What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

John MacArthur: Continualists do not exist, everyone is a Cessationist or Inventionist

jeremiah1five said:
The Holy Ghost is the ONE that does the sending. Not apostles, not popes, not anyone except the Holy Ghost:

2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. Acts. 13:2.

And as you can see this took place while they were having church. That's where everybody can see what God is doing in His Church. In the open. No secrets and no backroom deals.
Click to expand...
Yes but thru the authority of the apostles

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
 
jeremiah1five said:
There's going to be a lot of people surprised on the Day of Judgment.
Click to expand...
Lawlessness is disobeying God's Truth the Bible. "In that Day" is the Day of Judgment, and these miracle workers will claim they did Christian like signs and wonders "in Christ's Name," But He will deny He ever knew them. "Depart from Me" is the same thing Christ says to the Goats, the weeds sown among the wheat.


19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
(Matt. 7:19-23 NKJ)

41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand,`Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matt. 25:41 NKJ)
 
Alfred Persson said:
Lawlessness is disobeying God's Truth the Bible. "In that Day" is the Day of Judgment, and these miracle workers will claim they did Christian like signs and wonders "in Christ's Name," But He will deny He ever knew them. "Depart from Me" is the same thing Christ says to the Goats, the weeds sown among the wheat.


19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
(Matt. 7:19-23 NKJ)

41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand,`Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matt. 25:41 NKJ)
Click to expand...
Lawlessness is indeed disobeying God's truth in The Scriptures.
But it's worse for those that do so with their eyes open and still cannot come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
Alfred Persson said:
Its easy to prove MacArthur wrong, point him (and me) to the group whose tongues are actual languages, whose healings replicate exactly what the apostles did, where prophecy is about the future and is never wrong.

That's all Continualists need do, to prove Continualism.

But if you point to "fallible prophecy", tongues that aren't the same as on Pentecost, and healings that are different than those done by the apostles, then his allegations stands:

  • they believe in tongues that aren't languages whereas clearly in the New Testament they were languages.
  • they believe in miracles that aren't necessarily like the miracles Jesus and the apostles did.
  • and they say that they believe in revelation divine revelation but not infallible revelation.
So they have miracles that aren't the same as the New Testament, miracles terms that aren't the same as the New Testament, tongues prophecies that aren't the same as the New Testament prophecies, that's not continuation that is cessation and inventing something else.

... make them admit that they're not really continuationist but rather they're guilty of putting the stamp of divine approval and labeling the work of the Holy Spirit on things that have no biblical parallel."-John MacArthur

His argument is based on fact, not his experiences. His experiences are irrelevant and immaterial to the proof FROM YOU CONTINUALISTS he asks for.

If I claimed to have the same coin the apostles used, and I produce an old out of circulation US quarter and say "see, its money". My claim is not proved. Its irrelevant and immaterial you don't have the same coin in your collection and didn't make any effort to obtain it.

The only way I can prove my claim, is to produce the same coin the apostles used in the 1st century.
Click to expand...
I know of at least one instance (in the Calvary Chapel Movement) in which tongues were manifested and no interpretation was given so the pastor said to do no more tongues; but afterward someone came up to the pastor and said that the tongue was specifically in their native language and pertained specifically to what they were going through in their lives.
 
donadams said:
That Christ and his church are one with inseparable unity? Act 9:4 eph 5:32
Click to expand...
Man hates God.
Since they cannot get to God Christians bear the brunt.
We are hid in Christ.
We are not hid in the Pope.
Sowwy.
It must burn up the Pope and his compadres that the Church was founded in Jerusalem, but they have to run their church from Rome.
But give it time.
Rome and its popes will go to war with Israel in attempt to run the Church from there.
Overt or covert.
That's a jewel in the popes crown.
 
I think that Paul's epistle to the Romans specifically defeats Roman Catholicism as a doctrine.

No wonder it was written to Rome.
 
jeremiah1five said:
Man hates God.
Since they cannot get to God Christians bear the brunt.
We are hid in Christ.
We are not hid in the Pope.
Sowwy.
It must burn up the Pope and his compadres that the Church was founded in Jerusalem, but they have to run their church from Rome.
But give it time.
Rome and its popes will go to war with Israel in attempt to run the Church from there.
Overt or covert.
That's a jewel in the popes crown.
Click to expand...
Is Christ the king?
 
jeremiah1five said:
Of course. He's married to His Church of true born again from above believers.
In salvation the only mediator is Christ.
Not popes and not priests.
Click to expand...
Really? Please explain

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21 acts 1:8
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

Christ light of the world
Apostles light of the world Matt 5:14
Christ is truth Jn 14:6
The church the pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15
Thanks
Thanks
 
justbyfaith said:
I know of at least one instance (in the Calvary Chapel Movement) in which tongues were manifested and no interpretation was given so the pastor said to do no more tongues; but afterward someone came up to the pastor and said that the tongue was specifically in their native language and pertained specifically to what they were going through in their lives.
Click to expand...
A court of law wouldn't permit such "hearsay" be admitted as "proof", neither can I.
 
jeremiah1five said:
I do. My allegiance is to God who saved me.
Click to expand...
And to the kingdom the king established?
And to the lawful ministers the king himself sent and demanded obedience to?
Lk 10;16
Jn 13:20
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

His kingdom is the new covenant church!
Humble faithful Christians obey and submit
 
donadams said:
And to the kingdom the king established?
And to the lawful ministers the king himself sent and demanded obedience to?
Lk 10;16
Jn 13:20
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

His kingdom is the new covenant church!
Humble faithful Christians obey and submit
Click to expand...
Don't exclude Old Testament Church.
Christianity is Completed Judaism.
Fulfillment of all Old Testament prophecies.
 
justbyfaith said:
On the testimony of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.

There is the testimony of the pastor and there is the testimony of the person who heard the tongues in their own language.
Click to expand...
In Mosaic and US law, witnesses are examined before their testimony is allowed. First and foremost to be established, is exactly what was witnessed, and what is hearsay. Speculative opinion based on "glimpses" is not allowed.
 
I don't think that what I have related to you is merely hearsay.

It is sure testimony given by two or three witnesses.

Just as the testimony of the apostles that Jesus is risen from the dead is sure testimony; and yet not believed by some.

You can be certain that the testimony of a pastor is a reliable witness. Such a person believes that all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top