Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[MarkT]

Jesus actually demanded His disciples NOT to tell any man He was the Jesus the Christ:

Matthew 16:20
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Jesus rebuked devils in similar fashions:

Luke 4:41
And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Jesus cast out demons, not devils Luke 4:41 RSV For example Mark tells us about the demoniac who had been possessed with demons/unclean spirits. Mark 5:5-18

5 They came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Ger′asenes.2 And when he had come out of the boat, there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 who lived among the tombs; and no one could bind him any more, even with a chain; 4 for he had often been bound with fetters and chains, but the chains he wrenched apart, and the fetters he broke in pieces; and no one had the strength to subdue him. 5 Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out, and bruising himself with stones. 6 And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped him; 7 and crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.” 8 For he had said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!” 9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion; for we are many.” 10 And he begged him eagerly not to send them out of the country. 11 Now a great herd of swine was feeding there on the hillside; 12 and they begged him, “Send us to the swine, let us enter them.” 13 So he gave them leave. And the unclean spirits came out, and entered the swine; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea, and were drowned in the sea.

14 The herdsmen fled, and told it in the city and in the country. And people came to see what it was that had happened. 15 And they came to Jesus, and saw the demoniac sitting there, clothed and in his right mind, the man who had had the legion; and they were afraid. 16 And those who had seen it told what had happened to the demoniac and to the swine. 17 And they began to beg Jesus to depart from their neighborhood. 18 And as he was getting into the boat, the man who had been possessed with demons begged him that he might be with him. RSV

On the other hand, Judas was a son, not a spirit, and Satan's offspring are called devils and the sons of the evil one. Jesus also called them weeds. "the weeds are the sons of the evil one". Mt. 13:38-39 RSV

 

[smaller]

Jesus cast out demons, not devils Luke 4:41 RSV For example Mark tells us about the demoniac who had been possessed with demons/unclean spirits. Mark 5:5-18

Is there really a point to that kind of distinction? Perhaps we are better served debating "and the Son" for a few centuries?

On the other hand, Judas was a son, not a spirit, and Satan's offspring are called devils, and the sons of the evil one. Jesus also called them weeds. "the weeds are the sons of the evil one". Mt. 13:38-39 RSV

Judas was factually informed by Jesus that his Father was God. Matt. 10:20, Deut. 14:1, Psalm 82:6, Matt. 23:9. And it is likely none of the people of Israel were much informed of the matter of fact. Romans 11:8, Romans 11:32

Obviously it's debatable whether he actually understood that fact, but understanding or not didn't change the fact.

I openly reject your sight of human devils as over the top and definitely NOT a scriptural presentation. Jesus didn't come to save devils and convert them into children of God, NOR does such a presentation exist in the scriptures. He did however come to save "all mankind" from them.

It's easy to blur the lines and not understand the difference between a human and a devil, particularly when we are in "subjection" to thoughts that may not be our own, FROM THEM. Mark 4:15, Eph. 2:2. All of us DO come into "contention" with the evil present with(in) us, the sin indwelling our flesh. Romans 7:7-21. And yes, these are demonic workings. Sin is after all, "of the devil." 1 John 3:8.

When anyone sees this fact, they might not be so apt to be easy pawns. In any case of sights we are WELL advised that the Spirit IS against and contrary to our own FLESH, because of these adverse workings therein. Gal. 5:17, 2 Cor. 12:7

Believers should be led to understand this basic difference. But of course that's not all that's going on. God is also quite engaged with adverse judgments in/to the unseen realm/occupants.

It's pretty easy to "pot shot" the sins of Judas. It's far more difficult to reconnoiter our own.

 

[chessman]

Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.” So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”

Oh, I thought you meant his first question in verse 5, prior to voice announcing it was Jesus. I see your point now.

But Saul didn't say it was the resurrected Christ at this point.

Paul, in his retelling of the account in Acts 22, which I think provides additional important clarification details:

Acts 22:8-11, 14-16 (NKJV) So I answered, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.’ “And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. So I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.’
​

The reason, it seems, Paul said "What shall I do, Lord" was because (So I said ...) the others had not heard what was said ("I am Jesus"). I get a picture of, well "astonishment" as 9:6 says in Paul's reply to the voice. He saw a bright light and heard a voice that the others did not hear. He was 'dazed and confused', so to speak. Yes, the voice said, "I am Jesus" but his reaction was fear and astonishment. Frankly, I don't see how his response makes him a believer in the risen Lord Jesus. And he was a believer in the Lord (the Father) all along. So his response is reasonable, either way. That's why he was persecuting Christians. Saul was never an Atheist. It seems more like he's a scared and astonished Pharisees who's wondering if he's hearing voices, hearing God the Father or just in a general state of confusion to me. I know I would be, given his situation. But either way, he'd not been filled with the Holy Spirit yet nor baptized. That happens in Damascus, not on the road. That's were he received confirmation and became assured of what he heard spoken. When Ananias confirmed it.

And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus.
​

Notice Saul doesn't say that I could not see for the glory of Jesus. He still just calls it "that light". So in Damascus, he get's the details and puts it all together:

Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.
For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’​

Paul is witnessed to in detail while in Damascus (not on the way) what he had seen and heard and witnessed there on the road by another 'witness' sent by God. He had his three witnesses to confirm it. The others traveling with him, could not be a witness to what was said as they didn't hear what was said. And what's more direct, is that only in Damascus is where his sins were washed away (not on the road).

But then, after Jesus told him who He was, Saul still called Him Lord.

Yes before and after the voice said that it was Jesus Saul suspected the voice was the voice of the Lord (not necessarily Lord Jesus. Paul said he was astonished and replied to the voice once again as "Lord", not Lord Jesus (a Creedal claim). But Saul had prayed to the Lord his whole life. Plus he needed another witness per the Law. Again, especially since he said he was astonished at what was said on the road.

Did he believe Jesus was Lord before receiving his sight back and receiving the Godly additional witness from Ananias and the washing of his sins and being baptized with the Holy Spirit in Damascus??? It's possible, I suppose, but he had no other witness of the message until Ananias confirmed it to him.

I think the Damascus conversion makes more sense.

 

[WIP]

Thank you for the explanation. Something for me to pray about.

 

[JLB]

Pretty sure you said Peter was a metaphor of Satan in Matt. 16:23

searching...

YEP!

JLB said:
Peter is opposing God's will for Jesus, and "acting" in opposition, which is one of the definitions of the word Satan.

When Peter said, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!” , he was acting in opposition to God's will for Jesus.

Peter wasn't literally the fallen angel, Satan, but acting in opposition to God's will for Jesus Christ.


Hopefully this will clear up any misunderstandings you have about what was said.

JLB said:
It [SATAN] is a metaphorical reference to a person who is opposing the cause of God.

Did you add [SATAN] to what I said in my post?

Please quote the post number you are referring to ?


JLB

 

[MarkT]

Is there really a point to that kind of distinction? Perhaps we are better served debating "and the Son" for a few centuries?

Who is rejecting my words? Satan or you?

 

[smaller]

When Peter said, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!” , he was acting in opposition to God's will for Jesus.

Peter wasn't literally the fallen angel, Satan, but acting in opposition to God's will for Jesus Christ.

Christianity is (obviously a LOT of things) an assessment of the belief that God Intervenes in this world, and that there is also an unseen resistance party in the heart of mankind. This is a very unique presentation, obviously.

Trying to understand the scriptures without those two MAJOR factors is rather pointless. And both of those workings are essentially "unseen." Just as it was when scriptures show us the Spirit without measure (John 3:34) was in Him, Jesus. People couldn't "see it." Just as they can't today just as they can't see the unseen internal influences of Satan and devils in the thought arena of mankind.

Bottom line is this. Trying to see only Peter or only Judas is NOT a presentation of the scriptures. Satan, an entirely different/separate and distinct entity from both Peter and Judas WAS involved beyond any doubt, as was God Himself, involved.

Hopefully this will clear up any misunderstandings you have about what was said.

Your positional sights and analysis in general remain completely BLANK on the most obvious matters.

Did you add [SATAN] to what I said in my post?

Please quote the post number you are referring to ?

"It" was Satan you were referring to, or trying to.

Bottom line hasn't changed in your general analysis of scripture. Your positions factor nothing for the actual workings of Satan in man as a separate/distinct agent from man, and your accounts factor nothing for the over riding Sovereignty of God, whom Himself Willed for His Bodily Sacrifice.

The real question is, did God Himself Will and Control the events and all the participants?

And the answer to that is unshakably YES. Acts 4:26-28

 

[JLB]

Saul (the persecutor of the followers of Christ) was the chosen instrument, per what the Lord told Ananias.

The Lord told Ananias to go to Damascus and ask for "Saul" (not Paul).

Acts 9:11 (NKJV) So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.
When, exactly, do you think Saul was "saved" and why?

Yes Saul of Tarsus, was his name, when he preached Christ.

He was saved when He submitted himself to obey Jesus Christ, as he called Him Lord.

We know he saved saved in verse 17, as he was called brother by Ananias, and Baptized in the next verse, in which a person who gets baptized, has already confessed Jesus as Lord.

17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. Acts 9:17-18


The baptism may have included baptism in water, however being filled with the Spirit occurred when he received his sight back.


The order seems to be:

Paul converted:
3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Acts 9:3-6

Paul acknowledged as a brother in Christ, and Baptized:
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. Acts 9:17-18


Paul preached Christ:
19 So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.
20 Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
Acts 9:19-20



As I have said from the beginning, Paul was a believer, when he preached Christ.

• Do you believe, that Paul was a believer or an unbeliever in Acts 9:20, when he preached Christ?

JLB

 

[smaller]

Who is rejecting my words? Satan or you?

Trying to get nitpicky over the terms devil as opposed to demon is not profitable. Bible translations deploy the terms interchangeably.

 

[JLB]

Christianity is (obviously a LOT of things) an assessment of the belief that God Intervenes in this world, and that there is also an unseen resistance party in the heart of mankind. This is a very unique presentation, obviously.

Trying to understand the scriptures without those two MAJOR factors is rather pointless. And both of those workings are essentially "unseen." Just as it was when scriptures show us the Spirit without measure (John 3:34) was "in Him." People couldn't "see it." Just as they can't today and just as they can't see the unseen influences of Satan and devils in the thought arena.

Bottom line is this. Trying to see only Peter or only Judas is NOT a presentation of the scriptures. Satan, an entirely different/separate and distinct entity from both Peter and Judas WAS involved beyond any doubt, as was God Himself, involved.

We know that Satan entered Judas, because the scripture tells us he did.

Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. Luke 22:3


However, Satan was not continually in Satan, because the scripture says then, Satan entered Judas...


Satan was somewhere else, then he entered Judas.


So, can you show us where Satan entered Peter, to substantiate your claim that Jesus was speaking to Satan who was in Peter, when He said these words to Peter: “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23

• Satan wanted Jesus to be killed, as he influenced Judas to betray Jesus for this very purpose.

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. 2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. 4 So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. 5 And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6 So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude. Luke 22:1-5

• Peter did not want Jesus to be killed.

21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
Matthew 16:21-22




JLB

 

[smaller]

We know that Satan entered Judas, because the scripture tells us he did.

Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. Luke 22:3

No question about that. Any logical analysis of Judas will not make them the same parties with the same workings. There is a very real captor/pawn relationship there, and this relationship was Determined by God Himself, to perform His Will in the crucifixion of Jesus.

When we read then, what should we see? Reason dictates we see The Will of God, Working.

However, Satan was not continually in Satan, because the scripture says then, Satan entered Judas...

Satan is a "disobedient spirit." We have no "tangible" way of determination of what that consists of. Your statement doesn't make sense.

Satan was somewhere else, then he entered Judas.

Satan is a disobedient spirit that is in mankind and operates in mankind. Acts 26:18, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2 among many others likewise.

So, can you show us where Satan entered Peter,

When Satan is deployed in a scripture, such as in the Matt. 16:23 verse in particular, that means Satan is there to view and assess. Not just Peter.

The scriptures show how this transpires in Mark 4:15 and the other seed parables. Scriptures likewise show this working to be universal, IN mankind. Romans 11:32.

to substantiate your claim that Jesus was speaking to Satan who was in Peter, when He said these words to Peter: “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23

• Satan wanted Jesus to be killed, as he influenced Judas to betray Jesus for this very purpose.

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. 2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. 4 So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. 5 And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6 So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude. Luke 22:1-5

• Peter did not want Jesus to be killed.

21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
Matthew 16:21-22

JLB

The BIG RED ELEPHANT remains in the room and your position is trying very hard to ignore it as Satan, and instead make it Peter.

I see no point in such exercises when Satan is staring us both in the eyes in that scripture.

 

[JLB]

Judas Iscariot believed in God and belonged to God, and that God the Father sent Jesus Christ His Son, who came forth from the Father.

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. John 17:6-8


Judas became lost, as a sheep becomes lost, and ended up betraying Jesus Christ.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12


Like the parable of the lost sheep, and the prodigal son, Judas was one of His sheep, as he was given to Jesus Christ, from the father like the others, and who believed Jesus was sent from the Father, like the others, but became lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

The sheep who became lost, has become a sinner again in need of repentance.

Judas did not repent, and turn back to Jesus, but rather attempted to bear the guilt himself, and ended up lost.

and again

The Prodigal Son

31 “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. 32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:31-32


The prodigal son did repent and return, and was restored back to the father.




JLB

 

[JLB]

No question about that. Any logical analysis of Judas will not make them the same parties with the same workings. There is a very real captor/pawn relationship there, and this relationship was Determined by God Himself, to perform His Will in the crucifixion of Jesus.

When we read then, what should we see? Reason dictates we see The Will of God, Working.

No idea what your talking about.


Please use scripture, and refer to the actual language of the scripture, pertaining to this subject.


So, can you show us where Satan entered Peter, to substantiate your claim that Jesus was speaking to Satan who was in Peter, when He said these words to Peter: “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23

• Satan wanted Jesus to be killed, as he influenced Judas to betray Jesus for this very purpose.

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. 2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. 4 So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. 5 And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6 So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude.
Luke 22:1-5

• Peter did not want Jesus to be killed.

21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
Matthew 16:21-22





JLB

 

[JLB]

No question about that. Any logical analysis of Judas will not make them the same parties with the same workings. There is a very real captor/pawn relationship there, and this relationship was Determined by God Himself, to perform His Will in the crucifixion of Jesus.

When we read then, what should we see? Reason dictates we see The Will of God, Working.



Satan is a "disobedient spirit." We have no "tangible" way of determination of what that consists of. Your statement doesn't make sense.


Satan is a disobedient spirit that is in mankind and operates in mankind. Acts 26:18, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2 among many others likewise.



When Satan is deployed in a scripture, such as in the Matt. 16:23 verse in particular, that means Satan is there to view and assess. Not just Peter.

The scriptures show how this transpires in Mark 4:15 and the other seed parables. Scriptures likewise show this working to be universal, IN mankind. Romans 11:32.


The BIG RED ELEPHANT remains in the room and your position is trying very hard to ignore it as Satan, and instead make it Peter.

I see no point in such exercises when Satan is staring us both in the eyes in that scripture.

Please show which post this is from where you quoted me, but added words to my quote.

JLB said:
It [SATAN] is a metaphorical reference to a person who is opposing the cause of God.

If you are going to quote me, please stop adding words to my quote, then claiming I said something that I didn't.



JLB

 

[smaller]

No idea what your talking about.

Please use scripture, and refer to the actual language of the scripture, pertaining to this subject.

JLB

It is very hard for us to see that "all" the people (and the unseen arena of Satan/devils) were Divinely Turned against Jesus, to do Gods Own Will.

Acts 4:
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

The reason you don't see this is because you hold to the "freewill" standard, which is eliminated by the above facts. Sometimes people have to let go of pet doctrines that don't work in order to see the facts, rather than try to make pet doctrines over ride the obvious.

 

[smaller]

Please show which post this is from where you quoted me, but added words to my quote.

If you are going to quote me, please stop adding words to my quote, then claiming I said something that I didn't.

IF you spent a fraction of the time looking at your own post as you spend tossing the above repeatedly, you'd see you were referring to Satan. Matt. 16:23.

 

[MarkT]

Trying to get nitpicky over the terms devil as opposed to demon is not profitable. Bible translations deploy the terms interchangeably.

Get nitpicky smaller. Get yourself an RSV. Demons are spirits and spirits can be cast out, but you can't cast out a person’s identity. Jesus knew who Judas was and what he was - a devil.

 

[smaller]

Get nitpicky smaller. Get yourself an RSV. Demons are spirits and spirits can be cast out, but you can't cast out a person’s identity. Jesus knew who he was and what he was - a devil.

As stated prior, scriptures do not present any human as a devil or as Satan. That is a simple error on your part, and a sad error on the part of many in this thread.

I've cited to you already, the sight of the scriptures, "as it is written" for the people of Israel. They were all "children of God." Deut. 14:1, Psalm 82:6 and they ALL have One Father, who is in heaven. Matt. 23:9. All of these scriptures applied to 'all the people' of Israel inclusive of JUDAS. Matt. 10:20 makes this specifically clear for JUDAS.

God did not have 'devil children.' Thinking people are devils is bad mojo sight. There is no way possible to be obedient to these scriptures with that kind of sight:

John 5:23, John 13:35, Acts 17:30, Romans 12:17-18, 1 Cor. 9:22, 2 Cor. 9:13, Romans 13:8-10, Gal. 6:10, Eph. 3:9, 1 Thes. 3:12, 1 Tim. 2:1, James 1:5

Among many more, likewise.

I'd consider believers who engage that fallacy of humans being devils use it as a copout for their own ineffective witnessing of Jesus. I might even suspect the "source" of those kinds of thoughts myself, as not being of the person, but of adverse spiritual claim, trying to immobilize the call of the Gospel to "all" mankind. "Oh, they can't hear because they're devils."

There are some very DIRE ills promoted upon people who think that by other religions. I think you know who calls the U.S. and Israel "the great Satan." Are we going to fall in the same pit? Or start burning witches? I'd certainly hope not.

 

[chessman]

Something for me to pray about.

Sure. Me too. And thank you for clarifying your point for me. I was mistsken and thought you were referring to Saul's first question.

I think Paul's testimony of his own conversion to Christianity before King Agrippa really supports my point (conversion within the city when given sight back, witnessed to by Ananias and the Holy Spirit and being washed of his sins there) versus the view of conversion/salvation on the road to the city while blinded, fearful and astonished and having no other witness besides himself to the voice and light. In several ways and here's why;

Acts 26:1, 9-18 (NKJV) Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You are permitted to speak for yourself.” So Paul stretched out his hand and answered for himself: “Indeed, I myself thought I must do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. This I also did in Jerusalem, and many of the saints I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. And I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities. “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,​

Saul was a persecutor of Christians "even to" the city of Damascus per his own testimony. He did not say while most of the way to Damascus I was thus occupied. Or thus occupied till I reached a place where the Lord spoke to me on the road outside of Damascus. He knew exactly where he was converted to Christianity and saved (even the street address. And testified that he was occupied as a persecutor of Christianity even to that city (Damascus). If his conversion occured prior to reaching Damascus then it's contrary to Paul's testimony here. His conversion and regaining sight was a miracle that he remembered distinctly occuring in the city, not prior to it. And here's how it happened O king:

at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. ​

Obviously still a persecutor per Jesus' own statement. Yes, after hearing Jesus' voice, Saul was still a persecutor.

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you."​

Yes, Jesus was in the process of making Saul (a chosen unbeliever and persecutor) into a minister. He still needed to be made into a minister (in the future) AND a witness to things he had just seen (Jesus, the light) and heard (Jesus, the voice). Yes, even after hearing and seeing Jesus he needed somethings; A witness to the event that just happened (Ananias) AND a witness to new revelation (the Holy Spirit). Sorry, but he still needed the Holy Spirit to be converted.

I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, ​

Yes, Jesus chose an unconverted, unbeliever, indeed persecutor of Christians to be a minister of His Gospel.

to open their eyes,​

Saul's eyes were NOT opened until the first witness (Ananias) arrived in the city. Saul's heart was not opened until the other witness (the Holy Spirit) arrived in the city.

in order to turn them from darkness to light,​

As I've pointed out previously, it takes the witness of the Holy Spirit in order to open the dark hearts of unbelievers. Yes, even Saul's.

and from the power of Satan to God, ​

Yes the power of God (the Holy Spirit) is necessary. Yet did not arrive on the road but rather, in the city.

that they may receive forgiveness of sins ​

Sauls sins were NOT cleansed outside the city but inside.

and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
​

And yes, Saul received his inheritance inside the city of Damascus (not at his death).

 

[MarkT]

As stated prior, scriptures do not present any human as a devil or as Satan. That is a simple error on your part, and a sad error on the part of many in this thread.

Judas was a devil. Jesus said, 'One of you is a devil'. Don't see how you can say he was not. I believe Judas was human. Don't you?

The Israelites were men. The prophets were men. The Pharisees were men. John called them serpents and vipers. The Jews who wanted to stone Jesus were men, descendants of Abraham, and yet Jesus said, 'You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires'. John 8:44

If the devil is your father, then you are his son. Judas was called the son of perdition. ie. God was not his father.

I've cited to you already, the sight of the scriptures, "as it is written" for the people of Israel. They were all "children of God." Deut. 14:1, Psalm 82:6 and they ALL have One Father, who is in heaven. Matt. 23:9. All of these scriptures applied to 'all the people' of Israel inclusive of JUDAS. Matt. 10:20 makes this specifically clear for JUDAS.

No it doesn't. Mt. 10:20 doesn't say anything about Judas being a devil or Judas not being a devil. That knowledge isn't revealed until Jesus said, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him. John 6:70-71