Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[smaller]

That's because, it's all you see in every single person, based on your unbiblical theory, that Satan is in everyone.

I accept the internal reality of Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, Romans 7:17-21, Romans 11:8, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, 1 John 3:8 ALL of which demand TWO parties be factored into the picture of scriptural reality for MAN, JUST AS is shown with Peter in Matt. 16:23 or Judas in Luke 22:3, John 13:12 and John 13:27 plus the aforementioned and dozens if not hundreds of similar citings in the N.T.

Your positions on the other hand are repeatedly and consistently VOID of this scriptural reality of TWO parties, even when it's written and shown openly as plain as the nose on our faces, such as when you see only Peter where Satan is deployed in the same sentence in Matt. 16:23.

It's totally fair game to ask your positions, what about SATAN? Is Peter Satan? I've asked you this question at least 3 times in this thread already and you've failed to address it every time.

I asked you to post the scripture whereby Satan entered Peter.

Did many times already. See the above. You ask for a scripture showing Satan entered Peter and Matt. 16:23 shows Satan speaking from Peter's own lips and you ask for PROOF?

It is your position that needs to answer the obvious void in sight.

 

[smaller]

False! The scripture does not say Satan was addressed in Peter.

You and I can both read Matt. 16:23 and see SATAN written just as plain as day.

22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:22-23

• Peter was being mindful of the things of men, and opposing God, because he didn't want Jesus killed.

• Satan, on the other hand, did in fact want Jesus killed.

This scripture reveals to us the influence of Satan on the chief priest's and elders, in which they wanted Jesus killed, and Satan working in concert with these ungodly leaders, entered into Judas to betray Jesus, for that purpose.

And what about SATAN and PETER in the same sentence? How are you going to eliminate SATAN from Matt. 16:23? Dancing over to the Pharisee's isn't helping your claims here one bit.

It was Satan's influence on Judas, to betray the Jesus, to be killed.

That would pretty much have to be the case, seeing how Satan ENTERED Judas.

Peter did not want Jesus to be killed, which was in opposition to God's plan.

And we should what then? Completely IGNORE that Satan is right there in Matt. 16:23? Your methodology seems to be a bit shallow on this count for some odd reason.

 

[MarkT]

Because that is a term to describe a man that is in opposition to God's cause or will, or plan.

What Peter was saying, was in opposition to God's will for Jesus and all of mankind.

22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:22-23

Peter was being mindful of the things of men, and opposing God.


Satan, on the other hand, did in fact want Jesus killed.



JLB

I don't think this is about wanting Jesus killed or preventing his death or tempting Jesus. I believe Satan caused Peter to fall into disbelief is a more likely explanation for why Jesus said 'Get behind me Satan'. So at this moment, Peter doesn't understand and he doesn't believe. So at this moment the Shepherd's motives are clear - he wants to protect his sheep. So Jesus tells Satan to 'get behind me' You are a hinderance to me'. Satan is hindering the kingdom. The Shepherd is protecting his sheep, putting himself between Peter and Satan.

 

[FreeGrace]

Because, as anyone can see if the scripture was written out, Jesus was addressing Peter, and not Satan.

This plain truth is hidden, if the scripture is not posted.
JLB

Only the lazy ones who don't bother to place their cursor over the Scripture reference won't know what the verse says.

 

[Jim Parker]

I believe Satan caused Peter to fall into disbelief is a more likely explanation for why Jesus said 'Get behind me Satan'. So at this moment, Peter doesn't understand and he doesn't believe.

I think the key is that Peter didn't understand at that point in time.

Mat 16:21-23 (NKJV)
From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!” But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Peter was apparently thinking that Jesus, the Christ, would be driving out the Romans and reestablishing the throne of David as a king in Jerusalem over a new "golden age" of Israel. That would fall under the category of "the things of men." Men are concerned with rulers and kingdoms on earth. Jesus' kingdom was "not of this world." (Jhn 18:36) He came to destroy the power of death and when He had risen He said, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Mat 28:18) BUt that rule was not like the rule of men.

Peter had in mind an earthly kingdom; "the things of men" rather than "the things of God.". But, "the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Rom 14:17 NKJV)


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)




DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[KevinK]

^^^Wow, now we're on the same wavelength, Jim. Check out post #88.

 

[atpollard]

Why is this such a problem? By simply placing the mouse over the reference, the entire verse is displayed.

Not on an iPAD. When you press it, it opens a whole new tab that waits to load, so it is either just a number or wait to load a new page. (Just FYI).

 

[JLB]

Only the lazy ones who don't bother to place their cursor over the Scripture reference won't know what the verse says.

Why would you call it lazy to write out the scripture for all to examine?

EDITED


Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.

4 The ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Psalm 1:1-6



JLB

 

[JLB]

I don't think this is about wanting Jesus killed or preventing his death or tempting Jesus.

21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:21-23

“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”


No, it just Peter not wanting Jesus to be handed over to the elders and chief priest's and be killed.

Satan wanted Jesus dead.

Peter did not want Jesus dead.

Therefore, it was Peter who Jesus was addressing, because it was Peter who was speaking, not Satan.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I accept the internal reality of Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, Romans 7:17-21, Romans 11:8, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, 1 John 3:8

And not one of those scriptures says Satan entered Peter.


So why post your opinion, and tag it with a bunch of scripture references that have nothing to do with the subject matter?



JLB

 

[atpollard]

Therefore, it was Peter who Jesus was addressing, because it was Peter who was speaking, not Satan.

While I agree, shouldn't you make some sort of an effort to explain the word "Satan" in the verse?

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

 

[JLB]

While I agree, shouldn't you make some sort of an effort to explain the word "Satan" in the verse?

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

I have about 4 or 5 times.

Please go back and read what I have written.

 

[FreeGrace]

Not on an iPAD. When you press it, it opens a whole new tab that waits to load, so it is either just a number or wait to load a new page. (Just FYI).

Interesting factoid. It's easy to assume everyone posts on a computer. Using an iPad would drive me crazy. Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Only the lazy ones who don't bother to place their cursor over the Scripture reference won't know what the verse says."

Why would you call it lazy to write out the scripture for all to examine?

My point was missed. It's lazy to NOT place their cursor over the Scripture reference to see the actual verse.

So quoting out the verse isn't really necessary, since this website provides that feature whereby Scripture references will "pop up" when the cursor is placed over it.

 

[JLB]

So quoting out the verse isn't really necessary, since this website provides that feature whereby Scripture references will "pop up" when the cursor is placed over it.

When you state your opinion, and tag it with a scripture reference, without writing out the scripture, and the actual scripture states the very opposite of what your opinion is, then it's a big problem.

... as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
2 Peter 3:16-17


Please post the scripture, showing us where Jesus Christ, ever promoted an unbeliever to Apostle, after that person was a disciple for 3 1/2 years, and empowered them to preach the Gospel to the lost, and heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils.




JLB

 

[JLB]

You and I can both read Matt. 16:23 and see SATAN written just as plain as day.


And what about SATAN and PETER in the same sentence? How are you going to eliminate SATAN from Matt. 16:23? Dancing over to the Pharisee's isn't helping your claims here one bit.


That would pretty much have to be the case, seeing how Satan ENTERED Judas.


And we should what then? Completely IGNORE that Satan is right there in Matt. 16:23? Your methodology seems to be a bit shallow on this count for some odd reason.

Please post the scripture where it shows us that Satan entered Peter.



JLB

 

[JLB]

2 You didn't bold it, but the fact is Saul was a chosen instrument (while unbelieving). Yep chosen to carry Jesus Christ's name.

Acts 9:15 (LEB) But the Lord said to him, “Go, because this man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel.​

This OP claim you made ("Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while", not about Saul being an unbeliever, yet chosen insrutment of the Gospel) is yours to defend:

Do you have enough confidence in your claim about Judas to answer the following relevant question:

Is it your opinion that Jesus ever loved Judas Iscariot?

There is nothing in this scripture, about Jesus empowering Saul as an unbeliever, to preach the Gospel to the lost.


Saul was shown what to do to be saved, first.

6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”

Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

7 And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. 8 Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Ananias Baptizes Saul -
10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”

And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.” 13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.

19 So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.

20 Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
Acts 9:6-20


Paul preached after he believed and was baptized.






JLB

 

[JLB]

Here is another example of a servant of Jesus Christ who was promoted, then ended up being sentenced to hell with the hypocrites.

45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

The parable teaches us an example of a servant who is promoted to being ruler over the household, to distribute the provision to the household when needed.

If the servant is faithful to discharge his responsibility, as has been assigned, then when the master returns he will be rewarded.

If the servant begins to take advantage of his authority and abuse it, and begins to associate with the ungodly, and live an immoral life, and neglect those who he has been given authority to serve, then when the master returns, he will be appointed his portion with the hypocrites, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This is a reference to hell: the furnace of fire.


So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 13:49-50



JLB

 

[smaller]

And not one of those scriptures says Satan entered Peter.

I'd suggest when Jesus addresses Satan to Peter's face it's a foregone conclusion. Same observation applies to Judas.

John 13:
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

So why post your opinion, and tag it with a bunch of scripture references that have nothing to do with the subject matter?

That's your opinion. Obviously Satan is there to observe and factor into these accounts. The real question is why positions don't. I might chalk that up to the same working today.

 

[chessman]

Paul preached after he believed and was baptized.

Yes. But Saul was a chosen instrument of the Lord prior to his baptism. See verse 15 where Jesus, not me, says so. Yet you laughed at the fact.

Saul was chosen for the very purpose to preach the Gospel prior to his believing and baptism. Jesus said so to Ananias:

15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.

Saul was NOT a believer nor baptized with the Holy Spirit yet he was chosen to preach the Gospel.

It seemed to surprise Ananias too, that Saul was chosen. Though I don't think he laughed at the Lord's words.

Jesus didn't say he will become a preacher after believing and being baptized with the Holy Spirit. He told Ananias that Saul "is a chosen vessel of Mine" as Saul was very much an unbeliever and unbaptized at the time Jesus told Ananias Saul is a chosen vessel of Mine.

John 15:9 (NKJV) “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. "​

Do you think Jesus loved Judas as the Father loved Jesus?