of trial draw back.

Having no root, may indicate that it (the word of God) was never united with something (the rock or rocky soil) so as to be established in it. This seedling (the word of God) had an apparent and potential relationship only.

The text of Lk: 8:13 says that the rock/rocky soil (not the seedling) believed during a period of time (kairós: a season, a period of opportunity), a period of time when the word of God was present, but the result of that kind of joy and belief resulted in drawing back, a returning to itself having never been united with the seedling. The seedling, what the word of God became for an opportune season, dried up never taking root in the rock. The rock/rocky soil withdrew to its former self, no longer having a seedling upon it. I submit the rock never was united with the word of God, never believed to have had a relationship with the sower of the seed, and therefor was never saved.

Your use of this element in a parable does not make a strong or credible case for your position. Please indicate if we can agree on this, before moving to another point.

 

[Nathan]

A couple of things in that parable that indicate this one never believed so as to be saved at any point.

Luk 8:6 And other fell on the rock; and growing, it dried up because of not having moisture.
Luk 8:13 And those on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the Word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a time, and in time of trial draw back.

Having no root, may indicate that it (the word of God) was never united with something (the rock or rocky soil) so as to be established in it. This seedling (the word of God) had an apparent and potential relationship only.

The text of Lk: 8:13 says that the rock/rocky soil (not the seedling) believed during a period of time (kairós: a season, a period of opportunity), a period of time when the word of God was present, but the result of that kind of joy and belief resulted in drawing back, a returning to itself having never been united with the seedling. The seedling, what the word of God became for an opportune season, dried up never taking root in the rock. The rock/rocky soil withdrew to its former self, no longer having a seedling upon it. I submit the rock never was united with the word of God, never believed to have had a relationship with the sower of the seed, and therefor was never saved.

Your use of this element in a parable does not make a strong or credible case for your position. Please indicate if we can agree on this, before moving to another point.

We cannot agree on this. If we look at all of the accounts, we find that "no root" in Luke is saying that the root was not very deep - not that it was non-existent. The root was not deep enough to sustain it in the heat, drawing moisture from down below.

We know the 'seed' brought forth life because it 'sprung up', or as your translation puts it 'growing'. A seed does not grow if there is no life. I have planted many seeds in my years of gardening that actually had no life. They never grew a bit. We find from all accounts that the seed did start to grow. The parable is very specific, seed was sown, and life came forth from that seed - even if it was for just a short period of time.

We know that the ones sown on the path never had life. They never believed, and so could not be saved. Jesus contrasted them with the next group on rocky ground who do believe. The ones who believe do not draw back because of the joy and belief - rather, they fall away because of the times of testing.

Luk 8:12-13
The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

Let me ask you this, how long does a person have to believe before they are saved?

Jesus specifically said they believed. Is there ever a time when Jesus said that someone who believes is not saved?

If you can show me a time period a person has to believe, and a time where someone receives the word of God, believes it, and is not saved - then we can move on to another form for understanding your first point.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"You have admitted that you believe something else than what Jesus promised."

That is slander. I never admitted that I believe something else than what Jesus promised.

What you admitted to is DIFFERENT than what Jesus promised. Jesus' promise is that those He gives eternal life (they are recipients of eternal life) will never perish.

You've indicated the exception of those recipients who became "out of Christ" will perish. Jesus made no such condition.

Then, I answered:
"I believe what Jesus said about this, which answers your question.

John 5:24-25 - "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. "

Those who believe HAVE eternal life. And they WILL NOT BE condemned, because they HAVE CROSSED OVER from death to life."
That actually does not answer my question.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it does. Clearly. Everyone who receives the gift of eternal life will never perish. That's Jesus' promise.

I believe that Jesus is speaking the truth also. Whoever believes in Him who sent Christ has eternal life.

OK. He also promised that everyone He gives eternal life will never perish. Is that your belief??

What I do not see is that Jesus said a person who once believed, but no longer believes, has eternal life.

So, even though Jesus said those He gives eternal life will never perish, it seems your belief is that those who receive eternal life who later quit believing will perish. Is that your belief? Yes or no.

What verse says that ceasing to believe results in ceasing to be saved?

Could you share that passage with me?

The clear message that EVERYONE He gives eternal life will never perish. Jn 10:28

If your conditions were true, then Jesus would have said so in v.28. But He didn't. As we all know.

 

[FreeGrace]

I find it difficult to speak to you FreeGrace.

I am sorry for your difficulty.

Some here are much better at it and I admire them for it.
I'm very busy and fear this will be my last communication with you.
Just quick:

1. Thanks for explaining what born again is. It was very generous of you.

You're welcome.

2. Thanks for explaining that being created is different than being a son.

You're welcome.

You see... when you go back to basics instead of addressing my points. we could get NO WHERE fast.

Here's the deal; your questions require me to "go back to basics".

I'm trying to go two steps forward, YOU are going 3 steps back...

OK, let's just get to the final issue; do you believe that every recipient of eternal life will never perish, as Jesus promised, or do you believe that some who received eternal life from Jesus may perish?

That's as BASIC as it gets. Just lay all your cards on the table.

3. The bible DOES NOT teach a permanent relationship.

How can that be? I see denial here. Even when the prodigal mused about being demoted from sonship, Jesus never allowed that discussion to go forward when the son came back to the father and confessed his sin.

And how in the world could anyone say the Father-son relationship isn't permanent?? Can anyone change their birth parents? Of course not. That isn't rational.

If the Prodigal son had never gone back, that would have been THE END of the relationship between him and his father.

No, it would have been END of fellowship between father and son. Can your physical birth relationship with your parents be changed or undone? Of course not.

4. Where does that leave the females? ARE YOU SERIOUSLY ASKING THIS??

Of course not. ;)

5. We only have eternal life IN CHRIST. NOT outside of Christ.

Does the Bible EVER describe anyone who has been IN HIM changed to being outside of Him.

btw, to leave/forsake Christ is far different than to be OUT of Christ. Different words, and different meanings.

To be "in Him" includes all that we learn from Eph 1:13,14. We are marked in Him with a seal. And our inheritance is guaranteed for the day of redemption. I cannot imagine how anyone cannot see eternal security in that.

 

[Nathan]

I have answered your questions, if you choose not to answer mine that's fine. When you do, please show me where Jesus said a person who once believed, but no longer believes, has eternal life. I have never found a verse that stated that.

1Pe 1:6-9
In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

It is a guarantee that our faith will be tested. If it is found to be true, then the outcome of it is the salvation of our souls.

I have never seen a passage state we can leave the faith and still be rewarded with salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

I have answered your questions, if you choose not to answer mine that's fine.

Of course I have. What Jesus said answers all your questions.

When you do, please show me where Jesus said a person who once believed, but no longer believes, has eternal life.

Why would He have to say exactly what and how you demand it?

What He said answers your concern. ALL who receive eternal life will never perish. The belief that some who receive eternal life will perish is simply unbiblical, and goes DIRECTLY against what Jesus said in John 10:28.

I have never seen a passage state we can leave the faith and still be rewarded with salvation.

Primarily because salvation is NOT a reward. A reward, by definition, is earned. Is your view really that salvation is earned?? That is not biblical.

otoh, I have never seen a passage state that we if we leave the faith we lose salvation. So why should I believe such a thing?

 

[Nathan]

Of course I have. What Jesus said answers all your questions.


Why would He have to say exactly what and how you demand it?

What He said answers your concern. ALL who receive eternal life will never perish. The belief that some who receive eternal life will perish is simply unbiblical, and goes DIRECTLY against what Jesus said in John 10:28.


Primarily because salvation is NOT a reward. A reward, by definition, is earned. Is your view really that salvation is earned?? That is not biblical.

otoh, I have never seen a passage state that we if we leave the faith we lose salvation. So why should I believe such a thing?

The only way to believe that to reject the faith, and still have salvation, is to believe that you did something to have it.

If salvation comes through faith, then salvation can come no more if someone leaves the faith.

1Ti 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Righteousness comes from faith. If you leave the faith, you leave righteousness.

Rom 3:21-26
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Tell me, is your righteousness is something you did, or is it in the faith you have in Jesus? If you no longer have faith in Jesus, do you still have righteousness?

 

[Gregg T]

We cannot agree on this. If we look at all of the accounts, we find that "no root" in Luke is saying that the root was not very deep - not that it was non-existent. The root was not deep enough to sustain it in the heat, drawing moisture from down below.

We know the 'seed' brought forth life because it 'sprung up', or as your translation puts it 'growing'. A seed does not grow if there is no life. I have planted many seeds in my years of gardening that actually had no life. They never grew a bit. We find from all accounts that the seed did start to grow. The parable is very specific, seed was sown, and life came forth from that seed - even if it was for just a short period of time.

We know that the ones sown on the path never had life. They never believed, and so could not be saved. Jesus contrasted them with the next group on rocky ground who do believe. The ones who believe do not draw back because of the joy and belief - rather, they fall away because of the times of testing.

Luk 8:12-13
The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

Let me ask you this, how long does a person have to believe before they are saved?

Jesus specifically said they believed. Is there ever a time when Jesus said that someone who believes is not saved?

If you can show me a time period a person has to believe, and a time where someone receives the word of God, believes it, and is not saved - then we can move on to another form for understanding your first point.

Before we move on, I think you are conflating two things, speaking about them as they were the same.

The seed is the word of God; and the seed with growth and roots is still the word of God, still distinct from the rock. The roots (still the word of God) never penetrated the rock so as to be united with it, or to recieve something from it. The word of God itself "dried up" (Lk 8:6) while those on the rock "drew back" (Lk 8:13).

Do you agree with this?

 

[Nathan]

Before we move on, I think you are conflating two things, speaking about them as they were the same.

The seed is the word of God; and the seed with growth and roots is still the word of God, still distinct from the rock. The roots (still the word of God) never penetrated the rock so as to be united with it, or to recieve something from it. The word of God itself "dried up" (Lk 8:6) while those on the rock "drew back" (Lk 8:13).

Do you agree with this?

No, still cannot agree. Maybe a different translation will help.

NASB
“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."

I agree the seed is the word of God. However, when the seed is planted it transforms into a plant when it starts to grow. Its still the word of God, but its the word of God, combined with belief, in the person, that makes the 'plant'(faith). The roots went down, just not far enough to establish a firm grasp. "No root" simply means no depth of root, not that there was not one present.

The plant withered away, not the seed. There is a distinct difference between the seed, and the plant.

1Pe 1:22-23
Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

Jesus is very distinct in that the plant 'grew'. That growth is the word of God in an individual, not outside of it. The word of God is never said to 'grow' or produce anything in a person who does not believe it.

1Co 15:36-37
You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.

The seed, the word of God, 'dies' in a persons heart, bringing forth new life. When a seed is planted, it combines with its 'environment' to grow into the plant it is designed for. The seed is simply a 'housing' for the life that is waiting to emerge by uniting with where it is sown.

Rom 7:9-10
I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.

This is the 'longer' way around dissecting the parable, but we have a much shorter one. Jesus, while He was teaching the Disciples what the parable meant, told them directly that the ones who were classified by rocky soil, both received and believed. That should be sufficient enough for us to know that they both received and believed.

Question is then, is there ever said a person can both receive and believe the Gospel - and yet not be saved?

 

[Mike]

If v.27 is a condition for never perishing, then Jesus would have worded v.28 differently

Have you known the mind of the Lord? Have you been His counselor? This is purely speculative to assume what He would have said if He meant to say something.

If this view were correct, Jesus would have included this CONDITION in His promise.

More speculation. You cannot possibly believe you can speak for Him as to what He would have said. There it is. You are reading into His Word, and you are calling it a straight forward fact where everyone else's is opinion.

What I posted is true.

It was not true. It was contradicting your speculation; not the Word of the Lord. Suggesting someone does not believe what Jesus said is pushing the envelope too far. I highly suggest you slow your roll. You are on shaky ground with these statements.

 

[FreeGrace]

Tell me, is your righteousness is something you did, or is it in the faith you have in Jesus?

The Bible says we have the righteousness of Christ through faith.

If you no longer have faith in Jesus, do you still have righteousness?

Yes. Because you are STILL marked in Him with a seal, the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption, as God's possession. Eph 1:13,14

Since we are God's possession, we will never perish.

Union with Christ is permanent, and you've not shown from Scripture otherwise.

So I have no reason at all to accept such an idea.