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John MacArthur: Continualists do not exist, everyone is a Cessationist or Inventionist

The three fold new covenant priesthood: and priesthood in scripture is plural.

High priesthood: “Jesus Christ”
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3


Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” (low priests)
Mk 3:14
Jn 15:16
Jn 20:23
acts 1:15-26
acts 14:23
Acts 16:4
Rom 15:16
1 cor 9:14
1 Tim 3:1-2
1 Tim 2:7
1 Tim 4:14
Phil 1:1
James 5:14

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10


Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9

The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10
Heb 10:9
Old Israel:

Ex 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

New Israel:

1 pet 2:5-9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Apostles / bishops were ordained priests by Jesus Christ at the last supper: 1 cor 11:24-26
do this in memory of me. offer this in memory of me, the Passover was a sacrifice. Ex 12:27 1 cor 5:6-8

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Acts 1:22
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 14:23
Acts 16:4
 
Alfred Persson said:
We differ there. I expose the various ways Satan tempts to sin (bodily sensations hot cold electricity; telepathic voice dreams visions, feelings of a "holy presence") to warn:

Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Cor. 2:11 KJV)
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You and I as Christians are protected by the armor of God . Of course the lost are not and satan can attack as you say above . Aren't you protected by the armor of God Alfred Persson ?

Ephesians Chapter 6
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
 
The three fold new covenant priesthood: and priesthood in scripture is plural.

High priesthood: “Jesus Christ”
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3


Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” (low priests)
Mk 3:14
Jn 15:16
Jn 20:23
acts 1:15-26
acts 14:23
Acts 16:4
Rom 15:16
1 cor 9:14
1 Tim 3:1-2
1 Tim 2:7
1 Tim 4:14
Phil 1:1
James 5:14

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10


Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9

The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10
Heb 10:9
Old Israel:

Ex 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

New Israel:

1 pet 2:5-9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Apostles / bishops were ordained priests by Jesus Christ at the last supper: 1 cor 11:24-26
do this in memory of me. offer this in memory of me, the Passover was a sacrifice. Ex 12:27 1 cor 5:6-8

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Acts 1:22
Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.


Alfred Persson said:
Christ is with us, not apostles.
Click to expand...
Writing scripture is only one aspect of the apostles, Christ gave the entire “deposit of faith” to the apostles some of who wrote some scripture, all public revelation ended with the John but the teaching authority continues.
 
You may all twist the words around as much as you like, but objective fact and subjective opinion are two different things. Until something better is created, the scientific method serves its purpose. And really, mathematics are what really matters because if something is wrong, it can be traced back, and equations give only yes or no answers. Either they're right or wrong. God is found within the details of science because nothing so complex could simply spring into being.

I respond to the board because my challenge is for all. Until you can prove to me science is somehow unbiblical, and that there have been objective miracles, I operate under the premise that God is reserving them for the final day.

Now, if you think that somehow condemns me, what left is there to talk about? Christ no more condemned Thomas for doubting than God will condemn me for my fascination with His machinery. All the early scientists were all inspired by God, so to dismiss them as only being specialized in their fields is ridiculous. Their understanding of the physical world is second only to God Himself, and they were far above my own station.

If all of creation doesn't inspire you to seek objective truth, even if it takes examining things to the absolute minutiae, then so be it. I, however, will continue to praise God every time I learn something new about how the universe works and call it a subjective message from God that He exists that I must wait to prove until He is ready to reveal Himself in undeniable ways that leave no doubt or any room for rationalization.
 
donadams said:
Without apostles there is no church!
Eph 2:20
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That's what modern apostles teach:

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (2 Cor. 11:12-15 NKJ)
 
Alfred Persson said:
That's what modern apostles teach:

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (2 Cor. 11:12-15 NKJ)
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You don’t believe the apostles have authority to send apostles?
 
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.
 
donadams said:
You don’t believe the apostles have authority to send apostles?
Click to expand...
Did your eyes see Paul's words, even for a second as you buried them?

Here they are again. Tell me what Paul is saying.

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (2 Cor. 11:12-15 NKJ)
 
Alfred Persson said:
Did your eyes see Paul's words, even for a second as you buried them?

Here they are again. Tell me what Paul is saying.

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (2 Cor. 11:12-15 NKJ)
Click to expand...
Does that prove that there are not real apostles? Timothy you a Paul’s successor, Mathias is Judas’s successor
 
Do you reject the fact that the apostles have the same power authority and mission as Christ?
 
Just_Michael said:
You may all twist the words around as much as you like, but objective fact and subjective opinion are two different things. Until something better is created, the scientific method serves its purpose.
Click to expand...
You didn't identify who you are replying to, I assume its me. The "scientific method" cannot prove Christ existed, or did miracles. Or any historical event. To prove things in history or philosophy, you need legal historical proof.

We can't repeatedly slay Christ, and watch Him rise, in a lab. That's what a scientist needs to believe in His resurrection.

I don't twist. I am factual, logical, and support my scripture claims with scripture references. If you disagree with a conclusion, rather than smear me as a "twister", prove me wrong by the Scripture. Or logic. Or History. But until you can fit me in a lab vial and turn on the Bunson burner, "scientific method" isn't available to you.
 
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donadams said:
Do you reject the fact that the apostles have the same power authority and mission as Christ?
Click to expand...
You have to tell me what Paul said to continue.

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (2 Cor. 11:12-15 NKJ)
 
Iconoclast said:
Hello DD,
I believe Jesus Christ As Lord.
I believe scripture.
The Apostles were unique. Have you studied about them?
Click to expand...
I like your user name "Iconoclast". Public privy's should always contain at least 80% icon particulate.

Armageddon and what Jehu did to the prophets of Baal have some parallels, both gather the wicked into one place to utterly reign down God's wrath upon them.

18 Then Jehu gathered all the people together, and said to them, "Ahab served Baal a little, Jehu will serve him much.
19 "Now therefore, call to me all the prophets of Baal, all his servants, and all his priests. Let no one be missing, for I have a great sacrifice for Baal. Whoever is missing shall not live." But Jehu acted deceptively, with the intent of destroying the worshipers of Baal.
20 And Jehu said, "Proclaim a solemn assembly for Baal." So they proclaimed it.
21 Then Jehu sent throughout all Israel; and all the worshipers of Baal came, so that there was not a man left who did not come. So they came into the temple of Baal, and the temple of Baal was full from one end to the other.
22 And he said to the one in charge of the wardrobe, "Bring out vestments for all the worshipers of Baal." So he brought out vestments for them.
23 Then Jehu and Jehonadab the son of Rechab went into the temple of Baal, and said to the worshipers of Baal, "Search and see that no servants of the LORD are here with you, but only the worshipers of Baal."
24 So they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt offerings. Now Jehu had appointed for himself eighty men on the outside, and had said, "If any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escapes, whoever lets him escape, it shall be his life for the life of the other."
25 Now it happened, as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, "Go in and kill them; let no one come out!" And they killed them with the edge of the sword; then the guards and the officers threw them out, and went into the inner room of the temple of Baal.
26 And they brought the sacred pillars out of the temple of Baal and burned them.
27 Then they broke down the sacred pillar of Baal, and tore down the temple of Baal and made it a refuse dump to this day.
28 Thus Jehu destroyed Baal from Israel. (2 Ki. 10:18-28 NKJ)

16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. (Rev. 16:16 NKJ)

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,
18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. (Rev. 19:11-21 NKJ)

Amen! Come LORD Jesus!
 
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Hidden In Him said:
No, Lol.

MacArthur doesn't have any Charismatic experience, so like all Cessationists he is basing his conclusions on a whole list of assumptions.

The main problem is that he excuses himself from having to manifest supernatural gifts himself by reinventing New Testament teaching into something foreign to it; a modernized version of "Christianity" that bears even less in common with the original.

If he were actually spending some time pursuing God for the gifts as Paul commanded, he wouldn't be nearly so critical and judgmental of others for not measuring up to the apostles at this time in church history.

I don't really have the time you seem to, so I don't know if I will do anything other than pin the tail on the donkey here. But he needs to be careful about using the word "inventionists." He will be held accountable to God for the "sins" of others which he himself was far more guilty of.
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So if He gets taught how to speak in ecstatic Glossa would that make a difference. WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE THAT HAVE DONE IT BUT STOPPED?
JUST PLAYING THE ADVOCATE
 
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